Should I bond?

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This topic has 15sd replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 3 months ago by kendall.

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- 08/01/2020 at 5:54 PM
  kendall
  Participant
  63 posts
  I have four single rabbits that I am hoping to bond into a group. I am getting nervous about being able to give them good care when I go back to school in three weeks and I have to give all four rabbits separate care, love, and play time. I want to be able to do all of that but it doesn’t seem possible when they are all separate. Three of them have been together for the last 2 months, so they are already prebonded for the most part. It is this new rabbit that is making things a bit more difficult because they don’t get fixed until September and by that point I am already back in school and won’t have time to bond them. How hard would it be to add another bunny into a trio if they had a long time to get used to each other? Should I tough it out through the school year and wait until next summer when I can bond them all at once?
  
  I was thinking of doing bunny dates with Calliope – Rosie and Theo – Rosie. I did one with Theo – Calliope the other week so I know that they will be ok together. Would it be a bad idea to bond a pair? I know that pairs can be difficult to add into but if I did about a year of prebonding I don’t think it would be that hard. I would love to have them all together, but I don’t know how to best go about it. I really don’t know what to do. Any help is appreciated. Sorry this is all over the place I am typing as questions come to mind.
  
  Spay/Neuter
  Are your bunnies spayed/neutered?
  
  Calliope (dutch f), Rosie (harlequin f), and Theodore (holland lop m) were spayed/neutered about 2-2.5 months ago
  
  Gwen (french lop ?) will be spayed/neutered September 1 (we don’t know the gender, but I think it is a girl)
  
  Housing
  Please describe your bunnies’ current housing set-up (living together, as neighbors, etc.).
  
  All of my bunnies live in X-pens. They are as close together as I can make them without them being able to touch. They can all see, hear, and smell each other. They also share a play area.
  
  Bonding background
  Did you allow the bunnies to “settle-in”?
  
  All of the bunnies have been here long enough to get comfortable, anywhere from a few weeks to a few months.
  How would you describe your bunnies reactions towards each other (answer for each bunny): shy, scared, curious, calm, aggressive, excited, affectionate, etc.?
  
  Rosie is the most territorial/aggressive bun. She has chased all of the bunnies through the bars. Theo is derpy and gentle so he doesn’t play into any of that. I did try to bond Theo and Rosie together and it went well, I just didn’t give them enough time to cement their bond so they ended up being separated. Rosie is holding a bit of a grudge, but if she worked past her huge grudge with Calliope, I think she can with Theo too with just a bit more prebonding. Calliope is the mature one, she will chase with Rosie a little bit, but her and Rosie were mirroring each other quite a bit while they were neighbors and there were many “snuggles” and flops through the bars. They did have an aggressive and negative past, but they seem to have worked it out. Gwen seems to be a bit aggressive. I don’t know if it is the hormones (Gwen has been quite hormonal) so I don’t really know what she will think after her spay/neuter. Gwen has chased through the bars as well.
  
  Once each bunny gets used to seeing their neighbor after I swap cages, everything dies down and they seem to enjoy having the company of another bunny. They will lay next to each other through the bars and some mirroring. I have only seen mirroring from Calliope and Rosie but lots of snuggles from everyone!
  Have you done any “pre-bonding” (cage or litter box swaps, etc.)? If so, for how long?
  
  I have done it off and on with Theo, Rosie, and Calliope over two months, but I have added Gwen into the mix recently (even though her scent will change) mainly to get her used to the other bunnies I have. I have done cage and belongings swaps.
  Have you started sessions yet?
  
  No, not since Theo and Rosie were split up.
  
  How long have you been working on bonding your bunnies?
  
  I have been working on it since I got Rosie and Calliope about 2 months ago, and Gwen has been thrown into the mix, about a month ago.
  Have you tried any stressing techniques?
  
  I haven’t and I don’t know how well they will work since Theo literally is not afraid of anything (he sniffs the vacuum while it is running).
- 08/01/2020 at 8:51 PM
  kendall
  Participant
  63 posts
  I just did bunny dates with Theo and Rosie and Calliope and Rosie.
  
  Theo and Rosie – I didn’t let it go on for very long. It felt like a little over 3 min. It seemed like they were saying “hi friend” and picked up where I left them with bonding.
  
  Calliope and Rosie – It went better than I was expecting but still not great. I started petting them next to each other, and then I stopped and Rosie started biting Calliope after about 5 seconds when calliope did not immediately start grooming her, but she bit her in her stomach. Not nipping, biting. I stopped it and started petting them again, and when I stopped, she started biting again, A LOT, but only in her stomach. Then Calliope was defending herself so she started to bite back. I sprayed Rosie with the spray bottle and separated them with my shoe hand. Then I didn’t want it to end like that so I did a force cuddle at the end. I wish I would have stopped it sooner because Calliope was stress wheezing and she wasn’t when I first started the date.
  
