Thanks guys! As much as we miss Moose, we are also so happy that we can give Bun Jovi a loving home. He is so so loving and he acts like he’s known us for years. Hoping things go smoothly with the rest of bonding!

He came to us with that name, and it was just too good to change it. Same with Bertha actually  

Skipped dating yesterday as I just didn’t have time, but had a good 4th session today. Since they did well on the washing machine I felt comfortable taking them on a car ride in a bin together to the shelter (about 15 min), then about 40 min in an exercise pen at the shelter, then about 15 min car ride home. I’ve been using a large rubbermaid tub with some NIC cube grids laid on top to keep them from jumping out.

They were very good in the car, snuggled together a bit, no nipping. Very good at the shelter as well. Spent some time exploring around, had some respectful interest in each other (ears always forward). They were a bit distracted by the bunnies in the neighboring pens, at one point Bertha seemed to get a bit jealous that BJ was “flirting” with the girl next door. One point where Bertha wanted grooms, and gave a little lunge when he didn’t, he backed off. Then back to as they were before.

Overall I think they are doing great. Even though they didn’t relax near each other (which is what I’m hoping to see next), they didn’t seem tense in general.

Might repeat this tomorrow, or at least the car ride portion, depending on how they seem tonight. They didn’t seem overly stressed when we got home (went back to grooming, chewing things, eating hay pretty quickly), so that’s good. Honestly they seemed more stressed after 15 minutes on the washing machine!

Aww, thank you! 

The lady at the rescue said this is happiest she’s seen Bun Jovi, and they aren’t even bonded yet. 

Date 5 went really well! Same structure as date 4: car ride in a bin (15 min) + 45 minutes at the rescue in one of their pens + 15 car ride home. 

Absolutely no nipping, no aggression at all in the car or in the pen. The snuggled together a lot in the car. I was careful to chose a pen that didn’t have bunnies on both sides so they would be less distracted. Once in the pen, they explored for a bit, and seemed very non-plussed by each other. A few times they were very near each other checking out what was going on in the next pen over. Then BJ settled down in one corner. Bertha would wander around, then come up to him and ask for grooms. He would also put his head down. Then (since he didn’t groom her), she would simply turn away and leave. This happened probably about 4 or 5 times over the course of the 45 minutes. Both seemed pretty relaxed during these interactions. I’m very pleased to see her showing that she needs to be groomed without resorting to lunging or nipping at him. 

Eventually Bertha did lay down for a few minutes (which I was hoping for). BJ never got that relaxed, but did explore a bit eventually:

Again, I’ll see how they seem tonight to decide what to do tomorrow. We seem to be making progress with this strategy, but if they seem stressed tonight we might take a day off, or just do the car ride alone. They both seemed fine when we got home (ate some pellets, groomed, settled down for their mid-day sleep).

6th session: Couldn’t take them to the shelter today, and I kinda wanted to give them a break from the prolonged stress anyway. I did need to vacuum though, which I figure is stressful either way. So, I put them in the plastic bin and had my husband supervise while I vacuumed. 

There was a little nipping by both of them, but nothing very hard. I think this stemmed from the fact that they knew they were in the apartment still and were trying to escape. 

After I finished vacuuming, I took them for a walk around the block in the bin before putting them back in their condos, and they were fine on the walk. Bertha was actually draped over Bun Jovi, and neither seemed to mind once we were outside. 

If I try this technique again,  will take them on a walk first, to disorient them a little. Overall not my favorite strategy, but figured I would try it (vs. not doing a session at all today).

I didn’t time it, but I think the whole date lasted about 15-20 minutes.

A quick update, took a day off after the 6th session (I had jury duty), then the next day took them back to the shelter for the 7th session.

I thought it went really well. Towards the beginning they spent a lot of time near each other, and during that time they were mostly interested in everything except each other (like random roosters crowing and dogs barking). Bun Jovi was even sniffing the ground near Bertha’s bum and she didn’t seem worried at all. They groomed themselves near each other, explored the pen a lot. About 40 minutes in Bertha groomed Bun Jovi a little! But then when he kept asking she chased him off. I didn’t need to intervene other than yelling “HEY” and clapping. A few minutes later Bun Jovi ran by Bertha (but because he was interested in something else) and she lunged at him, but didn’t actually nip. He looked surprised haha.

We went for an hour in the pen. By the end of the hour they were basically back to the beginning, OK with being near each other, but Bun Jovi seemed pretty stressed.

That was all on Friday. I went out of town that evening, and had a pet sitter looking after them Sat morning, and then my husband took over Sat night. I was a little worried because Bun Jovi was pretty stressed by the ordeal, but by the time I left he was eating and grooming, etc. Our pet sitter said he ate fine (as long as she wasn’t standing near him), and my husband said he was doing great. When I got home last night he was relaxing and ate his dinner no problem.

Now it’s Monday, and I feel like Bun Jovi is still somewhat grumpy and may be mad at me. He has never stopped eating, but it seems like he’s eating less hay, and is just more withdrawn. He would thump at our pet sitter any time she went near him. He is letting me pet him though, and will relax into it.

I can’t tell if he’s just grumpy at me for all this bonding, or if he may be gassy? He did come out and explore this morning, and was doing his usual corner digging all morning. I am tempted to give simethicone just in case, but then if he is grumpy I don’t want to handle him any more than I need to.

Is this level of grumpiness normal? He was just so outgoing at first, but that was before I started subjecting him to car rides in a bin! Poor guy.

At any rate, once I am confident he isn’t sick in some way, I think I will try my bathroom for their next session and see how that goes. I think the car and shelter is just too stressful for him to do regularly.

After I wrote this I gave him a thorough snuggle, back massage, and tummy rub (he seemed to like it and his tummy felt fine). Of course now he’s running around, throwing hay around, and just generally being active.

So either I’m just a paranoid mommy, or he was sad and needed some cuddles. :p

That’s funny that you say that, none of my bunnies have ever liked simethicone, but I just offered him some (thinking, “well, if Ophelia likes it, maybe he will”), and he loved it!

Good to know I can give it to him without handling, he licked straight from the syringe.

And yeah, I agree about trying home sessions next! Ideally I would like to marathon them, but I am pretty busy this week and this weekend, so that will prob have to wait until next weekend. I like the shelter for the first few sessions to establish a pattern of not fighting, but I think they are ready to date at home. I’m planning to disguise my bathroom with cardboard and blankets, so hopefully Bertha doesn’t recognize it too much.

After an afternoon of pushing extra greens, simethicone, calls to the vet, and just generally fussing over Bun Jovi, he seems to be back to normal!

Eating his hay and normal poops, whew! The world may never know whether he was just sleepy (I was fussing over him during a time when I’m normally at work), or whether all the fussing was necessary.

