Forum

OUR FORUM IS UP BUT WE ARE STILL IN THE MIDDLE OF UPDATING AND FIXING THINGS.  SOME THINGS WILL LOOK WEIRD AND/OR NOT BE CORRECT. YOUR PATIENCE IS APPRECIATED.  We are not fully ready to answer questions in a timely manner as we are not officially open, but we will do our best. 

You may have received a 2-factor authentication (2FA) email from us on 4/21/2020. That was from us, but was premature as the login was not working at that time. 

BUNNY 911 – If your rabbit hasn’t eaten or pooped in 12-24 hours, call a vet immediately! Don’t have a vet? Check out VET RESOURCES

The subject of intentional breeding or meat rabbits is prohibited. The answers provided on this board are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. It is your responsibility to assess the information being given and seek professional advice/second opinion from your veterinarian and/or qualified behaviorist.

What are we about?  Please read about our Forum Culture and check out the Rules

BUNNY 911 – If your rabbit hasn’t eaten or pooped in 12-24 hours, call a vet immediately!  Don’t have a vet? Check out VET RESOURCES 

The subject of intentional breeding or meat rabbits is prohibited. The answers provided on this board are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet.  It is your responsibility to assess the information being given and seek professional advice/second opinion from your veterinarian and/or qualified behaviorist.

BINKYBUNNY FORUMS

Forum BEHAVIOR C&C cage problems

Viewing 23 reply threads
  • Author
    Messages

    • shawnanthony
      Participant
      10 posts Send Private Message

        My bunny is about 5 and a half months old now. So we decided to build him a C&C cage because he outgrew the one we bought at the pet store. He’s been in this cage for about a month. So shortly after we got him, we moved him to a bigger cage so he could have some room. We made it originally 3×3 and we just recently made it 3×6. He refuses to stop biting at the cage and shaking it until he breaks it so he can get out of the cage. Now we thought it would have been because he was in a cage that was a little to small for him, but even though it bigger now he is still biting and pulling, I’m worried that he’s going to injure himself doing it, because he will pull and push at his cage until he breaks it to go through it. We have tried zip tying the pieces together, putting up a sheet so he wouldn’t be tempted to try and get out. He is let out to roam for a minimum of 5 hours a day, he has no shortage of toys, water, food and hay. So I’m just wondering if anyone else has experienced this and could help me figure out some way to possibly get him to stop breaking out of his cage. Or will he eventually just grow out of the habit, he isn’t neutered yet, all of the vets say to wait until six months or older so we plan to neuter him next month, would that make any difference in his personality?
        Thank you,


      • Mikey
        Participant
        3186 posts Send Private Message

          Rabbits arnt really cage animals. Hes biting on the cage to get out, because he wants more room to play. 5 hours a day outside of the cage is a fair amount, though, so there might be another reason why hes trying to hard to get out.

          When he breaks out of his cage, what does he normally do? My Blue will try to break out, and if you let him out while hes trying to break out, he just goes into his large doggy bed and sleeps there. My Blue breaks out to get a better sleeping spot, basically.

          Not being neutered can be part of it. Hormones can drive a bunny crazy


        • sarahthegemini
          Participant
          5584 posts Send Private Message

            I don’t understand why people are surprised that their rabbit doesn’t like being in a cage…

            5 hours out may be the minimum but it still leaves 19 hours of being caged. Has he at least got an xpen attached to his cage?


          • SuperBunnyto
            Participant
            61 posts Send Private Message

              When you say 3×6, are we talking feet, or yards (or meters, depending where you are)? 

              I am a fan of using pens instead of a cages in addition to run/ exercise times. It gives them more space that can be extended, and it makes them calmer. It also makes it easier to add toys for them to play, and to tuck them in for the day.  Is it possible that he’s going a little stir crazy in his cage?

              A few questions that might help in figuring this out are:
              -does he have enough space?
              -does he have enough toys to play with?
              -are his toys mentally engaging?

              -does he have new toys/ toy rotation schedule?

              The House Rabbit Society has an article on rabbit habitats and spaces: http://rabbit.org/faq-housing/ . This could be of help in setting up a habitat that he is happy to go back to. 

              I hope this helps!


