They are not bonded. Baby bunnies form friendships but not true bonds. You cannot bond them until Bella has been spayed and her hormones have disipated. You’re taking a big risk. Also, with all due respect – you cannot leave them in the same cage after just one good session anyway. Even if it’s love at first sight, they still need to establish dominance which means they cannot be left unsupervised. 

Putting head down isn’t necessarily submission either, it’s often a demand for grooming.

Don’t mean to be negative but…

You’ve posted previously where people have informed you of the situation with bunnies who are not spayed and neutered. You even said that your female would be ready for spaying on the first of October, this suggested that you took on board the advice you were given. So I’m not sure why you have gone ahead with this regardless. I know it’s hard and you want to get straight to having your buns together but surely none of that is worth the potential blood shed you could be witnessing soon. I know it all sounds like people on here are very extreme and dramatic but it really is that serious. I’ve had an unspayed female living side by side my neutered male for about 7 weeks and she has been very well received so far by my male ( bearing in mind this is behind bars and an 8 inch gap) and as tempting as it is I know that there is no way I could ever try an introduction yet as I know what it’s like to see bunnies at war. I 100% will not jeopardise there future just for the sake of waiting a few weeks. Trixie is in for her spay today which means waiting several more weeks until she is ready for bonding. Yes this is quite a long time to wait, I want them free roam, I want my living room pen free but living like this is so much better than risking permanently separate bunnies if they fought and held a grudge or seriously injured or dead bunnies. It’s that simple. You need to think of it as investing this time in creating a positive future for them. All the happy years they could have together and with you is worth the wait. What is a few weeks to ensure it is done correctly

Sorry to be negative but unfortunately this cant be seen as a true bond.
Like Sarah said-Baby bunnies love everyone. That rarely (if ever) lasts. She’ll grow into her hormones and she’ll want to reestablish the hierarchy

An hour together is not bonded. Especially in a neutral zone.

Also lowering head is actually the opposite of submission, its a dominance display, demanding the other rabbit to groom him.

Like eddy said you posted before about choosing to wait due to knowing the risks… I cant see why you have ignored nearly all of the advice on this forum, but please do sepearte your rabbits in case one of them gets seriously injured. If you aren’t supervising them and you’ve confined them to a cage there is a very real chance that one of your rabbits could kill the other. I amn’t being dramatic, I have known people who have returned to a dead rabbit in a hutch, and I wuld hateto hear of it happening to one of our members here

This reply has made me feel really sad. You have to understand that people are genuinely here to help and sometimes I think people forget that some of the members are very young. Please don’t feel like you should leave as that is really not the best solution. You really should use this site to help you learn and grow as it will be very valuable to you. I hope you can understand where peoples responses come from, it is from the heart and because people care so much. It is often said with more regard for the animal and not the owner but nobody wants to come across as trying to push someone out or make them feel unwanted.

Also you have to remember everybody makes mistakes. I’m a first time rabbit owner and I have had a terrible time with my rabbits (which you will see from my profile). I followed advice from websites, the pet store and vets and my pairing went really wrong. I joined binky bunny only after the fighting started with my pair. I only wish I’d have come for my knowledge from experienced owners first, it is so much more valuable and I urge you to take advantage of that. Please don’t beat yourself up about it but do the right thing. Take the help and advice and I can assure you things will be sorted eventually

If you feel you have a lot to learn, I don’t see how leaving BB will help. Nobody is yelling at you but it is frustrating when people ask for advice and then flat out ignore it especially when the consequences can be so dire. Being young is no excuse tbh. Do the right thing now. Keep them separate. Until after Bella has been spayed, her hormones have dissipated and you’ve done sufficient pre bonding.

Posted By bunnybuns on 8/08/2017 11:02 AM

Thank you for your emotional support, i just felt like everyone were “yelling” at me for doing the wrong thing, kinda does make me feel unwelcomed a lot. I will reconsider my decision.

I’m sorry about that – this community is very, very passionate about our little fluffbabies (I just adopted Sunday, haven’t even gotten them home yet – I still have to get their habitat and other gear – and I’m already passionate about my own buns!). The good news is that, though I’m no expert myself (I’m still a student of bunnies!) I think nothing irrevocable has happened yet. It seems to me that if you separate the buns and put them in individual cages that are close enough for them to see, smell and communicate with one another but not so close as to risk harm to one or both, and take care to keep them separate when they’re out of their cages, once the spaying/neutering is done and the hormones have died down, you should be able to start out for real on the bonding process and build on the foundation you’ve laid out. I strongly recommend getting in touch with your local rabbit rescue or the local House Rabbit Society chapter, both have people who are knowledgeable about bonding and will really be able to help you. Good luck and remember, everyone makes mistakes – I’m certain to make some classic boo-boos as I get accustomed to living with my furry new apartment-mates!

