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The subject of intentional breeding or meat rabbits is prohibited. The answers provided on this board are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet.  It is your responsibility to assess the information being given and seek professional advice/second opinion from your veterinarian and/or qualified behaviorist.

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Forum BEHAVIOR Litter Training with New Rescue

  • This topic has 5sd replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 6 years ago by Bam.
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    • Lindsey S.
      Participant
      4 posts Send Private Message

        Hi all! I hope this isn’t a double post, if so, please delete my other post. I’d prefer to keep this one as I’m putting extra effort into it.

        I am new to the forum, but not very new to bunnies. I have two bonded sisters and have had them since April. I had a rabbit for a year prior that unfortunately died from dental abscesses after several surgeries and a lot of love. I am also a volunteer adoption counselor at a local rabbit rescue. I did not intend to adopt any other rabbits (I have 6 other pets), but came across an ad on Craigslist to adopt a 1 year old English Lop and fell in love with his pictures.

        I adopted Felix Sunday. He is fairly underweight at about 8 pounds and is very picky with food so I’m worried about his ability to gain weight. I immediately brought him in for a checkup with a local vet that I haven’t been to before (our usual exotic vet was booked until Friday). I wanted to get an idea of why his weight was so low (I am unaware of his prior life, the person that adopted him out to me picked him up at an auction and had only had him for 4 weeks) and what I could do to help him. I was also hoping to just get a general idea of his health. Unfortunately, the veterinarian had to be called in for an emergency and I only got about 5 minutes of appointment time with her. I found out his weight, that he hadn’t been neutered (contrary to the person’s statement when I adopted him), and that his ears were surprisingly healthy given his weight and general looks (he had a lot of poop stuck to his tail and side and had red food coloring all over his foot – the person explained that he got into food coloring under her care?). Otherwise, I have no idea on his health. I do have a pre-surgery checkup Friday with our normal vet. I believe he is likely too underweight for surgery. I will trust her advice. Hopefully I can get more information then.

        Okay, on to litter issue. When I brought Felix home, I placed him in an x-pen in my bedroom with a litter box with hay, a water bowl, a bowl with Oxbow pellets, and some fresh greens. He has never used his litter box since coming home Sunday. He was peeing everywhere but his litter box… He will jump into the box and then jump out specifically to pee and poop outside the box. He is not in a room with the girl rabbits, so it seems odd that he would be marking his territory, but it is possible. However, it seems odd that he won’t use the litter box in addition to outside of the box. I have since narrowed his space in the x-pen and placed 2 additional litter boxes inside giving him very little space outside the litter boxes. I put a soiled towel in one box and continue to place all poop in the boxes. He is still managing to only pee & poop outside of the boxes. Now he is laying in the area he is peeing in. The litter pans are quite large and have more than enough space for him. I am at a loss for what to do.

        My husband wasn’t 100% on adopting another pet. I talked him into it and this is complicating the situation. My husband seems really frustrated and it is understandable. I’m doing my absolute best to clean after Felix several times a day, but it is still a mess. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

        Some additional thoughts:

        • Felix is very picky with food. He eats pellets and some greens reluctantly, but that is about it. He has constant access to hay but has eaten very little since coming home. He has several types of hay – timothy (mostly), oat, and orchard. Maybe his distaste(?) for the hay is making him not use the litter box? It still seems odd that he jumps into them, doesn’t eat hay, and doesn’t use the litter boxes.
        • Felix’s pee seems to be a full bladder amount each time he pees. It covers a broad area and is not dribbling. For that reason, I doubt it is a UTI. But maybe?
        • Felix does not pee in the same area each time. Before I put in the extra litter boxes, he peed and pooped nearly everywhere that was not the litter box. I tried moving the litter box around, he peed in the area where the litter box was…. super frustrating.
        • I’m optimistic things will get better after he is neutered, but I’m unaware of how long that will take before he can be neutered and I’d like to find a partial solution at least before then.

        I’m concerned about his well being because of these issues and also his health because of constantly laying in his own urine. I’m frustrated with trying so hard to get him to use the litter. We just bought a new house and are about to move. The pets will all have more space, but my husband is concerned that Felix won’t litter train and will pee all over the house. He seems very sad cooped up in the x-pen. But I don’t know what to do while he is continuing to pee everywhere. If it were just poop, I wouldn’t mind as much. But we are concerned about flooring being ruined with his pee. No worries about us getting rid of him. When I take pets in, it is for life. But I would really like a solution for this for our sanity and his health. Any ideas?


        Bonus picture because he is adorbs.

         


      • DanaNM
        Moderator
        9054 posts Send Private Message

          Thank you for rescuing him, and also he is SO STINKING CUTE! Omg….

          Ok on to the actual issues…. it’s weird, there’s another thread right now where the member is having a similar problem, where the bun pees everywhere except the box!