            • shawnanthony
              Participant
              10 posts Send Private Message

                A c&c cage is what we have, it’s basically just metal grids for a bookshelf from Walmart. If you look them up you’ll see what I mean. I like the snitty remarks about “I’m so surprised” but his cage is about 8 feet by 4 or 5 feet, it takes up most of the room in my spare room. The only reason he doesn’t have free range of the house is because we’re renting and have carpets which he likes to pull. Anyway, he regularly has his toys changed out, I mean he usually tears them apart within weeks end. And has usually 4-5 hanging toys a couple stuffies and then 6ish toys just on the ground. He also has two hideaways, one is his carrier but he likes it more than his normal hut so we leave it there for him. I’m a full time college student so for the moment 5 hours is the most I can give him in roaming time, especially with the carpets, because I just can’t let him do his thing, I have to kinda watch him. I’m taking him to get neutered soon, which I’m hoping is going to help chill him out.


              • Vienna Blue in France
                Participant
                5317 posts Send Private Message

                  Hi Sean and welcome
                  I too have C&C squares for my buns and so I know that 3 x 6 is a nice size condo.
                  I also have a puppy pen attached to it and yet they still have a go at the xpen bars from time to time. I wonder if it’s a way of gnawing their teeth, as even complete free range buns with no cages have a go at walls and suchlike…

                  My boy bun was a nightmare with his cage bars and yes he did calm down after being neuteured and bonded. Its not an overnight fix but in 4 months you WILL see a difference.

                  We would love to see photos of your buns


                • SuperBunnyto
                  Participant
                  61 posts Send Private Message

                    Oh, I see, I think I know the type of shelf you’re talking about, once linked they basically form a pen. I think there are a lot of people who use it. I personally use tall dog pens, but that’s just a matter of preference. 

                    It sounds like he has enough space, and you are giving him enough run time and changing his toys. So the only thing left is the neutering, which might very well be the reason why he’s biting his cage. He may calm down once he is neutered. 

                    If you’re worried about him getting sick from chewing the cage, I would suggest putting a bit of corrugated cardboard around some of the links or interlace some twigs and other bunny friendly chewables around some areas so that he has that to chew on instead. My bunnies seem to like corrugated cardboard, apple twigs and willow baskets. There’s also a bird toy that is like a rolled up mat, in which you can stuff hay and other healthy treats (I’ve added a picture below). That may take his mind off of the cage. I just would remove the paper that comes with it from inside and the leather strips and that hanging plastic/ wood thing to be on the safe side. I give this to my bunnies, but use just the mat and the cardboard rings that keep it together and I stuff it with hay and willow leaves.

                    One more thing I could suggest is adding a little chamomile to his diet. Chamomile flowers/ teas are known for their calming properties, and some bunnies love it. I put a few chamomile flowers in my bunnies’ breakfast and some times brew them tea. That way, I’m not force feeding them anything, but they have a choice of whether they want to eat/ drink it, or not. If you are going to give him chamomile flowers, make sure it’s not mixed with anything else, and it’s just the flowers. If you prefer to make him tea, again make sure that the it’s just chamomile and not mixed with anything else. If you get the flowers, though, you can easily make tea with that. Also, I prefer getting organic whenever possible. Lastly, make sure the tea has cooled down to at least room temperature (although I put the tea in the fridge for a cooler drink for my buns).

                    The last thing I should mention is that many bunnies do better with a partner. That’s not always the case, of course. And since he is not yet neutered, he shouldn’t get a partner yet, but it’s something to consider. I just want to make sure I also add that bunny bonding (which is what you call when two bunnies are brought together; bunnies cannot just be thrown together, as bunnies are territorial and can hurt each other badly) is very hard work, and doesn’t always work . So the danger there is that you may end up with two separate bunnies that can’t be together. There are some shelters that do “bunny speed dating” in which your bunny is introduced to different bunnies and you can choose which pairing seems to work best. Again, not infallible, but it betters your chances. However, given that you’re going to school right now and are busy, it’s probably an idea to consider for later on. 

                    I hope these ideas help you! Obviously you care very much about your bunny and are trying to do what’s best for him. 

                    Good luck to you! 


                  • sarahthegemini
                    Participant
                    5584 posts Send Private Message

                      It’s not a snitty remark. Bunnies do not like being caged. It’s that simple. The amount of people that express shock at this is astonishing. The size of his cage does sound good, especially compared to standard pet shop rabbit cages which are drastically inadequate but again, he wants freedom.

                      If you can only give him 5 hours out, fine but he’s clearly not happy about it. You need to think about his mental wellbeing.


