FORUM

What are we about?  Please read about our Forum Culture and check out the Rules

BUNNY 911 – If your rabbit hasn’t eaten or pooped in 12-24 hours, call a vet immediately!  Don’t have a vet? Check out VET RESOURCES 

The subject of intentional breeding or meat rabbits is prohibited. The answers provided on this board are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet.  It is your responsibility to assess the information being given and seek professional advice/second opinion from your veterinarian and/or qualified behaviorist.

BINKYBUNNY FORUMS

FORUM HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Unexplained GI stasis

Viewing 7 reply threads
  • Author
    Messages

    • Wolfgang
      Participant
      7 posts Send Private Message

        So Poppy (2 1/2 years old, she’s the grey one) is getting over her second bout with GIS, I caught it early, but still ended up at the hated VCA as an emergency, since no other vets had any appointments soon enough, and yes, I did try them ALL, including my longtime cat vet, but she’s no longer allowed to see anything other than cats and dogs.

        In the midst of massive amounts of utter face diaper insanity, they kept us – well, her, I wasn’t allowed in because Bill Gates….- there quite literally all day and at the end of the horror movie, we were sent home with a host of meds (butorphanol, enroflaxacin, metoclopramide, sodium chloride subcue fluids) as well as infant gas relief and an electric toothbrush (?) I was instructed to get at Walgreens, the vet looking very much like something out of a Japanese sci-fi movie from the 50s telling me she needs to get spayneutercastrated ASAP. Predictable, these people.

        Poppy was pretty much back to normal the next day, but we’re still doing meds, the enro and meto bottles being quite large, and she’s also getting Oxbow Critical Care via feeding syringe, all of which she hates.

        She is free roam, sleeps under my bed, gets timothy hay and fresh greens (kale, collard greens, spinach, celery, parsley, that sort of thing, organic whenever possible) and a little piece of apple, peach , carrot or some other sweet veggie for a treat. Her and her brother Peachy do, of course, chew on cardboard, books, clothes and all that, there’s really no way I can completely stop them from doing that, they do have enough wooden chew toys for a whole herd of rabbits, but cardboard boxes seem to be the favorite.

        Managed to get a non-emergency appointment at a vet recommended for ‘exotics’ (what’s exotic about rabbits ?), more slave rag craziness, tracking device (code name: ‘smart phone’ ) conference from the car while they examined Poppy, told to stay on meds, this vet being much less Marxist gung-ho about the castration, told me uterine cancer is actually pretty rare and the biggest problem with unspayed females is aggression. I told the vet (phonewise, that is…) that some aggression actually helps her, because there’s also a cat – whom Poppy chases…..This vet was also honest enough to admit that no one really knows why some rabbits get GIS while others (like Poppy’s brother) don’t, because she doesn’t really have any excuse, diet being almost ideal , stress levels low, etc.

        My question is if there’s anything I can do to prevent any further attacks, looking at maybe giving her some Bromelain or Papain every now and then, one paper I have on GIS says some lactobacillus might help, maybe frequent tummy massages….

        Any ideas ?

         


      • DanaNM
        Moderator
        9064 posts Send Private Message

          Bromelain and papaya do not help with stasis, and recent evidence suggests they can actually cause harm if ulcers are involved (the enzymes can aggravate intestinal irritation).

          The most important things for preventing stasis and keeping the gut functioning well are fiber and hydration. How is her water consumption and hay consumption?

          Other causes of stasis are pain or stress. Pain from dental issues can cause stasis, as can gas pain. I do see that you mention collards and kale as staple veggies for her. Both of those are in the cabbage family, which can cause gas in some bunnies. Gas pain can lead to stasis if it doesn’t resolve, so you might try cutting out or limiting those veggies.

          Buns also often have tummy trouble when molting. Was she molting?

          I will say, because you brought it up, that uterine cancer is not rare. It has about 75% prevalence in rabbits over age 4, so I do recommend getting her spayed if you can.

          . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


        • LBJ10
          Moderator
          17227 posts Send Private Message

            Some bunnies are just prone to gas too. I always keep simethicone on-hand just in case. There is debate about how much it really helps, but I’ve always had good luck with it.


          • Wolfgang
            Participant
            7 posts Send Private Message

              If Bromelain and Papain are bad, why are they in Oxbow’s Critical Care, which is always the no.1 recommendation for GI stasis recovery ?

