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Forum BEHAVIOR My rabbit’s behaviour is drastically worse after a spay

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    • Lisa-P&T
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        Hi everyone,

        I’ve signed up to this forum because I’m extremely stressed out! I would really appreciate some help and advice.

        I have a rabbit called Phil (originally thought to be a he!). She coming up on 8 months old now. She has been free roam more or less since day 1 – she has the run of the apartment. At around 5/6 months old, she started digging a lot and deliberately weeing on our bed, but that wasn’t anything we couldn’t handle. We got her spayed because having been home 24/7 since she was 8 weeks, I was going back to work 4 days a week, and we wanted to get her a friend so that she would be OK with this.

        Since her spay, she has been a very different rabbit (spayed over 5 weeks ago). On the plus, she is no longer weeing on our bed, though she is digging and moving around our duvet a lot. She has become quite food aggressive too. She hasn’t bitten us but she will charge our hands when we go to leave food down, which is scary. Additionally, she has been much more dominant with me in particular: nipping me for attention or to make me move, but not my boyfriend.. She has also been tantrumming when she doesn’t get a treat right away: throwing the remote controls off the couch or throwing her food bowl. The latter 2 issues have partially resolved in the last week or so. Finally, she has started growling and grunting when she is displeased with anything. She even lunged at my boyfriend once out of nowhere, but that was close to the spay so I’m discounting that incident and attributing it to fluctuating hormones.

        Is this normal?? Far from being dominant and mean before her spay, she was more so on the nervous and neurotic side. I mean, a bit bossy but no more than you’d mind. She loves a good rub and nuzzle and was always a bit greedy – probably my fault for always giving her snacks and running to reward her from a young age for any good behaviour.

        There is an associated issue with her being outrageously territorial and aggressive when she smells our second rabbit but I wonder whether that query would be better posted in the Bonding section..? I don’t want to post in the wrong thread..

        Her current behaviour may be better understood in conjunction with a further explanation of that issue so I can clarify if anyone wants to try to advise..?

        Overall, I am very stressed because, although this is awful to say, I’m starting to dislike her 😭 I’m nervous of her all the time, I no longer trust her and second guess every move and look. She’s far better with my boyfriend and I’ve been avoiding her and spending time with our other rabbit, and therefore, feeling even less comfortable around her. I know my avoidance isn’t helping either of us and I actually think she is starting to see me as more of an intruder or something, whereas we used to be best buds.

        Any advice would be so much appreciated!

        Again, if you want related info on our second rabbit and her aggression in that area, I will add to the thread if that’s possible.

        Thanks so much,

        Lisa


      • Bam
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          This is a good place for your questions. For more specific advise on bonding matters and methods and also what progress or non-progress you are making, the bonding section is the appropriate section.

          I can understand that you are starting to resent her. Keep in mind that many parents of human teenagers also start to resent their teenage offspring. Evolutionary speaking, this  has a purpose  -adolescence is the time when the child becomes an independent individual. This means emancipation from the parents, and quite often, especially where animals are concerned, a rejection of the young adult by the parent. So this is normal, but it is important to remember that it is just a phase in your relationship. You were her best bud, but now she’s a rebellious teenager and you are the mother of a rebellious teenager. You will most likely be best buds again, although she will of course never be a baby again. She will be an adult individual with her own opinions. Girl rabbits can have quite strong opinions, which is normal.

          It can take a long time for girl rabbits to “calm down” after a spay. Boy rabbits as a rule calm down about 2 weeks post neuter, although some may need up to 8 weeks.  Girls often needs longer than that, and we’ve had several girls here who needed 6 months before their excessive hormonal behavior subsided.

          It is great that she likes interacting with your boyfriend. It means she isn’t anti-social, and it increases the chances that she will be accepting of you too, given time. Your bf might always be her favorite, but things like those are not within our power to decide over. My dog chose my mum as her favorite, which was disconcerting for me, but it wasn’t up to me to decide 😂

          It would be very interesting if you added info about your other bun and the interactions between the two!


        • Lisa-P&T
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            Bam, thank you so much for your detailed and thoughtful reply! I actually got a bit teary just for having some reassurance!! So silly!

            I’m very disheartened to hear it may take 6 months to calm down but hopeful regarding your comment about her not being antisocial. She is actually very social and I hope we will get a good relationship back!! I know avoiding her probably isn’t helping but we have to split time between them both so I can always justify it! May e just more bonding time, me and Phil..


