Day two of Nimbus and Atlas bonding – another very positive 20 minute session. They both just seem very content around each other. Nimbus flopped around 5 minutes in, and a minute later, Atlas had flopped right next to him, feet to ears. MY HEART. It was the cutest thing I’ve ever seen. Nimbus also groomed Atlas a few times They shared some hay, and both seemed very relaxed.

If I only had the boys to bond, this would probably be a very easy bond, but I know Luna will be tricky. I just need to work out what the best approach would be. Perhaps now I know the boys will be largely fine together (obviously I still need to bond them, but they have the basis of a good relationship), I should try Nimbus and Luna, since they’ve never met.

Day three of Atlas and Nimbus. I almost want to say these two are love at first sight.

I left them together for two hours yesterday because they were doing so well. They literally both groomed each other incessantly for most of that time. At one point they were both trying to groom each others faces Is there such a thing as too much grooming? There was honestly more grooming between them in that two hours than I had in the whole time bonding Luna and Atlas. There were also lots of bunny flops together and sharing hay and forage. I can see how happy Atlas is, it’s adorable.

There was a little bit of bum nipping from Nimbus, and Atlas also did a bit of humping at one point, until I moved him. Nimbus has his final post neuter check today, so I’ve asked my boyfriend to take them both to the vet.

As ever, still working out what to do with Luna/ how to bring her in to this loved up pair.

Thanks A&B – the boys are on their little bonding trip to the vet now. Luna is booked in for her vaccinations in two weeks, so I’m hoping they can all go on that trip as a bonding excursion!

I have a new theory for Luna, that it’s mostly fear that makes her lash out. She can be a very scaredy bunny (food smells, noises, cars, the bathtub…), despite seeming very confident. So I don’t think stressing will work (in fact, over Christmas when they were in a carrier driving together, poor Atlas had a tuft pulled out), but making her super calm might. So sleepy also fits into this new theory well

Yeah, she’s not food aggressive, in fact I always used veg when I was bonding her and Atlas  so that’s a good idea too

Here’s the boys looking cosy on their vet trip  

Thanks Dana, that was the conclusion I came to – that if anything went wrong I know that Luna is the one I need to remove and the boys likely won’t fight. I also feel like the boys are almost TOO groom-y, and an extra bun might calm them down a bit.

The boys went on Nimbus’s last trip to the vet together yesterday afternoon, and all went well.

So last night I had the boys on my new bonding space (the living room table – perks that I can sit on the sofa rather than the toilet to observe!), and gave them a clean litterbox. The litterbox seemed to throw them off a bit, as they both seemed more nervous to begin with, but there was no aggression over it. By the end of the session they were both eating out of it together. More grooming and flopping together. Nimbus has had slightly sore eyes and has been having eye drops for the last week, and Atlas was quite aggressively grooming his eyes – I assume this comes from a place of kindness, eg he can feel they’re a bit crusty and is trying to help, but it’s not ideal. The vet said to stop it when it happens.

So then I decided to brave Luna. I scattered some pellets and lettuce, and put her up for literally one minute. She snuffled around a bit, and ate some pellets and lettuce, and mostly ignored the boys. She sniffed them a bit but I was nervous and kept my leather gloved hand between them.

I’m taking this as a huge positive though, as when I tried to reunite Luna and Atlas after the stasis, she lunged for him immediately. So to get to a minute of ignoring and eating hopefully means she doesn’t see them as a threat, and I can work from there.

Plan is to keep adding Luna for multiple short sessions. I might have to move them back to the bathroom for longer sessions, since the table won’t really work for overnights etc.

LOOK AT THEM!

We managed five minutes last night, Luna was mostly calm, although she did nip Nimbus when he put his bum in her face  I think that was fair though. Kale worked a treat. Boys investigated her, and I think Atlas even gave her a little lick on the ear. 

Yeah, I definitely feel like I can get there with persistence now! Luna does want to be friends, she just isn’t that sure how

Haha yepp. And she’s quite nervey, so I actually think if it works having the two chilled out boys around will really help her.

I’m working from home today, so had another 5 minute session with veg. She was a bit nippy again, but nothing vicious. I might try the bathroom this evening so they have a bit more space

Oh and Nimbus groomed Luna (he’s such a slut ) which seemed to mollify her a bit.

