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› FORUM › HOUSE RABBIT Q & A › How do I know when my elderbun is just sick and when it’s her time?
Hey all! This has been such a supportive and literally lifesaving community for many years, and I’m so grateful. My two beloved bunny friends, Athena (10, Dutch/Lionhead mix) and Teddy (9, smaller Lionhead/fluffy??? mix) are my first and only bunnies, and I’m so grateful for all your kind and generous guidance.
So here’s a tough question. I love my bunnies SOOO much and would spare no effort or expense to keep them happy and healthy. At the same time, for me, loving them means not wanting to put them through too much drawn-out medical intervention if their quality of life would be questionable. I don’t want to torment them just because *I* want them to stay; I want to respect when it’s their time.
But how will I know? I’ve never had bunnies before so I don’t know what the end of the road typically looks like. I certainly don’t want to under-treat them if they just have a reversible illness, like GI stasis — I want to keep them as healthy as possible! But whenever their final days naturally come (it’s hard to type this without tearing up), I’d want it to be a gentle, calm time for them, and not too stressful if possible. They’re both very shy and nervous buns and they HATE going in the car — in fact, the last two times I’ve brought them to the vet ’cause one was sick, the other one stopped eating too afterwards — so trekking almost an hour away to the bunny vet is a big stressor for them, and I think hard before doing it.
In the past few months Athena’s been taking a lot more naps, and likes to cuddle along a wall behind one of their bunny houses, where she can tuck herself behind a tablecloth that’s hanging over there. She seems comfortable and contented whenever she does this, so it hasn’t worried me. She’s also been on a *mammoth* shed for like a month that she seems to be alllmost done with. More than ever before, though somehow she still has plenty of fur left. (;
But last night she suddenly stopped eating (she ate hay like normal, and then a few hours later refused treats and greens) and she’s been hanging out in unusual places. She still won’t eat voluntarily, though she has been drinking water. I started her on the standard GI stasis treatments (Meloxicam, Reglan, sub-Q fluids, Critical Care, simethicone) and she accepts it, but her energy levels are only medium.
I’m hopeful that this is just routine stasis and that she’ll bounce back soon. We have a vet appointment tomorrow in case we need it. But I still wanted to ask this question because I love her so much and I want to make sure I do the right thing by her. And Teddy — he’s had two bouts of stasis in the past 6 months, which is more than usual. I don’t know what to expect and I would be grateful for any light you can shed on caring for elderbuns.
Thank you so much. I’m mindful that tons of veterinary intervention would assuage my neurotic human conscience, but may not be the best thing for the bunnies. But I don’t know how to recognize when to keep fighting for them and when to let go.
p.s. I’m not giving up hope — I keep telling myself they are both going to make it to 13!
But I would love some help knowing what a natural end of the road looks like so I don’t get confused.
I just wanted to mention, gut drugs shouldn’t be used until an X-rays is done to prevent the intestines rupturing. Even if you think it’s the regular stasis bout.
I haven’t had elder buns but I’ve had very very sick buns so I can try to relate.
As far as timing, it’s always hard to say. As long as they keep fighting during an illness then keep going through with the treatment. The vet will also say that they think it’s time with all the work being put in and they aren’t getting better. Trust me, I’ve had close calls where In a day it was life or death but he kept fighting until the end. You have to trust your bunparent instincts and do what you know is right, not what you want.
Of course with older age, diets need to be customized for them, the vet should know exactly what to feed, and of course hay is the most important to keep the gut going. Have they had blood tests done to make sure everything is functioning right?
I hope they make it that far! The ages they are at now are great ![]()
How can you tell if they’re still fighting?
Oh, this is a hard one and I completely understand. My own thoughts have turned to this a lot lately. With elderly rabbits, there is no escaping the fact that it is inevitable they have more limited time with us.
My own are all over the age of 6 now. The eldest being Rumball who turns 12 in November. His bondmate is a large breed her actual age is unknown, but she is over 8 at least.
I think it comes down to constantly assessing quality of life day by day or during an illness. One thing I have learnt is they can be quite resilient! With my 5, Ive become more hesitant to take them off to the vet as Ive been fearful about how’d they’d go if needed a procedure. Surgery, tooth trims etc. But there are different approaches and the vet is aware of age and added risks. My own fears have really overshadowed reality.
