I'm new to Rabbits and need SO MUCH HELP

FORUM

What are we about? Please read about our Forum Culture and check out the Rules.

BUNNY 911 – If your rabbit hasn’t eaten or pooped in 12-24 hours, call a vet immediately! Don’t have a vet? Check out VET RESOURCES

The subject of intentional breeding or meat rabbits is prohibited. The answers provided on this board are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. It is your responsibility to assess the information being given and seek professional advice/second opinion from your veterinarian and/or qualified behaviorist.

BINKYBUNNY FORUMS

This topic has 8sd replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 8 years, 3 months ago by Giraffly.

Viewing 8 reply threads

Author

Messages
- 01/28/2018 at 10:08 AM
  Giraffly
  Participant
  5 posts
  This is rather disturbing, so don’t read if you are of a sensitive disposition (warning added by Bam):
  
  Story time, some background information:
  You can skip this and go to the TL;DR (Too long;Didn’t Read) portion below.
  
  Hello there, my name is Hana and I work as a dog groomer in Israel at a local Pet Supplies and Pet Shop store. Throughout my years of working there, they got rabbits during my one off year when I went to volunteer for the government. When I returned I was shocked and appalled at the inhumane treatments these rabbits were getting!
  
  The females were perpetually pregnant since they were housed with a buck, and their litters died overnight because it was so cold at the store along with the fact that the rabbits were kept outside in a larger enclosure during the day (through all seasons mind you; heat of summer or cold of winter) so any nesting attempts they made during that time were worthless. The kits would be born underfoot of about 4 rabbits in total, and trampled and scratched up and dead by the time anyone found them at 9 am when the store opened.
  It was a horrible and sickening treatment.
  Each rabbit was so frail and sickly, their fur was clumpy and thin, and they were so skittish and scared of humans.
  
  There was no proper separation between bucks either, and if someone made the mistake of putting ALL the rabbits out at once, the bucks would be covered in painful scabs about the size of my thumb by the end of the day, leaving blood trails everywhere.
  
  There are two distinctions I should make about the rabbits at work:
  There is the ‘Harem’ which consists of all brown rabbits and made up of 1 buck, and 3 does. (I don’t know what happened to the 4th. I came into work one day and she was gone. I feared the worst. And I never could find out what happened.) They are kept in an empty fish aquarium.
  
  Then there are a series of ‘Bachelors’ that all exist in odd cages of whatever will work. (Right now there are 2 of Bachelors in cages that are much too small.) Sometimes these switch out with the other store that takes much better care of them, but can only house about 2 or 3 at a time.
  
  I currently live at home while I study for SATs to enter college next year. So after speaking with my family about the situation, and going over everything I’d need to do and prepare (I’ve logged over 60 hours of Rabbit research, but this is the first time I’m going to the online forums personally for help.) so I could at least take home the Does:
  My plan was to separate the ‘Harem’ and keep the Does with me so they could try and have a successful litter and keep the kits from dying. And hopefully, to sell them and get them adopted from my house rather than return them to the pet shop.
  I took home 1 Doe (Her name is Mona) that I knew was giving birth sometime that week, but I missed her birthing by 1 day and found the dead and frozen litter in the outside enclosure. (She had given birth during the day?? I couldn’t find much information about this online. . . .I have no clue why she did this. I assume she realized that after 6 litters from 3/4 does that all died, maybe she should try something different and adapted. Is this possible?)
  She was left overnight with the buck and other does; no doubt impregnated again. So I took Mona home anyways to let her rest and relax a bit to try and get her strength up for the next litter.
  
  Upon her arrival and her getting used to me, I made the shocking discovery of just HOW thin Mona was: I could feel every bone and count every rib. Her shoulder blades were getting to the point that they started to rub together and the spines on her back were actually protruding a bit when petted. I made plans to take home the other 2 Does as soon as possible. Lisa and Lola joined their sister Mona 2 days later.
  
  TL;DR:
  So now I have 3 Does living with me! And here’s where I need some help. . . . This legit happened about 1 hour ago.
  
  I knew juuuust about when another Doe was due (Lisa), and I marked my Calendar for Jan 31st/Feb 1st. But lo and behold, when I was cleaning out their pen today, there were kits in the nesting Box I had built and introduced to them!
  I had already moved Mona and Lola elsewhere so I could clean easier, but I discovered the kits before I moved Momma Lisa.. Finished up cleaning and left her alone instead.
  I believe they might have been born last night or the night before Momma was a bit alert and nervous so I have yet to check on the state of the kits. But I saw some pink legs and bodies squirming and moving from underneath the fur~!
  
