Severus=Sev=she=her=agressor

Houdini=he=him=non-agressor

Let me clear it up. Yes, I actually had just moved so outside the cage was neutral. Severus got into Houdini’s (non-agressive one), and I was very close watching to see if Sev was going to go into a cage of Houdini’s territory to fight. Just to see the extent of agression she has. She then left the cage so I figured okay, maybe lets try to bond in the neutral space (outside their cage was pretty neutral since they hadn’t have had time out of their cage yet due to me moving and not having time to bunny-proof. Left both cages open for first five minutes (will explain really why I did, didn’t let both in the same cage after I saw the extent of Sev’s agression/first minute, she only wanted to check out Houdini’s space so that was a thumbs up). So the fight happened in the neutral space. But before the fight they were exploring and sniffing eachother for at least 30 minutes. 

After the fight and now I have separated them and waited to bond. I never locked them in together in either of their pens. Houdini did explore Sev’s cage but I was close to them to make sure she wasn’t going to go in there (since it’s her territory). But that happened in the beginning of my “surprise” bonding time.

I was just surprised that they were doing so well. I never planned on bonding them in my room. Since the neutral space thing, I’ve done lots of research. 

The only time Sev won’t fight after a given time (sometimes it’s instantly, sometimes she would wander around first) is if they are in a carrier in a moving car or when they are in the stroller. It has improved with the time it takes her to fight. But 30 minutes? Never! 5 minutes would be a miracle especially when they ran into eachother while exploring the new environment. That was where the shock came in. I’m starting to think that one of them did something to piss off the other. I wasn’t really watching them super closely, I was actually messaging someone about it at the time it happened. Maybe one tried to mount the other, but I was able to react instantly (the message could wait) so I could intervene.

Answer: 

Yes I let the agressor into the non-agressor’s territory to see if she was so agressive that she ran into his pen to start a fight. I’m trying to figure out her agression. However, she explored his pen and then left. I called an unexpected bonding situation. Left both of their pens open so they can explore each others. After, I did not let both (nor did they try) go into the agressors cage due to the territory. I just wanted to give the non-agressor a chance to check out the agressors cage. I was trying to explore why they haven’t been able to bond yet. After a given 5 minutes, i did close both cages cause the non-agressor got a chance to explore the agressors cage alone and the agressor got to do the same with the non-agressor. ( I really wanted to see if the non-agressor liked the bunny adobe cause that will be his future home lol but while he did that I let the other bun just check his out if she wanted and she did)

The fight was after those pens were closed. In a neutral territory, not even close to the pens. I was stationed by both pens with my computer for observation and to give pets. 

I feel the wording made it more confusing as I reread it but I kinda said the same thing in multiple ways and sorry about my spelling.

What sucks is I have been bonding them for almost a year. It was a spur of the moment. They seemed to be getting along. I figured stress, yes!! Stress bonding doesn’t work for Severus, unless the car or stroller like I mentioned so I thought maybe she’s stressed. Take advantage!! I know them well enough that if I thought that it was to stressful of a moment then I wouldn’t of went into the spur of the moment bonding session. Severus didn’t get very stressed about the move, Houdini was stressed for maybe 2 days (he has moved before, he is a rescue). Overall, they seemed happier lol. They love the flooring I put that gives them more traction to the floor (its not everywhere in their pens, just in spaces they slip usually).

It seemed like a green light to start a session. After Sev did what she did and there was no aggression so I contact the rescue I am fostering Houdini from’s president. She said give it a go. They have bonded a plethora of rabbits. They literally have at least 10, I’m thinking more towards 20 rabbits at their own home not counting the rabbits at foster’s homes. They even take in rabbits from foster to adopt houses to help bond them so the person can decide if they should adopt or find another foster bun. I really don’t want to give them my rabbits. They have bonded rabbits so quick too. So clearly she has seen it before so that is why she gave me the go and thats why I trusted her and we both knew that either rabbit could get aggressive because that’s the normal from Sev but we thought maybe it could be a break through since the rescue have seen it before.