Yes, as Joe said – nothing serious has happened yet. Which means if you separate them now, when the time comes, bonding will hopefully go smoothly.

Posted By bunnybuns on 8/08/2017 11:48 AM
I said i feel sorry and yes, age can matter when it comes to these things. It’s not about determing whether it does or doesn’t but all i know that i am capable of understanding what have i done and making the mistake right. With all due respect – I said i want to leave BB because i just wanted to get out of the current negativity and i’m still deciding whether to stay or not. BB isn’t the only website to learn from – there are experienced vets, great sites who give proper advice and people who have bunnies for lots of years, it’s just on me to choose from whom do i want to learn information about bunnies. Yelling under quotation marks, i wanted to express what i am feeling, which was some of you being more severe than necessary, harsh replies and such. I know the consequences now more than i did before couple of days and you gotta understand that’s it not easy waiting 3 months when you’re not patient, and i gotta work on that.

I’m not a patient person either so I understand how it feels to just want to start something. Having said that, the health and wellbeing of the rabbits come first. So unfortunately whether you like it or not, you have to wait. It seems you’re willing to do that now so that’s good.

Also I know BB isn’t the only place for advice. But it is a great resource and for me personally it’s my go-to site. People aren’t going to sugar coat things tho especially if the outcome could b3 dangerous. It’s a shame you are focusing on the fact that people have been negative towards you – I don’t see it that way. We are here to look after the wellbeing of your rabbits. Sometimes that means being a little blunt because sugar coating can detract from the seriousness of the situation

I hope you stay. The advice here is invaluable.

Posted By bunnybuns on 8/08/2017 12:14 PM

Thank you, I understand that now. I promise i won’t let you all down and will take safety measurements for the wellbeing and health of the bunnies. I overthink things a lot so i probably thought that some of your advices in my head were ”harsh” cause in my mind i acted like i knew everything but asked for advices.. I don’t even know myself what was i doing and thinking as i said Feeling kinda stupid for what i’ve thought, now lol But why would the vet say that they can meet even tho she isn’t spayed? Inexperienced veterinarian? Should i look for a new one? He made me going in the wrong way to bond them two, but my impatience and excitement was a part of that too, can’t lie.

I dunno I feel like bonding rabbits is some secret underground mission that no one knows about unless you’re part of it lol. As long as your vet understands rabbits on a biological and medical level, I don’t think you need to find a new one. 

Im sorry you felt attacked’ try and understand that a lot of what is said here is literally because some of us have seen how wrong things can go, and never want anyone else to have to go through it.

Vets are often the resource for physical care. They are trained to know the ins and outs of disease and illness and injury. Their understanding of behaviour is generally very limited.
People who own rabbits have more experience with the kinda day to day aspect of caring for them, you know? So although you should 100% listen to a vet, do be sure to think about what has been said. When a vet says it’s fine, but a lot of people who own and deal with that species of animals say its not, feel free to question both sets of people!

I’m sorry you are getting mixed messages and it’s a bit overwhelming
Please do not leave bb over this.
Passionate or not members need remember or to learn to show respect to others at all times – that anyone could be the posted ( young / sick / old/ someone going through other rough situations in their lives ) and approach in a way they would like to be approached.
Points can be put across without making someone feel awful and can even be done politely – would probably be heard better.

It sounds like you are now aware now of where to from here
and don’t worry we all began somewhere – and when your vet is pushing you one way and it’s all new to you I totally understand why you felt it would be ok

In my experience I’ve learnt not to ask my vet for bonding advice – he advised same as your vet – however my vet is the most rabbit savvy in my country as far as illness and stasis goes – so I’m not changing vets but will keep it to medical things I go to him for
If your vet is rabbit savvy I don’t see a need to change vets other this , but maybe it’s best to avoid getting advice from him / her on bonding

I hope your babies are settling into their own areas again now and it sounds like no damage done

Young bunnies that aren’t yet sexually mature as a rule can meet other bunnies. They can even become very close. All that stops as soon as the young rabbit hits puberty though. The surge of hormones causes radical changes to a bunny’s behavior. Especially in girl rabbits, this can happen overnight. And this is why it’s not safe to house a young intact bun together with a desexed older bun. When rabbits fight they really fight. A human must be around to separate them if need be, or they can cause significant damage to eyes and ears and other body parts.

