Thank you so much, DanaNM!!  That’s so great about Bun Jovi the wild man, haha.  And I’m so glad he pulled through last year!!  What a relief.

Thank you so much for the tip about Myristrol.  I’ll have to think it over because of the cow, pig, and shellfish ingredients, as I’m personally on the extreme end of the vegetarian spectrum (i.e., I can’t even order non-veg food for other people).  And the Sherwood joint support pellets, which are vegan, provide some of the same things… But on the other hand if Teddy seems to be suffering I will have to revisit that.  The manufacturer says to give 1.5 scoops per 10lbs but I’ve read elsewhere (just now) to just give 1-2 pellets twice a day.  What do you recommend?

That’s a good point about the tradeoff… I think maybe I’ll keep an eye on him and if he stops choosing to leap into his litterboxes (he has a lower side entry available but doesn’t usually use it), etc., then we’ll change the upstairs cottage routine.  (In front of his upstairs cottage doorway he has those little stairs with the fake sheepskin cover that are designed to help little dogs get onto a couch, and he uses them to get back down, but never climbs up them. 😉

Teddy’s generally been wary of humans touching him, but he’s been coming around slowly (I always ask if I can pet him first, using the same phrase and tone of voice each time, and then holding my hand tentatively over him, and he’ll either stay and let me, or turn away).  So I’m always trying to learn how and when and where he would appreciate being petted — it’s been a journey and I feel so dense that it’s taken me over a decade to even partially figure it out, haha! 😉  Sometimes he likes little back massages and other times not.  One thing I wonder if you’ve seen before, that he does and Athena did too: if I do a gentle massage over their lower back / hip area, they’ll start licking anything in sight (or their own shoulder) for a little while, but then after maybe 10-20 seconds of that, hop away with maybe a foot flick.  To this day I’m still not sure if they like it or find it annoying!  If you or anyone has a clue on this, I’d be all ears.  🙂

Thank you so much again!!  🙂 🙂

Thank you so much, DanaNM!!  That’s all really helpful. And great idea about the ramp!  He kind of jumps down the stairs, not super comfortable with him, so we’ll probably do that soon.

Thanks again!!

Good to know — thank you so much, Hazel!  CBD has helped me with my own joint pain, so I’d be interested in seeing if it could help Teddy!  🙂 What form do you give it in?  I wonder if anyone else has tried CBD for bunnies?

That’s great to know — thanks, Hazel!!

Hi everyone!  I’ve been giving Teddy CBD oil for about a month or so, so I wanted to come back here and report.  Thank you for the suggestion, Hazel!  (BTW, Teddy and your bunny look like they could be cousins!)

I Googled all I could to find bunny CBD dosage, but there’s not much out there.  The only guideline that I found mentioned more than once was about 0.25mg per pound.  I give Teddy 1 drop of a CBD oil that’s a 30mg/mL strength, and it says that 1 drop has 1mg of CBD (so, just slightly more than the guideline as Teddy’s about 3.5 pounds).

When I give Teddy his daily small amount of pellets, I save 1/4 or less and put them into a small cup.  I drop the drop of CBD oil onto the pellets in the cup and swirl/shake them till it’s relatively evenly distributed.  Teddy took a couple days to warm up to them but he likes them fine now.  The first day, I tried mixing CBD oil in simethicone (Teddy will gladly eat cisapride if it’s mixed into simethicone) but that was a hard no from him.  Maybe it was the wrong combination of flavors, like garlic salt on frosting, haha. 😛   The next day I tried mixing it into the pellets as well as a little of the Flopper’s Garden Old Bones herb mix that Teddy loves, and he ate it from then on.

Oh, also: We don’t give this at the same time as his medicine — apparently CBD can slow/inhibit liver metabolism of certain medicines to some extent, especially if given with or up to 4 hours prior to those medicines (I don’t know more details than that). I have no idea whether this applies to his medicines, but just to be safe, we give them like 6 hours apart, and haven’t noticed any negative effects.

Keeping in mind all this is just one person’s observation: I’d say this has been a positive addition to Teddy’s life.  The most notable difference is that he’s drinking a healthier amount of water, which I think is really helpful especially for when he’s shedding, etc.  He hadn’t been drinking much out of his bowl the past couple years, and now he’s regularly drinking 1-2 ounces a day, which is a good amount for him.  It doesn’t look like the unhealthy over-drinking I’ve seen in an unwell bunny; it seems healthy.  Apparently, if what I’ve read is correct, cannabis generally doesn’t cause dehydration but it can temporarily suppress the salivary glands somewhat for a few hours, causing the “dry mouth” feeling that motivates drinking more water.  So in my view, it’s a net positive.  I haven’t noticed Teddy grooming himself less or showing any other signs of discomfort.

