Oh yay!!! That’s so exciting to hear!!! I’m glad it’s working out! I remember how aggressive Ophelia used to get when she smelled Quincy on you ?

I must admit I’ve been eagerly waiting for when you begin to bond your two because I felt the exact same about the prospect of my two bonding. Trixie is nearly 5 weeks post spay and I began sessions a week and half ago because I just thought what the heck it feels right. It was extremely nerve wracking and I was terrified. The first session I could hear my heart ready to jump out of my chest. But after that things just went so well and my confidence just grew. The more you do it the better it feels and it’s such a buzz seeing all the positive signs. I’ve had progress in every session and I have just done my first night of supervision and set up camp on my sofa. Best of luck for your two and I hope things continue. What a love story that will be once you succeed

Hahahaha, I know you guys were kidding! I’m not crazy I swear lol!! I have been so patient. Quincy’s neuter just went wonderfully and he is the chillest little dude, Ophelia is the one I was worried about. Since I was going to bond in 2 weeks, I’ve been putting the carrier down with Ophelia in it and the past few days they have nose booped through the thing with no grunting or attempted “boxing”…. so….. while I sat here trying to figure out the best place to put each of them for the storm I thought “Screw it, let’s see where we are at here. I have the next 3 days off, my school work has mostly been postponed, and I’m going to be stuck inside anyway. Worst case is they stay separated”.

So this first session was about 3 1/2 hours. For the first 20 minutes they just ate and ignored each other besides a few sniffs from Ophelia (I was being a helicopter mom and put the dustpan between her and him when she went close to him). After that 20 minutes they were stuck together like glue!!! I honestly think Ophelia loves him you guys! She flopped against him SO much. Like too many times to count. And he was relaxed as well but not as affectionate as her (she is just a more cuddly bun). We had plenty of grooming standoffs and unfortunately I didn’t have any banana yesterday since I hadn’t planned on doing this!

After 3 hours of nothing but cuddles in the tub, I moved them to the bathroom floor. I was a little worried because it’s not really neutral. Still no fights, but I separated them after about 30 minutes because Ophelia started humping. I may have messed up a bit here because I got worried. She started humping him and he let her, but after about 10 seconds I tried to push her off before she annoyed him, but she actually got annoyed at ME and ended up giving him a small nip in the process, to which he hopped away from her and went in the corner. She tried humping again but he was just running away so I thought, let’s just end it here before we end up at a fight.

Suggestions on humping? How long do I let her go for? If he just takes it do I let him? If she starts to grab his fur I should separate right? I think I interfered because I panicked and I was honestly a little uncomfortable with the sight of it lol.

Ophelia literally flopped on his face lmao

SO MUCH SNUGGLES!!! Look at the happy couple

Quincy REALLY putting himself out there for some grooms….Ophelia says I don’t think so

Somehow this happened

Posted By Q8bunny on 9/08/2017 11:37 PM

And don’t let something like a wittle hurricane get in the way of posting lots of pictures for us!

On a somber note: you and the furbabies are safe at home. Is your hub with you guys? Hoping all four of you got off from work to avoid the nasty weather.

So the more it shifts west, the worse it is looking for us. People are starting to take it more seriously so hopefully with everyone prepared it won’t be that bad after it all passes. I’m much happier knowing that I can keep an eye on the buns and they have each other during this!

My husband’s job says he has to work Monday. He told them he’s not leaving me home alone during this without a vehicle (we only have one car) so I guess he’s off too!  

my pictures didn’t show up but I’m confused because I saw them when I posted it. Idk what happened!

Today we have done another 3 hours. But I just separated them because I need to get everything in the house in order before the storm comes. Unfortunately I think they both want to be dominant? not sure. Ophelia is the only one that has tried mounting, but he doesn’t want her to. He got scared after she tried twice today and then he avoided her for about an hour in the tub and sat in a corner balled up. No fighting still so that’s good! A few times they have been spooked by something or accidentally scratched each other (while scratching ears being too close to other bun). Ophelia grunted once when he scratched her by accident and they both stopped and kind of stared at each other, then went back to normal. So overall I think we are doing ok just have to get one to decide to submit…. several situations could have turned into scuffles but they stopped immediately without me having to intervene.

Oh dammit. I spoke too soon. Ophelia has tried to mount several times and every time he gets upset. The last two times turned into minor scuffles. No nipping from what I can tell but just a quick blur of popcorning into the air and grunting. I really don’t know how to handle this mounting situation because if I don’t stop it, it will be a fight. Maybe I am pushing them too much? The first two 3 hour sessions went great, but I think Quincy is getting aggravated with her. Can we just skip this part?!

He clearly doesn’t want to be mounted at all. I think he needs more time to calm down. After the first attempted mount he has been quite high stress at each session. If she seemed like she was going to try mounting he would grunt or try to scratch at her in the session last night. It was short, so I just separated and gave them a good 18 hours apart. It’s like they have switched roles: she is really chill during the sessions and he looks like he’s stressed. 