                    • Azerane
                      Moderator
                      4691 posts Send Private Message

                        Hi there and welcome

                        The cage you have sounds like a great size, I have a C&C condo too and love it. It sounds like he’s got a good amount of cage space and 5 hours is a decent amount of run time. From my experience with the buns that I’ve owned, I’ve always found that the more intelligent rabbits tend to be escapists and cage rattlers, whereas the “simpler” buns are content to lounge around and be active in the space they have. While it could be his youthful exuberance, you may also have a bunny that is a little more intelligent than most so he is easily bored in his cage. He knows that he likes being out, so he wants out all the time, logical argument. Unfortunately with the nature of bunnies, unless his free roam area is completely safe for him or perfectly rabbit-proofed I know that’s not always possible. So you need to look at alternatives for him, mostly activities and toys to distract him. Things that are going to take up time and use his mental abilities while also challenging him physically. Foraging toys are a great start for that, treats or his daily pellets inside a treat ball that he has to roll around to get pellets out of, toilet paper tubes stuffed with hay and treats, dig boxes and paper bags with hay and dried herbs in them as foraging toys. A white pages phone book for chewing and shredding, seagrass matts for chewing and shredding work well by cage doors. Sometimes it’s a matter of finding the right kind of toy for the individual bun, something that’s going to hold his attention. Rotate toys frequently to keep it interesting.

                        All that being said, neutering may help too. But you can never be certain whether it will fix behavioural habits like this.


                      • iDon'tCare
                        Participant
                        7 posts Send Private Message

                          Don’t be shocked that your rabbit hates his cage. Let him out for longer, more than 5 hours if you can. If you’re home and it’s safe to let him out with supervision then there is absolutely no reason for you not to let him out.


                        • Mikey
                          Participant
                          3186 posts Send Private Message

                            5 hours a day/35 hours a week is fine, and the cage sounds like its over 18sqft. 30 hours a week outside of the cage, and a cage thats 18sqft is the minimum for a rabbit; obviously, these needs are being met. OP’s doing fine with their rabbit care so theres no need to tell them they arnt. Their rabbit has enough space and time for proper exercise. The buns well being is far from being threatened with this set up.

                            I also use c&c cages for all three of my bunnies, and love how large they are. Totally worth the price! Mine also fits up a huge chunk of my living room and has enough space for the bunnies to bunny 500, stand, flop, house litter boxes and bowls, and they have tons of toys to play with in there too. Each bun can do this without running into another bun because theres so much space. Its a great home for my bunnies when I cannot let them free roam.

                            A much as youre doing everything right, its just that rabbits arnt really cage animals. They always want more space, more freedom, and more things to keep busy. If its possible to buy one of the double decker cages from the website, that might help out too. You can also buy the same size cage, order the ramp piece, order a few of their safety bars (helps hold weight), and then modify it yourself into a double decker (thats what I ended up doing). This will give him more room and a different scenery if he goes up the ramp to chill at the top. Itll also force him a little more exercise since he might use the ramp often if you keep toys on top, and food and litter on the bottom (or visa versa). I really recommend doing this, as its helped my bunnies out a lot (even though they also get free roam time).

                            Another idea to help out is swapping out his toys. If you notice he is bored of one toy, take it out of his cage and put in a different toy. You can constantly swap through the toys as he gets bored of one as it might feel like youre constantly showering him with “new” toys. Of course, get new toys now and then too. My rabbits really like willow stick balls. They chase after them, chew on them, and like to throw them around. They also like dangling toys like SuperBunny posted. I have a few I attached to the top of my buns’ cages and they will boop them, chew on them, and occasionally tug on them (another reason why the reinforcement bar is needed with c&c cages, especially with double decker c&c cages).


                          • sarahthegemini
                            Participant
                            5584 posts Send Private Message

                              Posted By Mikey on 10/22/2017 1:14 PM

                              5 hours a day/35 hours a week is fine, and the cage sounds like its over 18sqft. 30 hours a week outside of the cage, and a cage thats 18sqft is the minimum for a rabbit; obviously, these needs are being met. OP’s doing fine with their rabbit care so theres no need to tell them they arnt. Their rabbit has enough space and time for proper exercise. The buns well being is far from being threatened with this set up. 

                              I respectfully disagree. Five hours is the bare minimum, so yes technically OP is providing ‘enough’ but clearly the rabbit in question isn’t happy with the arrangement. You even say yourself that rabbits aren’t really cage animals because they want freedom. If the rabbit wants more time out and is chewing bars out of frustration, that needs to be sorted as opposed to covered up. Meaning, the cause of the frustration (not enough freedom) needs to be dealt with instead of blocking access to the bars to stop the chewing.


                            • BinkyBunny
                              Moderator
                              8776 posts Send Private Message

                                Welcome to BinkyBunny! This is actually a common question. I do agree with the others that have said to add more toys/activities, or what I call boredom busters. Neutering may help, but young bunnies are especially active regardless Even my senior bunny is active. (not like a baby but she is curious and likes to be busy with things.)