          • DanaNM
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              I second what Bam said, more time may be the main solution. I would also ensure that you aren’t reinforcing negative behaviors unintentionally. Our pets will turn us into “vending machines” if we let them!

              If she bites you when you go to give food, don’t give the food. When she charges your hand, it can help to pet the top of her head with the back of the hand, then she will realize she will get pets when she runs up. Reward her for calm behaviors you want to promote, and try to ignore those that you don’t.

              Is she free-roam? If so, temporarily restricting her space to a pen that is “hers” might also help with the lunging if it’s territorial. Sometimes I think free-roam rabbits will see the whole space as theirs, and become “cage aggressive” in a sense as they try to defend that space. Having an area that’s hers (that you don’t mess with too much) can help with this.

              All of this also might be amplified due to the presence of the other bunny in the house. So if you are spending lots of time with that bunny, you likely smell like him, so she might be reacting more to that than to you specifically. Rabbits are much more smell oriented than we realize!

              . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


            • Lisa-P&T
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                Hi DanaNM,

                Thanks for your input too! Yes, maybe more time… They won’t be introduced until mid-February so that will be about 3 months all-in since her spay. Hopefully she will be a bit more level by then 🤞

                You’re right, I had most definitely set myself up as her vending machine and it’s my own fault. I’m also not doing it so much lately  so maybe she’s annoyed at me generally for being more insubordinate..?! 😅

                Confining her is a good idea, and we did buy a massive pen to confine her after her spay but she HATED it. It is about 4.5ft high and she continually tried to jump out of it, so we had to concede after 2/3 days as we felt she was at more risk of catching and breaking a leg in the bars or ripping her stitches trying to jump out. We’ve always let her do absolutely anything she wants so I guess we have contributed to this bold behaviour. Maybe we could confine her…

                My boyfriend isn’t one bit scared of her and he has been trying to reinforce good habits around feeding time,  making her wait until she is a bit calmer before putting down the food. I’m very nervous of her and again, she is worse with me on all counts, so maybe I should just power through.

                Yes, she may well smell Tony on me. I spend a lot of time with Tony – we’re a bit of a split camp at the minute, and I’ve probably been a bit less conscientious with changing every article of clothing between rooms.

                Should we let Tony and Phil into the bedroom and continue to let them smell each other that way, or do you think keep one/both out? I don’t want to restrict either unfairly but I also don’t want them to have a negative association with the other (even by smell) before bonding. What do you guys think?


              • Lisa-P&T
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                  I tried to add to the thread yesterday with more info on our second bun but it doesn’t seem to have worked so I’ll pop a brief summary here…

                  Our second female rabbit, Tony (again, originally thought to be a he) is a 14 week old Lionhead. She is so gregarious, fun, confident and adventurous. I think they will be well-matched, energy-wise, and I hope Phil will be less neurotic with a friend.

                  They have met on 2 occasions. We put Tony in a cage and let Phil approach the cage. She went MENTAL. She tried to maul Tony through the bars, threw things, circled, charged, bit my boyfriend hard, and generally took ages to calm down. This was a huge rookie mistake on our part as we introduced them in Phil’s main living area and pre-spay. We separated and tried the next day in the hall, a slightly more neutral area for Phil as she only passes through to get to our bedroom. She was slightly less vicious but still very aggressive so we haven’t let them near each other since.

                  Tony lives free roam in the spare room. We close Phil into the kitchen/living room for a few hours at a time (she can normally move freely around the apartment) to let Tony into the hall and our bedroom for a rummage and a run and a cuddle.

                  We generally try to spray aftershave or change clothes between interactions but it has kind of ended up a split camp at this point, where I spend more time with Tony and my bf with Phil.

                  Up until yesterday, Phil hadn’t seemed to notice or mind Tony’s smell in our bedroom (but would still get agitated if she smelled her on us in the living room which is 100% her territory). But, my bad, Tony had pee’d on a sheet right before bed and I left it on the ground and forgot to take it out before work and Phil obviously got wind of it. So when we got home yesterday after work, Phil was extremely territorial. Circling and charging my feet in particular (every time she saw me for 4 hours), charging us from under the bed, lunging when we tried to pick anything up from the bed or around it and growling. We had to keep her in the living room all evening and she didn’t really ever calm down.