We just did a 1 hr session on the bathroom floor instead of tub. At first they ignored each other. He was obviously stressed so I sat with him and just pet him for about 20 minutes then he relaxed, hopped around and they stopped ignoring each other. Every time she went to his rear I put the dustpan between them so she couldn’t mount. I know that they need to figure it out but I think Quincy needs to settle and be a little more comfortable. He presented for grooms a few times quite forcefully. He would just shove his face under hers and she would ignore it, then hop away. Finally, in the last 15 minutes of the session they cuddled up to each other face to face and I just pet them both and Quincy gave in and groomed her head for a few minutes. Then he stopped and she groomed him for a few minutes. They cuddled a little more then flopped on opposite ends of the bathroom so I decided that was a good spot to stop.

Had another 1 hour session. They have each taken turns grooming, but Quincy is being more demanding about it. He groomed her twice and she has groomed him 4 times. I know it can hinder the process to stop it. I’m just trying to make it through this storm tonight without ending up with fighting buns lol

Next session I will try to not interfere as much and we will see how it goes!

Dface- yeah see that’s why I kept interfering because I could tell her got really tense when she would get behind him so I would push her off before she got the chance to mount. It’s funny how he’s acting because he’s usually very sweet and chill. I imagine him saying to Ophelia “look I’m a nice guy, but I won’t be your b*****” lmao

Joe- yeah it’s great that it wasn’t what we were all expecting! We didn’t lose power which is awesome. Still have strong winds coming through but last night around 2am was the worst of it for us. We decided to stay up and see what all the fuss was about I don’t think they noticed it at all!

Gonna try a few sessions today. Debating taking things to the kitchen instead, because in the bathroom they can get behind the toilet and I have an over the toilet space saver thing so it would be hard to get at them if he runs back there to hide from her and she follows.

So the bathroom floor is working out fine, both sessions yesterday were 1 hour.

No fights. Lots of flopping. Some cuddling.

Ophelia has not tried to mount in the last few sessions. She may go toward his backside and kinda looks like she might, and when she does he freezes up and his pupils get tiny and he looks like he’s gonna freak out. So when she goes behind him I just push her back to his side.

Quincy is more forceful in demanding grooms. He gave in first and groomed her, then she groomed him. Since then, he will groom her sometimes but mostly she is grooming him and then asking for grooms and he refuses (most of the time).

About the mounting, I understand that they need to go through that and I want to let them sort it out, but he is so uncomfortable with it. I’d rather them take longer to figure it out than push them into a fight and have to take a step back. Since this is my first rodeo, I’m a little unsure on how to proceed. Do I need to wait until they mount and figure that out before switching to semi-neutral territory?

OMG I know, I can’t contain myself when they are all snuggly.

I think that I have learned something about Ophelia in this whole process. I thought she became kind of aggressive after her spay. But after some experiments last week, I think I have figured out that she wants a LOT of attention and she wasn’t getting enough since Quincy came home and I have had to spilt my time between the two. I think she is just a very, very affectionate bun and she gets upset when she doesn’t get it. She has been snuggling with me lately SO much and letting me do stuff she never used to, like check her teeth!

Thanks for the advice, Dana! I started with doing 3 hour sessions but after two of those in one day, they just went to staying away from each other. So I did two 1 hour sessions daily for the next two days. I only have a few hours after work so I think I will try doing like 3 hours after work for the remainder of the week, and hopefully by this weekend they would be ready for a marathon type thing!

The only thing is, my family is all out of power from the storm, so my apartment is basically a shower shelter for them lol. I’m trying to get everyone to agree to coming at the same time to shower, since I only have about 4-5 hours after work before I need to get to bed. And since I have already started bonding, I don’t think taking a break from sessions is a good idea.

Honestly, this entire year has been so hard on me. Everyone can tell, I’m always told that I look stressed or like I am having a bad day…and I can personally tell since I’ve gained a good bit of weight this year… Once they are bonded that’s one less thing I have to worry about, so hopefully that will lighten the load! I don’t like to blame anxiety for everything, but it really has been so bad this year. I think I am pushing myself too much. I work 40 hours a week, took care of everything for my wedding in May by myself (I’m stubborn) I have two single buns to care for, and in school I took 15 credits in the spring, 12 during the summer, and I’m taking 9 currently for fall. I am just making myself a wreck because I am so close to finishing the year with a 4.0 GPA and I just can’t make myself slow down, or my mind for that matter. My psychiatrist took me off of Xanax because he thinks that continuing it will do more harm than good (dependence). And while I agree with him there and I don’t want to have to take benzos just to calm myself down….I seriously NEED to calm down, regardless of how I do that. I am mentally, physically, and emotionally exhausted from this year!!!

