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FORUM HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Bald spots, bleeding and scabs Help!!

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    • LuluRabbit
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        This is for Theo, my ever-troublesome baby (male, neutered, 11 months old. Attempted to bond with another rabbit but currently separated bc they had a fight 3 months ago). We’ve been having issues for the past 2 months, and he’s been getting worse even through the treatment the vet prescribed so I wanted to know if anyone has experienced anything like this.

        • Around 2 months ago we noticed a bald spot on his chin and around the mouth – dermatitis and flakes. Made a vet appt for 1.5 months ago
        • Vet tested for mites (negative) and fungal culture (negative), did a treatment of revolution and prescribed oral antibiotic in case it was bacterial infection (2 week course). Told us to use a water bottle instead of bowl, and no greens to reduce moisture.
        • Next appt 2 weeks later, the vet saw no improvement (still pieces of fur coming off around the border of the bald spot and flaky) and seeing that they found no mites or fungus, said it might be syphilis. Gave a second round of revolution in case, and prescribed penicillin injections for 5 days and then every other day for two weeks
        • Over those two weeks, we had a LOT of trouble giving him the shot despite having help and following the video instructions. Had to poke him a lot of times, needle clogging sometimes, he would try to jerk around while we tried to give the shots.
        • Recheck – Vet said she saw a bit of improvement on the chin (less dermatitis?) and said to keep giving pen-G for two more weeks
        • One day after that vet appt, we saw two bald spots that either the vet missed or happened overnight. These spots had some dried blood and looked reddish in parts. Contacted the vet with pics, vet tech said it was probably from the failed injections/trauma and said to come in sometime so they can give him the shot and video it
        • A few days later, the spot has grown bigger, the skin is indented in and there is a crusty dark scab. Definitely getting worse, though through this whole ordeal Theo has been eating and drinking and pooping as normal.

        We contacted the ER and they said they don’t have rabbit specialists and probably wouldn’t be able to diagnose or help him, so tomorrow morning we are waking up early to call our vet and ask her to see us ASAP. I’m so confused and worried – I feel like there hasn’t been a conclusive diagnosis, yet we’ve been giving him all these meds and shots and now the problem is even worse than the original problem (the bald chin). I don’t know if the balding spots and scab/redness is from injection trauma – it seems a bit extreme for that! I keep reading things online and there are so many possibilities with the symptoms present – I hope he doesn’t have some sort of infection on his back.


      • LuluRabbit
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          Here are some photos: https://imgur.com/a/j9xOpyx


        • Wick & Fable
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            Firstly, if you’re continuing to give penicillin shots, ask for a larger gauge needle — you should not have to go through clogs, on top of the stress of giving a rabbit a shot. I had a similar scenario where it kept clogging and it was nothing I could do to prevent it because it was a vet assistant’s mistake of giving me too small needles (that I had no idea was a thing; I thought I was just doing something wrong).

            Was there any check of his teeth throughout this time? Fur loss around the mouth, in addition to what has already been checked/treated for, can also be a result of dental concerns. Essentially, a rabbit will start to drool/dribble a bit because their mouth begins producing excessive saliva to lubricate the mouth as it gets uncomfortable. Drooling leads to fur loss, irritation, etc..

            There is a blood test to check for the antibodies which fight the syphilis infection. As with any test, it can come up as a false positive, but if you are unsure whether to proceed with pen-g, you can see if you can have that blood test done. Notably, the test won’t be reliable in telling you if the syphilis is treated, as the antibodies will stick around even if the infection isn’t there anymore.

            Can you post pictures of these new spots you’re mentioning? It sounds like they are on the back, but I don’t think that was explicitly stated in your post. It is definitely possible to have scabs and irritation from shots. If they are wounds from his shots and they are irritated, it’s not the end of the world and they can be treated!

            There is an oral medication called azithromycin which has been shown to treat syphilis in rabbits, so if you are weary/your rabbit is reacting poorly to shots, perhaps you can explore that avenue with your vet instead. My rabbit went through both pen-g shots and oral azithromycin for his syphilis (doing both at once is not standard; we had suspicions based on his past medical history that pen-g would not be enough/effective on his syphilis).

            Also, at this point, does his chin seem to be irritated/scabbing to a degree that’s getting worse? It would not cure the scabs if they are syphilis-related, but silver sulfadizine, if applied conservatively, can help soothe and prevent infections from the scabbing going on. I say applied conservatively because it’s a lotion/cream, so if you get it all over the perimeter fur, it can gunk things up and make it seem more hectic in the area than it actually is.

            The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.


          • DanaNM
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              Has the vet for sure ruled out ringworm?  The balding around the mouth looks a lot like ringworm to me. We also had a bun at the rescue with an upper respiratory infection that lead to baldness around the mouth that looked just like that. When I’ve seen syphillis, it looks more crusty and scabby, but maybe it looked like that before and has healed a bit?

              And scabs around injection sites can happen with long term injections, esp if some of the injections were accidentally in between skin layers instead of under the skin.

              Since there are lots of things it could be, I do think the vet is the best person to try to sort it out. If you aren’t confident in your vet it would be good to get a second opinion. All of the symptoms could be related, or you could be dealing with separate issues (or a main issue, with side effects from trying to treat the main issue), so a fresh set of eyes might help.