Other than that, I also think he sleeps more soundly when he naps.  I haven’t noticed dramatic differences in his behavior otherwise, but he was acting pretty happy before.  (I got him the Cottontail Cottage ramp but he ignores it, haha, and still leaps upstairs and hops down the doggy stairs he’d been using.)  Not to jinx it, but so far he’s been more reliable with his eating habits than the prior few months, even though he’s going through a shed.  It’s possible I’m not giving him enough to have a bigger effect (Hazel, how many pounds is your ferret?).  But in summary, I’m happy with the CBD oil knowing that it could make him more comfortable, and that in any case, sleeping better and drinking more water is likely good for him.

Thank you so much again!!  🙂

Hi Hazel, and thank you so much for your generous reply!  🙂  That’s really great about your ferret’s doing so well with CBD!  🙂

You make a good point about experimenting with higher dosages since one can’t overdose on CBD.  These days I don’t know what more I could ask of Teddy’s health, since thankfully he seems to be doing well (and has basically all good days now since the CBD, knock on wood) 🙂 but I’ll keep it in mind as time goes by.

I found one article that did give a little more info on CBD and medications: https://www.healthline.com/health/cbd-and-drug-interactions-what-you-need-to-know  It says this:

“Although studies are still ongoing to determine potential interactions between CBD and specific medications, there’s one rule of thumb that can help consumers in the meantime: Avoid CBD if your medications have a grapefruit warning on the label.

This warning indicates that people taking the medication should avoid consuming grapefruit or grapefruit juice.

According to the Food and Drug Administration, consuming grapefruit while on one of these medications can lead to a higher concentration of the medication in the bloodstream and adverse side effects or even an overdose.

More than 85 drugs interact with grapefruit and some closely related citrus juices — like Seville oranges, pomelos, and tangelos. That’s because chemicals in grapefruit known as furanocoumarins inhibit CYP3A4, in a similar fashion as CBD. The result is a slowed metabolization of medications.”

Grapefruit warnings are common in several types of medications, but not all medications within a category will require the avoidance of grapefruit. Check your medication’s insert information or ask your doctor.”

I suppose we’d need to Google pet medications for that info since few would anticipate bunnies or ferrets eating grapefruit  😉

I love Sam’s fluffitude!!  I always thought Teddy was a Lionhead/Jersey Wooly mix too and only just learned he might be a “cinnamon Lionhead” (which I didn’t know was a thing; he came from a shelter).  🙂  Here are some photos — thank you so much for asking!  🙂

Awesome, thank you so much, Hazel!!  🙂  Your Sam’s photo is super adorable as well.  🙂  Yes, it took me a week to name Teddy and I was planning on some more dignified name but he looks just like a Teddy bear (especially the nose — same with Sam I bet!) and he has a very laid-back and comical personality, so I think it fits better than Aloysius or other fancy names I’d had in mind.  😉

Teddy was always more of a bunny’s bunny during the 9 years he had his BFF, Athena, with him, but he’s since opened up more to humans and lets us pet him more.  He even started (sometimes) letting me kiss him on the forehead!!!  I know I could never replace a bunny but try to do all I can to give him a form of grooming and companionship.

Thank you so much again — I so appreciate your suggestions and encouragement!  🙂

Thank you so much, everyone!  Teddy and I really appreciate it.  Bam, they really could be brothers!!  I almost thought you had posted a picture of Teddy.  I love the name Vilde!

DanaNM, hearing about Bun Jovi coming back from the bunny sitter’s house with lipstick all over him made my day.  😆  That’s the cutest!!  He sounds like a wonderful character.  🙂 🙂

Hazel, I can’t believe you had a bunny named Teddy too!  That’s amazing.  And yes, I have to be very careful in approaching Teddy (not that he’d bite, but he’d run away), since he can be skittish at times and even after 11 years together I’m still not great at reading his mood, unfortunately.  Even just for petting him I always ask “can I pet you a little?” in the same tone of voice, and hold my hand above him tentatively, and then wait for his response.  If he doesn’t feel like it, he’ll shift a bit and/or get ready to hop away as his “no thank you” signal, and then I won’t.  I’ve only tried forehead kisses a few times, and that’s just when he’s really relaxed, like with his chin on his paws.

Overnight Teddy had another episode of not eating, unfortunately.  🙁  He’s shedding and won’t let me brush him, so that could be part of it, and/or we just went down another tiny notch in our glacial-pace weaning of his cisapride a few days ago.  Thankfully when I offered full-dosage meds on a plate in the morning he ate them, and he’s been nibbling since.  If he doesn’t eat more very soon I’ll proceed with the rest of the stasis stuff.  He’s done this before in recent months/years and sometimes can bounce back in a day or two without needing too much intervention, if we go back to full dosage of meds and make sure he gets enough food.  So I’m not too worried about this episode yet, but I am wondering what if anything we could do to stop these episodes from happening.  Maybe he needs to stay on a pretty full dose of cisapride?  He always seems to take a step back like this at some point after going down another notch in the weaning process.  And we’ve tried weaning just about as slowly as humanly possible: like reducing by .02 CCs every 2 weeks or so till his poops have been normal for a while.  Have you seen this kind of thing before?