Posted By BunNoob on 9/12/2017 12:56 PM
Honestly, this entire year has been so hard on me. Everyone can tell, I’m always told that I look stressed or like I am having a bad day…and I can personally tell since I’ve gained a good bit of weight this year… Once they are bonded that’s one less thing I have to worry about, so hopefully that will lighten the load! I don’t like to blame anxiety for everything, but it really has been so bad this year. I think I am pushing myself too much. I work 40 hours a week, took care of everything for my wedding in May by myself (I’m stubborn) I have two single buns to care for, and in school I took 15 credits in the spring, 12 during the summer, and I’m taking 9 currently for fall. I am just making myself a wreck because I am so close to finishing the year with a 4.0 GPA and I just can’t make myself slow down, or my mind for that matter. My psychiatrist took me off of Xanax because he thinks that continuing it will do more harm than good (dependence). And while I agree with him there and I don’t want to have to take benzos just to calm myself down….I seriously NEED to calm down, regardless of how I do that. I am mentally, physically, and emotionally exhausted from this year!!!

I empathise so much with this. I’ve had one of the most stressful years of my life too and I 100% agree that having the stress of bonding bunnies on top of other challenges just feels absolutely insane. It sounds ridiculous to other people when you say it but it really does play on your mind. Ive just got mine to the point where they are sharing their living area with no issues at all and honestly the feeling is just so amazing. It really is a weight lifted. You sound like your doing great with yours and you’ll feel so proud once you’ve done it. I’m due to start my third year of university (UK) and I have two children aged 3 and 5 and honestly getting these bunnies to bond is still one the most stressful/greatest achievements I’ve ever experienced
Your bunnies are beautiful as well by the way

Posted By Eddyw111 on 9/12/2017 1:32 PM

Posted By BunNoob on 9/12/2017 12:56 PM
Honestly, this entire year has been so hard on me. Everyone can tell, I’m always told that I look stressed or like I am having a bad day…and I can personally tell since I’ve gained a good bit of weight this year… Once they are bonded that’s one less thing I have to worry about, so hopefully that will lighten the load! I don’t like to blame anxiety for everything, but it really has been so bad this year. I think I am pushing myself too much. I work 40 hours a week, took care of everything for my wedding in May by myself (I’m stubborn) I have two single buns to care for, and in school I took 15 credits in the spring, 12 during the summer, and I’m taking 9 currently for fall. I am just making myself a wreck because I am so close to finishing the year with a 4.0 GPA and I just can’t make myself slow down, or my mind for that matter. My psychiatrist took me off of Xanax because he thinks that continuing it will do more harm than good (dependence). And while I agree with him there and I don’t want to have to take benzos just to calm myself down….I seriously NEED to calm down, regardless of how I do that. I am mentally, physically, and emotionally exhausted from this year!!!

I empathise so much with this. I’ve had one of the most stressful years of my life too and I 100% agree that having the stress of bonding bunnies on top of other challenges just feels absolutely insane. It sounds ridiculous to other people when you say it but it really does play on your mind. Ive just got mine to the point where they are sharing their living area with no issues at all and honestly the feeling is just so amazing. It really is a weight lifted. You sound like your doing great with yours and you’ll feel so proud once you’ve done it. I’m due to start my third year of university (UK) and I have two children aged 3 and 5 and honestly getting these bunnies to bond is still one the most stressful/greatest achievements I’ve ever experienced
Your bunnies are beautiful as well by the way

Thank you so much! Totally off topic, but I needed to get that off my chest. When I tell people I am bonding my rabbits they go “you’re what? ok…” and they think nothing of it. They don’t understand at all!!! They don’t know how emotionally taxing it is to see your sweet, lovey little fluffs act totally bizarre before your eyes. Or that you just have to sit there the whole time anticipating something to go wrong so that you can quickly intervene. It’s terrible (at least for me, who already has anxiety). Thankfully mine have not had any fights so far, but 2 times her mounting almost turned into a scuffle (Quincy was boxing the dustpan lmao).

You have your hands totally full! I can’t imagine having kids on top of this and school, you must be wonderwoman!!

Posted By DanaNM on 9/12/2017 1:00 PM

Posted By BunNoob on 9/12/2017 11:22 AM

Thanks for the advice, Dana! I started with doing 3 hour sessions but after two of those in one day, they just went to staying away from each other. So I did two 1 hour sessions daily for the next two days. I only have a few hours after work so I think I will try doing like 3 hours after work for the remainder of the week, and hopefully by this weekend they would be ready for a marathon type thing!

The only thing is, my family is all out of power from the storm, so my apartment is basically a shower shelter for them lol. I’m trying to get everyone to agree to coming at the same time to shower, since I only have about 4-5 hours after work before I need to get to bed. And since I have already started bonding, I don’t think taking a break from sessions is a good idea.

Oh for sure, short sessions are better than no sessions! When I’ve marathoned, you’ll see some ups and downs over the course of things… with lots of time spent just sleeping and lounging, sometimes near each other, sometimes far. Even lounging not near each other is OK, because any time spent not fighting or asserting dominance is time spent building trust.  

