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Forum BONDING Fighting after all going to vet together

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    • Sirius&Luna
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        As some of you may have seen on instagram, Atlas was recently admitted to the vet for stasis. Happily, he is now fully recovered. 

        Not so happily, the buns have been fighting. They all went to the vet together, and were kept together apart from the first night where they could still see and touch but Atlas was separated for food and poop monitoring. They were put back in together on Monday morning and were apparently completely fine and happy. However, when I went to collect them on Tuesday evening, they told me that they’d had to separate one bunny, who had caused a scuffle. Now, I totally expected this to be Luna, so imagine my shock when little Atlas is in a separate carrier 

        So, Nimbus and Luna travelled home in the carrier together, during which time they were absolutely fine. When we got home, I released all three into the bunny room together (which hadn’t been cleaned), and all was fine. Then about two hours later (after all three buns being together and getting on fine), Luna and Atlas were suddenly scuffling. Both had tufts pulled but no blood. I separated them. Then tried Luna and Nimbus and she lunged for him (but only after the Atlas fight… before that she was totally fine with him). Then tried Nimbus and Atlas, who were fine, although there was a little unsurety – like running away from each other when the other didn’t seem to have aggressive intentions.

        SO, I’ve put Luna in the big hutch (which has glass walls, so they can see but not bite) and left the boys out in the room for now… I definitely witnessed some aggressive behaviour through the walls – like wandering up and down watching each other)

        Atlas still smells quite strongly of medicine and is still having medicine. But that doesn’t explain why Luna is being aggressive to Nimbus too.

        I don’t know what to do  I’m so upset, I worked so hard to bond them. It feels pointless if every time one gets sick this happens and we have to go through a whole rebonding process. I also feel bad that I stressed Luna and Nimbus out with the vet if their bond was gonna break anyway…

        What do I do from here?


      • sarahthegemini
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          Oh Portia, I cannot believe this

          Were you able to see who started the scuffle at home between At and Luna? My only thought is maybe Luna started acting out because of Atlas’ medicinal smell, maybe she thought he was still poorly and wanted to distance herself? Idk. Maybe she then lunged for Nim because she was worked up? It doesn’t really add up tho if At is the one that started the scuffle with Luna. I’m so sad to hear this and I cannot think why At would have started fighting at the vets. Hmm, maybe he smelt other rabbits?

          I can really understand your worry about the risk of them fighting when one gets poorly. I don’t think you should feel bad about stressing Nim and Luna tho. If you hadn’t taken them all, they might have fought a lot worse on reintroduction.

          I hope Dana chimes in. I consider her THE expert ?


        • Sirius&Luna
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            Yeah, I was wondering about smelling other rabbits at the vet. The nurse did say it’s not uncommon, but I thought taking them together would prevent it, and it’s weird that it only happened on the last afternoon.

            I didn’t see what started the fight :/ to be honest, I watched them for about an hour then decided that the nurse was exaggerating because she didn’t know my bunnies and they seemed to be getting on as usual i just heard a terrible commotion and ran in.

            I also caught Luna sneezing a few times yesterday evening, and the nurse said to keep an eye on Atlas who had sneezed a few times… So I also wonder if they all caught something at the vet :/ Last time Luna and Atlas had a fight after being bonded it was just before Luna started showing stasis signs. So I really hope it’s not because she’s ill too now…

            At least I have a new flat full of neutral space haha


          • Sirius&Luna
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              Also, they’ve been to the vet together before for vaccinations, and didn’t have any problems. And stayed in different places all together. So it’s something to do with either the illness or other animals I’m guessing.


            • Asriel and Bombur
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                I would assume it’s probably either to do with overnighting it there with other animals and their smells. So odd that Atlas started the issues, he’s so chill! That’s a bummer they could all be sick too!

                I wished I could offer advice, but sadly only support. Hang in there friend! Like Sarah, Dana is THE expert on bonding. I defer all to her in that area xD


              • DanaNM
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                  I’m so sorry, this must be so frustrating!

                  I’m guessing it was a combo of being in a weird place (with lots of weird new smells, maybe even other bunnies around), combined with Atlas being sick, and maybe even him smelling weird from his medicine. Hard to know what goes on in those tiny bunny brains…. any one of those things could trigger some bond upset. I don’t have any experience with trios, but my sense is that they are slightly more prone to upsets if one anything changes with one bun. Illness in general can disrupt bonds, so I’m guessing that’s why Atlas was the instigator. I think given that Luna and Atlas’s bond broke when Nimbus was brought home means that they are just a bit more sensitive to smells, etc.

                  I’ll chat with my local rescue contacts and see if they have any words of wisdom. They tend to not be too fussed about separating bunnies when one is ill or one needs to go to the vet, and said usually when there is a hiccup upon reuniting them it gets resolved pretty quickly, so hopefully with some sessions your three can sort out their issues.

