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FORUM HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Muffin’s Infection

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    • Moonlightbunny66
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        I’m making this post to see if anyone can help, even though it hurts me so much to write this.

        We took him to the vet yesterday morning because he still wasn’t doing well after the Gi Stasis. I explained a lot in my previous post about him. Our vet said there’s something wrong internally with his leg, it wouldn’t extend when they were pulling it out. It was stiff. I got them to syringe feed him since it was time to. They referred us to a bigger vet hospital and we went there after I got them to give him his Cisapride. We were supposed to go there for a ct scan and possible surgery to clean out the abscess, the vet said there was still pus inside.

        We got in the parking lot and I had to call their emergency line because I checked on Muffin and he was laying flat on his side in the carrier. He was breathing really fast and heavy. He then started kicking all his legs up at once, rocking his body. We rushed him over to the door and I told them he was having a seizure. They got him in and called a little while later saying he was in sepsis. They said he has a high fever and low blood sugar, they gave him IVs and I can’t remember if they gave him dextrose then or later. They said he was really dehydrated. They said he was stable and sitting up again. They said the infection spread throughout his body. I think they said that the pus got into his bloodstream and started spreading. They admitted him into the ICU and said they would keep him for a few days. They asked me if he starts to pass if I would like them to do CPR on him and try to revive him, I said yes. I told them to do anything they can. They did a couple swabs and said we would get results in a few days, but might not be accurate because he was already on antibiotics.

        They called later while we were driving home, they said they kept shaving around his leg and the abscess is covering most of the left side of his body, including his belly. They said the skin is dying, it’s black, and there may be a hole there in the future but they’re working on getting the sepsis under control.

        We got another call this morning. They said his fever went down in the middle of the night but came up a bit again this morning. They said he ate hay and lettuce. His white blood count is low because it’s all going to the abscess to fight the infection, and his liver is working extra hard. He’s still getting IVs and dextrose. They said there is fluid in his lungs which could’ve been aspirated and he could have pneumonia. They said pastuerella is a possibility too. They said it doesn’t seem like it could’ve been from another rabbit because it’s so serious. They asked if it could be from one of our cats and I said it’s possible but very unlikely since I supervise them and they don’t come in here often, my door is always closed. They also asked if he has been outside because he could’ve gotten a parasite from that and I said I’ve never taken him outside, but the SPCA may have because they had Pinky outside before. Now I’m thinking that we keep the hay in the garage and it’s possible that there could’ve been insects or something in there, so I just called and told them that.

        Right now he’s on a few different antibiotics trying to help fight off the infection. They said they he will have a surgery consult today, possible ct scan tomorrow and possible surgery tomorrow.

        I also asked last night if he was having a seizure, the vet said it was possible it was a seizure or him struggling to get up.

        If anyone has any ideas or any experience with this please let me know. They are trying to find the bacteria that is causing this.


      • Moonlightbunny66
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          Also, he has staphylococcus aureus, if that makes any difference.


        • Bam
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            I’m so sorry. It does sound like he is in good hands. Sepsis is very serious in humans too. Antibiotics (intravenous)  and supportive care is how sepsis is treated. Sadly some bacteria are resistent to antibiotics nowadays, but hopefully the vets will find a combination that will work.

            I can understand that they asked about the cats, since you have cats. Cats have, as all cat owners know, many bad bacteria on their teeth, f ex pasteurella. Cats’ teeth are needle-like and pretty much inject bacteria deep into the flesh, which may not even leave a wound thats visible at first. So I think that’s why they asked about the cats  – but the majority of rabbits also have pasteurella in their mouths, and rabbits will of course lick any wound they get.

            Staph aureus is normally present more or less everywhere- f ex on skin and in the airways, so its a very, very common bacteria in the environment.

            It does seem like your vets know what they are doing.

            More vibes for (((((Muffin)))))

             

             

             

             


          • DanaNM
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              I’m so sorry 🙁

              It sounds like he is in very good hands, hopefully they make some progress with the antibiotics. It’s very good he has an appetite, it shows he is a fighter.

              (((Muffin)))

              . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


            • LBJ10
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                I agree. It’s understandable why they would ask about your cat. It sounds like he is in the right place though. Hopefully they can get things under control. It will definitely be an uphill battle.


              • Moonlightbunny66
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                  Thank you guys. The staphylococcus aureus is the only information we got from the tests he had a while ago. The vet said the same thing Bam, and that it’s only an issue when there’s too much of it. For some reason I keep forgetting it’s a common bacteria because I was just told that it’s the bacteria causing his chin to flare up. Now I’m left here wondering if that really is the cause of his chin issue. She said his chin is clear today, though. Which I assume is because of the antibiotics he’s on.

