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BINKYBUNNY FORUMS

This topic has 11sd replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 1 month ago by DanaNM.

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- 10/02/2017 at 9:08 PM
  Haley
  Participant
  7 posts
  Hi all,
  
  I have been a bunny owner for a few months now, and have only seen a few bunny bonding sessions. I have researched the bonding process extensively, and I do believe that I have a very difficult pair to bond on my hands…
  
  I’ll break down what I’ve attempted so far (I’ve only done 3 sessions thus far):
  
  Background: I would have just tried bunny speed dating for my lop eared, Ben, but a rescue bunny came into my life unexpectedly, and he will be here to stay. Ben is a relatively free-roam bunny, as he is loose in my room. This makes it very difficult to do the whole set-the-bunnies-up-next-to-one-another thing first. Therefore, I had to plunge into the first meeting…
  
  Day 1: Set up a towel in the middle of the bathtub. Placed Ben in, and he was content to explore this odd new place. Placed Leo in, and he froze. Ben turns around and sees Leo, and immediately approaches him. Nipping ensues right away, and things escalate. I safely grab Leo using a towel. I give them a brief break before placing them in again, but they are showing alert body language. I decide to end this first session early.
  
  Day 2: I place both Ben and Leo on the washing machine while it’s running. The extremely slippery surface causes them to stick together. Leo occasionally puts his front paws on Ben, either to get a grip or…? They don’t do much interacting due to fear, but they do squish together without incident. I then bring them to the bathtub, where I have a smaller towel placed down. They both go to the towel with no issues for a minute. Then Leo starts to thump. Trying to decompress the situation, I rub both of their heads. A bit of thumping, growling, attempting nips, and vigorous pawing at Ben come from Leo during the session. Ben mostly stays frozen, sometimes trying to nip back. In moments where Leo gets too amped up, I gently move/nudge him, or pet their heads. I tried ended on a relatively good note – or at least during a moment there wasn’t aggressive body language.
  
  Day 3: I use the washing machine again, and they are fine being next to one another again. No aggressive body language happens here. I then place them back in the tub, and things are again okay for a moment. Leo then begins to thump and growl at Ben. Ben stays hunkered down and mostly still when Leo does this. I distract Leo either with the towel or with head rubs when he begins to thump and growl. As time passes, Leo eventually starts to groom himself, and slides into a belly lay. He even FLOPPED at one point! After Leo presented this behavior, he started to press his face into Ben’s, close to the ground, in what I imagine was his way of asking to be groomed. Ben does not respond. Leo moves back again, and Ben finally feels like he can move, and attempts to groom himself. Leo does NOT like Ben moving, and gets aggressive again, thumping, growling, and charging. Ben attempts to defend himself with nips. Leo gets himself wedged between Ben and the edge of the tub, half on the towel and half off. For some reason, he pauses like this, smushed up next to Ben, and hunkers down. This is how this bonding session ended.
  
  I suppose what I want to know is – what is Leo doing?! He shows both very aggressive and very comfortable body language with Ben. It seems to me like they both aggressively want the other to be the first to groom, and like they’re both really awkward at approaching friendship. Neither of them have lived with another rabbit before, Ben is 7 and Leo is 4. Thoughts on this pair? Advice on bonding difficult pairs? I’m in this bonding pair for the long haul – I will troop on for as long as need be. I just want to make sure I’m approaching things correctly, and I want opinions on their behavior so far.
- 10/03/2017 at 3:06 AM
  Dface
  Participant
  1084 posts
  Pre bonding isn’t really a skippable step. Rabbits need to get used to each others scent and presence, and the idea that the other bun isn’t going to attack them. I have a rabbit room, and simply divided it.
  
  I’d also not use bath sessions. They often provoke rabbits. If this can avoid each other they often will, letting them into a big space they can share and not have to interact cab be more beneficial than forcing them into a showdown every time they see each other.
  