Bunnybubs, I’m sorry you’ve felt like you’re being yelled at. I think those who have been replying to you have the best intentions and I think they too understand now that your intentions also are genuinely good.

There are other rabbit forums and it’s of course always good to gather info from different sources, regardless of subject. I hope you’ll stay on here with us on BB as well though.

If I may add my twopence, just to say that a local so-called rabbit savvy vet told me last year to put my 2 x 6kg unbonded (but desexed) rabbits together in a big transport carrier and, I quote, “let them sort it out”…!!!!!!!!

I was HORRIFIED and was SO glad I had been on BB, or else I probably would have followed his ‘expert’ advice !! Thank goodness I didn’t.

It’s unfortunate that you feel like you should leave. I know that it can be intimidating when you first join because you think you know so much from what you’ve read, but until you truly experience rabbit care… then you realize that you honestly don’t know nearly as much as you thought. It’s very easy to get defensive, but you just have to know that these people truly do care about your rabbits, and anything they say is out of concern for your rabbit.

Not everyone has a delicate way of speaking. I am a hot-headed, impatient person. If someone comes to me for advice, I will be as kind and helpful as I can…the first time…but if my advice is blatantly ignored and this person comes back again asking for help or opinions, my tone will change very quickly. I do not have the patience to “beat a dead horse” so to speak. I think that is the exact situation going on here. I don’t think anyone intended to hurt your feelings, it’s just that you didn’t take anyone’s advice and you had put your rabbits in a situation that could become dangerous in an instant. Yes, we are just owners, and we don’t claim to know everything. But after a while you really learn a lot from your rabbits, and it can be helpful to share experiences and information with others.

Now, I have not bonded my rabbits yet because my male is not neutered. I’m a very impatient person and I just fell in love with this little guy and got him at 8 weeks. Of course, it would have been much easier on me to either get a bun already neutered or at least old enough to be, but he was just too sweet to pass up. I have kept him in my bedroom since I brought him home. My female accidentally got into the room one day and they got into a fight under my bed. Nothing serious, just about 10 seconds of chasing and fur flying around, but it was a TERRIFYNIG experience. I felt so bad, and it was such an awful feeling to think of how they must have felt. I put up two baby gates in the hall way in front of my door, a few feet apart. Do you think I want to hurdle over these gates every time I need to go to my bedroom? At 3am when I have to pee, do you think I am happy to have to maneuver around gates and watch for my rabbit, who is a good jumper? Hell no! It sucks! Do I like hearing my husband complain about the situation and the fact that I should have waited? Nope! But, I know that they are both safer this way and that makes it worth it. When I am home during the day, I stack the gates in the doorway and put their litter trays on either side of the gate. Now they see each other for several times a day, and my female has become considerably less aggressive/agitated by his presence. He still has 3 weeks until his neuter and then will need several weeks to heal after that. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with allowing them to see each other, but they should not be allowed to physically reach each other. You have to take it slow, for the sake of your rabbits.

I’m similar to BunNoob – I try to be helpful but if I feel like the rabbit’s wellbeing isn’t being taken into account, I’m not going to pussyfoot around it.

I’m also not going to sugar coat anything, especially if I feel they are mistreating their rabbit. I’m passionate about animals and I’m not going to apologise for not being super sweet and lovely to someone that doesn’t care for their animal properly. **Just to clarify, I’m not saying this is what I think about you bunnybuns, I’m just explaining what I’m like lol** 

Anyhoo! Glad to hear they are separated now, trust me the time will fly by! I had my living room split in two, it was like doing hurdles just to leave the room lol and when I look back I think how quickly it all went. 

Posted By bunnybuns on 8/08/2017 2:30 PM

Ive separated them into different cages about 2 hours ago. Will stay here on the BB forums, will be gathering knowledge as well. Its all good, as long as the bunnies are healthy and happy everything is great! Thank you for caring for my bunnies and leading me to the right path, can’t be grateful enough!

Good work!