Will definitely give him a couple days to make sure he’s super solid before doing another session, and will be trying one at home!

hahaha glad it’s not just me!

I do think something was actually up with him as his overnight hay consumption was not as high as normal, but he’s 100% back to normal as of last night!

I talked to the shelter about it and she said he probably wasn’t mad about the bonding, but was probably mad at me for going out of town (even though he had great care-givers)! ha!

I didn’t do any sessions for basically a week, because I wanted to make sure Bun Jovi wasn’t too stressed.

Friday we had their 7th session, in my bathroom in a pen with blankets over the sides to disguise it a bit. Went for about 3 hours, and it was interesting. There were more positive behaviors (relaxing, grooming themselves, eating hay), but also a bit more tense, with a bit more aggression (lunging, “bopping” with front paws”). It was all easily stopped with the vacuum cleaner.

Saturday was session 8, same set up, for about an hour (that’s all I had time for). Basically the same as session 7. I decided my goal for session 9 would be a long session, of at least 4 + hours.

That brings me to now, session 9, which has been eventful in not a super positive way, but I think things are improving (session is in progress, about 1.5 hrs in now). I lined the pen with newspaper this time, so soak up any pee, but apparently that was a mistake because the date started out way more tense than any others. I put them in the pen and they almost immediately started fighting. Boxing, biting, fur pulling. Bun Jovi got a pretty good chunk of Bertha’s fur…. left a red mark on her skin. Not a bad wound, but definitely got her skin a bit. I don’t think it was bad enough to warrant ending the date… but I don’t know if we will go as long as I planned. Although part of me feels like it’s MORE important to do the long session now.

Since the only think I could think of that was different was the newspaper, I’ve removed that, and done some smooshing and banana on heads. Bertha licked it off Bun Jovi, but when he tried to lick hers off she boxed him. WHAT THE HECK. They have now calmed down a lot, and have spent a lot of time laying down. Everytime BJ goes near Bertha though, she lunges at him. Thankfully now it seems like he is backing down and is acting more like hims elf

I wonder if the newspaper made it hard for BJ to see Bertha? I know his vision isn’t great… so that’s my guess. He was acting like a different rabbit…. so weird.

If they have another outburst I am going to put them in the bin and walk around my neighborhood with them.

I’m bummed. I thought we were making great progress but I feel like this was a big step back, all over some stupid newspaper, or who knows why. Maybe it was inevitable and they need to go through some hard times to sort things out, but it still sucks.

A little real-time update on session 9 (still in progress):

Now about 3 hours in, and both bunnies have eaten lots hay and both just mega-flopped at almost the same time. They are on opposite sides of the pen, but at least they feel relaxed enough to chill out. I was pretty worried for the first hour… and have been intervening with the vacuum sooner than I normally would just to make sure nothing escalates again.

I’m still mad at myself for letting the fight happen.. I was right there watching them and the usual tactics (yelling, vacuum, etc) just didn’t work, so I physically had to pry them apart. It was so out of character for Bun Jovi…. it really must have been the newspaper!!

I’m thankful they calmed down again and are seemingly back to where they were yesterday.

We’re back at the shelter today for session 10, about and hour and a half in now, and things seem more back to normal. I really think the newspaper did through them off! No issues in the car on the way here, so significant squabbles.

The shelter coordinator today was saying she went to a conference where they had some glasses that allowed you to see the way rabbits see, and it was somewhat pixellated and blurry, so she thought the newspaper thing made a lot of sense. It probably was just overwhelming to them!

The shelter session went well. Nothing groundbreaking, but no scuffling aside from one nippy moment, so that was a plus. We ended up there for about 3 hours.

Planning to do another longer session in my bathroom tonight, and gauge whether they backslide at all. Definitely will NOT be putting any newspaper in! I might even start by putting them on the washing machine for a few minutes before hand just to be safe.

Date 11 in progress in the bathroom, about 45 minutes in. A few tense moments that weren’t too hard to diffuse with the bathroom. BJ is spending more time close to Bertha (but that may be because the vacuum is at the other end of the pen). 

Here they are both eating hay: 

And here they are a few seconds later! Bun Jovi flopped first, then Bertha.  

Bun Jovi hasn’t been aggressive towards Bertha at all, but has been approaching her with ears forward. She’s boxed him away each time (I’ve run the vacuum right away when he doesn’t immediately back away). I can’t quite get a read on his behavior, but a couple of the times this has happened, he’s flopped right after with his back to her. 

I don’t think she has quite forgiven him for that chunk of fur he pulled, but I think maybe he’s trying to demonstrate he can be trusted? 

At any rate, I’m pleased with how this is going so far. 

They are such flops! I always think they look like little pigs when they are flopped.

Ended up going for about 2 hrs. Ended with BJ flopped, kinda stretched towards Bertha, Bertha eating hay.

If things continue like this with no major incidents for the rest of the week I might try marathoning this weekend….

Date 12 – about 2 hours. I didn’t have time to date them yesterday, but was able to squeeze in a shorter session this morning.

It was meh. No bad fighting, but a few times BJ would come up to Bertha to ask for grooms, and when she grunted or boxed him away, he didn’t back down, so I had to use the vacuum. One time she tried to leave and he followed her. What a brat!

They did spend lots to time eating, grooming themselves, and laying down, so not terrible, just more of the same.

Planning on a shelter session tomorrow, then some 8 hour sessions this weekend in my office, so hopefully we make some headway in a new space. I would start marathoning them, but my hubby is out of town next week, so I don’t really want to spend three nights sleeping on the floor right before he leaves, only to have to separate them on Monday when I have to go to work.

They also don’t seem to have the pattern of “feisty for the first hour then fine”. Rather, they will have periods of about 30 min of peace, followed by a brief dominance display that I usually have to break up.

All of this is different at the shelter though, where they have much more relaxed encounters. I think this is because BJ is much more affected by the new space and doesn’t assert himself the same way he does at home (although the last shelter date he did spray pee all over the place).

I am just a magnet for stubborn dominant buns!

Date 13, about 3 hours total including the car ride to and from the shelter. 

Overall pretty positive, but a couple of chasing incidents that were mostly due to nosey neighbor bunnies that confused them. 

Bertha spend about 90% of the time near BJ (maybe partly because I put hay next to him…), and then about an hour in this happened: 

Yay!

A few minutes later BJ started to lay down, but I think Bertha thought he was lunging at her and they started chasing. Stopped em, petted em, and then they calmed down again. Then she laid down near him again: 

BJ does NOT like it at the shelter. Tomorrow I will probably try my office! 

Total time in my office about 6 hours (longest date so far!). 

