Tater and Pepper - aggressive bun bonding

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BINKYBUNNY FORUMS

This topic has 4sd replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 1 month ago by DanaNM.

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- 10/07/2020 at 3:01 AM
  Hoolia
  Participant
  4 posts
  Oooo boy. These two wanna fight. We’ve only started up again after a first rocky introduction so wanna make sure we’re on the right track.
  
  Spay/Neuter
  Are your bunnies spayed/neutered? Yes
  If so, for how long (for each)? Tater (male) over a year, Pepper (Female) 2.5 months
  
  Housing
  Please describe your bunnies’ current housing set-up (living together, as neighbors, etc.).
  
  One is out in a small room with an X-Pen that houses the other. They get swapped spots every 2 days. The X-pen blocks off a good portion of the room and had edges and areas where the outside rabbit can’t get to the pen.
  
  Bonding background
  Did you allow the bunnies to “settle-in”? We let Pepper settle in about a 1-1/2 months before attempting bonding.
  How would you describe your bunnies reactions towards each other (answer for each bunny): shy, scared, curious, calm, aggressive, excited, affectionate, etc.?
  
  Tater – Suuuuuper affectionate with people, kisses, cuddles, all of it. Tried humping Pepper the first time they met, but now is just aggressive.
  
  Pepper – Very shy, but learning to get attention, was a rescue colony rabbit. She Will take food from people and will settle in on your lap for pets with some happy tooth grinding but HATES being picked up. She was still a little hormonal and peed during their first meeting and instigated a fight. Now she’s also just aggressive to Tater.
  Have you done any “pre-bonding” (cage or litter box swaps, etc.)? I sweep any poops out and about and put them in the opposite litter box daily. They swap positions every 2 days.
  If so, for how long? 1.5 months.
  Have you started sessions yet? Yes, we tried and had Pepper exhibit hormonal behavior with peeing and fighting immediately so we separated and waited another month. Just started back up again and they still hate each other.
  How long have you been working on bonding your bunnies? 4 days after starting back up.
  How frequently do you have bonding sessions, and how long are they? Once a day, until we can get them to sit peacefully for a good moment.
  Have you tried any stressing techniques? Yes, we tried car stress bonding, but they got into a fight in the carrier in the middle of the drive. Now we use a 1x1x1 C&C grid to stress them before starting a session.
  
  These two just wanna fight, I need tips on how to handle more contentious bonding sessions. When we first introduced them, Tater attempted to hump and interact, but Pepper attacked him and peed, telling us she was still hormonal so we stopped for another month (she was about a month post-surgery at that point.)
  
  We have now started stress bond them with the grid container for a few minutes before placing them in the bathtub. They get stressed and will sit still in the tub, without traction they don’t move at all, we did it this way for a couple of days. We tried today with a towel for traction they stayed stressed for a moment, then immediately went in for a fight. We broke it up immediately, stressed them again, and placed them back in the tub with constant petting for both of them. We did this for a couple of minutes and ended the session so we could at least end without a fight to hopefully not backslide further.
  
  So at this point, I need some tips for going forward, we didn’t get a fairytale bond so we’re in it for the long haul. We’re willing to put a few months into this to try and get some progress before considering other options. I have a few questions, but please give me any advice you have.
  
  -I’ve heard both let rabbits interact and even sometimes nip if it’s just that, but don’t allow for fights. In my case, it seems almost any interaction or nip is a fight, so should I just block access to each other in the neutral space (with dustpan and gloved hands) and avoid letting them get close to each other for now?
  
  -Food or no food? Should I give them something to snack on while they’re in a neutral space? Would a bonding session where they both just eat some greens and it ends there be productive?
  
  -We’re considering doing some bonding outside as well, any issues if they’ve both played in the back yard before? Any problem switching between bonding locations?
  
  -I’ve heard start in a super small setup, should we try that? Is a whole bathtub too big to start for these two? We could do 2×2 C&C grids instead. I just worry the proximity will allow for more fights.
  
  -I’m having a hard time figuring out how to make a successful bonding session since these two will go for each other pretty quickly. If I put them in together and keep blocking their fight attempts until they give up and sit peacefully for a moment, is that success?
  
  Thanks in advance, this is our first bonding experience, and seems like we got a tricky case.
- 10/07/2020 at 10:50 AM
  DanaNM
  Moderator
  9054 posts
  Thank you for filling out the template! So helpful! My first pair (the two in my avatar) would fight on sight too, and it took about 3 months of work but then they were madly in love, so don’t lose hope! The goal for you now is to absolutely prevent fighting and work on building trust between them. The phase where they “sort out dominance” has to come once they have learned to communicate without fighting. Also keep in mind that rabbits fight out of fear, so helping them to not fear the other rabbit is a good thing.
  
