FORUM

What are we about?  Please read about our Forum Culture and check out the Rules

BUNNY 911 – If your rabbit hasn’t eaten or pooped in 12-24 hours, call a vet immediately!  Don’t have a vet? Check out VET RESOURCES 

The subject of intentional breeding or meat rabbits is prohibited. The answers provided on this board are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet.  It is your responsibility to assess the information being given and seek professional advice/second opinion from your veterinarian and/or qualified behaviorist.

BINKYBUNNY FORUMS

FORUM HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Precious nephrology report

Viewing 19 reply threads
  • Author
    Messages

    • Dee
      Participant
      704 posts Send Private Message

        Just wanted to let you all know the results. The vet wrote, “There was a blockage with reduced blood flow to the intestines and a secondary infection. Sadly, even if we had gone to surgery, I don’t think it would have changed the outcome.” I immediately thought that maybe Precious had eaten some rugs- she was forever ripping it up, but never seemed to eat it. And she was unable to hop on our tile and hardwood floors so she had to have rugs. But the autopsy report read:

        The abdomen is markedly descended and obstructed by a dense matt of dessicated ingesta admixed with some hair. There is venous distension along lesser curvature of the stomach. There is diffuse purple discoloration of the cecum.

        The only other abnormality noted was:

        There is coalescing dark red discoloration in the caudal section of the lungs bilaterally.

        I haven’t researched the discoloration of the lungs yet, but I’m wondering if it’s due to the distension of the stomach. I don’t think she ate anything like rug fibers though, because the report said “ingesta admixed with some hair”. I would imagine if there was foreign material causing,the blockage, it would be noted. We are still waiting on pathology to see if there was anything contagious going on. My poor Precious- she was the sweetest bunny. I’ll post on the Rainbow Bridge when I can do it without falling apart. I’m so sad, this feels like a bad dream. And I keep reminding myself that the other times that I took her to the vet during her belly aches, they did nothing except Xrays and she got better with home treatment- so this time was different. Even if I HAD taken her to the vet, it was going to be serious. Maybe they could’ve saved her if they hydrated her quickly enough and the obstruction was small enough- but maybe not. Every time I start to obsess about WHY I did t bring her in the middle of the night, I think of the kind words of comfort I have received here, and tell myself,”I did what I thought was best, the best I could.”

        Today Lukie refused to eat ???. He has gotten gas twice in the 2+ years I’ve had him and recovered within an hour. I was TERRIFIED, so panicked I forgot where I put the bunny medication for a few minutes. I had to chase him all around the house to catch him, then cuddled him in a blanket and gave him simethicone and belly rubs. He started to shiver and his ears felt cold, and I thought that I was going to lose him too, that this was some horrible contagious illness. Fortunately, after about 30 minutes I felt some bubbles of gas work their way through his belly, and then he began struggling to get down. I let him down and did the treat test- he gobbled up 2 pieces of apple. Then, after sulking for a while over the indignity of it all, he ate his greens and is now eating hay. Back to his regular greedy self, Thank God. I have to go to work in an hour- I would’ve called out if he wasn’t right though. I missed 2 days last week because of Precious- fortunately my boss is great and I’ve been there for a while.

        But what is going on?? Just coincidence maybe, or is it something I’m feeding them, I wonder. Their greens are all organic and washed three times by me. Their hay is specially ordered and great quality. Their pellets are Science Select adult rabbit. They get a couple oats (Quaker rolled oats) for a treat,and Lukie occasionally steals a bite of my Outshine Strawberry pops- bad for his teeth, but if he sees that I have one, there is no denying him! Once in a while I give a couple pieces of Apple or banana for a treat. That’s it! I am getting rid of their pellets and ordering new ones, since that bag had been open for at least 2 months. Maybe the pellets are bad?! I’m really paranoid now!

        If anyone had any ideas, please let me know! Don’t worry about hurting my feelings or being critical- I welcome all suggestions if they might help keep my Lukie safe.
        Thanks, everyone!!!


      • Mikey
        Participant
        3186 posts Send Private Message

          Im sorry this has happened

          From what I understand, it sounds like the hair and dried ingesta caused a blockage. A blockage in a rabbits GI track can cause a lot of problems with the surrounding organs, often leading in death if not taken care of immediately. Sadly, rabbits are very great at hiding the fact they are having discomfort or pain, so finding things like blockages in your buns GI can be very, very hard.

          If you feel the same thing is happening with your second bunny, I would start grooming daily as the vet noted that hair was part of the blockage. And I would research every bit of his diet (every ingredient, how it was prepared, when it goes bad, ect) to figure out if something else he is eating could also cause a blockage.