Started out surprisingly testy. BJ pulled a chunk of fur from Bertha’s cheek, which is scary. Towards the end of the last session things got a little heated because a neighboring bunny started Bun Jovi, and then there was a bit of a miscommunication between Bertha and BJ. So maybe they were picking up where they left off? 

Any way, I was ready for it, and petted them a while until they calmed down. For the last hour or so they have mostly been resting. BJ has flopped a few times, both have eaten hay and pooped. A couple of nose to nose encounters where Bertha will grunt and “pounce”. A few minutes ago another tense interaction. When neither looks like they will back down I have been using a NIC cube grid to stick between them to de-escalate (since I don’t have my vacuum here!). 

I go back and forth between thinking they will be bonded soon, and having no idea how long this will take! 

Overall the session here is very similar to how they have been in my bathroom, which is interesting because this space is totally neutral, so I think it means they are just more active in both places because it is less stressful. It also means I can probably just continue with bathroom sessions and not worry about bringing them here too many times. I was kind of hoping for a big improvement in this space, but so far nothing too different. 

Date 15:
Monday night, bathroom, about 3 hours. Only had to physically intervene once, had to run the vacuum once or twice. Last half to date I didn’t have to intervene at all. Started it off a little differently this time. I got their veggies ready to feed them their dinner (so they got all excited in anticipation), then started the date. I had fed them veggies, and they both did great. Bertha was so preoccupied eating that she didn’t mind Bun Jovi being a few inches from her. Much better than starting with a tiff as they usually do. The rest of the date was similar to other sessions. Bun Jovi keeps approaching and asking for grooms, and Bertha is having none of it. He sure is persistent! I considered pushing and making it an overnight, but I really wanted to get some sleep. Turns out I didn’t sleep well anyway, as BJ was thumping and throwing his food bowl around all night anyway!

Date 16:

Bathroom again, Tuesday late morning, a bit over 3 hours. No tiffs or anything in the first 45 min, so that’s good. A brief nose to nose grunting/boxing match where no one was backing down somewhere around the hour mark, so I ran the vacuum for a sec.

Overall it was a peaceful date, the both slept most the time and ate some hay. BJ didn’t approach Bertha for grooms as much, and didn’t mind when she was near him eating.

We shall see…. Might try another session tonight. I really don’t have time for a true marathon, but I can aim to do multiple long sessions a day when I can. These bathroom sessions are much less stressful on them and easier for me to manage (they eat and poop just fine and I can work during), so I think we are at the point where more is better. All I can say is thank goodness for laptops!

Date 17 (Tuesday evening, second session of the day, bathroom, 2.5 hours).

Boy, these two are certainly keeping me on my toes as to who will be dominant. Every time I think Bun Jovi is about to groom Bertha he will put his head down and ask instead. A minute ago I was certain I was about to see a breakthrough, but instead he just bopped her on the head with his feet when she wouldn’t groom him. What a PUNK! Cue grunting, head bopping, no one backing down, eventual vacuum for a second.

At first these exchanges weren’t really escalating too dramatically, but towards the end of the date I had to intervene a bit and some fur was pulled. Things are definitely feistier tonight than this morning, prob just due to time of day, and the fact that they aren’t getting to run around. I’m have been trying not to run the vacuum until it seems clear that no one is going to back down right away. Bun Jovi was honestly being kind of a bully to Bertha at the end. She was just trying to lay down and rest, and he kept coming over and harassing her. I think she definitely felt cornered… I wish we had more space… hmmm. 

I started out the date very hopeful, ended somewhat discouraged (after about 2.5 hours). Maybe I just pushed too long today? Maybe not giving them exercise time first was a mistake? Maybe both? 

I’m personally biased, because I assumed Bertha would be dominant, but Bun Jovi is being much more assertive and not giving an inch. I also get the feeling he would be very demanding and needing (as this is what he’s like with me!). 

Blah. 

STUBBORN BUNS. Can you two just sort things out already?

I am not sure whether to push harder at this point, or ease up. Maybe feelings are still too hurt from the newspaper incident? Stress seems to disproportionately effect Bun Jovi. Bertha behaves pretty similarly regardless of where we are, but BJ is a wild card. If he is going to be dominant, I think stressing too much could delay that. But if he keeps bullying Bertha I might need to throw in a stress session occasionally. 

I’m prob over analyzing and most likely should just continue as I’ve been…. I just expected things to be less up and down with these two. 

Bun Jovi has actually been bonded twice before, so I think we have the opposite problem: two bunnies used to getting their way!

He’s isn’t totally charging at her, and I can tell they are getting better at communicating. He’s been very slowly approaching, ears forward, then putting his head down when he gets close. Then she doesn’t groom, and then they get feisty. I do think they were getting a little stir crazy, so I prob pushed it too late (or needed to let them run around first), as those same sorts of interactions earlier in the day didn’t develop into anything.

I think Bertha made a mistake in that she’s groomed him twice now, once on the first date. It’s like, girl, don’t groom at all if you don’t want to groom! Mixed signals!

The floor is linoleum, cleaned with vinegar, so I think that’s fine. I didn’t clean it between the morning and evening sessions though, so that could have also had something to do with it. I just figured that they would just recognize it as the same space they had been in peacefully before.

Considering I took a week off of working with them, this was really probably closer to the 10th session in a row, so I’m not too discouraged. I just keep reminding myself of Bunston and Bertha, where at this point we were at 5 minute sessions because they would attack each other! I also read back through Vienna’s thread on Henry and Zhou for encouragement!

Date 18 (I think?)

Wanted to try something different, so tried a smaller space (since it’s the one thing I hadn’t tried so far). Made the pen smaller in my bathroom, and hung up different blankets around it. Put some pine pellets and hay down to soak up any pee.

Not good. Near immediate scuffling, a lot like the newspaper date. Two bunny tornadoes in the first 10 minutes, used a broom to break it up. They calmed down for a while, and I thought (falsely) that maybe we had reached a turning point. Then about an hour in another major squabble. Lots of fur flying, both trying to lock on to each other.

So, calmed them down, waited 5 minutes, and ended it. So, that method is OUT for these two.

UGH (to put it lightly.)

I’m not sure if they need a week or two break to cool off? Or if we should only be doing dates at the shelter? I just hate seeing Bun Jovi so scared in the car.

I might inquire there and see if anyone there would be willing to take them for a weekend…. they don’t offer formal bonding services, but I might be able to work something out with someone there…

I know everyone says that some fur pulling is necessary, but these two go almost immediately to trying to lock on to each other, biting and kicking.

Date 19 – Took them to the shelter for Jean (the shelter coordinator) to supervise the date so she could get a first hand view of their behavior. 

I think she is actually the bunny whisperer! 