Their pens are together (with an extra metal grid), I have swapped pens/litter boxes, and dont all the stress bonding ways and non-stress bonding. I have recently taken things slower (for a few months) since things weren’t working. That is why I got so excited to see the response.  

I can’t agree that I rushed them. I also don’t think I made a bad choice by doing the out of the blue bonding session, if you see a toddler trying to use the restroom (potty training) so you stop them because it may be not be a good time or they may not seem ready? That’s the way I see it although I could of used a better analogy. I’m not surprised that a fight broke out either, I would of been able to respond quicker if we were doing a planned bonding session b/c there would be less space for them. It was weird because there was no warning signs that made me believe they were going to fight. Literally zero honks from either then bam fight and honking. The only thing I wish is that they had less space to move around so I could be more ready. But like I said I fostered the moment and it turned out as a good session minus the fight. Usually the sessions are many honks to the point where I have to stop or to the point I know they are able to fight so I have to stop. 

I really want to know if there is reason my female was acting that way at first? She is an aggressor literally with short phases of not doing so or she can get distracted. I just don’t understand how she went so long without a single honk and they passed each other and smelt eachother multiple timessss.

I know it was my big mistake to not have 100% eyes on them. I was trying to communicate with the rescue’s president about the situation. The fight wasn’t horrible either, i stopped it maybe in 3 seconds. Very little hair loss (and Houdini is a jersey wooly).

The whole pen/cage scenario lastly 30 second to 1 minute. Sev entered the cage between my legs and since she was in there I wanted to see why. Standing very close to houdini hovering over him with my hands 4 inches away from him. I let her because i was curious is she just went into his pen to attack him. If that happened, i would bring them to the rescue for help because that would just make Sev really mean. She looked around and then sniffed Houdini and left (during that sniff I was super nervous). And she waltz out and I thought nose to nose and no honk?? So then I let houdini check out Sev’s pen (without sev. i made sure she couldnt get in). Then I closed both pens and they were running around a no- territory space ( i just moved ) everything was jolly for maybe 30 minutes then as i was typing to the rescue asking for advice, the fight started. 

The whole bun in another bun cage was the beginning. I would never let one bun in another buns cage without all eyes on them (i really wanted to see why Sev went in there in the first place). 

I’m really trying to find out why Sev was so okay with Houdini for the 30 minutes. That is really what I’m confused about. 

I want to make sure I know all the behaviors of them so I can do better with bonding (one reason I wanted to see why Sev went into Houdini’s cage) to see if it was because of Houdini or if she wanted to explore. 

I don’t want to give up on them as a bonding fail. Also after the fight they acted like nothing happened. I’ve had a scenario where Sev wouldnt stop honking and was about to start a fight the whole time (i try to leave bonding sessions on a positive note) and I ended up ending it and Sev was honking at Houdini still while in their pens. So this fight defiantly wasn’t so dramatic on them. They still will go up the where they pens meet and lay down near eachother. Didn’t even affect their eating because I gave “fresh” hay to them after and they ran up to eat it. Which they don’t do when stressed .

Sorry I’m so bad at explaining it. It was so weird. It also hard to explain both of the buns behaviors and personalities. 

She (Severus) has always been aggressive towards him since we got him (Houdini). I don’t want to give up because I love Houdini now, hes my son. I know its hard to follow because I’m not so organized so I want to be. Also let me mention they have not been in a lot of fights. I think it has been a total of 2-3 in a year. I stop the aggressive lunges. Houdini was a coward at first, but now he has gained confidence. It sucks cause Houdini loves Severus, Severus feels the opposite about Houdini. I can tell he loves b/c he lights up when she is near his pen the same way Severus lights up when I come home. I think she just isn’t okay with the idea of having a mate. I’m hoping once she realizes he isn’t leaving that she will come to terms. I have made mistakes of course but nothing has happened that I think that would scar them (or doesn’t seem to have scared them). Sev has days where she seems more okay with him being next to her pen (his pen is) but then other days she is like NOPE. I need to get back to stroller rides. Houdini would curl up next to Sev (which I knew made him happy) and she would look around (I only leave the top open if Im in motion, she will jump out when the stroller is stopped but goes no where near the approach to jump when moving). Sev would sometimes cuddle back! I’m in an apartment now so I’m unsure of any good paths to make with them!