                  They also told me if it’s pasteurella causing the infection, Pinky could have it and we would have to get him treated and sterilize everything they’ve been in contact with. She said to watch for watery eyes and nasal discharge (and something else I can’t remember right now). The only thing I’ve noticed is around his nostrils has been stained green, same with his chin and neck, which I brought up to the vet last time he went a few weeks ago.

                  I’m constantly so worried. The past week has been so incredibly hard. I try to bring up everything I can think of to the vet hoping I can get more information across that may help him. Mostly just small things that I’ve been thinking of but everything worries me so much.

                  Thank you everyone for your support. I know they’re doing their best to help Muffin. I’m really hoping he keeps feeling better and they can fight the infection. I love him so much.


                • Bam
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                    It is extremely stressful to have a poorly rabbit.

                    Pasteurella is present in many if not most rabbits’ mouths and noses. In most rabbits they dont cause harm, but in some rabbits, or any rabbit under some circumstances (young rabbits with immature immune defense, rabbits in poor and stressful living conditions, rabbits with some other concurrent health issue, very old rabbits etc) they can seize the opportunity to divide and multiply in a big way, until they eventually become so many that they do cause harm. The typical first symptoms are cold-like, f ex thick nasal discharge that isnt clear. There are also different strains of pasteurella, and some are more virulent than others.

                    You will of course watch Pinky closely, because you evidently are the type of person that watches their rabbits closely 🙂

                    If you want to sterilize your home, you can use Virkon S, because it isnt toxic to rabbits and it doesnt have a smell. (Chlorine bleach is effective too, but it can of course damage some surfaces and you should air out the fumes before you let the rabbits have access to the cleaned area).

                    I dont know if you have read this, but here is some info on pasteurella from the HRS (2016):

                    https://rabbit.org/pasteurella-its-health-effects-in-rabbits/

                     


                  • Hazel
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                      I’m so sorry, what a horrible situation. 🙁  I hope they will get the infection under control, poor little Muffin. Stay strong, we’re here for you!


                    • Moonlightbunny66
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                        Thank you guys. Pinky had brownish stuff on his nose and paws maybe a month ago, he has it again today so we’re taking him to the vet for the afternoon. I thought before it was just poop he layed in or from eating his cecotropes because liquid usually comes out of his scent glands when he does that. But we’re taking him just to make sure he’s okay, and he needs blood work done anyway because his poops are still weird, even after trying diet changes.

                        Thank you for the tip with the sterilization. I did read a bit on that page, but I can check it out again.

                        The vet did say the same thing about pasteurella being present in most rabbits. We aren’t certain on Muffin’s age, since he’s from an animal shelter. The vet looking after him said it’s possible that he could be younger than what we said, and we think he’s around 5 years 7 months old. We don’t know for sure.


                      • Moonlightbunny66
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                          Muffin may need a blood transfusion from another big rabbit today, we don’t know if Pinky is healthy enough to do it yet. We are trying to find a big rabbit even if we need to adopt or foster. Does anyone have any ideas on how we can find one fast?


                        • DanaNM
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                            Oh goodness, maybe reach out the rescue? Maybe they know of a past adopter who would be willing to be a donor?

                            . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                          • prince dorian the bun
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                              So sorry you are going through this, hoping Muffin pulls through. & hope you found a big rabbit.


                            • Moonlightbunny66
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                                Thank you guys. Luckily, they had a big rabbit come in for a teeth checkup. The owner is a veterinarian and allowed him to do the blood transfusion with Muffin.

                                Earlier, we got a phone call saying they think he has a perforation in his cecum, causing the infection. He was going to get surgery after the blood transfusion to clean it out. The survival rate of that would be 10-15%. Right now, they’re uncertain if there really is a perforation or not because there have been multiple people looking at it his ct scan. The plan right now is to continue the blood transfusion (they already started) and tomorrow they plan on doing the abscess cleaning surgery on his leg. Before they do that, they will check his belly to see if there is a perforation or not. That will make them decide what happens from there.

                                Thank you everyone for your support. I truly appreciate it.


                              • Moonlightbunny66
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                                  For an update on Pinky going to the vet today, he has a big gas buildup in his digestive system. The vet said he looks like a stasis rabbit. He got blood work done, x rays, and subcutaneous fluids. He’s getting metacam and trimebutine. The vet said we can also give him Simethicone drops and I emailed them earlier asking what dosage he should get and photos of the bottle. We’re doing this for a week to see if it helps him and his poops.

                                  She said there was no mucus in his nose that she could see, but to keep watching him and checking his nose a couple times a day.

                                  I found a red spot on his leg but we aren’t sure if it’s from the blood work or fluids. We might try to shave it in a bit to look at it, our vet is closed now so we can’t ask them until morning.


