Pls help! Kind of bonded, but still territorial!

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This topic has 6sd replies, 2 voices, and was last updated 3 years, 1 month ago by DanaNM.

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- 10/14/2021 at 10:55 AM
  fluffybunzy
  Participant
  6 posts
  Hello! I have been trying to bond my buns for months (stressful!) and recently moved to a new apartment where everything is neutral and I’m trying again.
  
  My bunnies have been living in c&c grids side-by-side for a month. They never bit each other through the bars, and Maisie would often nap close to the bars. I started short bonding sessions two weeks ago and slowly extended the time they have together. They’ve been living together 24/7 (under supervision and a baby monitor) for the past two nights. They eat together, and will sometimes cuddle. There haven’t been any fights/circling that I’ve had to break up, although Milo sometimes will shortly chase Maisie. Only one instance of fur pulling on the first night.
  
  They’ve mutually groomed each other, nap together in the afternoons, and eat together, but I’m concerned/can’t declare them bonded because Milo is VERY territorial over food. If I bring out pellets or treats, he often chases Maisie away, but once he’s eating, he doesn’t mind sharing. If Maisie spends too long on the pee pads eating hay, or if she’s sitting at a random spot he wants to sit, he will often run towards her and chase her or nudge her hard so she moves.
  
  Maisie will hop away and usually just sploots somewhere else (or pouts a bit but I can’t tell lol) so she seems fine?? But she’s also skittish in general so sometimes I can’t tell if he’s trying to nudge her, or if she’s just naturally skittish. I’m also really scared him nudging her away will make her afraid of him long-term, or be too much bullying for her to handle. Sometimes he lets her eat, sometimes they eat together, and sometimes he nudges her away. And sometimes he’ll chase her a bit. She doesn’t fight back and just hops away very startled. Sometimes she’ll sit far away, sometimes she’ll creep back to eat some hay.
  
  They used to circle/be on the verge of fighting when Maisie would get mad at his nudging, but now that she learned to hop away, there have been zero fights I’ve had to separate. Being in a larger space helps too because she can run away. But I’m so scared the short chases will turn into fights someday! How do I help Milo be less territorial over hay and random places he wants to sit? Do chasing, hard nudges, and being territorial over hay fade over time?
  
  I’ve just been laying hay on pee pads in the living room which is A MESS lol. I tried bringing out large, neutral litter boxes a few nights ago, but that resulted in Milo pulling Maisie’s fur so I separated them for a while before re-bonding for the last two nights. It’s a lot better with hay and pee pads, but I can’t live long-term with so much hay and pee on the floor lmfao. I heard bonded bunnies can climb all over each other and share litter boxes but so far mine can only share pee pads until Milo decides he wants to eat where Maisie is!
  
  They nap together all afternoon, but not much in the evenings, though they’ll sploot near each other. They’re super cute cuddled together right now! When they’re both active and Maisie was doing zoomies this morning, Milo chased her a bit, but no fights I’ve had to break up for the past two nights. I usually let him chase her for a few seconds and he’ll stop by himself, but once in a while if it goes on too long I’ll make a noise so he stops. Not sure if chasing has decreased the past two days, but they’re snuggling a bit more.
  
  TLDR I’m confused and stressed because they mutually groom, sometimes nap together, and sometimes eat together. But Milo still chases/nudges her/is territorial. Did anyone have this experience too and how do you fix it? And when can I bring out litter boxes again?
  
  Additionally, I have friends visiting me in one week’s time who will be sleeping on the couch, so I’m really hoping they can share a litter box by then, or they’ll probably have to go back to living side-by-side for a few days because it’s just hay all over the living room right now!
  
  Doesn’t matter much but this is my previous post: https://binkybunny.com/forums/topic/mixed-signals-mutual-grooming-and-aggression/
  
  Any advice is appreciated! Thanks for reading!
- 10/14/2021 at 11:04 AM
  DanaNM
  Moderator
  9054 posts
  Ok, so I think they are ALMOST there. You said you’ve been marathoning for the last 2 nights?
  
