Grumpy Female Bunny is UnBondable?

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This topic has 12sd replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 6 years, 1 month ago by LauraVeitch.

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- 04/26/2018 at 10:58 PM
  Snickerdoodle & Oreo
  Participant
  12 posts
  We have two female bunnies. Snickerdoodle was our first bunny – she’s a wild, fun and adventurous Holland Lop who’s over 1 year old. Oreo is our newest bunny, a beautiful Lionhead, who’s very shy and timid but is approx. 10 months old. Both are spayed and began their bonding process in a neutral territory at the House Rabbit Society where we found Oreo. They had 4 dates before we decided to bring Oreo home. Unfortunately, we discovered that Snickerdoodle is very territorial and doesn’t tolerate Oreo, unless in stressful situations. So in order to bond them, I place them in a large carrier and go for a walk for 20 minutes. This deters any fighting. We finish their date in the tub with a litter box. They each get pets and sweet talking, but our Snickerdoodle grows limp and stoic in new locations, which makes it confusing. We can’t tell if it’s working.
  
  Our first day at home was very rough. We had built a cage in our bedroom, as instructed by the Society, for our two bunnies with a wire mesh in between. However, Snickerdoodle was a free roam bunny before bringing Oreo home, so she grew very frustrated and jumped over the wire mesh to greet Oreo. We weren’t there, as I was headed to work, so they were alone for a maximum of 30 minutes. We’ve taken both to the vet since this incident and luckily, they’re both in perfect health. But Oreo ended up with a patch of fur missing – no bites or blood, just fur. Snickerdoodle likes to mount, so my theory is that, she mounted Oreo after her daring feat and Oreo bolted, terrified of the flying bunny.
  
  After that incident, we changed the cages around. We built two equally sized cages, back to back, and watched how they responded. It was bad. Snickerdoodle would take any chance she could to attack Oreo. I got a decent sized bite on my finger the first night, trying to keep Snickerdoodle away. After that, we placed layers upon layers of cardboard to separate the two. Still, they would fight any chance they got. So their stress levels kept getting worse, to the point where they weren’t accepting treats.
  
  We moved them to separate rooms and gave them a break from each other. They returned to their normal, happy behavior. All was well. But the guest room that Oreo was using would soon be out of commission. My stepdad was bringing his parents to the house. So we’re back to having both bunnies in the same space, both equally on edge with one another, and of course, that stresses us out as well.
  
  At this point in our journey, I feel lost. I’m sad that our baby girl didn’t accept our choice for a roommate, because Oreo is very loving and would bond easily with another bunny. (During our dates, Oreo would consistently groom Snickerdoodle.) But I feel that our bonding methods have ruined a chance for them to become friends. Or even worse, Snickerdoodle cannot be bonded. What have we done wrong? How can we fix it moving forward?
  
  As a thank you for your help, here’s a picture of our two girls.
- 04/27/2018 at 5:08 AM
  Sirius&Luna
  Participant
  2320 posts
  Hi!
  
  I have a super grumpy, territorial female, and she is now happily bonded to my two boys… so there is hope!
  
  BUT, I think you have really rushed the process, and as a result, Oreo has learned to be terrified of Snicker, and Snicker has learned she can be aggressive.
  
  I would keep them totally separate for at least a month, maybe two. (The following advice is based on what worked for my aggressive and territorial bunny.)
  
  Then, move them back to near each other, but ensure that they can never touch through the bars. At least 10 inches of space between them. Then swap them between cages every day. This will most likely make Snicker VERY angry, but that’s fine and it’s normal. She’s angry because she can smell another bunny in her territory, and it’s good that she gets used to that before face to face interactions.
  
  Do this for a month, or longer until you stop seeing angry responses from both bunnies.
  
  Then, put them both in a neutral space for a very short time. Literally one minute. You can keep your hand between them, with a glove, so that Snicker can’t attack Oreo. If that goes okay, then do another one minute session a bit later. You can even pet Snickers if that keeps her calm. (With mine, I didn’t take my hand off Luna for a second for the first few sessions). The aim of this is to teach them both that they can be in the same space without fighting. So very slowly increase the time, 2 minutes 3 times the next day, 3 minutes 3 times the day after. It’s slow and frustrating, but you’ve tried the speedy method and it didn’t work for them.
  