  I went to check on Mona and Lola and I saw something terrifying . . . .Lola was tearing at something and upon closer inspection it was a Kit!
  I had moved her no more than 5-10 minutes ago MAX! I freaked out and got my Mother who had a Nursing degree once upon a time and wouldn’t hyperventilate at the sight of blood like I would. She dealt with the dead kit while I made up a makeshift Nesting box to put in the room with Lola and Mona since I for SURE wasn’t going to move them right after that! (The nesting box is a cardboard box with a shirt over it so that the neck hole makes an entrance. Filled with clothe, hay, and a bit of fluff and fur from the other nesting box.)
  Mother asked me to look up newborn kits, “Like, really new. With the umbilical cord like this kit had.” and she realized that this kit must have been born prematurely, judging by how unformed the eyes were and other features around the face and limbs. So now I have some questions:
  
  -Did Lola give birth prematurely because I carried her? Or was I handling her incorrectly? Or because of stress from being moved? Some other reason?
  
  -Will 2 Does share the same kit box? In case there were other premature kits born with the others?
  
  -Can I keep 2 Does together in the same enclosure each with their own litter and own nesting boxes? (I could continue with the makeshift one, and change it every few days if it gets soiled) Will they try and harm the other litter?
  
  -What about Mona? The 3rd Doe that gave birth during the day, will she harm or cause trouble for the babies?
  
  -I had no clue what part of the cycle Lola was on, but because of this premature birth, how far along should I guess she is? (There aren’t other obvious signs of Kindling?)
  
  -What should I do about Lola now that she was moved to a different place and gave birth? (Only to 1 kit though) Should I leave her? Or move her back to her familiar cage?
  
  -Any other advice you can give me?
  
  I’ve spoken to the local vet. And as much as she disapproves of the inhumane treatment from the pet store, there’s nothing she can do about it or at least nothing she hasn’t already tried. I spoke with her on a few subjects, (Like how to treat wounds for the Bucks that were always fighting) but she isn’t the most helpful, and actually doesn’t know too much about rabbits, along with refusing to do a Spay or Neuter for a rabbit because “It’s too small to do such a surgery.”
  She recommended I try to talk to vets in Tel Aviv (2 hours by car away) since she didn’t know of anyone nearby that did much with Rabbits.
  Everything I’ve done so far has been from online research and now I’m going to the forums. Please, I’m desperate here!
- 01/28/2018 at 12:00 PM
  Bam
  Moderator
  17035 posts
  Thank you for doing this for these poor bunnies!
  
  I think you should separate the three mothers. They need one nestbox each. This is to ensure they don’t get into fights due to stress. They won’t lie with their kits as I’m sure you’ve read about, they just go to feed them once or twice per day. Breeders have one big enclosure per mum and kits, then they seperate the babies from their mother at around 6 weeks. The kits then remain together until they’re 8 weeks and ready to go to new homes.
  
  The does need extra food while they are lactating.
  
  It’s not really possible to say why Lola miscarried, stress is likely to have had something to do with it but there can be other reasons. I’m afraid I don’t know if a bun can miscarry one baby and carry the rest of a litter to term. I think you should separate her from the other two anyway though. It’s good if the buns can be kept in the same room so they can see and hear and smell each other. It will make them feel safer.
  
  As I said in my PM to you earlier, you might find more people with bunny breeding-experience at the forums RabbitsOnline, their Rabbitry and Showroom-section http://www.rabbitsonline.net/forumdisplay.php?f=20
- 01/28/2018 at 12:40 PM
  Giraffly
  Participant
  5 posts
  Lisa was starting to get nervous and anxious after being alone for so long so I moved Lola and Mona back in (Using a different carrying system, so as not to upset their bellies. I used a shirt and held it up so it was kind of like a hammock, then carried them in my arms and the hammock securing underneath them)
  but I’ll see about getting another enclosure made up as soon as possible. All 3 does are currently in my room, so they’ll definitely be able to be near one another. Hopefully Lola can be separated again within the hour.
  