  Food aggression can be an issue even in bonded pairs, but I’m more concerned about the aggression over the litter box and “spots” that Milo wants to be in.
  
  I have a suspicion that things will get better with more time, but a few things might help a bit.
  
  How big is the space they are in?
  
  Does it help if you add two litter boxes side by side? No all bunnies like to share a litter box, but you don’t want a situation where one rabbit is the bully and is always kicking the other rabbit out.
  
  Have you done any stressing with them at all? I don’t like to do a ton of stressing, but I’ve found that a car ride together can really help get past certain hiccups.
  
  Regarding the food aggression, I have been dealing with this in my own pair, Cooper and Bonnie. They are bonded, but Cooper will start chasing her anytime he thinks food is coming. I have been trying to be very aware of waiting to feed them until they calm down to make sure I’m not unintentionally rewarding the behavior (such as feeding them quickly to stop the chasing).
  
  Overall my sense is they may just need another night or two… try experimenting with the space a bit as well (larger or smaller) if you can.
  
  . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
- 10/14/2021 at 12:26 PM
  fluffybunzy
  Participant
  6 posts
  Hi Dana, thanks so much for your reply!!
  
  The space they’re in is 12 foot by ~6-7 foot. There’s a couch there that can’t be moved which they cuddled on together, but Milo also chased Maisie away a few times off of it. They also marked the couch a bit, so it’s blanketed.
  
  My main concern is also about Milo being territorial over the hay + “spots.” He was found abandoned at a park so maybe he has some food insecurity issues? He’ll let her eat once he’s eating, but if she’s sitting somewhere he wants to be, he’ll nudge her away. If it’s a light nudge, she’ll hop a little away but keep eating. If it’s a hard nudge/short chase, she’ll go to the corner. I don’t know how to make him stop nudging!
  
  I had two litter boxes side by side but he would just jump from one to the other and push her out when he felt like it, which she was unhappy about. I’m ordering two large shoe mats – maybe the lower brim will make him less territorial?
  
  Was there ever a time in bonding your bunnies that you saw litter box aggression cease?
  
  Stress bonding: I’ve put them in a crate and walked around with them before each bonding session, but not since the 24/7! I put banana on their heads in the crate, which they enjoyed. I’ll try a short stressing session tonight when they’re more rowdy!
  
  hahaha that’s a good point about not scattering the pellets too soon! I’ll experiment with that!
  
  they just had a cuddle and mutual groom session for the last two hours so maybe Milo will be less aggressive when he wakes up, but I’m also scared it’s just his personality. I’ll keep the thread updated!
- 10/14/2021 at 12:34 PM
  fluffybunzy
  Participant
  6 posts
  Oops, I forgot to say: yes! Marathoning for the last two nights. This is afternoon number three! Whew.
- 10/14/2021 at 12:48 PM
  fluffybunzy
  Participant
  6 posts
  Milo is the brown one and Maisie is the black and white Dutch! They’re so cute when they’re cuddled and he’s not chasing her lol
- 10/14/2021 at 2:32 PM
  DanaNM
  Moderator
  9054 posts
  They look very cute together!
  
  Do you think the couch could be making them a bit more territorial if they are familiar from your old place?
  
  Perhaps just having two litter boxes in different areas would help. And yes, I think having lower sides on the boxes should help too.
  
  And yes, I’ve noticed litter box tension go down over time, and sometimes it’s a kind of sudden change. The fact that she is always retreating is a good sign, eventually (hopefully) he will realize that she isn’t going to challenge him and he will calm down. The food aggression may not go away, completely, but hopefully it goes away regarding hay. Usually food-aggression happens more with pellets, treats, and salad, since those are less available.
  
  Funny you mention it, Cooper (my food agro one) was also found outside, so I think he may have had some food insecurity issues as well in his history (even though he was in good condition when he was found).
  
  . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
- 10/14/2021 at 2:33 PM
  DanaNM
  Moderator
  9054 posts
  Oh, I was going to say, what would happen if you reduced the pen size a bit, so the area they were in was ALL pee pads and hay. Like not so small that they don’t have room to move, but small enough that he doesn’t try to “claim” the hay pile?
  
  . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
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