Help with first time bonding

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This topic has 21sd replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 6 years, 7 months ago by Masters02.

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- 02/25/2018 at 8:36 AM
  Masters02
  Participant
  16 posts
  Hello All,
  
  First time rabbit owners here looking for advice with the bonding of our 2 house rabbits.
  
  Up until now, Doris (7month Female) and Dutch (10month male) have been kept completely separate. Doris has been in the living room and Dutch has been in the spare room. They both use a dog crate as a ‘base’. Now they are both spayed / neutered we are ready to try and bond them…
  
  Our plan was:
  1. Move Doris’ crate into Dutch’s room as per the picture, and leave them so they get used to each other for a few weeks. (they will take it in turns to stretch their legs in the hallway)
  2. Face to face in the kitchen as its the only neutral area.
  3. Both to eventually lives in Dutch’s room
  Since moving her crate into Dutch’s room, Doris has been fine and acting normal. However, Dutch has become very aggressive and is growling every time anyone comes near his cage. Is this likely to be because she has invaded his space? If so, will he adjust or shall we consider an alternative solution?
  
  The growling is worrying as Doris is such a lovely calm rabbit, im worried that when they meet Dutch might attack and really hurt her.
  
  Any advice or thoughts would be much appreciated.
  
  Many Thanks,
- 02/26/2018 at 5:38 AM
  Sirius&Luna
  Participant
  2320 posts
  Aren’t they adorable!
  
  It sounds like you have the steps and ideas all figured out. It’s totally normal for them to be aggressive at first, so don’t worry about it, it’s not a sign that they won’t bond. During these first few weeks, the best thing to do is swap them between each others cages every other day, so they get used to smelling each other, and lose a sense of what is ‘their’ territory. Hopefully after a month of that you’ll see a reduction in aggression from Dutch. What you really want to see is them laying against the bars near each other, and mirroring behaviour.
  
  Then you’re ready to start your bonding on neutral territory, which i see is your kitchen. You might want to use a pen or block off part of the kitchen, as starting bonding in a large room could lead to problems such as chasing. Let us know when you get to that stage, and I would be happy to give more specific advice
- 03/30/2018 at 9:09 AM
  Masters02
  Participant
  16 posts
  Hello again,
  
  So over the past month we have been switching them between the 2 cages almost daily, and for the most part they seemed pretty content with eachother. Feeling more confident we attempted our first bonding session today…
  
  We did it in the kitchen as it is the only neutral space in the house, for the most part they ignored eachother, happy to eat the hay we had scattered over the floor. Doris would mostly hide in the corner, Dutch was a little more confident.
  
  However, each time Dutch approached Doris he would either bite or try to pull her fur, as im paranoid of him biting her eyes (do rabbits even go for the eyes?) i used a dust pan and brush to keep there faces apart. It looked more aggressive than i was expecting and it was accompanied with a growl. I’ve attached a short clip of one of the encounters as i really dont know what to make of it.
  
  If anyone with more experience has any thoughts i would really appreciate it, as im unsure if i should allow it as part of dominance or if it was a fight?!
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alKd0Ms3gN0&feature=youtu.be
  
  After each time Dutch went for her, Doris didnt seem to fased and would happy approach him to eat hay again, so maybe it just looks worse?
- 03/30/2018 at 10:07 AM
  Masters02
  Participant
  16 posts
  Post in error, see post above ?
- 03/30/2018 at 2:14 PM
  Deleted User
  Participant
  22064 posts
  It looks like he was trying to hump her, in which case you should let him hump for no more than 10 seconds. Some bunnies figure out their dominance through humping. A lot of bunnies groom the top of the head, so you’ll have to let their faces touch if any of that is going to happen. Try not to interfere too much. Nips are okay, it’s how bunnies communicate.
- 03/30/2018 at 2:35 PM
  Masters02
  Participant
  16 posts
  Thanks for replying, we’re probably just being too nervous and should let them get on with it! It was the first time we’ve tried to bond them and it looked a little more aggressive than I was expecting…
- 03/31/2018 at 2:52 AM
  Hevn
  Participant
  4 posts
  I don’t think they’ll attack each other, just remember to introduce them slowly.
- 03/31/2018 at 7:17 AM
  Masters02
  Participant
  16 posts
  We have been a bit braver today and let Dutch have more access to Doris before we interfere. He seems to be quite aggressive with his initial lunge/nip but then follows up more gentle but still firm nips, some fur was being pulled too. He hasn’t mounted her yet, after he’s nipped her a few times we then wonders off for a few minutes.
  
  All this time, Doris is simple frozen and allows him to do it, she doesn’t fight back.
  
  Any of the above sound like trouble?
- 03/31/2018 at 4:33 PM
  Sirius&Luna
  Participant
  2320 posts
  It does sound like Doris is too afraid of him – while you don’t want her to fight back, being frozen in fear is not ideal.
  
  Perhaps you could try the ‘smooshing’ technique at the beginning of the bonding session, sit them side by side and pet them both for a few minutes until they relax. Then you can back off as you have been and see how they interact. Hopefully you’ll see better interactions if they start off calmer.
  
  That said, there’s nothing terrible about what’s been happening so far – I’m just personally a big believer in positive bonding and them associating each other with good things.
- 04/01/2018 at 6:36 AM
  Masters02
  Participant
  16 posts
  We’ve taken a few more videos from our second day of bonding, as its easier to show that describe what is going.
  
  What tends to happen, is that Doris will sit in the corner looking very afraid whilst Dutch largely ignores her, however every so often he comes over and does this:
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dujDq5Vduzs
  
  She seems to tolerate to a point then he gets too rough as he run away.
  