I had a good outcome recently with Rumball and infection in his ear. He coped so well and so far, things have resolved. Prior to taking him, I had let my mind think there was abscess getting into his bone and he’d need surgery like one of my other buns had one time. I couldn’t see him living through that. But ear drops and some injections into the lump actually allowed me to get a heap of gunk out and get things under control. No surgery required.
I think what you describe with Athena could just as easily happen with a younger rabbit around moulting time. They tend to be a bit “off” around this. Is she still toileting? I do think it worthwhile having her checked over, just in case.
Do you have vet nearby that will do home visits? I have a vague recollection of you being able to do that once before.
I definitely see random days where a bun is just not showing much of an appetite for certain things. I’ll then see much later on, them eating some hay and being more alert.
The HRS gives this info when assessing quality of life: the 3 A’s: Appetite, Affection, Attitude.
http://rabbit.org/quality-of-life/
You might like to look over this article also: http://rabbit.org/end-of-life/
It has some additional links at the end of article.
Have faith in yourself that you will know when it is time. The above articles give some guidance but things like appetite and attitude can vary rabbit to rabbit. You know your buns the best. You will know…
Ive only had to have one put to sleep and he wasn’t even 2, but I knew it was at point of no return. In hindsight, I do wish I had done some other things earlier on that *may* have helped, but the moment I made decision about letting him go, I know was right by that time. It really came down to assesing things day by day, moment by moment, for him. ETA: Im realising that doesn’t really apply to your question about “when is it age v’s when is it illness”. Sorry. My own approach would be to attempt to “treat” the symptoms first, to best of my ability. But keep assessing whether it is helping.
Sending lots of love and healing vibes for Athena and Tony. xx
One thing i have noticed about elderly bunnies is that they seem much more receptive to cuddles. Something I have been taking advantage of.
Thank you sooo much, Jerseygirl!! I so appreciate your help now and all these years too.
The links and advice you gave are really helpful; thank you. And I totally hear you about my own fears overshadowing reality!! I have gotten ahead of myself soooo many times with these two.
Athena seems really bad off right now. I got up before dawn to try to give her some simethicone, Critical Care, and sub-Q fluids, but she wouldn’t even swallow the simethicone (which both bunnies usually eat willingly from the oral syringe). I’ve never seen that before. So I just gave her the fluids. She sat on my chest for a long while, breathing slowly. When I put her down she didn’t stomp and run away; she just stayed lying down exactly where I put her. Teddy wasn’t showing interest so I hung out on the floor with her so she wouldn’t be alone. Then when he came a bit closer I got up and moved to the next room so that he would feel free to come snuggle with her. He did come over and give her a few kisses on her back but she doesn’t seem to respond to either him or me; she just kind of stays still, eyes open and breath slow. Just now she moved like 2 feet and is sitting there in sphynx pose while Teddy munches on greens a few feet away. Even now I am second-guessing myself on whether I should give them some space, so as not to prevent them from snuggling if they want, and so as not to stress her out with atypical behavior from me — or to go hang out next to her so she doesn’t feel alone.
Our vet appt is at 5pm, and when the office opens in 2 hours I will call and see if we can get an earlier slot or if any of their vets can make a housecall. In the past I have tried that, but never found anyone who’s available to come out sooner than like a week away. I also suspect they would say she needed an X-ray to be properly diagnosed.
Athena seems to have 0/3 of the As mentioned in the articles you linked so I’m going to go back to hanging out with her and wondering if that is the right thing… If anyone has advice (beyond of course trying the vet asap) for this situation that’d be great!
Thank you so much again.
Update: bringing the bunnies to the vet right now so Athena can be seen as an emergency.
{{{Athena, Teddy, Meg}}}
Keep us updated ((((vibes for all of them))))
((((((((((Athena, Teddy, Meg))))))))))
Well done jerseygirl. Such a thorough response. It would be hard to add anything of value. It was put to me as:
1. Appetite
2. Interest in their surroundings/environment
3. Desire or interest in giving/receiving affection
Every end of life circumstance is relatively unique. You will know better than anyone else. It’s so awesome that they have lived this long. Many BB members aren’t so lucky. Our little girl almost made it to 8 years…
Anyhow I hope for you that Athena gets better and you have more time. As much time as possible.
Thank you so much, everyone!! We just got back from the vet, where she got X-rays and bloodwork.
The good news is she’s still with us right now. But her GI tract is super distended and she’s pretty uncomfortable, so they’re giving her stronger pain meds. And her kidney and liver numbers are looking pretty bad, poor sweetie.
