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Forum HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Question about molars in 12-year-old bun

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    • Meg
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        Hi everyone!  🙂  I’m writing with a question about molars and senior care.

        Teddy turned 12 back in May and has been acting happy, though over the past few months his eating’s been more variable.  He still eats hay, and is normally VERY enthusiastic about the rolled oats we’ve introduced (~1 Tbsp per day sprinkled on his pellets), but his intake of pellets and greens varies.  Some days he eats nearly all, some days just 1/2 or 2/3, etc.  In general, he eats a higher proportion of his pellets than of his greens (though we do give several cups).  This doesn’t seem correlated with anything we can tell; it seems to just bounce around randomly.  He still acts happy with nice naps, hopping up to the second floor of his bunny castle for treats, and other cute play behavior.

        He just had his annual vet checkup and bloodwork (still waiting for the latter to come back from the lab).  The vet says he’s overall in good shape for his age, but he has lost 0.17 kg (0.4 lbs) since last year, and his teeth don’t look the best.  She didn’t see any obvious dental spurs or anything, but said his teeth looked a bit uneven and he might have trouble grinding food properly with his molars.  She said we *might* consider a molar trim but it would have to be under anesthesia, which I’m very hesitant about at his age.

        What do you think?  This vet office is for exotics, but they really specialize in birds and reptiles, so I’m not sure exactly how familiar they are with senior buns.

        1. Do you think it sounds like a molar issue based on his eating habits, or is that more just an age thing?
        2. Would you suggest going for the molar trim at this point?
        3. What else could we do for him?  She suggested trying 3rd-cut timothy hay which we’ve ordered; anything else we should try?  (He chews apple sticks and balsa chews, but she explained this will only help his front teeth, not his molars unfortunately.)

        Thank you so much!!  🙂  (in case it’s helpful, I wrote around the onset of the eating changes in this thread: https://binkybunny.com/forums/topic/picky-elderbun-now-eating-less-if-hes-eating-hay-and-oats-does-he-need-cc/#post-1949412)


      • DanaNM
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          Ohhh this is a tough one. I would probably want to get a second opinion from a very rabbit savvy vet if possible. I don’t know that I would want to do a dental procedure unless I was very sure it was a problem.

          That said, the weight loss even with the oats is troublesome and having kind of inconsistent eating habits is a symptom of dental pain. Have you tried supplementing with critical care?

          Other things to try are oat hay and orchard grass, sometimes they will really encourage hay eating!

          . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


        • Meg
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            Thank you so much, DanaNM!  I really appreciate it.

            The vet did say that some of the weight loss over the past year could be just muscular atrophy with age (and he has spondylosis; he does seem stiffer these days).  We introduced the oats just a couple of months ago but I don’t know how much of an effect they would be expected to have.

            Unfortunately Teddy hates Critical Care, and definitely won’t eat it voluntarily (even via oral syringe is quite an ordeal).  He does eat meadow hay and oat hay as well as sprinkle of alfalfa as of a couple years ago (to tempt him to eat more).


          • Wick & Fable
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              It may be worth doing an x-ray to get a nice visual of the teeth. X-rays don’t need to be done under anesthesia — a light sedative might be enough in some cases, depending on the rabbit (though I’ve never had a rabbit’s head x-rayed; only other parts of the body). If it is dental, I’d lean more towards the surgery since the current eating habits suggest that it will not be resolved on its own, unless you can really amp up hay eating. I would also recommend orchard grass for the same logic your vet suggested 3rd cut timothy. I’ve actually seen (through anecdotal posts online) that orchard is better for molar grinding than other hays because, although it feels softer, its texture is much sandier/rougher than other hays… or something along those lines. It could also simply be that rabbits eats much more orchard hay/softer hays, relative to stalkier ones. More hay is naturally going to be more grinding.

              The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.


            • Bam
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                I second Wick about dental x-rays. The first vet I took my Vilde to when he fell ill saw nothing wrong with his teeth. The rabbit savvy vet I took him to the next day did a full xray of his teeth, and from them it was beyond any doubt clear that he indeed had a dental problem.

                Fresh grass, if you can get pesticide free grass, has very good teeth-wearing properties, and can be an appetising addition to hay. My Bam wouldnt eat much hay in his olden days, but fresh grass was another matter and kept his teeth in good shape his last year.