Had a bit of a failure in the bathroom yesterday. Nimbus ran around spraying pee, Luna lunged at him and Atlas and got a mouthful of fluff (lucky Nimbus is all fluff).

Nimbus absolutely stinks of that territorial poop smell, so to answer my own question, I guess the hormones do come in waves after the neuter! Going to give it a break for a week and see where we are.

I know, I was just starting to think, maybe this will be fine! Ah well… It’s never easy!

Ok, interesting new development. I tried all three again on the table, and petted Luna the whole time. She stayed extremely calm, and Atlas came and snuggled next to her. He even groomed her ear a little. Then Nimbus came over and nipped her! Then continued to nip my hand when I kept it between them! She was very calm and didn’t react to him. Is this because she lunged at him last time? Or is he jealous about Atlas? Or do I need to do some more swapping between them?

Anyway, it seems clear that the table works best for Luna, even though it isn’t as neutral…

Possibly, but he nipped her face and didn’t seem to be trying to mount her. Maybe he did just want pets too. 3 bunnies and two hands is tricky! I’ll try the table again tomorrow, and give Nimbus more attention.

Honestly, Atlas is the sweetest, kindest little bun ever. He’s very stable, hopefully he’ll be a calming influence!

It could be hormones still, last time he seemed hormonal it was more obvious, but I guess there’s different levels!

We had a really good 15 minute session on the table last night with all three.

(By the way, at this stage I’m letting the boys have their playtime out together, because they’re both so calm and I’ve seen no aggression from either, even when in semi-neutral space – still heavily monitored of course – so any sessions will refer to all three)

I stayed very involved and petted them the whole time, but Nimbus groomed Luna for a while, and Atlas groomed Luna a bit as well. She just stayed loafed and presenting her head to them, but it does seem like they’re all agreed on who is boss!

I’m going to keep doing these sessions with me very involved for a bit longer, then see what happens if I step back a bit 

Same again last night, 15 minutes of largely calm bunnies chilling. Nimbus groomed Luna tons, but she tried to nip as soon as he stopped.

I’m probably over thinking this, but what does it mean??

Or is it just a case of more time, and she’ll become less nippy? Nimbus didn’t retaliate, he just moved away, but I intervened before anything else happened because I didn’t want her to chase him (although I don’t know that she would have).

Haha maybe. I fear Luna is just always nippy… She’s a handful.

There was hay, but they’re not relaxed enough yet to munch on hay together.

Haha, Vienna, some buns are just naturally bossy and nippy!

I have to say, I’m pretty exhausted and drained by this process already, and I’ve barely started. I would hand them over to a professional, but I just don’t think the methods that most professionals use work for Luna (squishing into a small space together and leaving them to it), which is why the professional wasn’t able to bond Luna and Atlas previously. Luna gets defensive very quickly.

After a very unsuccessful all three attempt (immediate nipping and lunging from Luna), my boyfriend suggested just trying Luna and Atlas, and she was actually significantly calmer. She wandered around the table and ignored him, and even ate a bit of hay. They had a face to face stand off for a bit, which i petted them for, and Atlas groomed Luna. She did pull a tuft of fur out of his bum at one point, but he’s moulting like crazy at the moment, so it wasn’t necessarily a hard bite.

So, I’m wondering if having two rabbits nearby is overwhelming for Luna? Perhaps bonding her one on one with each of the boys would be a better approach. I’m 90% sure her aggression comes from fear, although I have no idea why since we’ve had her since she was 10 weeks old and she’s never had a bad experience with another rabbit.

I’ve also been letting the boys spend hours together, since they both really like the company, and they don’t seem to be affected by adding Luna to the mix. They flop together, groom each other, share a litterbox and eat together. I’m considering doing an overnight with them and leaving them together, as having at least two of them living together would make life easier.

I would consider it, and that’s my plan for if this doesn’t work out.

But, I feel like in the long term, having two friends would be good for her, and good for them. When Luna and Atlas were bonded, I felt like Atlas didn’t get as much attention from her as he would like, but having a bonded partner helps keep Luna calm. So having the two boys who could be as snuggly and friendly as they like, plus Luna having friends when she wants, but also not always being pestered, theoretically should work… I hope.