  Again, you can intervene as much as you want at this early stage. The goal is that they have positive interactions with each other, and it doesn’t matter if you’re the one managing that.
  
  Once you feel like they’re tolerating each other for short periods, you can see what happens if you back off a bit (eg, I mean don’t keep your hand in between them all the time, I don’t mean just leave them to it!), and increase the time they’re spending together. Again, this all needs to go slowly, so work them up to 15 minutes, half an hour, an hour…
  
  You can also try things like scattering food, if they’re not food aggressive, or giving them a big pile of hay on the floor to share.
- 04/27/2018 at 5:16 AM
  Sirius&Luna
  Participant
  2320 posts
  I also recommend reading some other people’s bonding journals on here – it really helps to see what methods work for different people, and to see some hopeless looking cases that did eventually bond with perserverance.
  
  See Dana’s journal of a pretty tricky bond below:
  https://binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/aft/164900/Default.aspx
  
  Pete had two bunnies that fought after being ‘bonded’ very quickly, but he successfully rebonded them:
  https://binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/aft/163363/Default.aspx
  
  You can find more examples if you go through the forum, but I think those two are a good starting point
- 04/27/2018 at 8:37 AM
  Snickerdoodle & Oreo
  Participant
  12 posts
  Wow, that was genuinely the best response! Thank you!
  
  We have clearly never bonded bunnies, but thought it would be rewarding to try. We just didn’t know how Snickerdoodle would react in advance (since she freezes up in new locations). We were shocked to find out our tiny Lop is such a fighter.
  
  I will definitely read through those! I have cried a lot over our girls, because the Society gave us limited information and I felt unprepared emotionally for what might happen. I feel a stronger resolve now, especially with actionable steps.
  
  I’ll be swapping the two bunnies between cages today. I do hate seeing Snickerdoodle angry, because I’m a pushover for our furbabies, but if it means she’ll have a lasting and loving relationship with Oreo, then it’s worth it.
- 04/27/2018 at 8:49 AM
  Sirius&Luna
  Participant
  2320 posts
  No problem
  
  I was actually suggesting that you keep them totally separate for a month before you start prebonding, as it seems Oreo has learned to be scared of Snickerdoodle. But if you don’t have the space to do that, it’s not totally essential since there haven’t been any injuries. Try the prebonding and see if they start to calm down after a month of it. And come back when you start actual bonding so we can help with body language etc
  
  By the way, for prebonding it’s important that they smell each others litter trays etc, so you might want to do a bit less cleaning than usual! I would leave it 3 days, so they move into a hutch with a dirty litter tray, spend a day with the other buns litter tray, using it, and then move back into their original hutch with a litter tray that the other bun has used!
- 04/27/2018 at 9:20 AM
  Snickerdoodle & Oreo
  Participant
  12 posts
  Okay.
  
  I did understand that part, but they have been separate for roughly a month – I may have failed to mention that. We just placed them in the same room again last night. Each one is in their own separate cage, about a foot away from each other.
  
  Unfortunately for us, we’re bunking it up at my parents house and initially, they had agreed to let me use the guest room. But the moment Oreo got home, my stepdad announced that he was bringing his parents. So we used the room for as long as we could, and now, his parents are here. We have no other space for our buns, other than our bedroom.
  
  That’s why I felt like our bonding sessions were ruined. We won’t be moving until August.
- 04/27/2018 at 9:29 AM
  Sirius&Luna
  Participant
  2320 posts
  Ah okay, if they’ve spent a month in separate rooms, then get straight on with the prebonding
  
  I definitely don’t think your bonding is ruined! I am of the opinion that with time and patience, almost all bunnies can be bonded Generally, it’s rushing the bonding and allowing them to repeatedly have big fights that make bunnies unbondable.
- 04/27/2018 at 9:35 AM
  Snickerdoodle & Oreo
  Participant
  12 posts
  Gotcha!
  
  I’m learning. Haha. So thank you again. I appreciate that frame of thought more, because it means, my Snickerdoodle has hope! It’s just her momma that fumbled around. I will return with updates, if all goes well. If not, I might run back for more advice.
- 04/27/2018 at 9:49 AM
  Sirius&Luna
  Participant
  2320 posts
  Haha no worries.
  