                  I know that was 100% my fault and I don’t blame her for her response but the sheer level of aggression/agitation really worries me that she will never accept Tony 😟 we will be sending them to a bonding service and doing all of the vinegar cleaning and rearranging furniture etc before they come home but even at that, I have MAJOR worries. Do you think they’re justified or am I being an overly anxious rabbit mom?


                • DanaNM
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                    I’ll reply here even though this is bonding related since this is all related to her behavior.

                    I take it that Tony isn’t spayed yet? Rabbits reactions towards one another can change dramatically after they are spayed/neutered. Reading this I do think that Tony’s presence might be more of a player in Phil’s behavior than you realize!

                    They also might behave really differently towards each other in a completely neutral space. So I wouldn’t give up hope yet. It is rare for bonds to be impossible, but it could take a lot of work. Having a bonder lined up is a big plus on your end!

                    A couple things you can try in the meantime. You can leave a “stuffy” with Tony so it gets Tony’s scent on it (or rub your hands or a brush on both), then give the stuff to Phil. She might attack it, mount it, sniff it, etc. But it can help her get used to Tony’s scent in a non-threatening way. You could also do this with a towel with Tony’s scent on it, but stuffies seem to work well.

                    In between spending time with Tony and Phil, change your socks, wash your hands, wear a dif sweater, etc. If you think Phil is going to lunge at your hand, wear an oven mitt or glove so you aren’t afraid. If she does lunge at you, just hold your hand there and don’t move it. For getting her used to hand feeding gently again, feeding longer foods (like stems of herbs, lettuce leaves, etc.) is helpful.

                    This article by the HRS has some really good info that might be helpful to you! https://rabbit.org/faq-aggression/

                    Once Tony is spayed, you should consider whether you want to do pre-bonding. This would likely require some changes in housing set up. I think ideally you would pen both rabbits, then alternate who gets to come out on free-roam, and swap who is in what pen every day or two. NIC cube condos are my favorite for temporary housing during bonding, as you can made simple ones (with roofs) that can be broken down and reconfigured for the newly bonded pair.

                    Since Phil is pretty territorial, this might help things as she will have to get used to the other rabbit being in her territory. At first she might be worse, but it should get better over time. The idea is that the rabbit realizes the world hasn’t ended even though the other rabbit is there. Even with sending them off to a bonder, this might set you up for an easier bond and make things go more smoothly once you bring them home.

                    . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                  • pinkiemarie
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                      We alternate play time vs home time and I think it definitely helps. Everything smells like both rabbits so they kind of get used to it. That would make Tony’s smell on you bother your other bunny less. But the smell might be too much until the 2nd rabbit is spayed. I’m sure the spayed rabbit can smell the hormones on the unspayed rabbit in a way we could never understand, and the hormones make her smell like a rival. Female rabbits tend to be dominant so they’ll be more aggressive towards each other than towards a male. That will get better after the 2nd spay!


                    • Lisa-P&T
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                        A bit THANK YOU to all of you for your time and advice – you have really assuaged my worry and given me hope that all will be well 😊 it’s also made me realise that Tony’s smell may be far more of an issue than I realised and probably I’ve been getting careless about changing every article of clothing between rooms lately. So maybe Phil isn’t annoyed at me as such, and more at how I smell. I’ll be more careful until Tony is spayed and then, yes, maybe try some safely managed pre-bonding..

                        Thanks for the pen tip DanaNM, we actually have 2 separate pens bought already because I’m so afraid they’ll bite through bars.

                        I really do think Phil will be so happy to meet Tony at the bonders and vice versa. They are both very social rabbits. I guess we’ll just have to do all in our power to facilitate them when they get home and hope for the best 🤞

                        Again, thanks to all of you for your advice, shared experience, links, and reassurance. It means the world and I think I’ll be much more happy and confident with Phil now 🐰 and on the plus side, it’s only 6ish weeks until Tony’s spay so we are getting there slowly but surely!!✨

                        I hope you all stay safe and well this Christmas! 🎄❤️


                      • DanaNM
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                          You’re welcome! Keep us posted on how everything goes with the bonding etc.!

                          . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

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                      Forum BEHAVIOR My rabbit’s behaviour is drastically worse after a spay