        • Dee
          Participant
          704 posts Send Private Message

            Thank you, Mikey. I feel so badly, because I have always jumped the gun on bringing the buns to the vet, and I did that a few times with Precious. She had frequent belly aches, and they were always gas. Each time they Xrayed her belly, pronounced her clear of blockage and sent me home with Metacam and Critical Care. I also always keep simethicone and ranitidine on hand. The only thing I don’t have subQ fluids, and of course, IV meds like Reglan. I learned that I could get Precious through her episodes without the stress and expense of an immediate vet visit. That last time, though, something went wrong. The usual treatment didn’t work, and by the time I began to worry about how long it was lasting, my regular vet was closed. So I stayed up all night with her, and she seemed like she was just about to start eating and pooping. She was staying warm on her own, hopping around, grooming herself, and once in a while she would go to her hay/greens and almost eat but then stop. I even listened with my stethoscope for belly sounds- they were diminished by not silent, and they started to pick up at about 4-6am. Now I wish I had just taken her. Although who knows if it would’ve helped- when I did bring her to my vet, she sent us straight to Tufts, where they delayed treatment for FIVE HOURS. I think that if she had a chance after my delay in taking her, that took it away.

            I wish I could do it over. I’m trying to let go of the guilt but it keeps coming back to me. Maybe if she had gotten really aggressive treatment, IV Reglan and fluids, right at the crucial time, maybe she would’ve lived.

            I am not feeding any pellets right now. I’m going to order some new pellets, and until then Luke can do without them.

            The only thing I can think of is that we got 3 new boxes of hay in the past few weeks. It is really fresh and smells great, but I wonder if there could be some type of weed in it…? I’m going to email the place and ask, although it’s a small business and I think they would’ve sent out a warning if they heard of any illness or if one of their bunnies got sick after eating it. To not let Luke eat over $120 worth of hay, and completely start over with hay seems crazy but it would be worth it if that was the culprit!

            If anyone has ever had an experience with buns getting sick from hay- or pellets- please let me know! Sorry for the long posts- I try to keep them braid and still end up going on forever.


          • Mikey
            Participant
            3186 posts Send Private Message

              Its ok! You did what you thought was right, and did not see any real signs to make you think it was an emergency. Bunnies are very good at hiding their pain and illness as theyre prey animals. Im sure weve all been in a position where we were not sure if it was an emergency or not, but had to or chose to wait another day or two. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it does not, but no matter what, it is not your fault. You did what you thought was right, based on the signs she was showing you. I am still sorry to hear that happened to you That is pretty disturbing they made her wait 5 hours for treatment. Did they ever explain why?

              I would try to check each bundle of hay, if possible. Does each one smell right? Does it smell sweet? Is it brighter or darker than usual hay of the same type? Does it feel right? If you dip a leaf in water, does some coloring come off quickly? These are all basic signs that I know of that something is wrong with the hay. Of course, if you are even questioning something could be wrong with the hay, it is always better to toss it and get a new bundle just in case


            • Bam
              Moderator
              17044 posts Send Private Message

                I’m very sorry about Precious. I too think the discoloration of the lower parts of her lungs could be due to pressure from the distended belly. It’s classic bloat.

                It’s not possible to say if early treatment could’ve saved her. We can’t know what’s really going on inside our buns without extensive testing. I have found a very good rabbit vet now, but they’re only open during office hours and it’s an hour drive. My frequently tummy-troubled Yohio went to the vet many times and was perked up with warmed up fluids, but there was never any real investigation into what really failed him. They said he had dental problems but after he passed, I’ve begun to question that diagnosis. If I’d had the good rabbit vet back then…So many ifs and whys =( I guess we are all haunted by those when something like this happens.

                I can very well understand how you must’ve freaked out when Lukie refused food. I’m glad he snapped out of it. They do get gas sometimes. 

                Hay that’s not been stored properly can potentially make any hay-eating animal sick, but problems are a lot more common with haysilage. But there’s still the possibility of mold and you might not notice it when you smell the hay. I think experienced farmers can though, they often also taste the hay. 

                ETA: Looked it up more carefully, a microbial analysis is required to detect harmful fungi or bacteria in hay. It’s really difficult to determine by looking and smelling. 