Thank you all so much again!!

Thank you so much, Hazel!  Haha that’s funny about Oscar’s grunts 😆  And I so appreciate your company in this.

Teddy has always been his own man and lets us know that he needs a strong sense of autonomy, haha.  He even doesn’t necessarily like being offered food (like if I put something in front of his face), except for his verrry favorite treats, because he doesn’t like being told what to do — he’ll sometimes wait till we’re gone to eat it. 😆  This makes me laugh because it reminds me of my brother when he was a kid: if we were out to dinner and someone else ordered what he wanted ahead of him, he would change his own order so as to be “independent”. 😉

And yes, it sure could be that!  Teddy gets regular simethicone these days since it’s what we mix his cisapride into to get him to eat that, and I gave him an extra dose of it this afternoon.  Then he had a nice nap and ate some pellets when he woke up.  I’m keeping a close eye to make sure he’s getting enough food, but so far so good (knock on wood).

But I wonder if anyone else has seen/heard of an elderbun who needs to stay on cisapride?  We just haven’t had any luck getting him off it this time, since April!  He can have a slightly smaller than normal dose, if we reduce it gradually, but that’s the most we can do.

Thank you so much, Hazel!!  Haha, that is totally him.

Unfortunately last night he stopped eating altogether so we started full treatments and then decided to take him to the vet today.  He hadn’t had bloodwork in almost a year so we thought it’d be good to check at this point.  Thankfully they found him pretty stable and the first round of bloodwork came back great!!  No liver or kidney issues, or any other concerns — the vet said he looked really good for a bun of his age.  We’re still waiting for the full panel to come back in another several days, but I’m really encouraged and sooo grateful for this good news so far!!  He may need stasis treatment for a while yet but it’s so reassuring to know there’s no new underlying problem that they could find so far.  He’s shedding now so it could be just all that extra fluff.  😉  (We brush him when we give him his treatments now, since he can’t escape.) 😉  Like my partner likes to say, he’s a strong bun!  😀

Those are good points — thank you so much, Hazel!  🙂

And I really like how you said that.  Not to jinx it, but he seems to be on the upswing already!  😀

p.s. Circling back to the CBD discussion in case others read this: I just read that there may be reason to avoid CBD while taking cisapride.  The Canadian Drugbank.ca says ” The risk or severity of adverse effects can be increased when Cannabidiol is combined with Cisapride.”  After more research online, it seems that what they’re referring to is a potentially serious heart arrhythmia called “torsades des pointes” that usually resolves on its own but *can* lead to cardiac arrest (!), and that this (uncommon) side effect is the reason cisapride was pulled from the human market (as I just read).  If I understood right, cisapride hasn’t been proven to incite torsades des pointes in rabbits except in those that already had heart failure (but that study was small: Kijtawornrat et al. 2006).  However, apparently CBD — and definitely grapefruit — can lead to higher levels of cisapride in the bloodstream than the patient would have otherwise, increasing the risk of adverse side effects, of which torsades des pointes would be a salient possible one.  So, though this is kind of a daisy chain of potential risks, it sounds concerning.

By the way, milk thistle, which is often given as a liver protectant, can have a similar effect in terms of raising levels of cisapride (and its risks).  Our vet prescribed it (in a lactulose compound as part of the stasis treatment) on the same order as the cisapride!  Anyway, I’m thinking I’ll ask our vet before resuming CBD alongside cisapride… though I really liked how it helped Teddy to drink more water and sleep better.  Man!  I’ll update after I’m able to talk with the vet.

Thank you so much, Kate!  You’re the best!!

I’m still waiting for a vet callback about the medicine interactions, but meanwhile some great news: the full panel of bloodwork came back normal!! 😀  Plus Teddy’s been eating much much better since last night.  We’re so grateful!!

Thank you so much, Hazel!!  🙂

I’ll be sure to share what the vet says once I hear from her.  Because we’re in the US, they can’t officially give any advice on CBD (apparently it’d have to be legalized at a federal level before the veterinary board would be able to incorporate it into standards of care) but I’m hoping to get at least some sort of information (though research is scarce).

Not to jinx it, but Teddy’s eating his greens so nicely now and some pellets too, we may be done with subq fluids now/soon, and then I’ll be back to the drawing board on how to get Teddy to drink water (if we can’t give CBD).  I wonder if anything else causes an increase in water intake without actually dehydrating?

Thank you soooo much, Kate!!  It makes me so happy to hear from you, and I so appreciate your kind encouragement and advice.