The vet said her prognosis is “guarded” (worse than fair but better than poor). They gave us more meds (pain meds, both Cisapride and Reglan, and a lactulose / milk thistle solution, and saline solution to give subQ instead of lactated ringer’s. Fingers crossed the meds will help and if so we will bring her back to get her blood checked again in a week. Meanwhile they’re sending it out for further lab analysis, to look for other signs of disease.
I’m pretty wiped at the moment (got 3 hours of sleep) so my emotions are probably muted, but I’m feeling relieved that she’s still here. And cautiously hopeful that she might be able to get better.
Teddy was a hero and stuck by her in the carrier, and is now nibbling some hay which reassures me. : )
Thank you all for your help and encouragement. I know we’re very lucky to have had two such happy and healthy bunnies for this long. Other than occasional stasis (scary as that can be), they haven’t had any issues before now, thankfully, and have seemed very happy, with flops, binkies, and “double kisses” (when they both groom each other’s shoulder at the same time).
Thanks for the update. Keep us posted.
poor thing, I know how you feel. Make sure to watch her for signs of pain as reglan and cisapride used together can cause major cramping (my guy was on it for a day and had to take him off the reglan since the cramping got so bad).
(((vibes)))
Oh my goodness, oh no!!!
She’s already in pain and I definitely don’t want to add to it. Now I am freaked out!!
But she is starting to poop (pretty normal poops, surprisingly) so I’m glad about that part.
Guys, I see tiny but distinct signs of hope!!
Teddy started grooming her nicely, and then she started taking some tiny nibbles of dried willow leaf!!! (She has parked herself in front of the willow wreath from the BinkyBunny store.
I am overjoyed at this. And she seems to be in less pain now, and responds better to affection. Her eyes aren’t so wide open, she leans into my hand a little when I pet her sometimes, and I think she even does some mini-versions of her happy tooth-grinding! She seems to be starting to get some of her As back…
She’s always been a champion eater and very affectionate little love.
She’s still not moving a lot, and when she does she still looks uncomfortable. But I’m thrilled to see her going in the right direction, even if just little by little!!
((((((((((Athena))))))))))
Thanks, guys! So I think around 6-7pm this evening, right before I last wrote, was kind of a high point — I haven’t seen Athena nibble anything else since then, and she hasn’t seemed as relaxed, and Teddy hasn’t groomed her again (that I’ve seen). She still seems pretty uncomfortable — she moves very little, and very awkwardly, poor sweetness. She really didn’t want to take any oral meds; I barely got the Rx ones in and then thankfully they’d given us some injectable versions for the first day or so.
It’ll be hard to sleep tonight and not want to check on her constantly. But of course I don’t want to stress her out either.
Thank you for your good vibes; they are much appreciated.
Posted By Meg on 9/14/2018 6:09 PM
Guys, I see tiny but distinct signs of hope!!
Teddy started grooming her nicely, and then she started taking some tiny nibbles of dried willow leaf!!! (She has parked herself in front of the willow wreath from the BinkyBunny store.
![]()
I am overjoyed at this. And she seems to be in less pain now, and responds better to affection. Her eyes aren’t so wide open, she leans into my hand a little when I pet her sometimes, and I think she even does some mini-versions of her happy tooth-grinding! She seems to be starting to get some of her As back…
![]()
She’s always been a champion eater and very affectionate little love.
She’s still not moving a lot, and when she does she still looks uncomfortable. But I’m thrilled to see her going in the right direction, even if just little by little!!
Oh this is good. Those poops she did must have had her feeling more comfortable.
Posted By Meg on 9/14/2018 10:40 PM
Thanks, guys! So I think around 6-7pm this evening, right before I last wrote, was kind of a high point — I haven’t seen Athena nibble anything else since then, and she hasn’t seemed as relaxed, and Teddy hasn’t groomed her again (that I’ve seen). She still seems pretty uncomfortable — she moves very little, and very awkwardly, poor sweetness. She really didn’t want to take any oral meds; I barely got the Rx ones in and then thankfully they’d given us some injectable versions for the first day or so.
It’ll be hard to sleep tonight and not want to check on her constantly. But of course I don’t want to stress her out either.
Thank you for your good vibes; they are much appreciated.
Did the xray show her tract was distended with a lot of gas?