              • Dee
                Participant
                704 posts Send Private Message

                  Thank you so much, Mikey and Bam. I can’t believe I’m writing this, but this morning Luke was not eating again. I grabbed him, gave simethicone and did belly rubs. I could feel huge bubbles or something moving through his belly, but it just wasn’t getting better. He was breathing hard and kept panicking and trying to claw his say our of my arms. I have him Metacam but that didn’t seem to touch it. All I could think of is a blockage, or some horrendous infection that causes bloat. I rushed him,to my old vet, since Im so disgusted with my former regular vet and Tufts. He immediately took him,and began Xrays and treatment. He said he doesn’t see anything that looks like a blockage, so he’s giving Reglan Iv, fluids, force feeding Critical Care. He is sending him,home with me at 12:30 with Reglan and Critical Care. I have a little Metacam on hand and can call if I need more.

                  I’m stopping at the store for Pedialyte and Benebac and fresh greens. This is just crazy. I’m only using the be and new hay that came in after Precious died. If its the hay, it must be the other hay that they had before the,new shipment. I am really scared that I will lose Luke.

                  I’ll keep you all posted. Thanks so much!


                • Dee
                  Participant
                  704 posts Send Private Message

                    Oh yeah- I found a clumped together string of Luke’s poop full of fur, and a peice of my couch bitten. That could be the issue, but he chews on,everything and doesn’t eat it. So that COULD be it, and just crazy timing, but I don’t know…


                  • Fluffykins
                    Participant
                    239 posts Send Private Message

                      Oh Dee how awful that the stress is continuing!!

                      I hope everything is ok with Luke, keeping you both in my thoughts.


                    • Dface
                      Participant
                      1084 posts Send Private Message

                        My thoughts are with you and Luke, Dee.
                        I’m really hopeful he’ll be okay. It’s awful timing, but you are doing everything that can be done for him.

                        Maybe up his regular brushing for a bit to help? I actually use a little lint roller on my girl, just to get the worst of the fur out -she tends to get lots of fur clumped poop if I’m not really on top of rolling and brushing her.


                      • Mikey
                        Participant
                        3186 posts Send Private Message

                          Good on acting fast! I am so sorry to hear he is having problems now, too Keep using the newer hay, and its a great idea youre picking up extra stuff at the store just in case! I would try to work on making sure he cant chew on the couch any more, just in case. Im not sure if it will help, but all three of my bunnies hate the taste and smell of lime, so things they shouldnt chew on, I put lime juice on. Maybe that could help curb his chewing? Definitely try to brush him everyday.

                          I kind of understand this issue. My Bombur has a horribly sensitive tummy and needs a specific diet or he gets very sick. I also need to brush him every few days when hes not shedding, and need to brush him for hours when he is shedding to make sure he doesnt ingest too much of it when he grooms himself.


                        • Dee
                          Participant
                          704 posts Send Private Message

                            Thank you so much for your replies, Mikey, Bam, Dface and Fluffykins. You are all making this more bearable to get through!

                            Lukie is doing pretty well ☺ He’s eating hay as we speak, and has pooped!!! Yay!!! He actually went a couple hours after arriving home from the vets- so just like Precious, he went well over 12 hours without pooping. Yet his situation seems so much different. He was in an insane amount of pain this morning, I was sure his stomach was rupturing as I held him- yet it was not even blocked or even in complete stasis. And there was Precious, nonchalantly grooming herself and hopping around, with her stomach obstructed. I don’t get bunnies at all.

                            When we got home from the vet, Luke wouldn’t come out of his carrier. I took him out and put him on the floor, and he just crouched there shaking. I was so scared that he was in worse shape than before. His belly even felt hard and like there was a lump in it. But I made myself stay calm and put the blanket over him and did very light belly rubs, and he stopped shaking and his belly relaxed and I felt movement, but he wasn’t reacting painfully. He wouldn’t leave my lap for the longest time though, and Luke normally hates being held!

                            My vet send me home with Reglan- well, metoclopramide tablets. They are split into 1/8ths. I crushed one and gave it to Luke in water with a dab of maple syrup (the honey I have is ancient). He didn’t like it at all, is very stressed, as I knew he would be. However I felt that skipping the dose just because he’s eating and pooping would be foolish. He could go back to the way he way before and then I would be furious with myself.

                            Hopefully things will improve steadily from here. I’ll keep you all posted- thanks for listening!!!


                          • Bam
                            Moderator
                            17044 posts Send Private Message

                              How incredibly scary! Could he be missing Precious? Losing a bonded mate can be very stressful and stress changes the pH in the gut, among lots of other things.

                              Molting is always a factor too. So relieving there was no blockage on the X-rays.

                              My Bam also sits willingly in my lap when he has gas. It’s like they know we’re helping them.