Her goal was to break the cycle of them scuffling every time they approached each other, so she would pet pet pet every time they went nose to nose. I left to run and errand, and came back to Bertha very thoroughly grooming Bun Jovi! And that was the third grooming session in the 40 minutes since I had been gone! Granted, this was all with Jean still petting them, but hey, I’ll take it!

Jean takes a different approach than what is often pushed by some, and focuses on building positive associations. She isn’t a fan of letting them scuffle to sort things out. It did seem like they were getting into a habit of fighting every time Bun Jovi came up to Bertha, so the goal is to break that habit with lots and lots of petting. 

I’ll be bringing them back tomorrow for another session with Jean and then we’ll go from there.  

I did use this approach with Moose in the beginning, but I thought that in that case it might have slowed things down and had my doubts. But, now I think that it was the right move. In this case, it helps each bunny feel like the other bun approaching doesn’t always mean a fight is about to happen.

Date 20!

Another 1 hour session at the shelter today, supervised closely by Jean and the shelter volunteers. I didn’t get the full run-down on the date as Jean was pretty busy, but when I walked up they were nuzzling noses get pets from another volunteer. Then Bun Jovi gave Bertha some grooms! That is a big step in the right direction!

Not sure what to do next. If I try them at home again, I will definitely use this strategy of just petting them tons to keep building up these positive feelings. They also did well in the carrier, so I could possible just put them in the carrier, take them out to the car, and pet them there (even if we don’t drive around).

Yes, I had been interested to try the small space, because they have always been fine in a bin and the carrier, so who knows. Most likely the added stress made things smoother. I also wonder if using the same x-pen I always use to make the small space had anything to do with it?

I’ve sort of lost track of the number of dates, etc, but the past week has been more of the same, and I think we are getting back on track with things.

I tried the petting technique in my bath tub, because I wanted to make sure they had some contact at least every other day. It worked ok, but BJ did try to nip a bit. The petting does work wonderfully to calm them down though. I think we only lasted 15 min or so, because I could only handle sitting in my bathtub for so long….

I supervised one date at the shelter, and continued with the petting technique. Didn’t get as many grooms from Bertha as Jean did, but they both behaved in a relaxed way, and no scuffles.

Jean supervised another one (or two?), and got some grooming from Bertha.

Then over the weekend I took them both to “Hoppy hour”, which some of you might have seen on my instagram. Once a month the shelter sets up this HUGE pen on the lawn, and people can bring their bunnies to let them play with other bunnies. It was CUTE overload. They had “bunny bouncers”, who were shelter volunteers to supervise, and any bunnies that acted aggressively had to go on time out. There were toys and food all over the place.

It really was amazing to see first hand how rabbits’ first instinct in a neutral space is not to be aggressive, and by and large most rabbits just acted like kids at a play ground. Relaxing around each other, unbonded bunnies snuggling in baskets, stealing carrots from each other, binkying, etc. Of course some shy ones that wanted to hide (and there were plenty of hiding places for them), or just wanted to be with their moms haha

Bertha made lots of new friends (mostly with the staff, who always fawn over her) and LOVED being on the lawn. They don’t use any unsafe fertilizers or anything, so it was safe for them. One bunny seemed to have a crush on Bun Jovi and kept laying near him. They were both very good around the other bunnies. Probably neutral in terms of them bonding, but they did ride in the carrier to and from together, so that counts for something.

Today I didn’t really have time for a full session, but I did pop them in the carrier, walk outside, and then bring them back in so that I could switch their sides.

Tomorrow I will probably take them to the shelter to supervise a date myself in the morning. I really wish I could date them at home, but I think I need to wait until they don’t need such close supervision at the shelter to try that again.

There are definitely some bunnies that don’t do well. On of the lead staff has a bun that just does not like other bunnies, but loooves people, so he hangs out with the humans in the “time out” zone (so he still gets to munch on the grass, etc).

I think the fact that the area is HUGE helps, and there are many bunnies (so i think they are less likely to even try to stake out a territory), plus there are many trained eyes on them to prevent any fights.

I was there for almost 2 hours, and only saw 2 fur clumps pulled the whole time.

And yes, it kinda feels like nothing is happening, but they had a pretty positive session this morning, where Bertha hopped over and sat right next to BJ (side by side, as opposed to nose to nose), and hung out there for a while (I was also petting them both). This happened twice, and Bertha groomed BJ’s side a little at one point.

So I think we are taking baby steps.

Weird, looks like my last post never showed up, bummer because I put in some cute pictures of bunnies smooshed together. No matter…

The last session was good (Bertha groomed Bun Jovi several times with me supervising, and laid down near him), but today’s session was REALLY good!

They had been doing so well with all the petting, that today Jean wanted to try backing off the petting a bit to see how they did. She stayed in the pen with them, I lurked off to the side like a creep.

Bertha groomed Bun Jovi all on her own a few times! And she laid down right next to him about 3 times! After the first time she groomed him, they both got a little excited and nippy, but no fur was pulled, and Jean calmed them down by petting. After that there were no incidents!

Bertha is definitely relaxed around him now. Bun Jovi still is tense, but he didn’t run from her, and finally ate a little hay with her right at the end. The second half of the date Jean stepped just outside the pen, and they did quite well.

I would like to do a session tomorrow to keep this momentum going, but will have to play it by ear. The shelter is getting a lot of evacuees in again as there is another flash food warning tonight for areas near the fire. So, if things are really bad tomorrow with mudslides agai (hopefully not though) I prob will not take them in. I will also have to make sure neither are too stressed, as today was the 4th shelter session in a row this week, and I’m planning to take them in again on Sat for a longer session assuming the world doesn’t end.

Overall today was very good!

Yeah! The petting really does seem to have broken the cycle they were getting into. I found similar technique described by a rescue in Australia. They called it “desensitization” bonding, and it was very similar. They will basically start by placing the bunnies butt to butt on a table and pet them both for a while and swap scents. Then they will move up to side by side (like the smoosh), and so on. They argue that the main goal is to remove fear from the equation, since that’s what leads to aggression.

Now of course we have to wean them off the petting. Jean described it as having a friend that was introduced to you through another friend, and at first you only hang out as a group, with your original friend there. I think the idea here is that you start to trust that new friend (or at least not be afraid of them) with the original friend present. So now we have to make sure they can trust each other without us intervening so much.

BJ still hates the car, and is a grump at the shelter, but he’s back to normal in the evenings. He pouts all morning, when he thinks he’s going to have to go to the shelter! He does seem like he is OK once we are there though. He will groom himself a bit, and did eat a little hay yesterday towards the end of the date.

It’s not ideal having to take them there daily, but my plan is to continue shelter dates until they are super good without intervention (no nipping, relaxed behavior from both, grooming and snuggling), then I will likely return to using my bathroom as the “semi-neutral” space. Plus I do enjoy hanging out with all the other bunnies! I have a crush on this gorgeous big bunny who looks just like Bertha but has a chinchilla coat….”Elanor”…. if only I had tons of space!