  Honestly, my Luna HATED the boys I brought home for her she would lunge and try to bite them at every opportunity, but we got there. Now she totally loves them. Although she still looks embarrassed if I catch her grooming one of them.
- 04/27/2018 at 10:08 AM
  Gordo and Janice
  Participant
  703 posts
  @Sirius&Luna “Although she still looks embarrassed if I catch her grooming one of them.”……lol
- 05/04/2018 at 6:27 AM
  a llama
  Participant
  66 posts
  My situation is so similar to this! I also have a black lionhead named Oreo, except that he is a male. Like your Oreo, mine is also very sweet and loves to groom everyone else, which is unfortunate because like Snickerdoodle, Ben, my other male, is also extremely aggressive and refuses to groom back. I recently adopted a third bunny, this time a female, who loves to play and shows no aggression at all. I hope they can all be a happy trio in the future, and I wish the best for your girls as well. I will definitely be referring to this post for extra advice on my bond.
- 09/27/2018 at 11:14 AM
  Snickerdoodle & Oreo
  Participant
  12 posts
  Hello all,
  
  I’m returning with an update! We are still living in our garage-turned-bedroom at our parents, so it gives us limited space to work with, but we found that placing the two girls in separate cages was working really well. At first, they had very limited space in small cages about 10 feet apart – we would switch them consistently between cages, so each bunny had their turn using up the toys and litter boxes. This appeared to work great, because they knew of each other and felt comfortable near but not close to the other bunny.
  
  Recently, I changed up their cages. I bought another x-pen and crafted two huge pens, side by side. I got rid of a bit of furniture in order to do this, but now, the bunnies have space to roam and are less cramped. However, there is a fundamental flaw in the design – they’re not exactly equal. I have a huge water filter attached to the wall that prevents me from forming two equally square cages, but I do switch the bunnies on a regular basis, so they get to test out both. We were hoping to have a place of our own by now, but it’s just too expensive and doesn’t allow us to save up for our move out-of-state.
  
  I started out with both cages facing each other and Snickerdoodle was doing *amazing*. She would come up to the cage bars and sleep comfortable next to Oreo. She wouldn’t grunt, be aggressive, or territorial. She actually seemed to enjoy the company, even a little bit. But I quickly woke up to a dispute on Oreo’s side. She was not okay with Snickerdoodle so close and thumped at her, which scared Snickerdoodle and made her thump back. After this, they couldn’t see each other without stressing out, so I placed a barrier between the two.
  
  They easily calmed down and can live comfortable in either cage, so long as they don’t see each other. It totally bums me out, because it seemed we were having some progress, but as I’ve learned during a short bonding session, Oreo has held onto a grudge. She’s now aggressive and will fight Snickerdoodle any time she’s near. So we’re planning on resetting and taking them to the House Rabbit Society for more assistance in a neutral territory. We were also thinking of stress bonding in the car as advised by another HRS member.
  
  Any thoughts or further advice would be awesome!
- 09/29/2018 at 10:40 AM
  LauraVeitch
  Participant
  3 posts
  I am currently trying to bond my 4 bunnies – 2 pairs. Each male/female and everyone is neutered. I found bonding the singles into pairs relatively easy – cages next to each other introductions in neutral territory etc but I have one pair who are DEVOTED to each other and the other pair is a tolerance bond. One bunny causes all the problems and it’s Julian my mini rex male. HIs partner is Millie, a dwarf lop. Then there’s Bella a lion head and Charlie who is a crossbreed. Bella and Charlie are loves young dream! I have tried bonding the entire group twice before, and this is the third attempt. The previous 2 attempts (outside in a run, and then inside the bathtub) both ended up in bad fights between the boys. No injuries but fiercely aggressive. After this, we separated them back into their pairs and didn’t even let them see each other for at least 3 months, could even be longer. They needed to completely forget about each other. We then started letting them take turns in the outdoor run so they used the same toys, boxes and shelter house but during separate sessions.
  I’ve put the rest of the bonding experience this time round on my own post, but I’d definitely suggest a complete separation as you don’t want the to remember the arguments they’ve had before!
  
  [Revised by Wick]
  For those who’d like to give input to Laura’s situation, please see the following thread: https://binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/aft/169270/Default.aspx
  
  This will help mainstream responses to this particular situation.
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