Once you feel confident that they aren’t going to just launch into a full-on fight with no warning (prob once you are up to at least 3 hours with no incidents), and IF you don’t care about getting a good night’s sleep… you can try having them spend the night together in the bathroom. Not sure what your layout is… but when my two were marathoning in the bathroom I blocked the door with an x-pen and cardboard (so they couldn’t see out), and “slept” on the floor in the hallway with my head right at the fence so I could hear any scuffling. Believe me, I bolted awake at even the slightest noise, especially the first night! 

But yeah, don’t feel bad for doing short sessions for now, I was just saying don’t move to semi-neutral just yet, although I’m sure it’s tempting since the bathroom is in such high demand!

hahaha I am definitely capable of shacking up on the floor when it comes to the buns. Or I could pad up the tub with comforters and pillows, I sleep curled in a ball anyway… bathroom sleepover though ?  lol

I was worried that they didn’t seem to be so affectionate toward each other after the first session, but at least they aren’t fighting! I think the only problem here is that she wants to mount. Hopefully they can sort it out with the grooming. She is nice enough to initiate grooming but when she asks he is very selective of when he will give in to her demands.

Another session yesterday. 3 hours (they did so well so I just kept it going past 1 hour).

No mounting attempts from Ophelia. But Quincy is spending a lot of his time near her bum, and she doesn’t like that. He hasn’t tried to mount, but he will go and sniff her feet or her bum while she is laying down and she jolts up and gives him a light grunt. Then they stare at each other a few seconds and go back to laying down. Spent most of the time either eating close to each other or snuggling, with occasional grooming (more from Ophelia).

Today a 2 hour session. After 1 hour I sat on the other side of a baby gate barrier to see if they would still be fine without me right there with them. Fine for almost another hour, until something suddenly turned into tumbling bunnies in the litter box. I was looking away talking to someone so I didn’t see what started it /: it took a little work to intervene (and keep my heart in my chest) but I got them separated.

Well that sucks. Luckily, they were fine to end the session squashed face to face for 10 minutes being petted and then Ophelia groomed Quincy briefly then hopped away, so I thought it a good time to end it.

At least we ended on a good note? I’m a little upset.

Do you think they might be ready for bigger space? Nothing worthy of a “fight” has happened since we started on Friday. But today they did seem to be staying away from each other more than usual. Time for an upgrade?

Oh thanks, Dana! I actually had no idea, I’ve had a litter box in every session besides the first one! But that does make sense now… I was trying to discourage peeing all over the place, and I didn’t stop to think that one would want to defend the box!

To clarify, the posts are in correct order. There was a 2 hour session and they seemed to ignore each other for the most part, so I decided to sit on a chair right outside the room and watch from over the baby gate. They have both been using the litter box together with no problems, but something must have changed when I was no longer IN there with them.

Anyway, after that 2 hour session and the litter box scramble, I let them calm down for about 2 hours and then did a short, 45 minute session right before bed. I wanted to reinforce that they were still ok with each other and not end the day with the fight being the highlight of the sessions. So that went fine, they laid near each other but not touching for about 30 minutes of this time.

Today I will leave the litter box out of sessions!

It’s possible that she tried to mount while they were both eating in the box. Ophelia is very attentive of me all the time, she seems to look at me with her head down as if she’s looking to see if she will be reprimanded. Since Quincy was uncomfortable with the mounting, she had been getting a “no” when she went near his bum, and that was enough to stop her. I’m kicking myself that I was distracted and didn’t see what actually started it.

They didn’t pull any fur out so I’m not actually sure what they were doing besides grunting and tumbling around lol. Maybe I will take things to the kitchen today, change of scenery and leave the box out of it. I would have to figure out some set up to keep her from jumping over the gate.

Yesterday 3 hours in the kitchen, not completely neutral as it is not blocked off and Ophelia is free roam. She stays away from it though because of the tile.

I moved things from the bathroom because I feel they needed more space, if she would hop over him behind the toilet he assumed she was trying to mount and would grunt at her and get defensive. Also the bathroom is literally tiny and gets extremely hot since there is not a vent in there. I thought that it was getting to a point that it may even be too hot for them to be comfortable.

No fights, some light grunting that they resolved on their own. No territorial business from Ophelia, in fact Quincy is the one being a little funky. He does a short quick lunge at her, but doesn’t follow it with a nip or anything he just shoves his face in asking for grooms. I think he is really insisting on being the dominant one, and it actually seems like Ophelia may let him. She grooms him a lot more than he does her. But I am not sure if she just isn’t mounting because of tile floor insecurity.

5 hours yesterday in the kitchen. No problems, no mounting, lots of grooming from Ophelia!

We are on hour 2 today. Trying to keep this going for just as long as we can without either being bothered. But they have been voluntarily cuddling very much today, normally I just kinda scoot them in the direction of the other. When is a good time to introduce litter box into sessions? I would start with having two in right, so they each can have their own?

Yeah I added two boxes in that I had scrubbed down with vinegar and warm water….

At the 4 hour mark in the first session of today. It led to a brawl eventually….