I think at the moment having two bunnies who she doesn’t trust is overwhelming, but I’m hoping as she learns that neither has the slightest inclination to aggression, she’ll calm down.

Oops, missed your comment Sarah, we must have posted at the same time!

That’s a good idea too. I guess I need to just keep playing around until I find a method that works. It just feels like I haven’t even really started bonding yet, but I know patience is key.

What are people’s thoughts on moving Atlas and Nimbus in together in the meantime? (after the appropriate marathon)

So I tried just Luna and Nimbus, and even though he groomed her she was still quite aggressive towards him.

It’s very odd, because Luna seems to constantly be on the defensive, even though neither of the boys have ever displayed any aggression towards her. They both immediately groom her whenever I put them together, but she still lunges at them. She acts like she’s been attacked by another bunny in the past, but we’ve had her since she was 10 weeks and I know that’s not the case.

Luna is still much more aggressive than I feel comfortable with, so I think I’m going to go back to prebonding, and then try a much more neutral space (like outside) since perhaps the neutralised spaces aren’t good enough.

I can’t remember when I first started bonding her and Atlas how aggressive she was. She constantly lunges at them both if either they stop grooming her, or I stop petting her. I can’t remember if she was this aggressive and got better over time, or if we started from a better place than this.

I haven’t updated in a while, as I’d been feeling a bit discouraged. But I think we’ve had a breakthrough! My boyfriend did some bonding with them yesterday daytime, and I think he lets them get on with it a bit more than me. He said Luna was a bit nippy at first then they all settled down, and Luna relaxed and cleaned her face etc.

So I gave them another hour together in the evening, and it all went well! They even all lay down together in a huddle at one point. They shared a big pile of hay together, and both boys groomed Luna. I swear at one point I saw two tiny licks of Nimbus from Luna. She did also snatch a piece of hay out of his mouth at one point, which startled him a bit.

Atlas is a very calm presence between them, he spent lots of the time flopped and relaxed, and the other two came to lie with him too.

So, now we have made some progress I’m going to keep going with hour plus sessions every evening to get them used to spending time together.

Bunny huddle, all in semi-relaxed positions, but not full flopped:

And hay sharing: (a video is in my instagram story if anyone wants extra cuteness!)

I’m about two hours into a bonding session that’s been really positive. Luna and Atlas have both fully flopped and relaxed, and although there have been some face to face grooming stand offs between Luna and both the boys individually, one of them has always just wandered off and it hasn’t even escalated to nipping.

The one low point was Atlas spraying pee, which went in my face… 😐

We had lots of good sessions at the weekend. I’m feeling really positive now.

The buns have been spending 6+ hours together on the table. Sharing a litter tray, sharing hay, sharing veggies, and I even saw Nimbus and Luna with their head in the water bowl together at one point. Both boys groom Luna and each other a lot, and I’ve caught Luna grooming Atlas too. Nimbus and Luna will lie down next to each other, and they’re all flopping and relaxing.

Luna can still be a bit bossy – there’s a favourite spot on the table where they can lie against the wall, and she nosed/nipped the boys out the way so she could have the spot. Neither of them were fussed though.

I haven’t seen any aggression, and not really even any nipping in the last couple of days.

My next step is going to be moving them onto the floor in the living room in a pen, which is their shared room. I obviously can’t do an overnight on the table, but since it’s in the living room anyway, I’m hoping they’re used to the semi-neutral and moving to the floor won’t cause any problems. We will see.

Yesterdays session was a bit of a disaster. I had them in a smallish pen on the floor with puppy pads. Luna was very nippy at the beginning, but after I put a big pile of hay in they all calmed down, ate together and flopped for about an hour. So I assumed Luna was just being hangry!

Then, of all buns, Atlas started being absolutely obnoxious. He was running around spraying pee, then started humping Luna’s face. My boyfriend grabbed him to stop him humping Luna’s face, then Luna lunged for the only bunny she could see, poor innocent Nim 

No ending on a positive note there. Guess it serves me right for saying I felt positive about them yesterday 

What is pee spraying about? Is it territorial or dominance?

I’m guessing this is because it was a more semi-neutral space, and its on the floor so they felt safer.