          As you suspected, I think it’s important to rule out medical issues, especially since his eating habits are not great. Another member’s bun Wick has dental issues, and his box habits go out the window when he needs his teeth filed down. Since your vet didn’t have time to do a thorough exam, I think this should be your next step. I also had a bunny, Moose, with terrible teeth (molars that would rot and fall out ), and he also tended to pee all over when he was in pain. It was a large amount each time. He also drank tons of water to soothe the pain… So yeah, check out the teeth!

          In the meantime, it might help to start by removing the box, line the pen it with puppy pee pads, and see if he starts to use one corner over the others. It can take buns a few days to a week to decide which area they want their box in, and it can help to let them choose. Since he is not neutered, he might not improve until he gets neutered, but I would think he would at least mostly use one area….

          Some people have also had a lot of success using carefresh bedding when litter training. It’s soft and fluffy, so buns seem to like it more than just hay or pine pellets.

          . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


        • Lindsey S.
          Participant
          4 posts Send Private Message

            Okay, so a vet visit ruled out dental issues. He has a very slightly overgrown molar that they are shaving down when he’s neutered on the first. I’m very happy to hear he isn’t sick, but puzzled about his litter habits.

            I ordered pee pads, they come in Monday. In the meantime, I’ve been using a while blanket that I wash every day and put down a new one. He pees everywhere… there is no particular spot. He pees everywhere to the point where he has nowhere to lay but in his own pee. It’s a large x-pen. But he runs out of space that he hasn’t peed in.

            I’m hoping this gets better after he has been neutered. My husband is really upset at the lack of behavior that we can be optimistic about.

            I love him. To justify taking him in and covering vet bills, I sold one of my favorite things. Which is totally fine. But I’m going to be really upset if his presence bothers my husband. I need to find a way to sort this out.

            He’s also still unwilling to eat hay. The vet believes he was never given hay before. I now have 3 varieties of bunny friendly hay available in his pen and he’s eaten 1 piece all day.

            Any guidance?


          • DanaNM
            Moderator
            9054 posts Send Private Message

              Hopefully the neuter improves things. I’ve also heard that when rabbits are cage bound they tend to have no litter box habits. Given his history, that could be a definite possibility, but again, hopefully that will improve with his neuter and time?

              Regarding the hay, that is concerning. Assuming he’s pooping ok? And the vet didn’t suspect anything that would warrant blood work?

              I know some members have had success with the Oxbow hay stacks for picky buns, or even the compressed hay cubes. Oat hay can also be great for buns that won’t eat their hay. Mine also will eat more hay when it’s handled and I put it in front of their faces. Since he might have never had hay, it will probably take him a while to develop a taste for it. I wonder if some fresh grass might help him learn to love it? You prob already know this because you are not new to bunnies, but reducing his pellets might help too, if he’s getting a lot currently.

              There is a similar thread right now with another member (with the litter training anyway), that has had some good advice there, even though the situation is a bit different (specifically Wick’s tips): https://binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/aft/169514/Default.aspx

              . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


            • jerseygirl
              Moderator
              22345 posts Send Private Message

                Welcome Lindsey. : ) Felix sure is cute! Fingers crossed the neuter helps turn thing around.

                Since he wasn’t desexed when you were told he was, do you think his age could be incorrect also. Perhaps he is younger and in the throws of bun puberty! That would explain weight also. Or the opposite, could he be much older then 1yr old??
                Did your regular vet have an idea?

                So you’ve used the blanket to line the pen from the get-go? I know this will sound counter-productive but could you try him on non-absorbant flooring to see it that makes a difference? It may be the absorbant surface he is attracted to peeing on.. Would a bathroom or laundry work? If you do have him on tile or lino, I’d check to see he’s not trying to drink his pee or eat the poop. That could point to him being in less then ideal circumstances at one time.
                If it’s just as chaotic, I’d go with the puppy pee pads as Dana suggested. Until after he’s neutered. 

                You’d mentioned poop stuck to the tail when you first picked him up. Has that improved at all? Are his poops the right consistency?  

                It’s very possible the overgrown molar is behind his avoidance of eating hay. Do you get really short, fine hay at bottom of the bag/box? You could offer a bowl and see whether he will try that at least. Even make it into some hay cookies or a hay mash with some purreed fruit.

                And the vet didn’t suspect anything that would warrant blood work?

                I had this question also. If you have concerns about his weight, it may pay to have pre-anaesthetic bloodwork done to check his liver values. It *may* also give any indication if there is something going on with the kidneys.


              • Bam
                Moderator
                16964 posts Send Private Message

                  Blood work is often good because rabbits are so extremely good at hiding disease and blood tests can provide lots of good intel. I personally would have liked to have liver and kidney function checked. Both liver and kidney problems can result in poor appetite and weight loss.

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              Forum BEHAVIOR Litter Training with New Rescue