Separated for about 4 hours and we are currently in second session of the day, but they seem to be a little jumpy and more agressive since their sprawl. A couple of “circling” issues where I pushed them away before they could fight but they are definitely on edge about each other! Darn it!

I tried a car ride before one session in the bathroom, before we switched to the kitchen. I put sat with them in the trunk of the SUV while husband drove. I brought them in a clothes bin and Ophelia just jumped out and hopped around in the spacious trunk. Quincy looked absolutely mortified. We only have that car so it hasn’t worked out that I’ve been able to do car rides. I usually take the bus and he uses the car because my job is much closer to the apartment.

Today we are on hour 3. After 1 hour of sitting with them and all they wanted to do was snuggle, I left them in the kitchen alone and started doing some miscellaneous cleaning tasks. I have a tiny apartment so pretty much any room I am within earshot. So far things are going great today. I check on them very frequently (I don’t trust them lol) and each time I just find them snuggled together, eating together or grooming each other. Only one little squirmish so far which really wasn’t much and I pushed them apart then they approached and groomed each other. Tons of grooming today. But I still think they haven’t figured out dominance.

I think I just need to cut my sessions at 4-5 hours. I noticed that toward that time they both start to get antsy and I think that’s contributing to having some fights. Looks like I won’t be having such an easy bond after all. It’s no problem to me to take it slow though.

Today I ordered one of those puppy play pens that have the plastic and mesh walls with a top you can zip open. I’m going to do our 4-5 hour sessions daily on the weekdays for the next week and hopefully they will be ready to be set in the dining room in that pen by next weekend. That will be my “semi neutral” solution, will that work?

So yesterday went well. I wish I had been able to do a second 4 hour session, but I just did not have the time yesterday.

Can they sort out dominance without mounting? Ophelia has stopped trying and he never tries. They had grooming standoffs for a while, with both eventually giving in but Ophelia doing most of the grooming. However, yesterday he could not keep his tongue off her!! lol it seemed like every time I peeked in to check on them he was grooming her. She was grooming him often too.

But they still show some aggression. Mainly the thing that happens is if they are on opposite ends of the kitchen, and one hops quickly toward the other they both sink down to the floor and raise their tails. Then they bump heads and it ends there.

What’s up with that?! I know that they need to show no aggression, so I am hoping that they can sort all that out soon. Do you think they just don’t really trust each other yet?

I’ve been lacking in posting pics of our sessions lately

I think there’s something on my phone screen over the camera because my pics are usually blurry…or I have really unsteady hands lol. But in that last pic, I heard a rustle so I ran over to make sure no one was about to start a fight, but I just found a flopped over Quincy  He loves to flop against his girlfriend

They are pretty good with each other unless one is hopping toward them from the other side of the kitchen. Then it’s all “what are you doing?!” tail raised, cautious nonsense

So the last two days our sessions were fine, but I feel like we are at a stand still ?? Unsure how to proceed as I don’t have many options. I don’t have a friends house I can use and I don’t have family that lives close either, so I am stuck with the only two “neutral” areas in the house- kitchen and bathroom.

on 9/18 after work session, Ophelia tried to mount Quincy. He squirmed his way out of it (I was on the other side of the gate barrier trying to push her off with a broom). He still is really not going for the mounting, and they started circling afterward so I jumped in and directed them at the hay pile where they sat and ate.

9/19 yesterday after work, no mounting attempts, each snuggling and grooming, but they are still nippy with each other. I was doing the dishes and heard a little disturbance going on so I looked over and they were both hunched down facing each other. So I am not sure what’s setting this off? I THINK Quincy is nipping her when she denies him grooms. I used to have to shout when they looked like they were getting nippy or it would turn into a chase. Now I don’t say anything besides maybe calmly saying “be nice” and they don’t escalate to any fighting. But I feel like this isn’t progress?

I have one of those puppy play pens coming today from amazon. Should I set them in it in one of her rooms or are they not ready for that? I don’t mind keeping them in the kitchen if they aren’t ready. They were really snuggly and grooming for a few days in the bathroom but then got distant, then we moved to the kitchen and I’m noticing the same pattern. They still snuggled and groomed yesterday but they are also still nippy. But like I said it isn’t escalating.

Also, I should mention that the kitchen is twice the size of the bathroom. So when they were getting stagnant in the bathroom we upped the space by moving to the kitchen. but now they are stagnant again. and if I use the puppy play pen, it’s only about 3 feet in diameter, so they would have their space more than cut in half. I don’t know if that could set them off even more.

Also I haven’t tried adding litter boxes in these last few days. I think I want to get new ones. But I haven’t had the time to get to the store. They can’t go to semi-neutral until they are ok with litter boxes, right?

Thanks Dana!

It all feels like it is just staying the same, day after day! This weekend I will do the long sessions again. We are averaging 4 hours a day on weekdays. I do feel like it does in cycles of all snuggles and love to Ophelia coming over to the gate in the doorway and when Quincy goes over too things get a little nippy. I think it’s because right across the gate is the dining room which is “her room”. I’m glad that we have gotten to a point that I can see them looking like they will fight but they won’t.