                                • Moonlightbunny66
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                                    The red spot on Pinky looks like it was from getting his blood taken or given fluids. I didn’t have to shave it, he was grooming it so the fur was easier to part in that spot. It’s bruised and has a tiny bit of blood in one spot. I looked it up and it seems like that area is commonly used for taking blood for blood work, near the tibia on the hind leg.


                                  • DanaNM
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                                      Poor Muffin, I’m so sorry. What an ordeal. 🙁  Do they think that the sore on the leg caused an infection that lead to the perforation? or the other way around? My guess would be the infection in the blood attacked the cecum?

                                      I would personally be hesitant to jump to a surgery on the cecum with that low of a survival rate… I would want to make sure other options were ruled out first. I hope they they can treat the abscess and start to see improvement with the transfusion.

                                      I hate to discuss worst case scenarios, but if Muffin does pass, it will help Pinky to spend time with his body. I mention this because sometimes people in grief have their bun cremated and the bonded mate doesn’t get to see the body. It helps the surviving rabbit to get over the loss, as they understand what has happened (instead of just searching for their friend and not finding them). I know this is heartbreaking to think about. 🙁

                                      We can talk more about Pinky later, but the foster that I cared for that had cow pile syndrome also had a ton of gas build up in his cecum. Pinky might benefit from a long term daily cisapride. Simethicone wouldn’t hurt either. The usual dose is 1 cc per hour for 3 hours in the case of gas, so he could prob have 1 cc twice a day. Some bunnies really like the taste. He might always have gross poops, but with some motility meds and diet management he will feel much better. I’m interested to hear how he does with trimebutine. It looks like something normally used for irritable bowel syndrome.

                                      . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                                    • Moonlightbunny66
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                                        Thank you DanaNM. We just got another update and the vet said they found two bacterias in the swab so far, and they haven’t seen pasteurella. I can’t remember what they are called but one of them is found in poop and soil, and would’ve had to be poked into his skin for the bacteria to spread. They said the bacteria grows without oxygen, and doing surgery to clean out the abscess tomorrow should help.

                                        I did ask if the cecum surgery was the only option at the time, and if it comes back to it then it might be.

                                        I was thinking about that. It really hurts to think about it so I will speak to the vet if it ever comes to that.

                                        We were speaking to her about Pinky, since our vet is closed for the night now. She said she doesn’t advise Simethicone and I think Cisapride as well. I was surprised about the Cisapride, though I don’t know much about medicine. She said they use medicine that have had lots of studies on. She also said they know Simethicone doesn’t hurt, but they don’t know if it helps (which we all know but it can be worth a try). We were given Cisapride for Muffin from the emergency vet and I mentioned that when he first went in but I forgot to tell her on the phone a few minutes ago, because of how much information we’ve been getting. She also said the Trimebutine should help with gas, so hopefully he’s feeling better soon. She also advised to give Pinky some critical care tonight since he’s not pooping much now. I fed him some in a bowl with .5mL of Simethicone in it just to try to help, and he cleaned it all up. He looks a little bloated right now but I’m not totally sure. We were also told at the vet today that Pinky had lost a bit of weight.

                                        Thank you.


                                      • Hazel
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                                          Simethicone has always worked very well for me when Oscar had gas. I understand the vet doesn’t want to recommend something they don’t have a lot of data on, but I think that might be mainly for liability reasons.

                                          I hope Muffin’s surgery goes well today, and hopefully that will turn things around and the cecum surgery won’t be necessary.


                                        • Moonlightbunny66
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                                            Thank you Hazel. I appreciate your support.


                                          • Bam
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                                              There isn’t much data on simethicone for buns. Some vets say it can’t help because rabbits can’t burp. Luckily, gas can escape via the other end of the rabbit. I use simethicone for my bun, in my experience it works very well for gas – but gas drops alone won’t cure more complex GI issues. It is interesting that you got Trimebutin for Pinky.

                                              Cisapride for buns was popular several years ago, then many vets began to prefer prescribing Reglan (metoclopramide), but this last year we have had quite a few rabbits here that have been prescribed cisapride.

                                              Continued good vibes for (((((Muffin))))) and (((((Pinky)))))


                                            • LBJ10
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                                                I’ve always had good luck with simethicone, at least when it comes to simply gas issues. I told the vet I was using it and she just shrugged. LOL


                                              • Wick & Fable
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                                                  I too have had good experiences with simethicone. It can be really difficult to gauge what issues would only need simethicone vs. it is something that it won’t remedy. For example, simethicone has been the only intervention I use for one of my rabbit’s gas episodes, but it can take up to 8 hours for him to get back to eating. If it is an issue that simethicone can’t help, then waiting 8 hours can absolutely be lethal– so I completely understand a vet’s hesitation with recommending it.

                                                  The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.