                                Since full free range is not something everyone can do, and is not safe for every bunny, enclosures will be necessary and so finding boredom busters and things that distract can help. Check out the DIY Toy Section on this site https://binkybunny.com/BUNNYINFO/tabid/53/CategoryID/27/PID/940/Default.aspx

                                It might be a good idea to get or make some toys to hang on the inside where you bunny likes to chew on the bars. In the last 10 years, my bunnies have had a room (12 x 11) to themselves, with plenty of free range time to the rest of they house when I am home, and if I have the gate up at the door, it never failed, they would chew on it.(even though they had a ton of free range time).  

                                Aria hates when I close the gate at the door, so she chews on it, but when I open it, she then will just sit there or go back and lounge or play in her room. She won’t come out unless I entice her out.    So it’s not even that she wants to necessarily wants to come out and play, (because I leave the door open most of the time).     

                                 I think she just doesn’t like the feeling of being locked in.   So I believe that in some cases it’s part of bunnies prey instincts –   they are more comfortable not feeling “trapped”, so their goal is to dig and chew an “exit” just in case they need it.   So I give them that feeling of chewing out a an exit — by covering the gate with chew projects — sea grass mats weaved in, I also weaved in thinner willow and apple sticks, hanging chew toys, toilet paper rolls with hay inside. She’s got cardboard houses in her space too that keeps her busy as she likes to demolish those.

                                When Aria does come out the rest of the house, I have a special blanket just for that she will wear herself out pushing and pulling around. Then she goes back to her space and literally flops and lounges from exhaustion — (She’s nutty about the blanket).

                                So it’s finding what your bunny likes to do and work with that. You are doing a good job in expanding space and it’s great you are reaching out to get suggestions for what more can be done. I understand the concern about teeth health chewing on the bars. You obviously care very much. Hope some of the suggestions here help. Keep us updated.


                              • DanaNM
                                Moderator
                                9064 posts Send Private Message

                                  My Bertha will rattle her cube condo door when it’s time to come out in the morning and she thinks we are sleeping in too late. Have you noticed a pattern to his rattling? Does he only do it when you’re there, or is it an all the time kind of activity? Does he have a solid daily routine?

                                  I had a guinea pig once that would chew her cage bars, to the point where she actually broke her front teeth once! I had to hand feed her grated veggies that she slurped up like spaghetti until they grew back, so I understand the concern!

                                  I’m really big positive reinforcement training and the ways people unintentionally reinforce behaviors, so I’m wondering if he has actually been training YOU to give him what he wants when he rattles the cage. Do you wait for him to calm down before letting him out? Do you reward him when he is NOT rattling the cage? Even waiting for 3 or 10 seconds after he stops rattling the cage to let him out could help break the habit.

                                  It does sound like his cage and exercise amount are fine, but if the hours he is let out to play don’t line up with the times of day bunnies like to be active, he still might not get a chance to burn off his energy. Bunnies are active morning and evening, so try to let him out for his run-around time when he will actually use it.

                                  I also think bunnies can really get into habits of things, and can be almost obsessive about “projects”. In terms of getting them to stop with unhealthy habits, you really need to direct them to something positive and then reward them heavily for doing it. My Bertha sounds similar in terms of her likes and dislikes, and she really likes destroying cardboard cat scratchers. You might try diverting some of that cage-rattling energy to a cat scratcher?

                                  Think of it like a dog barking. Dogs bark for lots of reasons, and for some, the act of barking itself is enjoyable. Even though you want to address any actual reasons why the dog is barking, it’s not good to reward barking by going for a walk every time the dog barks. Of course you need to walk the dog, but it’s best to wait until the barking stops, THEN go on the walk. For your bun, even if all his needs are met, he might just think it’s fun to rattle the cage, so you need to find something that is more fun for him, but that satisfies the same urge.

