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FORUM HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Desperate help needed UK. Dental emergency

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    • puffs-of-fluff
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        Hey everyone, Ethel is really unwell. She has been back and forth to the vet for the last month or so. And yesterday got a referral to supposedly one of the best exotic vets in Europe.

        She has an abscess in her Jaw, and following a CT scan yesterday, we can see that it is eroding away the bone in places. We believe the back molar is responsible, and the abscess is also sitting under the manidibular muscle. The specialist has told me that she does not think the prognosis is good, that she feels she won’t reach to operate through the mouth, but will need to go through the cheek; and she feels the op may kill her as she is unsure where the arteries and nerves are now, due to deformation.

        I spent most of yesterday sobbing as you can imagine. However, after some investigation on here, it seems that her situation is less rare than the vet had me believe. She said that she had only done 2 of these surgeries, only one was successful. Now I’m thinking, I don’t need an exotic specialist, I need a very experienced rabbit dentist.

        Looking at the previous posts, everyone is recommending Frances Harcourt Brown, but I was gutted to find she has retired. She was in Yorkshire, and I’m in Southampton, but I will travel anywhere for Ethel. However, obviously, if anyone knows a genius close by, then that would be great for her.

        Money wise. I’ve already spent £500 on blood work, molar trim and meds. And then £750 on a CT scan. I’ve been quoted £1000 by the exotic specialist to do the op (but I’m doubting she is the right choice now). Ethel is unfortunately uninsured for dental related problems. Everything has to be paid for by me. Money is no object when it comes to her, but I’m not rich and am afraid I’m going to run out of cash soon.

        Please help. Name me a dentistry wizard that has fixed this in your buns xxxx


      • Bam
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          I don’t know about rabbit dentists, but we have a member whose rabbit was treated by Livia Benato. The other UK top rabbit vets I know of are Molly Varga and Richard Saunders. It really is a shame that Frances Harcourt-Brown has retired =(


        • Sirius&Luna
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            I don’t have any personal experience with dental problems at this vet, but they have three rabbit specialist vets at the Beaumont Sainsbury Animal Hospital in Camden, London. It’s part of the Royal Veterinary College, and the dealings I’ve had with them have been really really excellent. They also have specialised rabbit nurses, and a separate boarding room for bunnies. When Sirius was really sick, a nurse and a vet stayed with him all night, and regularly phoned me with updates. Vicky and Nadene are the bunny vets I’ve met, but I believe there’s a third too – I’m not sure if they have different specialisms.

            I imagine, since dental problems are so common in rabbits, the Beaumont team would be experienced in dental issues. At the very least, I would give them a call and ask to talk to one of the bunny vets and see what they advise.


          • jerseygirl
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              Try contacting John Chitty’s clinic in Andover. Either to get appt with him or get some names of vets he recommends.
              http://antonvets.co.uk/exotics/189-2/
              This is from that page:

              Co-editor of the “Manual of Rabbit Imaging Surgery and Dentistry” (BSAVA 2013). Chapters written for this volume on ear and sinus surgery as well as dental abscesses.


            • puffs-of-fluff
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                Thank you both for your replies. I have just contacted the Beaufort practice and am waiting on a call back.

                I have heard of Richard Saunders, he is who my vet originally wanted to refer me to, but said he had left Bristol university veterinary practice where he had previously been and that now he works for rabbit welfare. Do you know if he is still performing surgeries?

                I have also left a message for John, he does a satalite surgery at my practice, but my vet said that the referral she has made for me is better as they have more equipment???? Waiting to hear what john says

                The vet I have been referred to is Elizabetta Mancinelli. Does anyone have any experience of her with buns?

                Many thanks


              • puffs-of-fluff
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                  However, the fact that John chitty has written a book on abscesses makes me hopeful. Has anyone used him before?


                • joea64
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                    Posted By puffs-of-fluff on 9/29/2017 1:43 PM

                    Thank you both for your replies. I have just contacted the Beaufort practice and am waiting on a call back.