  So far, I had no clue there had been any kits born, and found it very strange that Mona had taken on Lisa’s usual ‘Careful, I’m watching you, don’t get near our box’ attitude. (which I had researched about and found that that’s usual for Moms close to the end of their terms.)
  And when I pulled back the awning over their box and bench, I realized why and Mona and Lisa kept nudging me and sniffing me. Is it possible that Mona is being protective of her sister and her litter?
  These 3 have been squashed together for so long, they’re really very pack-like and get nervous when separated. I’ll have to make their enclosures side by side so they can relax.
  
  Hopefully the rest of Lola’s litter will be fine, hopefully. . . .and she went straight back to her springy and sassy and sweet self after an hour or so hopefully she’ll be alright at least.
  
  Thank you so much. You’ve been a wonderful help, and hopefully there won’t be any more unexpected tragedies!!
- 01/28/2018 at 1:33 PM
  Bam
  Moderator
  17035 posts
  Buns can be protective of their friends or humans, and Mona was recently a mother (and might be soon again), so I’d say there’s a good chance her hormones makes her protective of Lisa’s babies.
  
  I’m sorry I don’t know more about baby buns =(
- 01/28/2018 at 1:42 PM
  Deleted User
  Participant
  22064 posts
  Does will eat their kits if there is something wrong with them. Just allow nature to run its course. Normally you would never see this or see evidence of it happening. But obviously because you are rightfully checking on them often in their condition you witnessed it. But it is normal. A doe however will never eat her kits once fur has begun to grow. Please keep in mind however that a doe may eat her kits if you handle them during the first week. As the doe’s do not know you yet as their handler I would not handle the kits at all right now and if you need to, make sure you rub your hands through her coat first!
  
  I would keep the females separate. They are unspayed and territorial and may harm each others young. So I wouldn’t make them shear the same nesting box.
  
  First time mothers are in experienced and sometimes they may not make a nest until later. The best thing is just to allow nature to take its course. The does didn’t become accustomed to their environment long before giving birth hence why they are acting like this.
  
  I think its great what you have done saving these bunnies! If the babies do not make it you would have saved the mothers who are not really in much state to be mothers. So try not to get to upset if the young do not suvive. But for now allow nature to do its thing otherwise the mother may either kill them or abandon them.
- 01/28/2018 at 2:16 PM
  Giraffly
  Participant
  5 posts
  Alrighty, just glad that doesn’t mean Mona might have been trying to ‘claim’ the litter as hers or something. Whew!
  
  Not a problem, baby buns I’ve been studying and I hope that the Mommas are smart about them, but it’s the Mommas themselves I’ve got questions about, so all info is helpful!
- 01/28/2018 at 2:27 PM
  Giraffly
  Participant
  5 posts
  Posted By Emma on 1/28/2018 1:42 PM
  
  Does will eat their kits if there is something wrong with them. Just allow nature to run its course. Normally you would never see this or see evidence of it happening. But obviously because you are rightfully checking on them often in their condition you witnessed it. But it is normal. A doe however will never eat her kits once fur has begun to grow. Please keep in mind however that a doe may eat her kits if you handle them during the first week. As the doe’s do not know you yet as their handler I would not handle the kits at all right now and if you need to, make sure you rub your hands through her coat first!
  
  I would keep the females separate. They are unspayed and territorial and may harm each others young. So I wouldn’t make them shear the same nesting box.
  
  First time mothers are in experienced and sometimes they may not make a nest until later. The best thing is just to allow nature to take its course. The does didn’t become accustomed to their environment long before giving birth hence why they are acting like this.
  
  I think its great what you have done saving these bunnies! If the babies do not make it you would have saved the mothers who are not really in much state to be mothers. So try not to get to upset if the young do not suvive. But for now allow nature to do its thing otherwise the mother may either kill them or abandon them.
  
  ——-
  
  I’m aware mothers will eat their kits during specific situations, but because this was such a surprise and really I had no clue about it, I’m a bit worried. . . . there’s no other signs of kindling and Lola is acting as if nothing happened.
  They won’t eat them once fur has begun to grow? That I didn’t know . . . . and will be very important to keep in mind in the future. And I’ll try to at least view the kits if not to touch them, just to find out how many, if they’re alive, warm and fed, etc.
  