  Here’s Rosie and Calliope’s backstory; They had a previous owner that didn’t get them spayed. We are guessing that once hormones kicked in they started fighting. This VERY responsible owner then leaves them in a box on the side of the road. Luckily a nice person saw this happen and brought them to a rescue where they were separated, spayed and now they live with me. They have had a rocky road at my house since in the beginning I pushed everything to 100 mph. Then they were in different rooms for a few weeks. Now they are in the same room and have been for a week or two. They seem to be doing ok through the bars and I don’t see any signs that they are uncomfortable being around each other. I have moved them back to being neighbors, and tomorrow I will swap their cages.
  
  Questions
  
  Do I push it with Rosie and Calliope even though their hatred is deep? Should I try stress bonding and short sessions everyday and see how it goes with only Rosie and Calliope and introduce Theo later assuming they get that far? When do I know to call if quits with these two?
  
  Sorry this is so long, I figured the more info the better! but maybe not 🙂
- 08/01/2020 at 9:14 PM
  kendall
  Participant
  63 posts
  I wrote a novel…. I am sorry…. it’s my anxiety taking control…. I am going to turn my computer off now.
- 08/02/2020 at 10:53 AM
  DanaNM
  Moderator
  9054 posts
  So do you only have three weeks until you start school again? That seems ambitious to finish bonding a quad. It could be possible… but with a bond that new I would want to make sure I had lots of time to supervise once they were together, so that would stress me out. In my experience when a bonding is being pushing by anxiety that translates to the bunnies and makes things harder.
  
  I haven’t bonded a group myself, but I know some people will work on individual pairings first, but other’s recommend working on the whole group together if that’s the main goal.
  
  In any case, I have always had a stressful time when I’ve been under pressure to get bunnies bonded on a timeline. Of course I don’t fully understand your schooling, but if you will be staying home with them, it seems to me like you could work on slowly working with them even during the school year.
  
  Since with your group might require some work, I think it makes the most sense to continue with pre-bonding and just work with them when you can. Perhaps you can do short sessions here and there during the school year, then work on finishing them up over the holiday break? I don’t think it necessarily needs to be now or in a year.
  
  . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
- 08/02/2020 at 11:57 AM
  DanaNM
  Moderator
  9054 posts
  I also think it would be doable to finish up bonding the pair that you were previously working on that you mentioned was almost bonded. Then at least you would have 3 set-ups to tend to vs. 4.
  
  . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
- 08/02/2020 at 9:02 PM
  kendall
  Participant
  63 posts
  once school starts, I would be able to bond Wednesday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. I might be able to do sessions occasionally on the other days of the week, but not very consistently. I don’t know if this would be enough which is why I was thinking I would have to wait until next summer to actually have a cemented bond.
  
  Right now my plan is to work only with Rosie and Calliope to see if I can improve their relationship enough over the next three weeks. Here’s my plan….
  - only swap their cages everyday until this Thursday
  - After Thursday, continue swaps and add a stress session followed by a short session 2-3 times a day slowly working up how long they can spend with each other (is that too many times a day?)
  - get them to a few hours without fights, maybe even overnight, hopefully in three weeks, if it takes more time that’s fine if they are making progress
  - add in other bunnies when it is a good time depending on who ends up as friends first
  If it takes longer than three weeks before I feel comfortable adding other bunnies I would add separate sessions with each girl and Theo while continuing most of my work with Rosie and Calliope. This is the point where I would try to bond a pair with Theo so it could lighten my care load. Would it be too much to do two sessions a day for each bunny?
  
  When it comes to bonding rabbits that don’t like each other, how do I know when to call it quits? What are some methods that you have found work for hard bonds?
  
  I tried to make this as short as possible but give you everything!! Thank you so for helping me!! It’s just hard when they are all separate and there are so many variables, but I am going to try to take it one step at a time especially since bunnies do what ever they want and I will never be able to make a plan that THEY follow through with!! Thanks again for all of the help!!
- 08/02/2020 at 11:32 PM
  DanaNM
  Moderator
  9054 posts
  I think that sounds like a good plan. Two sessions per day is fine, so long as the bunnies are not overly stressed (keep an eye on eating, pooping, etc.). Doing sessions only 3 or 4 days a week is also fine. Might take a bit longer to fully bond than daily sessions, but you should still make progress.
  