              They have unlimited water in 2 large stainless steel dog bowls, changed twice a day and unlimited Timothy hay in 2 self-made hoppers attached to 2 large litter boxes, takes them about 3-4 months to go through a 65 lb.bale.

              Kale is Poppy’s very favorite, she tries to grab the biggest piece and runs  away with it when it’s salad time, not so crazy about the collards, but I’ve never noticed either one of them having gas. She went from normal, stretched out, lounging on the carpet to refusing even a piece of carrot like flipping a switch.

              She was building another nest – collecting hay, carpet, her own fur – which she does about 3-4 times a year and she also chewed through a phone cord – not the first time, all of them are now WELL out of her reach and shoveling litter out of the litter box in the weeks prior to this episode, none of which is unusual behavior.

              The whole castration issue is a tricky one. Prior to muh1960s, no one even had nightmares about doing anything like that to an animal, but it sure has made veterinarians a LOT of money since then, hasn’t it? Seems to me that cutting out pieces of your reproductive system in order to prevent them from becoming sick is like cutting off your head to guarantee you’ll never have a headache. See Dr. Karen Becker’s excellent YouTube video on the subject, she’s talking about dogs, but the same would apply to any species. Cancer is generally a disease brought on by what we mistakenly refer to as ‘the good life’, in other words: unnatural, unhealthy habits and nutrition, exposure to chemicals and other toxins, etc. I wonder if wild rabbits ever get cancer at all…….


            • jerseygirl
              Moderator
              22356 posts Send Private Message

                Was she building her nest on the day she got stasis? If she was having a false pregnancy, it’s possible she stopped eating just like an actual pregnant rabbit would a day before they give birth. It’s the hormones released that bring on the labor.

                Do you recall what was going on with her with her previous bout of stasis?

                ”If Bromelain and Papain are bad, why are they in Oxbow’s Critical Care, which is always the no.1 recommendation for GI stasis recovery ?”

                To be honest, there are other things in critical care that I’d prefer were not (the soy hulls and soy mill) but I think it’s a case of the good outweighing the “bad”. The main benefit is the fibre to aid guy motility that’s in a syringeable form, and the sources for glucose & the supportive vitamins, IMO.


              • DanaNM
                Moderator
                9064 posts Send Private Message

                  Rabbit medicine has advanced significantly since the 1960s. Prior to that rabbits were not really kept as house pets, and lived fairly short lives when they were.  Dogs and rabbits are very different animals as well. Rabbits evolved to reproduce rapidly and early, and not to live long lives, as they are typically killed by a predator fairly young (such as a dog) in the wild.

                  False nesting is fairly stressful for the rabbit, so I wouldn’t rule that out as a contributing source of stress, or it could very well be as Jerseygirl suggested and due to the hormonal changes that mimic pregnancy.

                  You can read the study that is most often cited for the cancer rates in aging pet rabbits here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2032762/pdf/amjpathol00545-0225.pdf

                  Regarding Critical Care, bromelain added in a small amount to so supplement would be different than giving it straight to a rabbit. Here is the recent review in a veterinary text that mentions that bromelain may do more harm than good, depending on the issue:

                  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7258705/

                  . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                • Wolfgang
                  Participant
                  7 posts Send Private Message

                    She got over her nesting episode probably about a week before, and iirc, her first bout of GIS, which was over a year ago, also came on suddenly, the vet puzzled as to why. I’m guessing she’s prone to it, which means I’ll be keeping a VERY close eye on her and adjust her food to something most closely resembling a wild rabbit’s diet.

                    Based on what I’ve learned abut vets, the pet food industry and related topics, I’m assuming Oxbow gives fairly healthy kickbacks to make sure their product sells.


                  • Wolfgang
                    Participant
                    7 posts Send Private Message

                      What has drastically declined since muh1960s is the quality of food – you’d have to eat 4 or 5 oranges today to match the nutritional value of 1 orange your grandparents ate – and what has drastically expanded is the amount of chemicals, additives, hormones, antibiotics and other such stuff that is in absolutely EVERYTHING, even water.

                      Cancer is cells doing things they normally don’t  -or shouldn’t – and thus, something unnatural. Links between exposure to toxins and cancer is very well documented, even among the medical establishment, who aren’t nearly as trustworthy as most people unfortunately believe them to be.

                      How far back the keeping of rabbits as pets goes no one really knows, so much of history has been subverted, falsified, lied about and altered to suit various agendas.

                  Viewing 7 reply threads
                  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

                  FORUM HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Unexplained GI stasis