You could continue to give simethicone in the hope it relieves some of that. Did they give her an additional shot of pain med?
ETA: I was just looking over one of your older threads about her. She seemed to eat some dill and dried flowers when her appetite was off another time. Something to try?
Thank you, JerseyGirl.
Athena passed away this morning, shortly after I got up. ((tears))
When I got up she was sitting, still in sphynx mode and looking uncomfortable, but nose twitching, and Teddy nearby. I pet her.
Then about 15 minutes later her head was down, on her chin, kind of like how she used to like to relax when she was napping. But the vet had said that that would be a bad sign, if she didn’t hold her head up. So I pet her again and then went to get her pain medicine ready. I thought I’d give it even though it’d be 2 hours ahead of schedule and then call the vet. But then when I went to pick her up, she was gone.
I’m heartbroken, more than I can say. I’ve cried all morning and I know I have a lot more crying to do.
But I’m also grateful that she went peacefully and didn’t suffer too long. And that she had such a happy, healthy life up until a few days ago.
I’ve never been through this before with bunnies and I’m wondering what we can do for Teddy. He stayed in the corner, facing the wall, for a while. Then he came out, went past her without really stopping for more than a second, and went to his favorite hidey spot. He groomed himself a little, and nibbled a tiny bit of hay/flowers, so he actually does not seem quite as distressed at the moment as I had feared. But he hasn’t been eating as much the past couple days that she’s been ill, probably from the stress. I wonder if there’s anything we can do to comfort him. (She was my cuddle bun and he’s always been pretty cagey about being petted by humans.)
(Looking down the road, I’ve known for a long time that I want these two beloved bunnies to be my only bunnies, and I would not get more. But my boyfriend has a cuddly cat and we were planning to move in together soon, so my hope is that the cat can be Teddy’s friend? I don’t know — it breaks my heart to even think about it and I’m not ready to go there right now.)
Still, any advice about how to comfort Teddy today and in the next few days would be very appreciated.
Thank you so much.
p.s. To answer your questions:
Yes, it did show that.
I tried giving her simethicone but I couldn’t. For the first time, she wouldn’t swallow even the yummy medicines, starting yesterday. It was all I could do to put the Rx ones in her mouth and then hope that she would eventually swallow some. I couldn’t get the simethicone or anything else down.
They did give her additional shots of pain meds and also injectable Reglan, so she got those last night along with the fluids.
I did try offering her everything she likes, including dried flowers, etc., and she refused all of it except for that one golden hour yesterday evening when Teddy groomed her and she nibbled a bit of willow leaf. That was also her favorite.
Thank you again.
I’m so sorry
Teddy likely knew something was up before you did, and since he had time with the body he will hopefully handle it ok. Try to spend extra time with him, even if it’s not cuddling, and monitor his appetite and poops. He will probably be more quiet than usual, but hopefully you will be able to comfort each other as you grieve together.
He also might like a stuffy to snuggle with, just be sure he doesn’t chew it.
Again I’m so so sorry
((Binky free Athena))
. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
Thank you so much, DanaNM.
Yes, Teddy had a 5-day bout of stasis about 4 weeks ago. Maybe that was when Athena’s liver and kidneys were starting to fail and we didn’t know. He also had a 1-day slowdown last weekend so yes, maybe he did know before we did. Poor little bun.
The irony being that that whole time Athena was eating like a champion, and we were only worried about him.
I am grateful that when the time came the bunnies were together. Although he wasn’t snuggling her, he was like 2 feet away and I’m glad that he could have if he wanted to. I’m glad we were at home.
The buns have had a couple of plush bunny toys for many years, and I will keep everything as it was. And definitely try to spend more time with Teddy to the extent he will let me.
I’ll be sure to keep an eye on his eating/pooping. He undeniably hasn’t been eating as much the past few days, just nibbling on this and that. I don’t know how aggressive to be on that at this point.
Thank you again.
I am so sorry. I know you tried everything, and sometimes we just can’t overrule and nature takes over.
He probably knew too. Letting him spend as much time with her as he needs can help. But make sure to watch him closely as my girl got very depressed after a couple of days and went into stasis so maybe feeding him critcal care for the next few days can keep his tract moving Incase he starts to slow down eating.
It always hurts when the sick buns go when we’ve spent so much time trying to help them. We know how you feel so don’t feel like you’re alone. Spend as much time with Teddy to help you and him.