  Ben’s body language is actually all aggression, flopping and grooming like this are basically him saying “I care so little about your presence I’m going to do what I want because you just aren’t a threat”
  Rabbits are the ultimate shade throwers
- 10/03/2017 at 9:34 AM
  Mikey
  Participant
  3186 posts
  Are they both neutered?
- 10/03/2017 at 10:02 AM
  Haley
  Participant
  7 posts
  Thanks for your input! I may have to step back and at least try switching litterboxes for a couple of days, at least. Once I’ve done that, I’ll let them interact in a bigger space instead.
- 10/03/2017 at 10:03 AM
  Haley
  Participant
  7 posts
  Yes, they have both been neutered for years. I completely forgot to mention that!
- 10/03/2017 at 11:39 AM
  Deleted User
  Participant
  22064 posts
  You may not have a difficult pair, it’s just that you’ve skipped all the steps before face to face meetings. How long have you had this rescue bunny? He should be allowed at least 2 weeks to settle in his new home. As Dface said, you really can’t skip prebonding. Going straight to face-to-face meetings is asking for a fight.
  
  I could give more advice if I had a little more info on the setup. Is Ben free roaming while Leo is in a cage? Ideally for prebonding, each bunny has their own space. Is it possible to use baby gates or an xpen to separate a room into two sections- one for each. Then you could switch them into each others “area” to get them used to each others smell.
  
  You might not have fights just because you’re in the tub. The tile floor is slippery so they might decide that they don’t want to risk the fight because they’re insecure about their footing. Since they are definitely wary of each other and one is aggressive, I would bet that they’d be fighting if they were on carpet where they had their footing.
  
  I think that taking things slow is the way to go if you want a lasting bond. You have to take time to cement their trust at each stage. I think you’ll be in for a difficult pairing if you skip prebonding. But to be honest, considering the fact that they have had no prebonding and haven’t been around each other very long (I’m assuming?) that these dates actually went a lot better than they could have.
- 10/04/2017 at 1:31 PM
  Haley
  Participant
  7 posts
  My only issue with the prebonding stage is that Ben considers the whole room his territory, and I don’t want the prebonding to just be doomed to fail. Ben has a kennel that is his “home base” so to speak – with his litterbox, hay, food, and water, and then roams the rest of the room. I do not have an additional room available to temporarily move them to for a better prebonding experience.
  
  What I’ve tried to do is place Leo in an x-pen within the room in an area Ben does not like to frequent. However, despite an xpen and the additional barrier of box a blanket and a pet gate, Ben either finds a way through the barrier and sticks his nose in the pen and gets swatted, or sits as close as possible to the pen, and both Ben and Leo thump at one another. I assume if I take this slowly enough, that eventually the thumping will stop. I want them to by one another as much as possible, but again, this isn’t quite possible in the room that I’m working with. Any tips or tricks to lessening the negative feelings during prebonding, and tips on securing the area?
- 10/04/2017 at 2:41 PM
  Deleted User
  Participant
  22064 posts
  You can’t be concerned with the prebonding being doomed to fail.
  
  If you don’t prebond, then actual bonding will be doomed to fail.
  
  You’ll have to figure out a way to allow them to see/smell without touching. Some people have used NIC storage grids for enclosing buns, since the girds are very small and one bun can’t reach the other bun.
  
  It sounds like you maybe should have foregone the second rabbit if you only have your bedroom to work with. Nevertheless, prebonding is essential
- 10/04/2017 at 2:44 PM
  Ellie from The Netherlands
  Participant
  2512 posts
  I’m sorry that I can’t help you on bonding, but more info on rabbit body language may be helpful. This website is simply amazing: it shows many types of body language with a detailed explanation for each posture:
  
  http://language.rabbitspeak.com/
  
  Best of luck with bonding, there are many people with experience here! (Also, we want to see cute pics once they’re bonded )
  
  Update:
  
  I decided to read some articles on that site again, and I think this explains your situation perfectly:
  
  http://language.rabbitspeak.com/ah-this-is-the-life/
  Note: If rabbits don’t get along they may play a little game one could call “I’m happier than you are.” Usually when a rabbit flops near another it shows how comfortable it is with the other, but with rabbits that are not good friends it can actually be used as a mild insult. When used in this way it means something similar to the “I don’t care about you” insult described later, but more like “I’m happy and you’re a miserable excuse for a rabbit, so there.”
- 10/04/2017 at 5:16 PM
  DanaNM
  Moderator
  9054 posts
  I have successfully bonded two pairs in a studio apartment, so I feel your pain about lack of space.
  
