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Forum BEHAVIOR Peeing woes

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    • Jazzable
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        I’m  having a hard time with my rabbit. He is a french lop (big!), 9 months old, and was neutered in january. He’s recently been to the vet and is in perfect health other than a minor unexplained sniffles that’s been present since I got him.

        Tl;dr version: he intermittently pees outside the litter box (despite being perfectly poo-trained), and I don’t know why. It’s driving me crazy, and I’m out of ideas other than sticking him a cage, which I don’t want to do long-term. Am I just not suited to having this rabbit?

        Rant version:

        I got him at about nine weeks old and he very quickly became reliable with using a litter box. But over the last few months things seem to have deteriorated and I have no idea why, but it’s driving me crazy. He is still 99.9% reliable about pooing in the box (literally I pick up like a single stray poo in a week, if that), but he is intermittently peeing elsewhere.

        From the very beginning he wanted to pee on the bed, which has never really changed – it’s frustrating but I was coming to accept that he might just have a scent-marking instinct that can’t be overridden in a place that smells a lot like me. But in the last few months he’s started peeing on the bathroom floor, the beanbag where I sit a lot, and the kitchen floor too. 

        I’m desperately trying to understand what prompts this, but I just have no idea. He seems to often pee in corners where he also spends time futilely digging the floor – is he peeing in frustration that he can’t dig through tiles?! I’ve tried giving him a box full of paper to play in but that doesn’t seem to satisfy his digging instincts and he goes right back to burrowing against the floor. I’ve tried cleaning the spot thoroughly (soap + vinegar) as soon as I notice, and I’ve tried leaving it for a while in the hopes the smell will make him feel better, but neither seems to make a difference. I’ve tried completely blocking his access to a certain spot for a week or so in the hopes it will reset the habit, but even then he will randomly go right back to it.

        The trouble is that he does it quite intermittently – sometimes not for several days or more in a certain spot – so it’s not often enough that I can predict when he will do it in order to prevent/teach him. And it’s not often enough that it seems like a really strong habit, which somehow makes it harder to break. He also seems to almost only do it when I’m not there to see, which makes it extremely hard to react quickly enough to teach him – it almost makes me think he knows I don’t want him doing it, and is deliberately avoiding me??

        I’m so frustrated and I’m struggling to deal with it. This morning I went out for about twenty minutes to get some shopping and came home to pee on the kitchen floor again. I just want to be able to leave the house (or leave a room!) without being nervous about how much mess I will find when I get back. Now I’ve set up the playpen (which I put away within a couple of months of getting him, because he’s been free-range full time) and locked him up, because I can’t deal with the stress today. But he hates being in the pen, chews the bars and shoves the sides, and will probably escape of his own accord before long – this isn’t a long term solution! If I had to keep him confined, I could get a proper solid and covered cage, but he would be just as unhappy in there – just unable to escape. I don’t want to do that.

        It’s making me feel like I can’t cope with owning a rabbit like this. I love him so much, but if the only solution to my stress is to force him to be stressed, then maybe we just aren’t suited to living together. Does anyone have any suggestions that I haven’t tried yet? Any possible explanation for his behaviour, or a way to retrain him that doesn’t just involve caging him with an hour of closely-supervised play a day? Was it just a mistake for me to get a rabbit?


      • sarahthegemini
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          I can understand your frustration. I dealt with the same sort of thing with my boy bun just a few months ago. He randomly started peeing next to his litter box. Nothing helped and it was a little annoying waking up during the night to go to the loo myself to see big pee spots from him. Like yours, he seemed to mainly do it when I wasn’t there to stop him. On the occasions where I could see him, I could pat his little bum and show him the litter box and that worked a few times til he decided to be a stubborn little monster and wouldn’t budge when I patted his butt. Instead, he’d pee immediately and then hop away! Sometimes he even looked in the litter box and decide it wasn’t for him so he’d pee next to it lol.

          I can’t offer any advice I’m afraid because my boy stopped this new habit all by himself and I’ve no idea why! But you’re not alone with this problem. Maybe it’s a boy bun thing?!


        • Wick & Fable
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            There’s a difference between litter-box trained and litter-box adherent, in my opinion. Litter-box trained is the rabbit understands it should go to the restroom in the designated litter box, while adherence is how well they abide by that. WIck is litter-boxed trained, not adherent.

            Every rabbit’s scenarios and reasons may be different, but below is an outline of the four, sole reasons why Wick pees outside the box:
            1) General Marking – Despite being neutered, Wick very much still wants to mark new areas, or areas he does not always get access to. For example, my walk-in closet. It’s always closed, but there are times I open it and Wick goes in as well. Wick always wants to pee once he gets in there, so I watch him and hiss at him once he tries to, or scoot him out of there before the attempt even occurs.
            2) Frustration – Wick. is. a. huge. jerk. Haha. He pees when he’s frustrated at me or his other parent. This comes typically in three forms: First, he smells fruit but we don’t give him any. He follows us around, hoping to get some, and when it goes for too long and he realizes he gotten none, he hops a few steps and pees in front of us. Second, he is denied access to somewhere he wants to go. The office is the only place he’s not allowed to go in, for his safety. On days where there’s high traffic to the office (me and his other parent stepping over the barrier regularly) and even on days we don’t, he will constantly pee at the barrier wall. There’s always pee there. There’s dried up pee there now in fact. Third, similar to the first, he’ll pee on the bed if I take too long to get out of it and feed him. A joy indeed.
            3) Inconvenience – If he wakes up from a nap on the sofa, or from his main sleep on the bedroom dresser, both are pretty far from litter boxes. He may dash to the box to take a whizz, but sometimes he’ll just rummage where he is and pee there instead.
            4) Teeth – His teeth are bothering him so his inadherent pees skyrocket. When his teeth are bugging him, his fuse gets so short, so impatience, frustration, tolerance, everything drops and so his last-resort of sassy peeing because his first resort. The week prior to a regular teeth grinding for him is typically filled with pee. Everywhere.