The thing that I’m confused by (I know I should know this by now) – obviously its expected that I take a step back when I move to a less neutral space – but do I persist through this, or do I move them back to a more neutral space? If they’re always going to take a step back at this stage, is it a problem?

The problem is I can’t overnight in my ‘neutral’ space that has been working for them, since it’s on a table. And it’s also not 100% neutral anyway, which is why I thought moving them to a pen on the floor wouldn’t be too big a shock, but meant that I could work up to overnights in it.

Also don’t know whether I should make the pen bigger – its 1m squared at the moment, but I could extend it to 2x1m, but don’t want to encourage chasing.

ugh. Such annoying complex creatures they are.

Thanks Dana – I didn’t see this until after I did another session with them in the same space yesterday, and actually they were much better. They did start getting antsy after about 2/3 hours, but perhaps that’s because they’re cramped into a tiny space. I’ll try making it 2x1m this evening. I have enough pens to do 2×2 but I probably shouldn’t suddenly quadruple their space!

I was also wondering about burning a scented candle – I know scented candles are bad for bunnies long term, but for occasions like this, perhaps it would help ‘neutralise’ the smell of the room a bit?

I’ll DM you my email

So, my boyfriend has been off work this week, and I’ve left him in charge of the bonding.

He had them in the small pen for a while. Apparently at one point they all started circling, but when he shouted ‘OI’ they all froze, so I’m glad that they don’t need to be broken up physically anymore. He decided yesterday that he could just let them all out to roam the living room together. (Obviously I do not think this is sensible and wouldn’t advise anyone else to do this). Miraculously, it worked, and they all got on really well in the bigger space. Apparently I ‘worry too much’  There was no scuffling at all, they were exploring as a pack, and were all lounging under a chair together for a while. They also voluntarily wandered in and out of the caged bonding space to eat and pee, which makes me think that the small space and boredom was the problem in there. I saw some binkies all round, although they are still a bit jumpy around each other – sometimes a small movement from one will set another off running like crazy, BUT it doesn’t escalate into chasing.

Since his somewhat unconventional methods are working, I’m going to leave him to it again today. We have a four-day weekend for Easter (do you get 4 days off for Easter in America too?), so I’m going to try some overnights, and hopefully get their bond solidified over that time

I’m planning on watching that video this evening Dana – but so far, larger space definitely seems to be helping.

Its also slightly irritating that his laissez-faire attitude works… I mean obviously I don’t want them to fight, but I also don’t want him to be right haha.

They have also been spending time together every day for about a month and a half now, so maybe they’re just coming to realise that this is how it is. And the room is the one that they’ve all been territorial pooping over for 4 months, so I guess they knew that was shared territory.

Another positive – LESS POOPS ALREADY. I read the other day that each bunny does 300 poops a day…. so pleased to have a few more in the litter tray already.

Hmm, I can’t see any harm in trying! I wonder if the familiar space is even comforting?

We’re doing an overnight tonight. They’ve been in the hutch area all day today together – the door has been open but they mostly chose to stay inside. I’ve seen a good mix of them chilling together and in various pairs, but haven’t seen as much grooming as i’d like. Maybe that comes more with time? I can’t really remember how it went last time, but I think Luna did get more generous with her grooming over time. There’s been no lunging or biting. Luna does occasionally nip a boy bum to move them out her way, but then they move with no fuss… so is that ok?

Successful overnight in their permanent home!

Luna and Atlas were just flopped together and Nimbus climbed over them to squish in the middle it was the cutest thing I’ve ever seen. Neither of them were even bothered by being climbed over good signs. Will monitor again tonight then it will have been 48 hours of only positive behaviour, fingers crossed.

Haha, the sad thing is that Nimbus would happily allow himself to be bun-napped by anyone

Ok I’m calling it. 48 hours of only positive behaviour.

I HAVE A TRIO!

Thank you all! It’s such a relief, and SO nice to see them all hanging out together. They seem to have a nice dynamic so far. I’m watching very carefully to make sure no bun is being left out, but they seem happy to go around as a group, and I’ve also seen them lounging in all combinations of pairs.

I have all my fingers crossed for your lot Dana! I’m sure you’ll get there, I just hope the process isn’t too exhausting for you!