                                  . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                                • jerseygirl
                                  Moderator
                                  22356 posts Send Private Message

                                    Posted By shawnanthony on 10/18/2017 10:01 PM

                                    My bunny is about 5 and a half months old now. So we decided to build him a C&C cage because he outgrew the one we bought at the pet store. He’s been in this cage for about a month. So shortly after we got him, we moved him to a bigger cage so he could have some room. We made it originally 3×3 and we just recently made it 3×6. He refuses to stop biting at the cage and shaking it until he breaks it so he can get out of the cage. Now we thought it would have been because he was in a cage that was a little to small for him, but even though it bigger now he is still biting and pulling, I’m worried that he’s going to injure himself doing it, because he will pull and push at his cage until he breaks it to go through it. We have tried zip tying the pieces together, putting up a sheet so he wouldn’t be tempted to try and get out. He is let out to roam for a minimum of 5 hours a day, he has no shortage of toys, water, food and hay. So I’m just wondering if anyone else has experienced this and could help me figure out some way to possibly get him to stop breaking out of his cage. Or will he eventually just grow out of the habit, he isn’t neutered yet, all of the vets say to wait until six months or older so we plan to neuter him next month, would that make any difference in his personality?
                                    Thank you,

                                    Is it these you’ve used to build his cage? Commonly called NIC cubes. If it these, did you use the connecters only first? Then added some zip ties after? 

                                    Is it the door that he’s breaking through or any area of the cage he pushes at?   For the door, what do you normally use to keep it closed when he’s in there? 


                                  • shawnanthony
                                    Participant
                                    10 posts Send Private Message

                                      It’s not that he chews on the bars,(I guess I worded that incorrectly) the little $*&! has learned that if he grabs onto the middle of two grates and pushes forward that it will bust open if he does it correctly. He is also now starting to spray so thats one of the reasons I care. When I am home and awake he is out. But when I’m asleep is usually when he makes his great escape. So I just don’t like the thought of him being alone and out all night since he isn’t fully litter trained yet, and likes to pull the carpets. I get that he needs more time out of his cage, but at the moment I cannot give that to him. And if that makes me a bad owner then so be it, but there are much worse situations he could be in. And hey in a month or two after hes neutered, maybe he will be free to roam. But as of right now I’m going to keep him in his c&c. Now thanks for the advice on the toys everyone. I usually just give him a pile of toys and keep them there for a couple weeks. But I’ll switch and give him only a couple and change them every few days. But does anyone have any ideas on how to support the outer cage so he can’t push it open at night?


                                    • Mikey
                                      Participant
                                      3186 posts Send Private Message

                                        Consider using metal binder clips. Youll use four per grid: two at the tops, two at the bottoms. For extra protection, use six: two at the bottoms, two at the tops, and two in the middle.

                                        Picture: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/515tsaUMNyL.jpg


                                      • jerseygirl
                                        Moderator
                                        22356 posts Send Private Message

                                          You’re not a bad owner.  Rabbits this age do need to be confined more anyway. Especially when litter habits go awol. It can help re-establish their habits, as will neutering. I bet you can’t wait for that day to arrive!

                                          So you have used zip-ties to fix all the grates together? Do they break when he pushes here?
                                          Is it possible to upload a photo of the area he is breaking out from?


                                        • shawnanthony
                                          Participant
                                          10 posts Send Private Message

                                            Yes it’s those storage cubes. We haven’t used zip ties but that’s a smart idea. I’ll pick some up and try that. We we’re using elastics but he just learned to chew
                                            through them. It’s like we figure out something and by the next day he’s learned how to get around it. It’s the two outer sides of his cage. We have it up against two walls and the the other two sides have nothing next to them. So he just pushes until he finds a weak link somewhere. I’m counting down the days until he’s six months old.


                                          • jerseygirl
                                            Moderator
                                            22356 posts Send Private Message

                                              Be prepare to buy a LOT of zip-ties. I think Azerane and Vienna Blue said they used over 500 for their condos, which is a similar size to yours. I’ll look around and see if I can find some threads that showed step-by-step process in building the condo. It sounds as if yours just needs more reinforcement against a determined bunny.


                                            • jerseygirl
                                              Moderator
                                              22356 posts Send Private Message

                                                I managed to find Vienna’s thread when she made a C&C condo. 

                                                As you can see, there is a 2 zip-ties crossing each other where each grid meets in the corners, and 2 additional ones in the middle on each grid. 

                                                Image result for site:binkybunny.com condo cross


                                              • shawnanthony
                                                Participant
                                                10 posts Send Private Message

                                                  Thank you very much! Thats exactly what I need!


                                                • jerseygirl
                                                  Moderator
                                                  22356 posts Send Private Message

                                                    You’re welcome. She posted lots of up-close photos.
                                                    There are also some guides here, at bottom of the page: https://binkybunny.com/BUNNYINFO/GreatHabitats/tabid/229/Default.aspx


                                                  • Vienna Blue in France
                                                    Participant
                                                    5317 posts Send Private Message

                                                      Thought I recognised the floor tiles…..

                                                      Come back with any questions ShawnA, we’re glad to be of help.

                                                  Viewing 23 reply threads
                                                  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

                                                  Forum BEHAVIOR C&C cage problems