That’s great about your Zantac syrup!  Teddy’s always on meloxicam (due to spondylosis) so he’s always on famotidine too (now that we can’t get Zantac around here).  I think someone had commented that yes, famotidine can also have a synergistic effect with motility meds, though I’m not sure if it’s as much as Zantac’s.  The thing is, we haven’t had success weaning Teddy off cisapride since April.  It could be a coincidence, but he’s slowed or temporarily stopped eating each time we’ve attempted to taper it off — and that’s with the continuation of famotidine.  I’m not ruling out that it was a coincidence — we did wean verrrrrry slowly so there was plenty of time for coincidences in there.   Or maybe that’s just age per se, but it’s not like him to do that so often (every few weeks).

I’d never heard of cold laser therapy — so cool!  You’re right about the restrictions that covid and Teddy’s extra-strong car aversion bring.  But I found some not-too-crazy-priced home devices on Amazon.  I haven’t had time to sort through the reviews (which so far sound too good to be true) but will revert once I have a chance to do that.

Ollie’s mom, I didn’t know that meloxicam & CBD was that serious!  I’ve read mixed things in my search, and nothing as concrete as the cisapride thing.  If it weren’t for Teddy’s seeming to need cisapride perhaps chronically, I’d be tempted to experiment with CBD instead of meloxicam maybe.

I’m with you on wishing there were a safe way to give it!  Once I hear from the vet I’ll share what she says.

Hey everyone!  I finally got to talk with the vet today so I’m coming back to update. Short version: I’m not worrying about the milk thistle in this case, but am not sure when/if I will go back to CBD given the possible medication interactions.  Here are more details:

The vet explained that the milk thistle / lactulose compound they gave us has like 5% or less milk thistle, so the tiny amount is unlikely to be a problem.  Also, what research I could find indicated that while milk thistle could slow the liver enzymes that metabolize cisapride (mostly CYP3A4 , which is in the P450 family) in vitro, they actually haven’t found that in vivo.  In other words, in living beings, milk thistle doesn’t seem to have a big effect in terms of interfering with drugs (from what I understand — I’m not a physician).

There’s really not much known in terms of how CBD specifically affects cisapride in terms of side effects, so I just asked more about this arrhythmia issue re: cisapride.  The vet said she hasn’t known it to be a concern… she said they do sometimes administer cisapride prior to a surgery during which they have the bunny hooked up to an EKG.  And the dosage from that one study where the arrhythmia was induced in 2 bunnies that already had heart failure was 60% higher than what Teddy was prescribed.  My personal interpretation of this, pending any better research, is that it’s worth making sure we *really* need the CBD before resuming it.  But if it does seem really necessary, now or down the line, I wouldn’t totally rule it out (e.g., if it’s the only thing that keeps him drinking enough water, or out of stasis).

If it comes to that, I might try a much lower dosage of CBD than even the 1mg per day he had been getting.  I use it myself for my own chronic pain and I finally did the math to realize that a low dosage of 0.13mg per kg can be enough to make a difference for me (though .25mg per kg is a common dosage in humans).  Teddy is 1.5 kg, hehe, so that’d be really just 0.2mg per day (not 1mg), or 0.4 for the more common dosage — though admittedly I don’t know if it makes sense to try to convert dosages between species!  But if Teddy seems to really need CBD down the line, I’ll try mixing that 1 drop of hemp oil (which in the version we have has 1mg CBD) into like a teaspoon of pellets again, but then split those pellets into 5 servings, and see if 1 serving a day is enough.  If not, I’ll try 2 servings a day.  (If we do decide to cross that bridge, that is.)

Meanwhile, I’ll try one more time to tempt him with a little pineapple juice in his water bowl (fruit juice has had no appeal for him so far, though), and we’ll see how he does with that once he’s off fluids.  I asked the vet if anything else promotes drinking without dehydrating, but she said there had been no research on dry mouth in bunnies that she knew of. 😉  Haha, guess that makes sense!

Thank you all so much again!!  🙂

p.s. I might re-post the CBD info in a separate thread sometime soon, since the potential medication interaction issues don’t appear here until rather further down from the part where I first discussed our good experience with it.

Thank you so much, Hazel!!  I’m totally with you on that, and hope that more research is allowed soon.  Caution is good, but that much just isn’t warranted in this case.

But wonder of wonders, Teddy is drinking water on his own!  He seems recovered now, knock on wood!  😀  So I haven’t tried the pineapple juice yet.  And although he isn’t sleeping as soundly as he did on CBD, he seems pretty happy, so we’ll just hold for now (he’s off milk thistle/lactulose so now just seeing how much tapering of cisapride we can get away with, while keeping the meloxicam and famotidine which he’s on chronically, and the simethicone as the trojan horse for his cisapride).  😉

Thank you so much again!!  🙂