  The reason i keep the dustpan by her face, is that he often goes for her eyes like in this video, which is really terrifying and i really dont want her to be in serious pain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dc195j4Ei74
  
  Rather confusingly though, after all of this she will still approach him cautiously and they do share food face to face: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esbCBB-vplw
  
  I know its early, but my gut feeling says he is being too rough with her and this could be a tricky bond. I really dont want Doris is be i fear this whole time, and i do question how much more of this i should put her through. Its like shes a punching bag sometimes…
  
  Any thoughts on the videos would be very much appreciated!
  
  Thanks All
- 04/03/2018 at 1:36 AM
  Masters02
  Participant
  16 posts
  I think we will put a hold on the bonding process until we can get some feedback on the videos I posted above, I’m really struggling to know what is and isn’t acceptable and I don’t want to make Doris suffer too much!
- 04/03/2018 at 3:57 AM
  Sirius&Luna
  Participant
  2320 posts
  Honestly, I come on binky bunny at quiet points at work, so I’m not going to be able to watch videos.
  
  Two days in, it’s very early to say how it will go. I don’t really understand how he’s being rough with her from what you’ve said though. Does he lunge or bite? Or hump aggressively?
  
  If she approaches him and they share food, she can’t be that scared.
  
  I’ve just bonded a trio, and to start with my girl was absolutely vicious. She would lunge and try to bite for absolutely no reason, but we persisted, didn’t let her bite the boys (she got my knuckle once instead) and now they are completely happy together. She was honestly absolutely terrible at first.
  
  If you feel like he’s still being too aggressive, then take a step back and do more pre-bonding.
- 04/03/2018 at 12:38 PM
  Masters02
  Participant
  16 posts
  It’s really hard for me to say with such little experience whether it’s too rough on for her, hopefully someone who can watch the videos will be able to give me some guidance as to whether it’s acceptable to allow or not.
- 04/03/2018 at 3:54 PM
  Nutmeg
  Participant
  594 posts
  Hey! I have not started bonding mine yet (have to get them spayed/neutered first) so I’m not much help, but I would be nervous at that nipping too – but again, I’m not sure what is “bunny speak”.
  So as someone who is new to all this, don’t feel silly for being nervous as I would be too at that! PLUS its better to be over coutious sometimes than just throwing them in together.
  
  I’m commenting in hopes it will boost your post so more people see it And we can learn together!
- 04/03/2018 at 4:54 PM
  Masters02
  Participant
  16 posts
  Thanks for the comments Nutmeg, with tonight’s bonding session we kept Dutch from touching Doris completely and she seemed to have more confidence which was great.
  
  However, at some point they need to interact and Its probably going to be similar to what is in the videos again so I’m really hoping someone with some experience will be able to help!
  
  Interestingly Dutch hasn’t tried to mount her, just lunges and fur pulls as per the videos!
  
  Rabbit are strange at times!!
- 04/04/2018 at 8:35 AM
  Nutmeg
  Participant
  594 posts
  Awww I’m glad she’s getting more confidence. However I agree with you that some more experienced people will hopefully weigh in – as those video’s are super helpful to show what’s going on.
- 04/04/2018 at 2:20 PM
  sarahthegemini
  Participant
  5584 posts
  I’ve tried watching the videos but my browser won’t allow it? Not sure why!
  
  Maybe it would help you to look at bonding videos on YouTube to compare to what your rabbits are doing?
- 04/06/2018 at 12:03 PM
  Masters02
  Participant
  16 posts
  Strange you can’t see them, they should just be regular YouTube videos!
  
  We’ve been taking it a little bit slower and letting Doris approach Dutch, not the other way around! She tends to bury her head under his bum and then groom his back very gently. This process went on for around 90 minutes and seemed to be going well…
  
  Dutch then approach her, we though it would be a groom but he lunged and pulled a big tuft of fur out (similar to the videos) so we decided to end it there before Doris lost all
  Her confidence again
- 04/06/2018 at 12:04 PM
  Masters02
  Participant
  16 posts
  Strange you can’t see them, they should just be regular YouTube videos!
  
  We’ve been taking it a little bit slower and letting Doris approach Dutch, not the other way around! She tends to bury her head under his bum and then groom his back very gently. This process went on for around 90 minutes and seemed to be going well…
  
  Dutch then approach her, we though it would be a groom but he lunged and pulled a big tuft of fur out (similar to the videos) so we decided to end it there before Doris lost all
  Her confidence again
- 04/06/2018 at 12:05 PM
  Masters02
  Participant
  16 posts
  Sorry for the duplicate post, not sure what happened…
- 04/06/2018 at 12:44 PM
  Deleted User
  Participant
  22064 posts
  Next time make sure you end on a positive or neutral note. You never want to end on a negative note. Bunnies can hold grudges, which is why it’s idea to make sure it doesn’t end negatively. After an incident like that, try to smoosh them together and pet them. That way the tone changes back to a more friendly one.
- 04/08/2018 at 10:37 AM
  Masters02
  Participant
  16 posts
  The bonding sessions have been very odd but going well I think, Dutch still tries to lunge at Doris so we have been stroking him to keep him calm and letting her approach him. Interestingly, when she comes to him she kind of headbuts/pushes him then flops right into him!!
  
  After all the fur pulling and lunging she still flops with him! All the time we strike them both and they seem relaxed whilst slightly on edge. When we stop stroking them though, Dutch still goes for her as per videos!! I have no idea why, she loves him so much and doesn’t pose him any threat!
  
  Bunnies are very confusing!!
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