I’m absolutely exhausted with work, school and spending all my free time bonding….. so I took 3 days off next week. Hopefully that will help us make some progress when I can do 5 days in a row of long sessions.

I just can’t let work find out that im taking off to sit on the kitchen floor with the bunnies hahaha

Hahaha Sarah I hope I’m never in that situation, I don’t trust the husband to look after buns the way that I do!

Q8- I have the same struggle everyday! They do lots of zoomies in the morning and I just love to watch them run and binky around.

Dface- unfortunately I live in the middle of the city, where I am smack on the corner of two of the busiest roads, and really close to campus. Lots of stray cats and dogs around too. I could make the 25 minutes drive to my sisters where she has a big, open yard. And YESSSS being stuck inside staring at them sucks!!! I need sunlight, fresh air!

Joe- I guess you might hate me if I said I only get up 1 hour before I have to clock in at work

Well…. I added litter trays today since we’ve been spending 3-4 hours together for the past few days without any fights.

They ignored them for the first two hours and just ate the hay I scattered in a corner. Then, they started using the trays. They whole session had been going fine and I was watching Netflix on my phone in the corner of the kitchen (I’m still wary about leaving them alone) and Quincy tried to mount her for the first time! She wasn’t having it. *sigh* I guess we are stuck in eternal battle for dominance

She turned and grunted at him so I went over and helped diffuse the situation. I stopped the circling that ensued and they went back to laying down together.

what an emotional roller coaster for me! They’re driving me to drink… I swear I don’t want this beer….they want me to have it….

This session sucked. About 2 1/2 hours which is shorter than usual. I don’t know what to do with them anymore. They seem to be doing just fine, then add the litter boxes and they get all up in arms. Quincy kept nipping Ophelia, to which she would just hop away and ignore. But he continually tried to mount and that turned into a circling match every time. We did start our session 2 hours later than usual. I get home late on Wednesdays. I just don’t understand what to do with these two who both clearly want to be dominant. I wish I hadn’t even gone through the trouble of this right now. It’s so discouraging that we’ve just gone backwards. I feel like I’ve wasted 4 hours of my day every day for the past two weeks because nothing is being accomplished.

yes I thought he might be dominant because she seemed to have really relaxed and just wanted to cuddle and would groom him a lot. Lately though, he’s been grooming her a lot more. I guess I am confused because I thought the one who did the most grooming was submissive and grooming the dominant one? But he nips her on her bum often or will randomly do a short lunge at her then shove his head in for grooms.  

I thought we had gotten over the mounting….. I just hate that part because I don’t want either bun to feel bothered and neither of them is having it right now. And I don’t know what to do. I feel like I have to intervene or it will lead to a fight. They would be fine to go back and cuddle with each other but then if she got up to eat he was just so interested in going over and mounting her. I just don’t know if I’m hindering them by stopping them, or effectively preventing a nasty fight from breaking out. But I HATE to see them fight. I mean really, it leaves me physically shaking for minutes afterwards. 
  
I guess I’m just feeling really overwhelmed about it all because I’m so inexperienced with it. And it is SO much easier said than done. I feel like I could give someone else sound advice on what to do but when it comes to my own situation I’m clueless how to handle it. I tried reaching out to my local shelter to ask for some tips/ideas but they are super busy still with cleanup from Hurricane Irma and they didn’t have power for over a week, so I don’t really want to bother them while they are trying to get all the bunnies situated back in the barn. 
  

A hump slump  

Well, it has been almost 2 weeks, which I guess isn’t that long in the scheme of things. They were just doing so well that I thought they may have started to sort things out by now.

I guess it’s good that they go back to cuddling and laying even after nipping/mounting attempts. That’s gotta mean something, right? At least they are comfortable with each other enough that they don’t feel like they just want to get away from each other.

So I guess here’s what I want to figure out. Should I continue with the litter boxes in the sessions and try to let them sort out dominance or should I take a step back and let them go back to no litter boxes?

I’m feeling a little better after getting some sleep. I think part of the reason that yesterday was so overwhelming is because I have a really long day on Wednesdays, so I had been gone 8am-8pm doing work and school and I was exhausted by the time I got home. But, I didn’t want to skip on a session completely so I started and it was going fine for the first two hours. I was getting cranky anyway so it’s probably best that we just ended there.

I think that they really do like to be together but they just haven’t figured out dominance. I used to think that Ophelia was more affectionate than him, but lately he’s been very attention hungry as well. I wonder if it’s because they have been introduced and now they want to be all cuddly and lovey. Quincy has been loving his pets more than usual and head butting me if I stop lol.

So ultimately I think they really do like each others company which is good. I didn’t have brand new litter trays, so maybe that is the issue. I used two that are the least used, because they are small and I quickly replaced them with larger ones. I wiped them both down with vinegar but now I’m thinking I will give them a good soak to really get their smell off.