                 

                 

                 

                 


              • Meg
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                  Thank you so much, everyone!  I’m still wondering about a couple of things and would love your help!  They are 1) whether this is really a dental problem (I’m not sure his behavior supports that clearly), and 2) how to navigate/balance care for a very shy/nervous elderbun who typically gets stasis from stress every time we bring him to the vet.

                  For #1: It’s true that the past several months his intake of greens and pellets has varied from one day to the next, but he’s always been consistent with hay.  Since he’s a hay snob, the two main kinds he always gets are meadow and oat, with a sprinkling of alfalfa on top added in the past couple years.  He usually favors the oat hay over the meadow hay, even though the oat hay is much thicker; he loves alfalfa (which I know is typical) even though it’s pretty tough.  He’s also much more likely to finish his pellets than to finish his greens (parsley/cilantro and other herbs).  Lately he gets 2-3 large blackberries each day but he doesn’t usually finish them.  He does like to chew on his chew toys a lot.  Also, throughout this time he’s often done the happy bunny tooth grinding back and forth with me when I pet him, usually for a bunch of iterations.  For these reasons, I’m not sure if it’s the case that he’s having molar problems — but what do you think?  Maybe I have some mistaken assumptions in here.

                  For #2: Because Teddy’s a shy/nervous bun who usually gets stasis whenever we put him in the car and bring him to the vet, I’m really reluctant to put him through that again for an X-ray and then a third time (if necessary) for the molar trim.  I’m also *very* nervous about putting him under anesthesia at this age — am I wrong about this?  Before this checkup, he was acting very happy and seemed to have a good life, so I kind of want to see if he can go back to that once the post-vet stress abates.  (Of course, if he seems to have real trouble eating later on, that would be a different ballgame.)  I guess underlying this is the issue of how to navigate a gentle, balanced approach to his care, now that he’s 12.  We adore him and would do anything for him — but for his sake, not our own.  We don’t want to put him through a ton of invasive procedures at this point for the chance at getting a little more time with him — the top priority is for him to be happy and comfortable.  Don’t get me wrong, we adore him and very much want as much time with him as possible.  We just don’t want to put him through the wringer, if you see what I mean.  What is your take on how to strike the right balance here?

                  Thank you so much!! 🙂  Meanwhile I’ll try orchard grass and fresh grass too.  🙂


                • Bam
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                    This really is difficult. It’s reasonable to think that a bun of 12.5 years does not have tip top teeth – but the question is if the “cure” is worse than the “disease”, especially since he really hates vet visits.

                    I think it’s glorious that he still eats as well as he does and shows interest in life and can climb his castle ☺ You could perhaps increase his daily oats a little, to help him keep weight on. Now his tummy is used to them so the risk of tummy upset is low.

                     

                     

                     

                     


                  • Meg
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                      Thank you so much, Bam!  That’s exactly it — if the cure is worse than the disease, just like you say.

                      Thank you so much for your encouraging words — that means a lot.  🙂  Yes, I’ll try giving him a bit more oats (ensuring it doesn’t reduce his eating other foods).  I was giving him subQ fluids yesterday (because he’s still recovering from the vet stress) and his shoulders actually feel less skinny now than before we started oats a few months ago.  So it seems introducing them was a good call and I’m grateful for that being suggested on here (in a prior thread)!  🙂

                      Thank you so much again.


                    • DanaNM
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                        Have you tried giving him critical care “cookies”? Might be one way to get some CC into him. You might even be able to make them up with some oats to encourage him to eat them!

                        You also might try some other brands of recovery food. 2 of my floofle like the Sherwood recovery food and will eat it willingly, when they won’t touch CC.

                        In any case I think you know what’s best for him!

                        . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                      • Meg
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                          Those are both good suggestions, thanks DanaNM!  He didn’t go for regular CC cookies but I haven’t tried making them with oats!  And the Sherwood kind is worth a try too.  They even have a weight gain formula I think.  Thanks for this!!  🙂


                        • DanaNM
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                            Bonnie loves the Sherwood formula mixed up a bit thicker than you would for syringe feeding… and she EXTRA likes it with a bit of banana mixed in! I was so thankful I got her to eat some willingly while we were on our move. Syringe feeding in a McDonalds parking lot was NOT going to be fun!

                            . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                          • Meg
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                              That’s excellent — way to go, Bonnie!  🙂  I’ll definitely give that a try.  🙂 Thank you so much!

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                          Forum HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Question about molars in 12-year-old bun