                            • Louisa
                              Participant
                              19 posts Send Private Message

                                i’m so sorry to hear about Precious – reading your thread on that brought a lump to my throat and i have given my two bunnies (both of whom have been rushed to emergency vet several times in the past for GI Stasis and have had £’000s spent on their treatment) extra treats and cuddles. It could happen to anyone, and i have been in the situation before when i have thought i was losing a bunny due to my inaction. Don;t blame yourself, you did the best you could with the information you had.

                                I wonder if your Lukie is mourning Precious, which is adding to his stress and tummy problems? the great thing is you’re keeping an eye on him so you know what’s going on. i am sending you love and prayers, little Lukie will pull through, he just needs time and love, both of which you are giving him.

                                my little Jon Bun Jovi hates being cuddled, but sits in my lap quietly (occasionally trying to burrow into my leg..!) being cuddled when he’s ill. It’s a small consolation that i take that when he’s scared or not feeling well, he feels comfortable and safe in my arms. I am sure your Lukie feels the same, and that’s a huge compliment to the bond you have. <3


                              • Mikey
                                Participant
                                3186 posts Send Private Message

                                  I agree that its like bunnys know we cuddle them to help them feel better when they are not feeling well. Keep doing what you can to help him feel calm and warm

                                  How is he doing today?


                                • Dee
                                  Participant
                                  704 posts Send Private Message

                                    Thank you all for your support ☺. I can’t tell you how much it helps!

                                    I’ve noticed my bunnies are often tolerant of being held when they are sick too! It’s usually a sign that has pains have passed when they begin,to struggle to get down. They are so intuitive and smart.

                                    Lukie is doing OK today. I’m nervous because he is not better than yesterday. I was hoping that I would see some real improvement in appetite and pooping quantity today, but he hasn’t pooped since early this morning and is still only eating small amounts of hay. He will eat kale, apples and banana pieces, and oats too, but if course I need to be careful not to feed to much sugary fruit, and I just gave him maybe 8 oats, really just to see if he would eat them. I’m too afraid that they will have a binding effect on his tummy. If anyone knows differently, please let me know, but I’ve always thought oats were a real junk food for bunnies, to be given in tiny bits of at all. He has eaten some cecals though, which is great! And has not left any laying around- also good.

                                    I gave him 1/8 tablet of Reglan this morning, 0.6 ml of Metacam, and about 5mls of Critical Care a2nd pumpkin, plus a little plain water. It’s hard to tell if he’s in pain- he was doing this little chomping thing with his mouth earlier that he doesn’t do normally, so I gave him the Metacam.

                                    I’m thinking that he should be getting more Reglan maybe- 1/8 of a 10mg tablet is only 1.25mg, and I thought I saw that rabbits get 1mg/kg tid. Of anyone has experience with Reglan (metoclopramide) dosage, please tell me what your bunny gets! I won’t do anything different on my own, but I could at least call one of my vets and ask. Also, I was reading that new research shows that Metacam should be given to rabbits at a higher dose than previously thought- 0.5mg/kg rather than 0.1-0.2mg/kg. I did see it noted on one website that it CAN be given up to 1.5mg/kg- quite a leap from the lowest dosage! So confusing. I want Luke to have enough meds to be effective, but of course not too much.

                                    He is also grooming himself A LOT, not in one particular place really, but it’s driving me crazy because he’s molding a bit and he doesn’t need to be ingesting more hair!! I can’t stop him though, although Im making sure to give him massages and grooms to get the loose hair off.

                                    In about an hour I’m going to give him some more Critical Care and pumkin and water. I hate chasing him and picking him up and making him eat and drink, but he’s actually pretty good about the feeding, doesn’t mind the Metacam, and LOVES the simethicone. I guess I’ll give him a dose of that too, unless it can be given with Raglan?

                                    Oh, I’m response to Bam and Mikey regarding the hay- thanks for the info!
                                    I thought it over and since the hay comes in a variety box of 4 different hays, plus was received in 3 separate shipments, it doesn’t make sense for it to be the hay. I still check it carefully, but they get such a huge mixture that it would be hard for them to get much of the “bad” hay, if there was any.

                                    Bam and Louisa, I think you’re right- Luke misses Precious. He spent the first couple days after she died sitting under “her” kitchen table. She lived in the kitchen, Lukie in the living room and my bedroom, although I swapped them back and forth for variety.

                                    Does anyone else struggle with deciding to syringe feed their bunny, or let them be, when they are eating a bit on their own? It seems to upset Luke so much, but I’m afraid he’s not eating enough to get his tummy going. Ugh, so stressful.


                                  • Dee
                                    Participant
                                    704 posts Send Private Message

                                      Sorry- double post!