I’m interested to see how this goes with transitions to new spaces and all that. With Bunston and Bertha, once Bunston groomed her, everything clicked into place within a week, and it was like they had been bonded forever. Moose and Bertha were a more gradual progression, with a marathon at the end to fully bond them. It seems like BJ and Bertha are making good progress with these 1-2 hour dates. Once we are sure that they aren’t going to fight anymore without petting, I will probably go for a longer session.

Shelter dates have been more of the same. Pretty calm, some grooming from Bertha, weaning off the petting.

I’ve been super slammed with work, plus I felt that Bertha was actually more stressed than she was letting on. She had some weird poops for a few hours after (and she NEVER has weird poops), so we haven’t done very many dates this week. (Took Sunday off, shelter on Monday, nothing Tuesday, and not sure about today (wed…).

Given their stress level and my time constraints, plus the fact that we’ll need to go back there sooner or later. I think I will try them there again, but go back several steps and pet lots and lots to start. I am thinking of putting down some foam play mats on the floor to make it less familiar. I also have some black plastic sheeting I can pin to the walls, so they have more space, but won’t recognize it.

Then I will slowly increase the time it takes to start petting over several dates. I also might walk around with them in the carrier outside first to disorient them a little.

Ok, so the bathroom date went well, even after two days of no dates!

I put plastic sheeting on the walls and play mats down over the floor, so it looked and smelled completely unfamiliar. Then I put the buns in the carrier, walked around with them outside for a minute, then brought them into the bathroom in the carrier. I sat in the area with them. After a minute or two of sniffing, they came nose to nose and I petted. Kept petting for probably 5 minutes, then Bertha started grooming BJ! Pretty thoroughly too!

Overall I think she groomed him 2 or 3 times, the last time was very thorough. At one point I think she got a bit rough and he flinched, but I just kept petting.

In between these sessions they mostly explored and tried to find escape routes. I had a heck of a time keeping them from chewing on the play mats.

Session was about 30 min. Put them back in the carrier, and walked outside again at the end of the session.

Will work up to longer, and will gradually decrease the amount of petting. Not sure how this set up will work with less involvment from me, since they are both trying to eat everything, but I’ll deal with that obstacle when we get there.

yeah! another decent session today. I modified the play mats a little so there weren’t as many areas to chew. It did make the area smaller, but still big enough for me to sit in with them.

This time we went for a little over an hour. Pretty similar to the last one. Bertha groomed quite a bit after being petted for a while. At one point they happily shared pellets off the ground right from under each other’s faces. Bertha did a flop at one point, then laid down. Then BJ went up and kinda pushed his head near her back leg. Not sure if his intention was to nip, but I kept petting them both, and Bertha staying laying down, and BJ relaxed and flattened out. It was very cute.

Not quite cuddling, but getting closer. Just keep telling myself, patience patience patience…..

I will keep up with lots of petting for another couple dates, then start trying to pet less and see how they do.

Really good session today!

We went back to the shelter today, since I had time for a longer session, and it paid off! Started off petting them as usual, then tried to let them interact with less interference after that. They were pretty relaxed around each other, and were able to walk past one another without a dispute. They both ate hay while sitting right next to each other, then both relaxed for a bit.

Then, towards the 3 hour mark, they sat near each other (nose to nose, but not quite as forcefully smooshed), and I petted, but would stop for periods of time. They both stayed relaxed, and then Bun Jovi groomed Bertha! Probably for at least 30 seconds. Finally!

Then Bertha groomed him back, and they went back to relaxing.

Ended it there and went home. Whew! ***Sigh of relief****

Another good session today! Took them back to the shelter for about 2 hours, and it was really similar! BJ groomed Bertha very thoroughly at the end of the date! They smooshed faces, I petted lightly, then he started grooming, and then would groom himself, then go back to grooming her. I definitely got a little teary eyed <3

check my instagram for a video of the grooms @dana.n.morton

Had to take a few days off of bonding as I went camping for the weekend, but started back up yesterday and today at the shelter. Have been petting less. Yesterday was uneventful. No grooming, but no aggression either, which I thought was pretty good considering they hadn’t had a date in 4 days (!). 

Today Bertha groomed BJ again, and they were pretty relaxed around each other. 

At one point Bertha snuggled up to BJ, so I petted them both. When I stopped she would nip him, but not hard. I still stopped her though, since I didn’t like the position they were in (the head to tail made me nervous). They both seemed pretty relaxed, so not sure what the nipping was about. 

Then Bertha moved and came back, this time sitting down along side him. I petted them both and she snuggled into him for a few minutes. He chattered his teeth when I petted.

They were also able to move around past each other without incident when exploring the pen. 

I think we are ready for some long sessions… I might try for a marathon this weekend, but still not sure if I want to do a full-on marathon, or just longer sessions. Might just see how it goes. :p 

What do you guys think? 

The planned longer session at home is going well so far! 

I opted to make a disguised pen in the main room so they could have more space and I could monitor them more comfortably. I put plastic sheeting on the carpet, then puppy pee pads, then play mats, then more puppy pee pads. :p 

The floor is 4 play mats, with more play mats as the sides, and the x-pen wrapped around just to add some structure in case they push on the walls. Total space is 4 ft x 4 ft, with 2 ft sides. 

Started off with an hour at the shelter, which was uneventful. The moved then into the pen. Let them out of the carrier into the pen, and they both immediately started eating hay together! 

So far (about 30 min in to being home, but about 3 hours into the date, if you include the car rides and shelter) Bertha has laid down next to him, flopped several times, and they’ve both laid down. A little nipping from Bertha when BJ got too demanding with his grooming requests. She did groom him once so far. 

I told myself if things were going well I might just go for the full on marathon and keep them together overnight…. but we’ll see! Don’t want to push it, but things are going far better than I was expecting!

Some photos of the flops: 

You guys, they’ve been together for about 8 hours now, and the last 6 or so have been at home, and things are still going well!

They had their dinner together, and have both been doing normal bunny stuff (pooping, eating lots, grooming, flopping, sleeping). Bertha has groomed BJ quite a lot. BJ has been a bit too demanding a few times, and they’ve gotten a bit nippy, but nothing crazy.

This is definitely going better than I expected it to… so now I have to decide whether to go for the full marathon and just supervise them 24/7 until they are done… or in other words, how much sleep do I want tonight!

Hahaha well they are still together, and its almost 1 am…. still haven’t full decided if I will split them up when I head to bed. I’m actually most concerned about them eating the puppy pads!

I’m leaning towards just going for the marathon though!