I would be okay with two separate buns and if needs to be then so be it. I also would love to separate them. The problem is that I just moved into an apartment so I now have one room (I used to have two at the house). I can’t put them outside my room because I dont trust my mom’s cats and tbh there isn’t much space for them either. My moms room has no space either. I have space for them here because my mom gave me the master. However, extra space would be nice, I still have so much furniture at my dads house. Anyways, one reason I really want to bond them is because when I do live on my own, I’m not sure how much space I will be able to get and if I need space for two x-pens it may be difficult. (I signed up for this knowing they live long, but it would just be a positive). 

If they can’t become friends then fine! I can live with that even with the negatives. Do you think if I did choose to have them as separate buns that they could still have their cages next to each other?

I also should add that I haven’t been doing well on doing bonding sessions throughout the almost year. I had many life changes that occurred (I didn’t neglect them, just didn’t have much time to do bonding sessions since that adds on time). Do you think a better routine could help? If it is even possible that it affected their bonding?

Also if I choose to keep them separate could I still bring them on stroller rides together? They really seem to enjoy it, I’m not sure if it is much a stresser since Sev seems so happy to be outside and look around as well as Houdini, Houdini also loves the cuddles. They won’t even jump out of the stroller when inside. Lol Sev has tried to jump out when we were outside but I don’t think its cause she didnt like it, she is a head up feel the breeze kind of girl but when she’s nervous she will lay down (for example the bumpy path at my old house). I could be wrong but I believe they truly like it and I like doing it for the exercise thing (i wouldnt go on walks by myself or have motivation to do so).

Just want to add that bonding for done the proper way for a certain amount of months. The problem was the move that affected it. I will say that when they are in there xpens, they show no aggression. I have not tried bonding them since the move, b/c right now my schedule is whack and I know that I may not be able to follow through. I just want to follow up that in no way was I rushing them. What happened was curiosity was a fluke (yes this was maybe a rusher but do not assume that is how i had been trying to bond them before). And they actually didnt even resent or show more anger towards each other after. The fight wasnt that bad, I tend to exaggerate, b/c any fight is bad to me. I do not mind if they never bond, i do not care. I think at the time I may of not been thinking with the whole parent seperaton, me thinking about moving out from my new place after i graduate from college so just the adulting things and i also think my mind set at the time was to much in the same mindset at work, lol. When you work at a school and see something impressive, you build up on it. But rabbits aren’t kids (but they still are my kids). They actually never have shown any stress from any bonding after 5 minutes from returning. And they never try to bring the fight back into the cage ( has happened months ago ). I do want them bonded mainly for space, i would love to have them free roam. I think it would be unfair to let one free roam and not the other. I think I wil try bonding again, just when I have the schedule that i once had where I can be consistent. I gave up bonding once the schedule got messed up. I still have very detailed notes from the sessions that describe any behavior and what time it happened. I agree that if the aggression happened when they were in their cages that best for them would be to move them apart or in different rooms. it’s not the case. They binky and run around. I give them individual time outside their cage now. (my room is not good for bonding anymore, i know this). and to the person commenting on my wording, please never judge from the way i put things. especially when I was in distress. I’m terrible with typing my actual thoughts and my attempt to do so should not be the “judgement” of what I am always doing. Sudden stress and a life change can affect actions, doesnt mean I havent done “proper bonding”. It was a one time bad judgement by myself, but this judgement didnt affect them at all. They never fought before this, by fighting I mean aggression from one bun and me stopping it. Again, Im bad at typing what I mean sometimes. Once i saw that the bonding schedule got messed up, i quit. This fluke excluded.
I appreciate the advise I really was not in the right mind, I spent many many hours maybe equivalent to days researching bonding but for some reason I let this happen. But now I know when huge life events happen to think twice when it comes to any of my decisions.
Hope that made sense!! I’m now faced with another bun problem that is really stressing me out and my new fish has ich! Ugg, I guess my time with no problems is over, but I enjoyed the break!! Lol