                  In this case, I think I wait till Atlas is 100% back to normal and off his medications, and then try re-marathoning them when you have time. I’m wondering if a slightly different strategy might help their bond be more resilient in the future. I think in the past you mostly bonded them in one or two locations? If I remember correctly? I’m wondering if you could build a more resilient bond by holding sessions in multiple neutral locations, possibly with some distractions and other smells? I’m going out on a limb here, I am not sure if this makes a difference at all, but I do think bonds can be made to exist in one place, or they can be made to exist regardless of place. Due to my lack of space, I’ve always ended up using shelter pens, friend’s houses, my office, etc, for bonding, and it seems like my two seem closer whenever we go to a new location. I think that may be because their bond was forged in lots of strange places. Do you have any alternative areas you could experiment with to see how they are in different spaces? Again, this is going out on a limb here…

                  I see that you mentioned they have stayed in different places together, but I’m guessing the vet was just extra confusing. Atlas probably reacted because maybe he was being treated differently by the others? Hard to say since you didn’t see the initial scuffle.

                  Like others have said, hang in there. Thankfully no bun got hurt, so hopefully they will be reunited again soon!

                  . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                • Sirius&Luna
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                    Yeah, I fear that Luna in particular is more prone to upsets. It really looks like she gets scared and then lashes out to me (but whyyyy. she’s never had a bad experience in her lovely life!) It was Luna that instigated the break up when Nim arrived

                    Atlas can definitely be irritating to Luna though. He pretty regularly does that mating circles thing, where he runs round and round her in circles until she gets annoyed and tells him to go away, but it never usually escalates beyond that. I did wonder at one point whether maybe he hadn’t been entirely neutered, but the vets are very experienced and didn’t mention it. I decided he was probably just annoying

                    It has made me question their bond altogether, but i KNOW that they were very happy, and I spent many hours watching to make sure that no one was being left out. They hung out as a trio (eating, lounging, exploring), but also all did thing in all the various combinations of pairs, so I think they do and can work as a group. Luna and Atlas like to explore more than Nimbus, Luna and Nimbus like to cuddle more than Atlas, and Atlas and Nimbus are more energetic than Luna in general. So they can all get on. Now I have space, I wouldn’t be opposed to getting more, but I don’t think it’s necessary.

                    Since we’ve just moved flat too, I wonder if that was an extra issue? We’ve been there for just over a month, but maybe they were feeling a bit wobbly because of that…

                    Anyway, those were just extra thoughts since I’ve been thinking about this a lot.

                    Thanks for your input Dana!

                    I like the idea of bonding in lots of places. There’s some neutral spots in the new flat, communal corridors (might as well let the new neighbours know I’m a crazy rabbit lady sooner rather than later) and there’s a large fenced in garden area that I could set them up in a pen in. I could also take them to my parent’s house/garden. They were entirely bonded in our not especially neutral old flat, so maybe that could be a problem.

                    I’ll try introducing other things, but my gut feeling is that Luna lashes out when she feels scared rather than turning to the boys for support.

                    Would love to hear if the shelter has any advice though.


                  • sarahthegemini
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                      Ah yes maybe the move shook things up a bit too – when I moved, after about two weeks I think? Peanut and Buttercup had a bit of a scuffle. I woke up to some chasing and Peanut trying to hump Buttercup. A bit of grunting from her as she was angry! The only trigger I could think of was the new environment. So it wouldn’t be crazy to think the move may have played a part. It’s probably lots of things that have contributed rather than one solid event – the move, At being poorly, the vets, Luna being scared, At smelling different etc.


                    • Q8bunny
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                        From my experience, buns (even bond mates) will often pick on a bun who is or has been poorly. So that, in conjunction with the foreign scents at the vet’s, probably triggered the scuffles and animosity.

                        Take a look at the puffitails Insta account – they’ve just gone through the same thing and were posting steps they’ve taken. xo


                      • Sirius&Luna
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                          Thanks Q8, I have had a look at puffytails. They’re such a cute trio!

                          I haven’t really made any progress, but to be honest, I haven’t had much time this week. I’m going to try a chunk of time this weekend.

                          From the couple of short sessions I’ve done, Luna seems to be mostly fine with Nimbus, but definitely starts nipping Atlas’s butt a lot, and then he retaliates. I think Nimbus just doesn’t retaliate at all so nothing ever escalates with him. Nimbus and Atlas both still groom Luna, and she’s fine with that, so we’re definitely not starting from zero. She also let them sniff and hop around her without any lunging while I was lying on the floor petting her.


                        • Kathie
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                            My pair is bonded but the female always nips at the males butt. Otherwise she is nice to him. He is neutered she is not as vet wont do till she is 6 mo old


                          • Q8bunny
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                              Chany on Insta was notorious for love bites of her husbun’s bum (Tiffo). But there’re nips, and nips…

                              Definitely not starting from zero, S&L, and definitely wise to wait until you have time. Especially since buns can read us, and our being relaxed during the process is a huge positive contributing factor.

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                          Forum BONDING Fighting after all going to vet together