Lucky for me my bed is literally right next to the pen, so all I have to do is peak over the edge to see them!

The joys of small apartments! I am definitely loving this pen in the main room vs. having them in my bathroom. Sleeping on the floor in the hallway was no fun!

I ended up separating them around 3 am, as they were getting a bit feisty and i was having to pet them every few minutes to keep them calm (of course this happened when the lights went off and I laid down)! I had a long week so I just needed some good sleep!

Today going to take them back to the shelter for as long as I can muster and then continue at home for as long as possible again.

Well, yesterday was the longest session yet. Took them to the shelter around noon, were there for 4.5 hours, then went home, and they stayed together till 1 am.

In that whole time, there were 2 incidents which I consider “tiffs” that required me intervening. Once at the shelter, and once a few min before I separated them for the night.

The time at the shelter was really really positive overall. There were moments when they really seemed to “click”. Bertha snuggled with BJ a few times, laid down near him most of the time, shared food side by side (like sides touching, both eating hay), BJ groomed Bertha a tiny bit, Bertha groomed BJ several times. Then at the end they were snuggling, but then Bertha started nipping, and a tiff happened (some boxing and lunging). Calmed them down and then we headed home.

At home they spend the majority of the time flopped and sleeping (prob because they were so tired from the shelter ordeal). Less cuddly though. Then in the evening it was a repeat of the night before, where Bertha would be laying down, and BJ would come up and demand grooms, and then she would get defensive and circling and chasing would start up. I’m assuming they aren’t as comfortable at home because it’s less neutral and less stressful?

One thing though, is that BJ is very unhappy at the shelter, so I think he isn’t behaving completely normally. I know that’s the idea with adding stress, but Bertha doesn’t seem to mind being there at all (she’s already learned how to beg for veggies from visitors walking around visiting the bunnies haha). So I’m thinking we do need to keep doing these home sessions.

This bond is really interesting for me, because we had so many positives, but still can’t shake the negatives (these little tiffs that happen after grooming, or when BJ is being too pushy). My past bonds seemed like they always went from just negatives to all neutral behaviors (sharing space without incidence) to adding in positives and then they were bonded.

Any one have any thoughts on these tiffs they are having? I think I want to keep doing longer day time sessions at home, and then not try the overnight until they are getting through the day without any tiffs.

I popped them back in the bonding area about an hour ago, so they will spend the day together. This is the first time going straight to the bonding area instead of going to the shelter first. They are doing OK, but both seem very unhappy with me. :p

Feeling a bit discouraged. Everytime I think “Things are going great!”, Bun Jovi instigates a scuffle. 

They’ve been together almost 12 hrs today, all pretty peaceful. Then a little while ago, BJ approached Bertha, asked for grooms. She groomed him a little, then laid down (perpendicular to him). Then he started nipping her because she stopped grooming. She spun around, and they started scuffling. They were pretty hard to calm down after, Bertha seemed pretty shaken up. No injuries (except my hand, that got caught in the cross-fire), and only a small amount of fur pulled. So maybe it wasn’t as bad as it looked? 

I put in a box with three entrances as the suggestion of the rescue coordinator, which helped “change the subject”, and they seem calm now. BJ is still very active though, and has buzzed Bertha a few times (she lunges and he’s retreated).  

I just don’t know what to make of these two….  

Maybe more petting, but I also am starting to feel like that is rewarding him being so demanding, when really they are going to have to come to terms with not always getting what they want.

Things didn’t really improve (another couple scuffles and some fur flying), so we decided to wait until they were calm for about 30 min then separate.

I’m not going to use the space in my apartment again. I think it’s too small, and not neutral enough. It worked fine when they were sleeping during the day, but when they started getting antsy and active, I think it just put them on edge.

I’m really stressed and sad about this, but not giving up just yet. Just need to regroup. I think I will ask some friends if I could set up a large area at their place and marathon there at some point, maybe next weekend. I might continue with just some car rides this week. *sigh*

Thanks guys, yeah I’m trying to be objective about it. I know if I was reading this as someone else’s thread, I would also say “Don’t give up!”. I guess that’s the beauty of the journal, as it can help you keep track of progress.

And yeah, Vienna I know your two were quite a tough bond, so I keep going back to your journal for inspiration! I can’t help feeling jealous reading all the journals of 2 and 3 week bonds. It really makes me feel like I don’t know what I’m talking about, since all of my bondings have taken a long time (shortest was 6 weeks, and now this one is poised to be the longest, even though it started off the best). I have to remind myself that the common denominator in all of this was also Bertha, and she is just a tough cookie to bond. She is never the aggressor, she just knows what she wants and won’t settle for less….

It’s tough because originally I was trying to let them “sort it out” a bit, but that wasn’t working. So the shelter advised me to do the petting technique, which did help a lot and got us to being able to spend long stretches of time peacefully. But now she suggested leting them “sort it out” a bit, but that doesn’t seem to be working out, at least in the space I have to work with at home. There are so many different strategies, it must be so confusing for someone who hasn’t bonded before. I realize she knows I’m getting frustrated, so is trying to offer alternatives… but now I just feel like I don’t know what to do.

Unfortunately the shelter doesn’t do boarding or offer bonding services, and there isn’t really anyone here that does. I think it’s much less common in the US than in the UK or elsewhere. I still might ask if there are any volunteers at the shelter that would be willing to work with them if I paid them.

Now that I’ve slept on it, I think my plan is to do some shelter sessions this week when I have time, and then ask some friends if I can use their kitchen or garage for a weekend.

I think if after a full 48 hour marathon in a completely neutral space they still aren’t past these nighttime scuffles, then I will just keep them separate. At their age, I really don’t want to do anything more extreme than that. The do seem to like each other through the fence (even after all that scuffling, they laid down near each other right after we put them back in their condos), so I think they would be fine as two singles. We love BunJovi so much already, and at his age there is no way we would return him to the shelter (even though he is technically just in foster care with us).

ok, so a friend said we can use their kitchen or garage!

Considering either this weekend, or in three weeks time. In two weeks we are going out of town for the weekend, so I’m leaning towards doing it in three weeks, so there is time to do cementing at home (if all goes to plan). Plus personally, I have a bunch of deadlines that week, so I think I will need that weekend to work, rather than be bunny chaperone.

Do you guys think it would be good to keep up with the shelter dates in the meantime? Or just give them a break to chill out? I suppose I could try a couple and see if they are still well-behaved there….

thanks guys

Vienna, when did you know to intervene? How long into marathoning did they reach a turning point? And, I remember you sent them off to a professional bonder. Did you just keep up with pre-bonding before that, or did you keep doing sessions on your own? I’ve heard of bunnies starting to resent each other when bonding gets drawn out, so I’m wondering if I should just do pre-bonding for the next couple weeks and give them a break from sessions. Then again, things were going well at the shelter. Hmm.