                                    • Mikey
                                      Participant
                                      3186 posts Send Private Message

                                        I cant really help with meds and doses, but he does seem to be doing a little better alteast. Sickly rabbits dont groom themselves, so its great he still has some motivation for that. All you can really do to help his grooming is to brush him and pluck off any loose fur you see. Its great that he is willing to eat a few things too! Kale is a good green for bunnies to eat, so if he is willing to eat that, you can keep trying to tempt him with some often

                                        For force feeding, when I had to, I would do it every few hours and only one smaller syringe at a time. Each time before and after, I would also tempt with hay, pellets, and greens, just in case they had a little bit of an appetite.


                                      • Dee
                                        Participant
                                        704 posts Send Private Message

                                          Thanks, Mikey ☺!

                                          I’m pleased to report that Lukie actually ate some parsley and cilantro, which he refused all day! He has also been nibbling his hay. I syringe fed him about 15ml of Critical Care and pumpkin and gave him a dose of simethicone at about 5:00. Then I gave him a nice belly massage, which he tolerated quite well. He actually started licking my arm at one point! The only rabbit that every did that to me was my wonderful BunBun, my first bunny.

                                          I’m just leaving the meds as is. I regret not giving Luke the Reglan a little earlier when I syringe fed him though- now I have to catch him and scare him all over again. Poor baby. But I’m afraid to skip it, because if I do and then he stops pooping or eating, I’ll be kicking myself! I’ve been frightening myself by reading up on Reglan/Propulsid, so now it makes me nervous to give it if it’s not absolutely necessary.

                                          Well, I’m off to see if Lukie has emerged from his litter box yet. Hopefully he’s done some nice poops! And I thought I was obsessed with my rabbits’ poop before… ?

                                          Again, thank you so much to everyone who has replied to me! ☺


                                        • Mikey
                                          Participant
                                          3186 posts Send Private Message

                                            Woohoo! Glad his appetite is starting to grow! Its very sweet that he is allowing you to massage him, and offering you licks in return. Lukie sounds like a super sweet bunny

                                            Assume all meds are necessary for right now. Your vet wouldnt purposely proscribe something with side effects, if they did not believe the pros out wieghed the cons for this situation. Of course, if you notice anything that worries you, it doesnt hurt to call up the vet for advice


                                          • Dee
                                            Participant
                                            704 posts Send Private Message

                                              Thanks again, Mikey ☺- I so appreciate you’re helping me through this!! Yeah, Lukie is a very sweet bunny. He was born in a shelter and was a year before I adopted him, so it took over 8 months for him to even let me pet him!! Since he was so mistrusting, it was extra amazing to have him get so loving. He even slept on my pillow at night for a while! Until he realized that roaming the house was much more fun ?.

                                              Luke is doing well today, but we have a really scary experience this morning. At about 5:30am, I gave him some dandelion greens, which he had refused up until then, and he inhaled them. But then when I told him to eat his hay, he turned his back. It was time for his randitine, so I gave him that, simethicone and about 6ml of Critical Care, pumpkin and water- plus maybe 5ml extra water. Well, it must have been too much all at once with the dandelion greens, because afterward he got terrible belly pain. I think it was gas because I could feel big bubbles moving through his stomach. It was almost as bad as the pain that made me rush him to the vet yesterday morning. I gave him a dose of Metacam and just sat there holding him with his bum elevated, praying for him to feel better. He was breathing so fast I thought he might die. Even though he had just pooped, I was starting to have horrifying thoughts of a sudden obstruction, and me pushing Critical Care in there (that haunts me about Precious, thinking she may have been obstructed while I was syringe feeding her). Finally – probably really only 10 minutes later- the pain let up and he squiggled to be let go. He went and groomed himself, looking very offended, and then was munching on hay within the hour. Crazy.

                                              He also seems to have decided I am no longer his favorite person. The past 2 nights he has slept next to me on the couch so I could cuddle and pet him, and generally wanted to be near me all the time. After the ordeal this morning, I’ve gotten bunny butt, the bunny version of flipping me off (flicking of the hind feet), and general looks of disgust when I offer him hay (although he’ll eat it if I’m not watching). He does accept greens and banana from,3 though ?. I think he might be getting back to his old self. I really hope so!

                                              I have to work overnight (10pm-8am) tomorrow night and I’m already worried about leaving him. My husband will check on him, but doesn’t know how to pick him up or medicate him. I might start a thread asking what everyone else does about work with sick bunnies? I work with developmentally and physically disabled people, some completely bedridden, and it’s tough if someone calls out because our residents need to be cared for no matter what.

                                              Sorry for the usual endless post!

                                          Viewing 19 reply threads
                                          • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

                                          FORUM HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Precious nephrology report