  I recommend buying or borrowing an extra x-pen or two, or a pack or two of storage grid cubes (this is prob the most economical option), so you can divide your room in half with fencing, with a buffer between the fences so they can’t access each other. The goal is to have them both be able to exercise at the same time, etc, and not have one penned up while the other is running free teasing them! it is very important that they are not able to nip each other through the bars.
  
  You might even want to restrict both of them to one main room, and then reserve other spaces as neutral and semi-neutral spaces for your bonding sessions. (I used my bathroom as neutral, and my kitchen as semi-neutral, as it was within sight of the main room).
  
  You want your original bun to loose track of what’s “his” turf by swapping cages, etc. And yes, as everyone has said, pre-bonding is very important for them to realize that the other bunny is not a threat (they learn that life goes on with the other bunny around, and they still get food and pets, etc). I personally have noticed a HUGE difference in behavior between my buns between their first speed-date (with no prebonding) and their first real date, after a few weeks of pre-bonding. Everything should hopefully be much more calm after pre-bonding.
  
  Once you complete pre-bonding, stick to the laundry basket sessions for a while (at least a week), since those seemed to be going well. The bath tub seems to upset them, so I wouldn’t use the tub anymore.
  
  . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
- 10/04/2017 at 7:20 PM
  Haley
  Participant
  7 posts
  @BunNoob – Unfortunately Leo was going to be euthanized that day if I didn’t take him on as a rescue. I was going to simply be a temporary foster, which would have worked out fine, but unfortunately with his medical issues (he has teeth problems), it was all or nothing with taking him home, as the shelter wasn’t able to make him adoptable. I could still theoretically rehome him, but I would love for Ben and Leo to be friends, as Leo’s cute personality has already won my heart.
  
  @Ellie from the Netherlands – Lol. I knew bunnies could be sassy, but throwing shade at one another by flopping is so funny to me. Thanks for the references!
  
  @DanaM – Thanks for you input and appreciation of tight spaces! I welcome your thoughts 100%, and you’ve given me some ideas…
  
  @Everyone who has responded so far – I hear you! Prebonding is essential. I have completely rearranged my room in order to have Ben and Leo’s kennels next to one another (not close enough so that they can nip), rather than on top of one another. This took a lot of tetrising, but I’ll have to put aside my organizing-freak side for now haha. Ben has been revoked of roaming free in this particular room for the time being (which I have to admit hurts my heart and is probably why I didn’t want to rearrange in the first place)… I have an idea of a good place for them to spend time otherwise.
  
  Again, I’ve done a lot of reading on introducing, and I want everyone’s input on techniques for prebonding… I have their litterboxes with hay as close as they’ll allow (they both have preferred corners), and will be feeding them within sight of one another as well. As far as litterboxes go, how often should I switch them? And how often should I simply just switch the kennel that they’re kept in?
  
  They are already doing alright. Both could care less that they are within sight of each other, and are not thumping or rushing the kennel.
- 10/04/2017 at 7:41 PM
  DanaNM
  Moderator
  9054 posts
  You’re welcome!
  
  I’ve always swapped who was in which pen/cage/kennel every day or two when pre-bonding, and I would try to time litter box cleaning so they would spend about 12-24 hrs with a litter box that had been used by the other bunny for 12-24 hours.
  
  I would also always feed them their veggies and pellets near each other, on opposite sides of the fence, so they got used to eating together.
  
  And yes, it can feel very cruel to have to restrict their space, but it’s temporary, and will make things easier in the end.
  
  . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
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