These two mess with my head, because they do so well during the day, then poorly at night (makes sense though). I’m thinking when I do marathon them, I will start on a Friday evening. Hopefully between the car ride there and the new place, that first night will be go more smoothly (rather than having the full day to get used to the space).

Well, they already do lie near each other when they are in their condos. And even after all the craziness of the marathon there wasn’t a ton of marking or anything when they went back in their condos.

I haven’t really made a decision…. but I think I will try them at the shelter today just to see. If they seem good (like they usually do at the shelter), I will continue shelter sessions when I can, but not expect any huge breakthroughs there. More of a maintenance level of dating? The again, maybe we did just leave the shelter too soon, so things weren’t cemented enough there. Who knows?

If they seem like they backslid and they need lots of petting to prevent fights, then I will probably give them a few weeks off, with just pre-bonding.

Ok, so we did a session at the shelter today, prob about and hour and a half, and thankfully it went fine! Despite the fur flying over the weekend, doesn’t seem like we backslid at all.

I stayed in the pen with them, but didn’t pet at all. Bertha groomed BJ some, denied his requests some other times. They were reasonably active. Both slept within a foot of each other for while. Some grunts and lunges at one point, but nothing serious.

So, what this tells me is that I do need to keep working with large, very neutral spaces, and that the pen at home was too small and not neutral enough.

I’m going to keep up with the shelter dates a few times a week until the big weekend at my friend’s house, and I will try to be less and less involved to see if they can start really sorting things out without escalation or interference.

Posted By Sirius&Luna on 3/29/2018 3:47 AM

It’s great that you’ve been able to pinpoint the problem – 

Well, hopefully! I think if that isn’t the problem, then we might be out of luck and they are just stubborn bunnies :p 

Just for the sake of trying, I did allow them to interact in the main room of the apartment for a few minutes. At first it was good, they just ran around exploring. Then nose to nose, I petted them, then Bertha lunged, so I decided they weren’t ready for that yet! I was a little discouraged at first, but then realized the fact that they ran past each other several times without attacking is probably a good sign.

Then I decided to take them to my office, to try that space again. The last time we tried was very early on, and I had the space quite small. This time I made it really large and interesting, with lots of boxes and new toys around. Hay and treats scattered. So far, things are good. Both just exploring, and interacting a bit in a relaxed way. Definitely a huge improvement over the last time they were here early on in the process.

This will hopefully be a test as to whether the marathon in a couple weeks will be successful. I figure this space is large and neutral, like the shelter, but not as stressful, so hopefully they will interact in a more normal way. Also planning to stay here into the evening a bit, which is when they tend to get crazy.

I keep going back and forth on what the best thing for them is. Am I bonding them for their benefit, or mine? I know being bonded would be great for them, but I also know that one of them is going to have to go through losing a mate AGAIN eventually (hopefully not soon though), so maybe they would be best as neighbors? It would be ideal if they could have free run without a divider, but even half the apartment is plenty of space for them to run and binky… my husband thinks I should stick to the plan and wait for the marathon to make the call.

Feeling just a tiny bit hopeful! As I said in my last post, I decided to try the buns in my office again, this time with a much larger area, and lots of hiding spots, new toys, and food (hay, cheerios, pellets scattered). I wanted to see how they did into the evening (since thats when things usually get interesting),

Things are going pretty well (we’re almost at 7 hours)! They haven’t groomed or snuggled yet, but they haven’t had any scuffles or tiffs either, and they have been quite active!

I like this space, because Bun Jovi is acting more normal. He’s approached Bertha multiple times like he did in my apartment, but this time nothing has escalated. A couple of lunges and nips here and there, but no fur pulled. I haven’t interacted with them at all (no petting or anything). At the start of the session, they were sleeping on opposite ends of the pen, but now BJ has moved a little closer to her.

They have both spent time eating, resting, and exploring. At one point BJ flopped about a foot from where Bertha was sleeping, and he even binkied at one point.

So, this is more encouraging that the marathon weekend at my friend’s house could work. I might bring them back here tomorrow since this seems pretty positive.

Thanks guys! We’re back in my office today. We did a total of about 9 hours yesterday! Def won’t go that long today (since I don’t want to be here till midnight again!), but figured some time was better than nothing.

I was pleased to see there were some dominance displays (requests for grooms, etc), but nothing turned into a scuffle or even anything close to it. A few short chases, but nothing that made me worried. At one point BJ binkied and landed right in front of Bertha and asked for a groom! She was like “werido.” and turned away.

Even though I know the marathon isn’t for 2 weeks, I’m hoping that this time will help set them up for success then.

Hi BunjaminML,

Thanks for sharing your experience, congrats on finally getting yours bonded!

I’ve actually already taken my two to a hoppy hour! My local rescue has them monthly. Bertha seemed to have a great time, Bun Jovi not so much, and I didn’t see a huge difference in their bonding status after that.

Both of them have been bonded twice before, so they are both pretty good at communicating with other bunnies, they are honestly just very stubborn! They both know what they want and won’t settle for less.

I am hoping that taking them to my friends house next weekend will be the equivalent of moving, as they seem to do really well in completely neutral spaces. I am planning on doing a 48 hr marathon with them in that space, and if they aren’t very close to bonded by then I am going to keep them separately. If they were young bunnies, I would keep pushing forward, but they are both around 8 years old, so I don’t really want to subject them to so many months of bonding stress.

It is nice to hear yours finally “clicked” though. It does seem like sometimes it just takes one really good session for everything to start falling into place with them.

Today’s the day!

This evening I will be taking them to my friends house to start the marathon final try. I opted to start 1 night earlier to give them a bit more time before I’ll have to leave them unsupervised on Monday for a couple hours during the day. (Of course I won’t do this if I don’t feel they are ready, I’ll separate them).

We haven’t done any sessions for about a week, as I was out of town for 4 days, and work life has been crazy, so hopefully things go OK. We had a bit of a hiccup with someone who we let stay at our place while we were gone, as Bertha somehow got onto Bun Jovi’s side and a bit of chasing happened. No fur pulled though, so I don’t think it would have set them back much.

They both actually seem in really good spirits (Bertha did lots of zoomies today, and BJ climbing all over the place again), so I think taking a break from sessions cheered them up. It makes me feel better knowing that whatever the outcome, they can both be happy without having full free-roam. Of course I REALLY hope we can get them bonded though!

I’m going to set them up in big area (2 x-pens linked up), with lots of hiding spots and tunnels, plus new toys. I am going to start out with just pee-pads, but will need to add a litter box eventually. I will probably add two very big ones (that are large enough to fit them both in). Going to set myself up with a bunch of snacks, laptop (hopefully can get some writing done), my new reclining camp chair, sleeping bag, etc.