So I took a break on Thursday and didn’t try a session. Yesterday I had them in the kitchen for about 2 1/2 hours, nothing really that noticeable going on besides some nipping. They aren’t pulling fur but it’s like Quincy is just being a jerk to Ophelia. She’ll just be eating and he’ll go over and nip her on the butt and she hops away like “ok dude” but then he does it again and then she grunts back and starts getting upset. Why is he being such a meanie!!!

Also, when he grooms her sometimes he uses his hands too? Is that normal? I know they usually wipe their own face off but he sets his paws on top of her head and tries to rub her.

Posted By sarahthegemini on 9/23/2017 5:50 AM

Posted By BunNoob on 9/23/2017 5:37 AM

So I took a break on Thursday and didn’t try a session. Yesterday I had them in the kitchen for about 2 1/2 hours, nothing really that noticeable going on besides some nipping. They aren’t pulling fur but it’s like Quincy is just being a jerk to Ophelia. She’ll just be eating and he’ll go over and nip her on the butt and she hops away like “ok dude” but then he does it again and then she grunts back and starts getting upset. Why is he being such a meanie!!!

Also, when he grooms her sometimes he uses his hands too? Is that normal? I know they usually wipe their own face off but he sets his paws on top of her head and tries to rub her.

Does it look like he’s ‘digging’ at her?

No, he looks like he’s just trying to rub her face how they do when they groom their own face. He seems like he’s being very gentle and it doesn’t bother her. I just haven’t seen other rabbits using their paws to groom another one’s face!

It really is super cute!! At first I thought he was either trying to scratch her or was getting ready to mount. But he will lick his paws and then plop them on her face! My husband says that he always thought Quincy was really smart, he taught Ophelia to toss her litter tray out of the way with her mouth, and he figured out how to pull the wood protectors off of the rubber stoppers on the baby gate. Maybe he has this new method of cleaning his friend!

So I took a break for a full day, then did only a 2 hour session the next day, and then two three hour sessions the last two days. They are still a bit nippy or edgy. They spend a lot of time cuddling and grooming, but it’s so random when they get upset. They will sit cuddled up and then if one gets up and goes to eat hay they other will follow and I will see them both sink to the ground in attack pose, and they usually get over it themselves or if I give them a “be nice” in my correcting tone of voice.

Because of their random little squabbles I don’t feel like I can leave them without supervision. I had one day last week that I did that, and I was happy we had gotten to that point but then we had issues again when the litterbox came into play.

I haven’t been prebonding still, so I am going to start switching their trays and switching them into the different rooms again. I’m wondering if maybe the lack of regular prebonding activities is what could be putting them on edge when they are together?

I’m trying to be positive y’all…. but I feel so defeated and like I suck! Friday will be 3 weeks, and we are still in the kitchen with no litter boxes yet.

I feel like we aren’t getting anywhere. But I’m sure that’s not true, because they get nippy or grunting but don’t escalate to fighting. Is it normal though?!?! I know they need to sort out dominance, so is this how they are to do it? Should it be taking this long?

It’s like Quincy is just such a little bugger right now. He always instigates. She will go over to him and when she gets close he jumps up and nips her. She usually hops away but sometimes she will stand her ground and then they both do a minor circling thing and look like they are going to attack. At that point I usually let out a loud “hey!” and they cut it out. Other times, when they are snuggled up Quincy will go to scratch his ears and since he’s so close to her she thinks he’s doing it to her. So she will jump up and grunt but that’s usually as far as it goes.

I’m thinking that she is willing to let him be dominant? Because he always instigates it and she’s usually just like “eh whatever” and hops away. But sometimes she doesn’t back down. Am I reading the signs wrong? Also, if they are nippy and doing a little “slow circling” do I stop them? I’ve heard that stopping everything can hinder them figuring it out. But I just don’t want a fight on my hands.

I tried stressing with a car ride, but the issue is that Ophelia seems totally fine and tries to just escape whatever I have put her in. Quincy shuts down completely, won’t move at all and just looks honestly terrified. I think he is super sensitive to stress. When we moved from the bathtub to the bathroom floor he just shoved himself in a corner and wouldn’t move, wouldn’t eat. Same thing when we moved to the kitchen. It seems like every time he gets stressed he just shuts down. And he’s even been getting upset with me lately because I have to pick him up to bring him to the sessions. He absolutely will not go in the carrier, so I try to coerce him into his litter box and just pick the whole box up so that he doesn’t feel like he’s being grabbed. But I don’t know if the floating feeling is worse? lol

We do 3-4 hours on average during the weekdays. It’s all I am capable of. I don’t get home from work until about 5:30ish so doing 3-4 hour sessions is very taxing of the little time that I have after work. I took the next few days off of work, so I have 4 consecutive days that I can try to do those longer, 6-8 hour sessions. Hopefully something will give.

Welp.

I think we may be on our way to sorting out dominance. They had a few times that they got nippy, no fights though, some minor circling. They spent some time cuddling but less than usual.