                                                • Moonlightbunny66
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                                                    Thank you guys. My primary vets said I can give it to him, 1.75ml twice a day, 12 hours in between. We’re going to take him to an emergency vet tonight, since our vet is closed and he injured his nail. I found a torn piece on the floor with dried blood on it. His nail isn’t bleeding right now but the quick is black, the skin around is bruised, and the nail is really short.

                                                    It’s been miserable. My anxiety is constant.


                                                  • Moonlightbunny66
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                                                      We might actually not take him in tonight, I just spoke to the vet at the ICU and she said not to worry about it too much. She said to keep it clean and watch it, since we shouldn’t put him on antibiotics if he doesn’t need it. She said I can clean it with germi-stat, so I just did, using gauze.

                                                      For Muffin, the other day, there was a problem with the blood transfusion catheter that the technicians didn’t catch. Most of the blood leaked into his bandage, but his blood levels improved a bit. We had them get another rabbit from a meat farm, because it was our only option to get a rabbit quickly. They will keep the rabbit there for now, making sure he’s healthy and in case they need him for a blood transfusion for Muffin. We will be taking the farm rabbit home eventually.

                                                      Muffin had a surgery, they did not see a perforation in his cecum. They got rid of some dead skin on his belly and cleaned up some of the abscess on his leg. He is still in the ICU and they are monitoring him, making sure he’s okay. There have been other changes but these are the biggest things right now. She said he will probably need more surgeries in the future.

                                                      Thank you everyone for your support. I really need all the positivity and comfort I can get.


                                                    • LBJ10
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                                                        I’m glad to hear you will be taking the farm rabbit home. He deserves a chance at life. 🙂

                                                        Nail injuries look nasty, but they are seldom serious. It’s rare for them to get infected too since all the blood washes any germs away. The quick may be permanently damaged, but there isn’t much you can do about that. The nail may grow back funny. Sometimes they don’t grow back at all if it’s bad enough.

                                                        Hopefully Muffin will do better after the surgery. If they get rid of some of the nasty stuff, his body might be able to catch up in fighting the infection.


                                                      • Moonlightbunny66
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                                                          Thank you LBJ10.

                                                          That makes me feel a bit better. I will keep an eye on it. What would it look like if it were infected? He also has a short, crooked nail on one of his hind paws. I believe it was like that before we got him, so maybe something similar happened to him before. I’m not really sure what happened this time, his nails were trimmed at the vet 2 or 3 weeks ago. Also, his belly feels firm when he’s laying down stretched, but when he’s laying in a position similar to a loaf, it feels more squishy. Since he has gas, what does this mean?

                                                          Thank you. The vet said that opening the abscess and exposing it to oxygen should help get rid of the bacteria causing the infection. I think she said it was an anaerobic bacteria, which grows without oxygen.


                                                        • LBJ10
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                                                            It will look angry if it’s infected. Red, swollen, hot to the touch, etc. You can certainly clean up the area if you want to, although I’m sure Pinky already has. As for his belly, I’m not sure that means anything. That area would naturally be a bit tighter when stretched out.


                                                          • Moonlightbunny66
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                                                              LBJ10 thank you. I’m just so worried about every little thing now.


                                                            • DanaNM
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                                                                I’m very glad to see that Muffin’s cecum wasn’t perforated. Hopefully he can start fighting off the infection now!

                                                                . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                                                              • Hazel
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                                                                  I’m so glad Muffin’s surgery went well and his cecum is intact, that’s great news. Muffin can do this, he’s a fighter! 🙂  You have so much on your plate right now with both of your buns. How’s Pinky today?


                                                                • Moonlightbunny66
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                                                                    Thank you guys. Pinky is doing okay, he still eats some hay, lettuce, and pellets. I think he is more picky with hay when Muffin isn’t here. He was also not as excited eating critical care today and took longer than normal to finish it. He’s been flopping a lot. He was at the vet last night and they said his nail is okay but he’s still gassy, I got more meds and now he’s on metacam 1mL morning and night. Still on trimebutine and giving him Simethicone. They also gave me Cisapride and Buprenorphine to use only if the extra metacam isn’t helping. It’s his estimated birthday today, it makes me sad that Muffin isn’t here to celebrate with him.

                                                                    Muffin is still in the ICU, he got the blood transfusion the other day from our new rabbit. His blood levels have improved a bit, but still not normal. They got him off the blood pressure medication. I think he is only on a tiny bit of dextrose right now. They are postponing the neurological assessment for later, because he still has catheters in so it’s hard to move him.

                                                                    Our new bunny is now home and we’re letting him settle in.


                                                                  • Moonlightbunny66
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                                                                      Pinky is also on Sulfatrim, 1mL every 12 hours because he is a bit wheezy and his nose has been whistling. He has also been possibly snorting in his sleep? And snoring. So the vet said it might be a respiratory issue.

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                                                                  FORUM HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Muffin’s Infection