Even some people commenting made this mistake at the start of bunny ownership – I did too. I am not sure why some of the comments had to be so harsh and so accusing when same mistake was made. Also if I remember correctly when it was pointed out to some the responses were like ” I can’t seperate all the time can I just do x ?” . It’s a learning thing at the beginning – its reaching out to a good vet – which you did – its talking to experienced rabbit owners – which you are now , and it’s changing things that you learn need changed – again which you are . People can say you won’t sugar coat – they can say they are standing up for the rabbit so it isn’t mistreated , they can say it is passion – but it’s rude, sometimes on the edge of pushing good people to leave – – which inturn means the bunnies miss out on the owners learning. There are nice ways to teach , encourage and give insight. You took advice of your trusted vet – totally understand. Unfortunately the advice was wrong but you are doing what you can now to correct it

Well, it looks like I got here… too late? LOL What I mean is, it looks like there was a bit of a misunderstanding in this thread. But it looks like things have worked themselves out. I just wanted to thank everyone for working things out in a respectful manner. I think once everyone explained themselves it was easier for the other side to see where they were coming from. And that goes for everybody!

It’s very hard to express “tone” in written format. This can sometimes lead to misunderstandings, which I can definitely see is what happened here. I think this thread offers a good reminder of that. I don’t believe anyone was intentionally trying to sound rude here. But without the benefit of tone, body language, etc. sometimes things are perceived differently when different people read/”hear” the same sentence in their head.

bunnybuns – I do hope you continue to get use out of the forum. It really is a valuable resource. As Bam pointed out though, there is nothing wrong with getting information from multiple sources. We encourage it! And vets… well, sometimes they know things and sometimes they don’t. Sometimes they are very knowledgeable about rabbit health and not so much rabbit behavior. I’m not saying to not listen to your vet’s advice. You can certainly do that. But (especially) for things like behavior and bonding, vet advice should be one of many sources taken into consideration. Not everyone is going to know everything, so bunny owners often find themselves looking at something from many different angles.

I’m glad to see this has turned out okay. But I have to point out that I find it a little bit frustrating Oakley and bostons mama that you are so quick to say that the advice that was given was rude. I think that is extremely unfair. Each person who gave advice gave it in the way they thought was appropriate and they have also taken note of the feelings and responses that came back from bunny buns and addressed this and explained why they said what they did. Regardless of the way things are said sometimes this is the way things are sometimes resolved, things sometimes need to get up in the air like that to let it out and talk through it. We don’t always like what we hear but sometimes it is what is needed. The same way in which you think there are nicer ways to give advice I think you should think about how quick you are to call somebody rude and suggest they are being nasty about it. I have been given advice that has left me feeling a bit gutted afterwards and I’m not confrontational in anyway but I am grateful to the fact that there are people who will give blunt and hard advice because sometimes that is what is necessary. I think the important thing is the sensitivity after the comment, being prepared to hear the response to the next comment and then take it from there. Like this for example, everyone has come back to the thread to ensure the situation doesn’t result in bunnybuns feeling negative from the comments.

Well since I’m being called out specifically the comments I’m referring to would be The accusatory and loaded ones about how the posters are emotional due to the animals welfare and not sugar coating when they feel that isn’t being cared for etc etc . I could screenshot the ones – quote them – that will achieve nothing – there is probably a list of about 10 here which i don’t understand why they needed to be said other to make it seem the OP is being unfair to her bunnies. The wellbeing is taken into account or vet advice would not have been Seeked. It’s comments – not the whole post , nor am I referring to the meaning or intentions behind them – I believe we all had good intentions – but the way it is worded especially in the beginning comments there are things that did not need to be said as they are accusatory and in my opinion – rude. I’m not sayhg the people are rude ( maybe that was my wording mistake- sorry if it was ) I’m meaning the comment /s rude. I can see why the OP felt attacked , I can see the OPs interpretation leading to the resolving posts where feelings were explained better.
I was not trying to offend nor was I saying it is everybody who commented. I stand by my comments above.
I’m glad the OP had the opportunity to express how it was upsetting and that the situation has been resolved. The bunnies are seperated – OP seems happy with the resolving that came about (?) , so all is well yes?

Hoorayyyy !!!! Yes, OBM, all is well !!!!

Group hug everyone !!

Lol Vienna. What would we do without you?!

Let’s keep the thread on topic of Miles and Bella, shall we?

Vienna : your comment made me actually smile lol

Jersey : sounds great

Hope to see some pictures of these buns sometime ! Love the name Mile, is he named that because he is a fast binky sprinter running a mile or??

Would love to see pictures! 

I second Sarah! Would love to see the little guys?