Husband may have done something though -.- I asked him to watch them while I went to the potty and I heard him yell “she’s humping him what do I do” …instinctively I was like $*&!! stop her! ….when I came back over he said Quincy was letting her. Of course then I was frustrated that I had him stop her and didn’t just give her a few seconds. Then after that Quincy tried to mount her a few times. She hops away from him and he kinda follows her but it’s not a “chase”

Well hopefully we can pick this up where we left off and try to sort this out. I wasn’t GLAD to see the mounting back, but deep down I was kinda because hopefully they’ll start to sort out dominance rather than just sitting there, getting nippy, and accomplishing nothing.

Oh goodness! It’s certainly an uncomfortable sight to see…. I’m hoping it won’t be a regular display around the Stevens household…. I really thought it would be her, then I was rooting for Quincy because of how he acted, but now I’m betting on Ophelia again… What an interesting turn of events!

Well Ophelia has a bossy personality but Quincy didn’t seem to, but maybe that’s because he has those adorable floppy ears!!

She started with the mounting but then hadn’t tried again, and every time he would nip/chase after her she tried to avoid him. So I thought, hell, maybe she is just gonna let him have it. And he was being a lot more adamant about demanding grooms and nipping when she came near. But she mounted and he didn’t do anything (my husband said) so maybe she will end up being dominant! I had a heard time believing she would let him anyway. She always wants everything her way!

LMAO I LOVE that you called him a punk…. that is perfect for how Quincy is acting as well! (And less explicit than what I had in mind)

Well things aren’t necessarily going as planned for the past few days. I took thurs&fri off of work, so I thought that I’d have four days I could try to sneak in longer sessions, but if I try to start in the morning they just constantly fight. In the afternoon (our normal bonding time) they are fine together. But in the morning they just go after each other! I wonder why. Maybe because it disrupts their routine. They are used to being given some pellets, salad and pets in the morning and then they’re left alone into l after work. So maybe that’s bothering them that I’m putting them together in the morning.

I’ve noticed though, that when Ophelia is scared she immediately runs to Quincys side and cuddles with him. There’s a small section of carpet where it transitions from dining room to kitchen that’s exposed by the barrier I have up. She is CONSTANTLY digging and ripping at that carpet so I’ve been going “shhhhh” when she does it, which makes her stop because she HATES that sound. So she runs over to Quincy and burys herself in him. That’s a good thing, right? She’s finding comfort in him so at least she’s got some trust in him?

Today actually went quite well! We started at 3 pm and ended at nearly 11 (10:45) … so almost a full 8 hours! They had no fights. After a few hours I decided I could sit outside the kitchen at the table, where I am still very close if anything went wrong. I was working on woodburning and looked over at them periodically. To my surprise, I found Ophelia mounting Quincy and he had no qualms about it! I did go and push her off though because she wasn’t stopping, and then she did it once more but he didn’t fight that time either. I found a tuft of his fur pulled out, but I’ve read that sometimes they do that while mounting, so is that normal or is this an issue?

Sounds strange to say, but I’m glad Quincy isn’t fighting her back. Hopefully we are on our way to figuring out dominance. I’ve pretty much come to terms with the fact that I think they will be a long bond. But today they behaved as bonded friends for a full 8 hours! They were so sweet to each other. Now I’m going to clean the poop and hay off my kitchen floor…

They are really giving me a run for my money!!!

Quincy is back to being upset about the mounting. Really dude?! I dunno, it’s like they had a great one night stand and now he’s not wanting to hook up again lmao.

But still, even with him not tolerating the mounting, I think we are still doing ok. If they aren’t eating then they are cuddled together. And they’ve been doing so great that I started my Halloween decorating yesterday and I was outside but I had the sliding glass doors open and had the husband on bunny watch and beer duty while I got to making the place spooky

So yeah, nothing new really besides lots of cuddling and grooms, and Ophelia has been doing grand, dramatic flops against him! That part is actually adorable. A big ol flop and then she nestles into him. I think Quincy is just hesitant to relinquish dominance to her. She will get impatient and nip him if she isn’t getting groomed. She will nip him 3 or 4 times and he doesn’t do anything but I clap or say “no bun” because I feel like it isn’t fair to just let her bite him.

I want to try to introduce litter boxes tonight. That has been a trigger for them so I’m hoping we are past that and can add the boxes. (and I can stop cleaning hay, poop and pee up off the floor every night).

Well 5 hours today, with litter boxes. No fights, but Ophelia was nipping Quincy a lot in the beginning. They seem to really be getting a lot more comfortable with each other. One can run from across the kitchen to the one resting and they don’t move and get defensive. They didn’t get in the boxes for the first few hours but then they were using the same one most of the time even though I had two

Yes the first few times that they both got in the same box I was armed and ready for a fight lol. Last time I tried to introduce boxes they got quite humpy and ended up having a few spats so I took them out then ended the session because it wasn’t going well and they were annoyed with each other after those fights. But overall yesterday was pretty good, minus a little nipping from Ophelia!