((((Binky free Athena))))
Thank you! I just started a new thread for this question, but how long should I keep her in the apartment for him to say goodbye? He went into the other room about 4 hours ago and hasn’t come out. Normally, he would come back in about 2 hours from now. Would it be good or bad for her to still be here when he comes back?
I think usually once the surviving bun leaves the body (pardon my blunt language) it’s ok to remove it. Usually this happens after a few hours.
. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
So sorry Meg. You certainly gave it your all. We lost our little girl similarly. She passed away cuddled up against Janice. So painful regardless or how and when they go. Just heartbreaking. My heart goes out to you guys.
Binky free {{{{{Athena}}}}}
Thank you so much, guys. I really appreciate your support.
We left her where she was from morning till dusk, and Teddy came out — he sniffed her but didn’t want to linger. Then we buried her. It was SO hard, and I cried. And I still can’t believe it. But there were some sort of bioluminsecent things in the soil that looked like stars. And that was a nice surprise and comfort, to have her in the stars.
I still want her to come back, though.
But thankfully, Teddy seems to be hanging in there. We’re hanging out with him more and he’s doing better than I expected.
Thank you so much again.
I’m so very sorry for your loss.
((((((Binky Free Athena)))))
Would you like me to lock this thread for you so it doesn’t keep getting brought up again? Either way is fine, but I like to ask as I know it can be difficult to still see illness posts getting replies after bunny has passed on. I can re-direct people to your Rainbow Bridge post.
Thank you! Either way is fine with me too. I’m kind of hoping to hear from JerseyGirl since she’s been helping our bunny family so much since its beginning, and I am really struggling with our first bunny loss.
Thank you again.
Meg, I am so sorry to read the update about Athena. She had been on my mind. And dear little Teddy.
From what you describe, it sounds like it was a very gentle passing for her. Its a blessing she was at home in her safe space with those she loved nearby.
***Binky Free Athena*** You were so loved!
But there were some sort of bioluminsecent things in the soil that looked like stars. And that was a nice surprise and comfort, to have her in the stars.
That is a beautiful thought. Her in the stars xx
I do want to thank you for starting this thread and asking those questions. It will help people facing this themselves, me included. It so often in hindsight we can put some things together and recognise signs. When you mentioned the vet had said about not holding the head up an end of life sign, it triggered my memory about Jersey. That happened with her. She try put it up then it would wobble all way down again, like she was having a stroke. It wasn’t long after that she passed.
I also came across a FB post yesterday on a rescue site and intended to post about it here. It was about rabbits near end of life not wanting to swallow. It appears you saw that happen with Athena also. I intend to ask them a bit more about what they typically see with rabbits that are ready to go.
Maybe knowing will prepare us that little bit more? It will still hurt and we will still wish we could have them forever, but maybe we’ll get a little bit of peace knowing there was nothing more we could do.
Again, Im am sorry for what you’re going through with your dear girl leaving. Love to Teddy also. He sounds like he is coping alright so far. xx
Thank you soooo much, Jerseygirl!! I am more grateful than I can say for all of your kind and generous support, both now and all these 9+ years that I’ve been a bunny parent. It means the world.
Thank you, that’s a good idea about asking them more about what they see when bunnies are ready to go. With Athena, it was really fast. It wasn’t until about 24 hours before she passed that she stopped wanting to swallow. The day before that, she was lapping up her medicines willingly and even the Critical Care too (I was trying out the fine grind version for the first time, and she did seem to like that better than the regular kind).
And the vet seemed to expect that it could be a few days between when she couldn’t lift her head and when she would go, but with Athena it was really just a few minutes. I wish I had just stayed with her when I saw her with her head on the floor, instead of going to get her pain medicine ready. I thought we had some more time, and I wanted to help her — but I so wish I could have been there at the moment that she passed.
But yes, I’m very grateful that we were all together at home. And that I at least got to pet her once more that morning before she went. The vet’s office offered to keep her when we went in the day before, but they said all they would have done was have techs give her the same injections and treatments that I could give her at home. So I’m grateful they sent us home with the injectables so she could be home with Teddy and me.
Thank you so much again for all of your help and support. And yes, Teddy is doing a little better every day. We both hate this so much, but he is a strong and resilient little soul. I just wish I could do more for him.
Thank you again.
› FORUM › HOUSE RABBIT Q & A › How do I know when my elderbun is just sick and when it’s her time?