  I’ll be watching them, they’ve lived through each others litters before at the pet shop and have never bothered them, and they’ve actually been taking shifts watching and protecting the nest as 1 stays behind while the other two will drink or eat and then they’ll switch. I also know that they get highly anxious when separated, so i have to figure out a placement where all 3 of them are in close capacity to each other.
  
  Alrighty. That explains Lola. Hopefully she’ll pick up cues from Lisa and letting them be for awhile with positive reinforcement will be helpful.
  Because Lola miscarried the 1 kit, is it possible she has lost the rest of the possible litter or is it possible they’re still intact
  
  You’re right! Worse comes to worse, the mothers can survive and find happy homes hopefully. Thank you so much for your help, I really appreciate all this new information!
- 01/28/2018 at 2:40 PM
  Deleted User
  Participant
  22064 posts
  Posted By Giraffly on 1/28/2018 2:27 PM
  
  Posted By Emma on 1/28/2018 1:42 PM
  
  Does will eat their kits if there is something wrong with them. Just allow nature to run its course. Normally you would never see this or see evidence of it happening. But obviously because you are rightfully checking on them often in their condition you witnessed it. But it is normal. A doe however will never eat her kits once fur has begun to grow. Please keep in mind however that a doe may eat her kits if you handle them during the first week. As the doe’s do not know you yet as their handler I would not handle the kits at all right now and if you need to, make sure you rub your hands through her coat first!
  
  I would keep the females separate. They are unspayed and territorial and may harm each others young. So I wouldn’t make them shear the same nesting box.
  
  First time mothers are in experienced and sometimes they may not make a nest until later. The best thing is just to allow nature to take its course. The does didn’t become accustomed to their environment long before giving birth hence why they are acting like this.
  
  I think its great what you have done saving these bunnies! If the babies do not make it you would have saved the mothers who are not really in much state to be mothers. So try not to get to upset if the young do not suvive. But for now allow nature to do its thing otherwise the mother may either kill them or abandon them.
  
  ——-
  
  I’m aware mothers will eat their kits during specific situations, but because this was such a surprise and really I had no clue about it, I’m a bit worried. . . . there’s no other signs of kindling and Lola is acting as if nothing happened.
  They won’t eat them once fur has begun to grow? That I didn’t know . . . . and will be very important to keep in mind in the future. And I’ll try to at least view the kits if not to touch them, just to find out how many, if they’re alive, warm and fed, etc.
  
  I’ll be watching them, they’ve lived through each others litters before at the pet shop and have never bothered them, and they’ve actually been taking shifts watching and protecting the nest as 1 stays behind while the other two will drink or eat and then they’ll switch. I also know that they get highly anxious when separated, so i have to figure out a placement where all 3 of them are in close capacity to each other.
  
  Alrighty. That explains Lola. Hopefully she’ll pick up cues from Lisa and letting them be for awhile with positive reinforcement will be helpful.
  Because Lola miscarried the 1 kit, is it possible she has lost the rest of the possible litter or is it possible they’re still intact
  
  You’re right! Worse comes to worse, the mothers can survive and find happy homes hopefully. Thank you so much for your help, I really appreciate all this new information!
  
  No problem! First time mother rabbits are not the best. Normally when one kit has been born that normally means that the others have been eaten. Either because something was wrong with them or that the mother is inexperienced. But you find that the more they breed the more appear in the nest.
  
  No they do not normally eat kits once they are old enough to have fur. This is not to say they wont abandon them however. But its those first few days that are crucial – especially the first 24 hours! If the mother sends more time in the nest during these hours that is fine just leave her be. If not them try not to get to obsessed as to weather the babies are eating (as you will). But normally you will hardly see the mums nurse. The less of the babies the fatter they will be as they have the whole milk bar to themselves 🙂
- 01/28/2018 at 3:17 PM
  Giraffly
  Participant
  5 posts
  I believe this is their first time in an actual proper environment. . . . Lisa made a very good mother about a month ago and that litter had lasted 4 whole days, breaking the record of all the other 1-day litters. So hopefully she’ll be on top of this. . . . I had noticed that after a few days, she wouldn’t eat the dead kits but was still protective of them, so now that makes sense as to why. (Thanks for that info!)
  
  I’ll try checking tomorrow just by lifting the nesting box lid, and trying to count how many and see if I can spot anything. Otherwise, I’ll let them be for another evening or two before actually handling!
  
  Thanks so much for all of your help, I really appreciate it!
Author

Messages

Viewing 8 reply threads

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.