                    I have heard of Richard Saunders, he is who my vet originally wanted to refer me to, but said he had left Bristol university veterinary practice where he had previously been and that now he works for rabbit welfare. Do you know if he is still performing surgeries?

                    I have also left a message for John, he does a satalite surgery at my practice, but my vet said that the referral she has made for me is better as they have more equipment???? Waiting to hear what john says

                    The vet I have been referred to is Elizabetta Mancinelli. Does anyone have any experience of her with buns?

                    Many thanks

                    Being an American, I’m not the one to be giving you definitive advice on British vets! However, I just googled Elizabetta Mancinelli, who you’ve been referred to, and she does appear to be experienced with bunnies. She’s contributed papers to several conferences in the UK on rabbit medicines, including one called “The Rabbit Friendly Practice”, and appears to work frequently with the rabbit-welfare organization. So it certainly couldn’t hurt to contact her office and at least discuss the problem.


                  • puffs-of-fluff
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                      @joea64 sorry if it wasn’t clear, or you missed my first post. I have already been to see her yesterday. She is one of the leading exotics vets in Europe and she was very good, knowledgable and lovely. Her consultation alone was about 90 minutes and very thorough. However, she said she has only performed the particular surgery needed (as it’s rarer) two times before, with a 50% success rate.

                      So that’s the reason I’m trying to find a vet that maybe has more experience with this particular surgery.

                      I know she is very well qualified, but I was hoping someone would know a very experienced dental vet who might have seen this a few more times.

                      As an update: John Chitty called me back tonight (from home at 9:30pm – which is above and beyond – I was really impressed with how much he seems to care about my bun’s welfare). He said he knows Elizabetta, and will liaise with her about Ethel’s case. But he agreed it was a complicated operation and had only experience it a handful of times too.

                      Hopefully whoever is more confident will take the case


                    • jerseygirl
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                        Wow, that was good of him! Im glad he knows of the other vet also. Where does she practice?
                        I was mistaken also, thinking you were yet to see her. Her credentials are impressive. What is the operation she is proposing exactly? Are they looking to remove part of the lower jaw altogether?


                      • Anna
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                          I second the recommendation for the RVC in Camden. I see Nadine as she is absolutely brilliant.

                          Sending you all the luck xx


                        • puffs-of-fluff
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                            She is proposing to go in through the cheek and through the muscle, then to extract the fragmented tooth root through the abscess. Ethel’s jaw anatomy has become disfigured from the abscess, and vet is no longer sure where the blood vessels and nerves lie in that major muscle. So she was concerned that she will cut into the wrong place.

                            Awaiting the detailed CT results tomorrow to check how much of the jaw bone has been compromised. Preliminary results show whole left side is affected, and it’s possible that the infection is right the way through the thickness of the bone – which I think means she can’t file away the bone infection completely?

                            Ethel is nearly 4, and has never had teeth problems before now. She started showing signs of illness about 5 weeks ago but we weren’t sure what it was – teeth looked fine. When she started drooling (3 weeks ago) she went under GA for a molar examination and they removed a tiny spur which my vet was confused at why it would cause so many problems. Did an X-ray which showed very mild dental disease in the roots – but vet said she had seen plenty worse that barely affected the bun as long as didn’t get worse. And gums looked fine. Took her back the next week as she wasn’t getting better, and an abscess had popped up.

                            So this abscess has caused this potentially fatal problem in 2 weeks.

                            Obviously the infection was there when the pain started, it just hadn’t manifested yet. I feel so much regret for not knowing it was there, and don’t want to lose my baby girl


                          • puffs-of-fluff
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                              Oh, and Elizabetta is in Bristol – highcroft vets. Her credentials are amazing, which is why my vet referred me there (she knows Ethel isn’t just a rabbit). She was so knowledgable. I’m just scared that she’s only done this op twice.

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                          FORUM HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Desperate help needed UK. Dental emergency