I’m glad I’ll be at a friends house, so I can at least have some human contact!

I think I’ll have a good sense as to whether it will be successful after the first night, as I will be able to see how they do at night (when we usually had problems) in a completely new, larger space. If the first two nights go badly with no signs of improvement, I will call it quits.

Officially 1 hour into the marathon (if you count from the time I put them in the carrier).

The space we are in is great. It’s more of a little garden storage studio than a garage, so it has a window and my friend uses is as her art studio, so there’s even a desk. And it’s nice not being in the house, so I don’t feel like I’m in anyone’s way. I did feel like I might have gone crazy when I was loading up the car with everything… kinda felt like we were evacuating all over again!

The buns are doing well so far! I waited to give them dinner until we got here, and they are eating their salad together no problem. I didn’t have a chance to get a bunch of new boxes as hides, but I did put lots of new toys around and lots of food, so they seem pretty happy with the space. I have 2 x-pens linked together. The area isn’t quite big enough to have them at full size, so it’s prob more like 1.5 x-pens.

Hoping these stubborn old farts can finally get things sorted out, so send all your bonding vibes our way! I’m cautiously hopeful…..

Thank you! I brought so many snacks with me, but yes hopefully they will bring me more!

Thanks guys!

1st overnight went well! NO FIGHTING! No fur pulled at all! At one point they were chasing, but kind of halfheartedly. I stopped it after probably 5 or 6 seconds, all it took was banging on the x-pen. They were pretty active all night, and they definitely had some dominance interactions, but everything just felt very relaxed.

This morning woke up to them almost cuddling… I think they were a few inches apart.

Bun Jovi groomed Bertha this morning, and then Bertha groomed him back for a long time! Both are eating together no problem. Overall I’m very pleased!

I decided to add in a huge litter box to see how that would go, so far no one has claimed it. If it causes disputes I’ll take it out again. They have been so good I feel fine stepping out to brush my teeth, etc. My friend’s garden is lovely, so I’m enjoying sitting next to the garage with the door open and just listen. Sure beats sitting next to by bathroom!

I think if tonight goes well again then we will be in really good shape.

Thanks! Nice to see you here again!

I caught them snuggling a few minutes ago! *does small happy dance*

I’m so relieved that things are going smoothly so far! It really does show how important the space is!

Bun Jovi tends to get really active and likes to run around at night, and I think in the smaller space, Bertha would feel threatened by it and it would lead to fights. Last night he even binkied around a bit and she didn’t freak out. I’m also happy that taking a week off of sessions doesn’t seem to have set us back.

I’ll just leave this here

We are at about 25 hours now, and things have just been improving as time goes on. Grooming by both, more and more snuggling! 

Absolutely no fights since we started, not even a fur clump pulled. Just the odd nip here and there. 

I am SO RELIEVED! 

Good question!

We are going to stay here until Tuesday (so another 3 nights after tonight). If all goes well tonight and tomorrow night, I will probably feel fine sleeping in my bed on Sunday and Monday night. I always tell people they will know when things “click”… I think they have finally clicked! If I walked in and had no idea of their history, I would call them bonded based on their behavior at the moment. Of course we still have to get through the rest of tonight though!

The idea with waiting till Tuesday is that my husband gets home from a work trip that day, so after that he will be free to help supervise at home. I have to go into campus on Monday, so I didn’t want to move them to a new spot right before that, but I know they will be fine during the day Monday if we stay here.

I’m either going to move them to my kitchen, or straight to a completely renovated condo…. I haven’t decided yet….I feel like either one is a big jump, but that’s part of why we are staying here for an extra long amount of time!

In the past I haven’t had issues with Bertha when moving into less-neutral once they are solid in neutral, so hoping that’s the case again!

Last night went great! I kept thinking they were fighting, and would jolt awake to them just running around playing. BJ has been doing lots of binkies!

They shared the litter box no problem! I held my breath when they jumped in it at the same time, and they basically didn’t react at all! Both kept eating hay and doing their business. BJ asked for grooms, Bertha ignored him, then he left the box. The litter box was always a point of contention with Moose, so I’m very pleased!

Almost every-time I would wake up last night to peak at them, they were snuggling. We’re at about the 40 hour mark, and I think we are now in the “cementing” phase. I’ve been spending most of the day not in the room with them, and just checking on them periodically.

They will have a lot more time in this space to solidify things, so hopefully when we move home it won’t be a problem!

Thanks Sarah!

I think it really shows that the location you use is SUPER important, and if you’re stuck, to try a completely new space.

That’s what i was leaning towards as well!

Last night Bun Jovi decided to chase Bertha a few times last night, but it was not in an aggressive way, I’m pretty sure he was trying to mount. It was like a slow casual chase, ears forward. We’ll see if that behavior goes down over the next two nights.

Moved them into their newly renovated condo a couple hours ago, and so far so good!!!

I’ll prob keep them confined to the condo for the next day or so.

Overnight was uneventful! They’ve shared the litter box and meals no problem. Very peaceful and calm.

The only thing I’m still keeping an eye on is they haven’t really groomed or snuggled that I’ve seen since the move. Bertha has mainly been hanging out on the third level while BJ has been preferring the bottom floor. I think he just feels safer ? He’s explored the whole thing, and Bertha didn’t mind him sniffing and hopping all around her, so it’s not like she’s chasing him off. Last night she did lay down next to him on the bottom floor, but then he started running in circles around her so she left. :-/

I’m not sure if more space would be helpful? Or less? Or just more time?

They both really want to come out… it’s hard to resist!

About 2 minutes after my last post I decided to give them more space, ha!

They’ve always done better with more space, so figured I’d try it. Also thought they might be more likely to spend time near each other in the bigger area. Attached the down to give them about half the area they would normally get.

So far they are fine!

We’re over 24 hours in their final home (with lots of space but not quite free-roam), and they’ve been doing great!

No aggression or tense-ness whatsoever. Very calm and relaxed. I’ve been at work, but my husband just texted me pics of them snuggling.

I am SO HAPPY

This is exactly how it went with Bunston. It was like nothing nothing nothing and then one day “Oh we’re friends now!”

By George, I think we’ve done it! 

A bit over 48 hours at home (still not getting full free run, but mostly there). A brief chase yesterday evening of the “I want to mount you” variety, like was happening at the other location, but nothing since then. And actually since that chase, they’ve been way more snuggly! So I think that might have been Bun Jovi just confirming everything.  

They’ve both been flopping and snuggling and grooming and it makes me SO HAPPY. 

All it took was 4 plus months and 5 nights sleeping on a garage floor!!! 

Dare I say it… I think they’re bonded!