              It’s important not to panic though! Sometimes treatment of these types of issues can take a long time with some hiccups in the process.

              . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


            • LBJ10
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                The pictures show a scab on his back. This is definitely from the repeated injections. As for around his mouth… I don’t see any scabs or flakes. Could it be that the injections are working and the scabs fell off? There won’t be any fur where the scabs fell off. It takes a while for the fur to grow back once the skin is healthy again.


              • Wick & Fable
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                  The mouth/chin area does look healthy– the fur will take awhile to grow in, but it looks very promising! It reminds me exactly of what my Wick went through:

                  My rabbit had both ringworm and syphilis, so we did treat for both. At this time ^^^ we were only treating ringworm (did not think of syphilis at the time), so we did ringworm treatment effectively. That being said, if the fur loss is not expanding anymore, that’s a good sign.

                  The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.


                • LuluRabbit
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                    Thanks everyone for the input! I wasn’t clear before, there were no scabs around his mouth. The fur that fell out from his underchin was flaky on the end, but the skin itself wasn’t too flaky. The couple of other bald spots are much smaller and on his back supposedly where the injections went in I think.

                    The vet tested a fungal culture for ringworm, and it came out negative, so for now its ruled out. I was thinking originally it might be ringworm, because the baldness around the mouth/chin didn’t really seem like classic syphilis to me. But our vet is the local exotic vet who does all the treatments for the local rabbit shelter so I tend to trust them – it’s just been confusing and a lot of ups and downs because its unclear if he’s getting better with all these added issues, and they missed two large bald spots somehow at the last recheck!

                    There was a teeth check I think – at least I assume the vet did it in the first exam – and I took a look myself and his teeth seem ok. I’ll ask about the blood test, oral meds, and the larger gauge needle.


                  • Wick & Fable
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                      Notably, my Wick originally had ringworm which we treated but then it kept “coming back”… that’s when we had suspicions that somewhere along the line, we were no longer treating ringworm, but syphilis.

                      The mouth-only-symptoms cases of syphilis are considered atypical. Wick’s vet at the time said they are increasing in prevalence, anecdotally. I imagine ringworm and this atypical form of syphilis can be highly conflated and related. For example, all the nastiness from fighting and having syphilis likely opens the way for ringworm to take root.

                      The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.


                    • LuluRabbit
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                        Hm ok that’s good to know… Maybe Theo also is experiencing something like that. We’ll see what the vet say tomorrow morning! I hope that maybe we can do an oral treatment… these shots are emotionally and physically exhausting :/


                      • Wick & Fable
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                          http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Skin_diseases/Bacterial/Syphilis.htm

                          Medirabbit does a short mention of the atypical cases. They do not mention azithromycin as a treatment, but it was something one of Wick’s past vets went through, and there are studies comparing it to pen g: https://academic.oup.com/jac/article-abstract/25/suppl_A/91/697854 , https://journals.lww.com/stdjournal/fulltext/2002/08000/a_randomized,_comparative_pilot_study_of.10.aspx?casa_token=9xhBrr8gHTMAAAAA:PtkW3t1RwlRF2gGNT_ZwmqNnrwfcYp8I0N4II4t_uLOj3FJMn6Rl6vwW3Ghm4skV2Ud8t5Q0lnfi4SLobftdybs

                          The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.


                        • LuluRabbit
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                            Hi, I just wanted to update on Theo, for posterity as well since I haven’t seen this issue pop up as much on the forum, and it might be useful.

                            So he’s been through 6 weeks of penicillin, and stopped his doses a week ago. Three weeks ago there was crusting/sores around his mouth so the vet definitely thought it was syphilis. Now, after 1.5 months of penG, the fur is growing back and seems to be getting better.

                            Turns out the scabs/wounds on his back were from him nibbling at the injection spots! Even with clean injections, he felt irritated and just pulled out his own fur and chewed at his own skin, so the vet gave him a cone and then we put him in an H style harness for a while since the cone was impeding his caecotroph eating. I know – not ideal but it was the only way we could stop him from chewing his back until he bled. We didn’t know this was even possible…. it was a vet assistant who helped us out with some injections who noticed that his “licking” his back was actually nibbling.

                            As for the injections, we found that the only reliable way to inject him was to take him outside in a carrier, drive him around, and then inject him inside the carrier outside in a parking lot or something. The vet assistant who was very experienced with giving injections said he was the feistiest rabbit she’s seen with injections… and he also doesn’t have as much loose skin as other rabbits I’ve seen, so I guess he’s just difficult to inject. After we found this method, it worked well though.

                            The only thing is, after a week of stopping penG, I discovered a new (?) crust under his mouth. I’m not sure if its something we missed at his last checkup or if its recurring…. at any rate, we have some penG left and will check with the vet. The vet mentioned sometimes rabbits need 8 weeks of treatment (though they let us stop after 6) so maybe he just needs more time… either that or it’s something else. But he’s been getting better with the penG treatment so I hope it just needs a couple weeks more.

                             


                          • Bam
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                              Thank you very much for this report! This is so very helpful for other bun owners.

                              Fingers crossed he just need a couple of weeks more of PenG.

                               

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                          FORUM HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Bald spots, bleeding and scabs Help!!