Also, how is it going having them separated? I know it can be a pain… but it’s necessary and the time will start flying by. Soon enough she will be recovering from her spay and you’ll be working on prebonding!

I do also have to comment with the others about veterinarians. My husband’s aunt is a vet (not for rabbits) but she has talked to me about the fact that while they know so much of the medicine and anatomical aspects of animals, but they just can’t really know everything about behavior, especially if they don’t own these animals. She assumed I could just put my rabbits together and they would be friends, makes sense right? Unfortunately, many many people think that they are just like any other pets. That since they live in groups in the wild they are ultimately accepting of any other member of their species…but this just isn’t true. You have a single rabbit and he has not interacted with his species since he was with his birth mother. When you introduce another rabbit to him in his territory, he’s going to be threatened, and that’s where the aggression comes from. It’s not that rabbits are just mean, they just have to learn how to interact with their own, they have to LEARN that they CAN coexist with the other and that is the bonding process.

If you have any further questions about prebonding techniques/ bonding sessions, please ask! Don’t be discouraged! This is a very stressful process for you and your rabbits, and it can be quite dangerous if something goes awry.

I too would love pictures ?
There is an evolutionary “reason” why rabbits are so territorial, and it’s because they put lots of time and energy in constructing their warren. From what I’ve read, the females do most of the digging, so it makes sense the females often are more territorial (=cage aggressive) than males. If (wild) guinea pigs encounter intruders or shortage of food, they just up and leave and settle someplace else, they are nomads. But rabbits have so much invested in their home and depend on their nearby territory for for food, they can’t just move away. So they defend their space, and they do so quite fiercely.

Posted By bam on 8/09/2017 8:15 AM

I too would love pictures ?
There is an evolutionary “reason” why rabbits are so territorial, and it’s because they put lots of time and energy in constructing their warren. From what I’ve read, the females do most of the digging, so it makes sense the females often are more territorial (=cage aggressive) than males. If (wild) guinea pigs encounter intruders or shortage of food, they just up and leave and settle someplace else, they are nomads. But rabbits have so much invested in their home and depend on their nearby territory for for food, they can’t just move away. So they defend their space, and they do so quite fiercely.

Never knew that about guinea pigs! 

Posted By bam on 8/09/2017 8:15 AM

I too would love pictures ?
There is an evolutionary “reason” why rabbits are so territorial, and it’s because they put lots of time and energy in constructing their warren. From what I’ve read, the females do most of the digging, so it makes sense the females often are more territorial (=cage aggressive) than males. If (wild) guinea pigs encounter intruders or shortage of food, they just up and leave and settle someplace else, they are nomads. But rabbits have so much invested in their home and depend on their nearby territory for for food, they can’t just move away. So they defend their space, and they do so quite fiercely.

I see that I’ll have to look up how North American wild rabbits handle this, since it’s my understanding they don’t dig, apart from their nests. Domestic rabbits are (as we all know! &nbsp descended from the European wild rabbit – which, I think, also explains why domestic rabbits don’t do well in hot temperatures, because their wild ancestors evolved in a much cooler environment; the eastern cottontail is much more used, I believe, to these hot American summers – so I see how they’d get as territorial about their habitats as their wild cousins.

I’ve read – I don’t remember whether here or elsewhere – that some people recommend that when you bring in bunnies to their new home, you should set it up with everything necessary, put the bun(s) in, and for the next day or two don’t importune them with pets and such (but do acknowledge them and talk to them) while they get settled in. Is that a valid strategy?

NY bunnies don’t move because their warrens are rent controlled.

Posted By RabbitPam on 8/09/2017 12:39 PM

NY bunnies don’t move because their warrens are rent controlled.

Thank you, thank you, she’ll be here all week. Don’t forget to tip your waiter.

LOL!!!!!

No worries and what a cool way to come up with his name!
As for Bella missing the cuddling , a plush toy would be good for her – many reasons why , one is comfort from being apart from Mile right now, two it will help with prebonding later as you can give them one each and swap them every few days so they have the others smell , it also gives Bella something to groom if she chooses

My boys ( not bonded and won’t be as they fight viciously on bonding attempts ) have a soft toy each – they love them

Just nothing too fluffy that they can pull the fur out of easy when grooming , cut the tag off . And choose on stitches eyes and nose -without buttons.

If they chew them you will have to remove them so keep an eye on it and check it regularly for any tears
Mine have never chewed theirs

It’s easy to machine wash a teddy though pop it in a pillowcase and throw it in the machine