  I think the most important things to remember for tough bonds (but all bonds really) are to be patient and go at the buns’ pace. There are tons of different methods and things to try, so if something isn’t working, try something else, but give it a chance to work, if that makes sense. So if you hit a plateau in a small space, try a larger space (and vice versa). The bonding location is also very important, it should be as neutral as possible, especially for a tougher combo. I find it helps to remember what I’m asking them to do! If a stranger walked into your home and declared “I live here now!”, it would probably take some adjustment on your part! So be patient with them and work on building trust among them.
  
  How long to keep trying is really up to you, so long as the buns are doing OK. My toughest pair took about 3 or 4 months I believe, but it was totally worth it. For groups it is a bit tricky because maybe you end up with 2 pairs that are great, or a trio, and will have to make the call whether it is worth the stress to keep trying.
  
  One thing to keep in mind is that group dynamics are different than pairs. So perhaps there are two that do not get a long in a pair, but in the group they are OK. So if you aren’t making progress with that pair, you might have better luck working with the group all together (as long as that remains your ultimate goal).
  
  . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
- 08/03/2020 at 2:26 PM
  kendall
  Participant
  63 posts
  I ended up being able to do a session with Rosie and Calliope today!! I started with an NIC grid box and I shook it around for a few minutes, but they didn’t need much, they just sat together for about 15 min and nothing negative happened at all. Since it was the very first session I was trying to get a feel for what works best for them so I put them into the bathtub, and they did ok in there too. They were in there about 5-10 minutes and at first they did great, but after being in there they both started asking for grooming which made Rosie start to bite Calliopes side. I let it happen twice before stopping the session. I ended with about another minute of stress and then put them away. It went much better than the “bunny date” that I set up. I think that I am going to do just a long session in the grid box tomorrow and see how they do with no added stressors. I am surprised how well they did in the tiny space!
  
  Is there anything I could have done differently? Thanks!
- 08/03/2020 at 2:39 PM
  kendall
  Participant
  63 posts
  Also they stayed next to each other almost the entire time they were in the tub. They were loafed, head to tail for most of it. I thought it was kind of strange but maybe I’m wrong and it was perfectly normal.
- 08/03/2020 at 2:47 PM
  DanaNM
  Moderator
  9054 posts
  Sounds good to me. Just remember to always try to end on a positive note. I also like to have the same good behavior repeat a few times before dramatically increasing the amount of time or the strategy (so do the same kind of date a few times in a row). This “cements” the behavior.
  
  . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
- 08/03/2020 at 2:52 PM
  kendall
  Participant
  63 posts
  Ok thank you! I tried to make sure it ended well, but I could have done a little better at that. Also Rosie still chases at the bars of her cage with her tail up and I know that that is an aggressive thing. Is there anything that I can do to try and diminish this behavior. I think that the bonding will help but would putting food or toys on the bars help her get a better feeling towards Calliope. They also each have stuffed animals would putting food on them help? Like the banana on the head trick but with a stuffy instead.
- 08/03/2020 at 4:56 PM
  DanaNM
  Moderator
  9054 posts
  In terms of the fence chasing, have you been doing side or litter box swaps? If the chasing doesn’t go down after a week or so of side swaps, it might be better to put up a blanket so she doesn’t get all worked up.
  
  Feeding their dinner on opposite sides of the fence near each other can help a lot. The idea is they realize eventually the other bun isn’t a threat.
  
  . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
- 08/03/2020 at 5:08 PM
  Peanutthebunny
  Participant
  239 posts
  maybe try bonding in pairs first that might work. have you watched 101 rabbits video it is very informative. i have never owned rabbits so I don’t know much and one more question why do you have four buns not that its bad just wondering
- 08/03/2020 at 8:18 PM
  kendall
  Participant
  63 posts
  I will give it a few more days before I put up the blanket, but they have been eating next to each other and I have been swapping their cages daily.
  
  Yes I have watched her video! I love her channel!! I have four rabbits because they are awesome… and because I got Theo, and then I wanted to get him a friend, so I went to an animal rescue and there were two rabbits there. They had been on their for a few months before I saw them and they said nobody else had shown interest. Even though we only went there to get Theo a friend we ended up with two friends (we knew we had the space and ability to care for them don’t worry)! Then we ended up with a pair and a single, because at that time Rosie and Calliope were “unbondable” but I think it’s just a challenge :). We wanted to make it a pair and a pair so now we have four. The first bond I did wrong so it was never really a bond but since having all four as singles, I have been more open to possibilities so that is why I know have this problem that is stressful but VERY educational!
- 08/03/2020 at 10:05 PM
  DanaNM
  Moderator
  9054 posts
  Hopefully she settles down, pre-bonding can really work wonders. 🙂
  
  . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
- 08/04/2020 at 7:36 AM
  kendall
  Participant
  63 posts
  Hopefully it does! Thanks for the help!
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