            — Generally, the inadherent pees have lessened, but I doubt they’ll ever go away, because in Wick’s case, they are purposeful, not out of not-knowing. I know he knows better, because if I walk up to him while he’s about to do it, he’ll run away with a head shake, which, in that context, is a sign of frustration (“Damn. I can’t do it.”).

            Three keys to helping reduce his pees are:
            1) Stop him when he’s in the act (right at the butt arch) and put him in the litter box instead.
            2) Avoid the temptation all together by bringing him to the litter box when I know he needs to pee (i.e. after he wakes up and I see he didn’t go to the litterbox yet, get him away from the office barrier when I see him fixated on it).
            3) Perseverance. Try and do #1/2 as much as possible.

            … Applying my experience to Wick with your rabbit, I’d suggest, when it is possible (i.e. you’re home), have him free-roam, and keep an eye out when he’s in the usual areas he’ll pee. Be ready to hiss at him or just get him away from that area in general so you don’t need to keep monitoring him. You can’t help what happens when you’re gone (Wick may leave a pee on the sofa while I’m gone, about once a month?), but when you’re there, the more learning-opportunities (i.e. stopped attempts followed by litter box transport) or the less successful attempts (i.e. preventing him from doing it in the first place) will strengthen the idea that he should not be doing it, and this may influence his behavior when you’re not present. Again, Wick still does these pees, but they’re at a lower frequency before. He made me severely frustrated, but now it’s pretty tolerable as long as I stay attentive.

            More specific to you, blocking off the area he usually pees in for a week, then relinquishing that block, sounds like a very tempting time to re-pee on that block. Wick would 100% do that. If blocking it was successful, I’d readhere to that when you’re gone, and when you’re home, take the barrier out and get ready to prevent the tempted pee, for a learning experience.

            In terms of how to stop a pee, Wick and many rabbits are startled by a loud, forceful hiss. Obviously constantly scaring a rabbit can really stress them and some rabbits do die from fright, but in the context of litter-box habits, I think a sound cue is very important. A hiss gets Wick to pause so I can walk up to him and bring him to a litter box. Some times I hiss and he runs away, but I don’t want him peeing somewhere else so I sort of hiss-follow him to a litterbox. End of the day, he’ll end up in that litterbox to release that pee, nowhere else. Wick has been hiss-programmed since 9 weeks old, so it’s not a sound he’s terrified at, it’s one he’s alert to “Crap, I’m gonna get put in the litterbox”.

            I hope this helps. Deep breaths!1

            The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.


          • DanaNM
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              How large is his free run area?

              If the area is large he is probably just too far from his potty, so is making a new one. I think this could be especially true if the kitchen is out of sight of his main box. You might try adding a box in the kitchen and/or bathroom and see if that helps. Some folks end up with a box in every corner!

              The bean bag is probably because it’s soft and smells strongly of you.

              You can also try restricting his space to an area small enough that his box habits return, then slowly increasing it.

              . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


            • Jazzable
              Participant
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                Thanks for the responses! Wick, that all makes a lot of sense – I definitely agree, my bun is trained but not adherent. I’m not sure whether his peeing is territorial or frustration, either explanation seems plausible to me. I’m wondering if it could be frustration about not getting enough attention, because it’s often when I’m not there? Maybe I will try to make a deliberate effort to give him lots of strokes when I’m about to go out so that he doesn’t feel so abandoned!

                Dana, his free range area is a small studio flat, and I’m confident the problem is not about the location of the box. Not least because one of the places he often pees outside the box is in the bathroom, the room the box is in! And because he never poos outside it – he regularly gets up from whatever he’s doing in the living room and dashes over to the box with no prompting.

                I set him up in the playpen yesterday and I think I’m going to keep that set up for a while, and try to strengthen his litter habits again from a smaller area. Also to preserver my own sanity for a while. :S So he’s now in a small space unless I let him out ready to carefully supervise, and I’ll see how that goes.

                Thanks again. If anyone has other ideas I’m still interested! I wish he could just explain his reasoning to me so I would know how to solve the problem.


              • DanaNM
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                  Gotcha. We had a whole saga with Bertha peeing outside her box recently (just a few feet away), and I think it’s finally getting under control.

                  With her I found it was helpful to wait to clean up the pee until after she was locked in her condo for the night/day. There were times when I would be cleaning up her pee, and she would pee again right next to me as I was cleaning it!

                  I also found that cleaning with vinegar was leaving too strong of a vinegar smell, which I think was encouraging her to remark the area. I ended up using the unscented Nature’s miracle carpet shampoo, and I wait until it’s dry to let her back in the area.

                  I have also been trying to make the litter box way more inviting by always topping it up with lots of fresh fluffy hay in addition to what’s in the rack.

                  I can’t tell if it’s just because her bond is more settled in, but there has been way less marking (maybe once every 2 days now). Although yesterday I was plucking tufts of loose fur from her bum, and apparently got too personal, as she hopped up and peed right there! Sassy girl!

                  Like Sarah, I can’t tell if it was something I did to improve the problem, or if it just resolved itself.

                  . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

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              Forum BEHAVIOR Peeing woes