  To answer your questions:
  
  “I’ve heard both let rabbits interact and even sometimes nip if it’s just that, but don’t allow for fights. In my case, it seems almost any interaction or nip is a fight, so should I just block access to each other in the neutral space (with dustpan and gloved hands) and avoid letting them get close to each other for now?”
  
  In your case, it is very important to prevent the fights, so at this point since you know the nipping will lead to fighting right away, you should prevent it. Rather than just jamming a dust pan between them, I like to use my hands (gloved if I’m worried about biting), and pet both rabbits really heavily when they approach each other so they think the other rabbit is grooming them. It sounds like the tub without the towel and with petting worked. So I would stick with that, and just focus on really short sessions for a bit. Set very short time goals, and then slowly slowly increase the length as you notice the are getting more relaxed around each other. You always want to end on a good note. If you end the session when they fight, then they learn that fighting will make the other rabbit “go away”.
  
  “Food or no food? Should I give them something to snack on while they’re in a neutral space? Would a bonding session where they both just eat some greens and it ends there be productive?”
  
  You could try it. Eating is a positive and social behavior. They might not eat in the short sessions in the tub, but as they get longer they might munch some hay or some veggies. Giving treats can also be a nice distraction for them.
  
  We’re considering doing some bonding outside as well, any issues if they’ve both played in the back yard before? Any problem switching between bonding locations?
  
  I love outside bonding, provided the space is safe. I also think changing up locations between different neutral spaces can be really helpful, especially if one spot isn’t working particularly well. It would be best if the area you bond in outside is not a spot they normally hang out in when you are outside.
  
  I’ve heard start in a super small setup, should we try that? Is a whole bathtub too big to start for these two? We could do 2×2 C&C grids instead. I just worry the proximity will allow for more fights.
  
  Personally I have always had much better luck with very large spaces. Since your rabbits have already fought in a small space, I might actually try a large one (like 2 x-pens linked up). The idea is that when an animal is scared, their options are fight or flight. If they are in a small space and one rabbit is trying to get away from the other one, they have no where to go and fights can escalate very quickly. This will also give you more time to gauge their behavior when they approach each other. You still need to be right there ready to intervene, but you can see how quickly they are approaching, ear position, tail position, etc.
  
  I’m having a hard time figuring out how to make a successful bonding session since these two will go for each other pretty quickly. If I put them in together and keep blocking their fight attempts until they give up and sit peacefully for a moment, is that success?
  
  Yes I think that is a positive if they eventually settle down and sit peacefully. Ignoring each other is a positive thing if the alternative was fighting.
  
  So to sum up: I think keep up with the tub sessions, keep petting a lot, prevent all nipping and biting for now, and ending on ignoring or peacefully behavior is a good thing. Focus on keeping everyone calm and developing a positive association between them. You could try a larger space in the backyard as well to see how that goes as well.
  
  The path from fighting to bonded is not always that straightforward. With my pair that fought right away, it took several weeks of stressing to get them to stop fighting. But then they just ignored each other for what felt like forever. Finally after about 2 months of ignoring, Bunston sloowly approached Bertha and groomed her. And then after that it was like they were “instantly” best friends. So patience is key!
  
  . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
- 10/07/2020 at 3:08 PM
  HipHopBunny
  Participant
  640 posts
  *Claps for DanaNM* 😀
  
  Wishing you luck and calm buns! 😀
- 10/07/2020 at 3:20 PM
  Hoolia
  Participant
  4 posts
  Thank you for such a thorough response DanaNM! I’m more confident about going forward! Hearing that you’ve been in a similar position makes me sure that we can get these two stinkers to be friends.
  
  We’re totally prepared for this journey and since we are only in the beginnings, wanna make sure we’re on the right track before getting frustrated or causing more damage.
  
  Sounds like at this point I’ll be sticking to the bathtub and I’ll see about starting to time their bonding sessions so I can keep a better record of their behavior. I’ll need to invest in another X-pen so we can have a designated outside bonding location once we get them a little more comfy with ignoring each other.
  
  I think our goal at this point is to entirely avoid fights/nipping as a positive bonding session since they are so tumultuous.
  
  Thanks again!
- 10/07/2020 at 3:47 PM
  DanaNM
  Moderator
  9054 posts
  You’re welcome! Sending you patience and calm vibes!
  
  . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
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