Litterbox training only one bunny of bonded pair

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BINKYBUNNY FORUMS

This topic has 12sd replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 8 years, 10 months ago by vanessa.

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- 05/09/2017 at 1:40 PM
  Mari
  Participant
  26 posts
  I have a bonded pair, a male and female named Moo and Toki, and they have an entire room to themselves. Moo uses the litterbox just fine but Toki doesn’t and she poops and pees outside of the litterbox. I already have a couple of reasons of why this is happening, but I am also having trouble finding a solution.
  
  First, Toki is not spayed because she is only 1.1 pounds. She’s already fully grown and turning 2 years old this month. I’m really not sure how to fix this issue as I’ve already spoken to a few rabbit savvy vets and they’re concerned about how tiny she is. Will she have a shorter life span and more likely get a reproductive cancer if she is unable to be spayed? ): Has anyone had a bun this small spayed before?
  
  Second, the litter box they use is big for her because Moo is a big guy. I feel like she doesn’t like to poop/pee in the larger litter box because it is such a hassle for her to get into. She has to make quite a leap to get into it, even on the shorter side. I tried putting a tiny ramp for her and when that didn’t work out, I added a second small litter box for her, but she will not use the litterbox. She always wants to use the litterbox Moo uses. I even put treats that she goes crazy for in the smaller one and she refuses to go in there.
  
  I tried putting them in an x pen in the room to begin litterbox training her, and I didn’t want to separate them. Moo threw a tantrum the entire time, chewing and pulling at the fence, kicking everything out of the litterbox. Toki kind of just sat in the litterbox the whole time, occasionally hopping out, but she didn’t poop or pee either, not outside and not inside the box. Does any one have any advice? Please help!
- 05/09/2017 at 2:20 PM
  vanessa
  Participant
  2212 posts
  Try adding more litter boxes – in the corners. Does she go in one spot or all over the place? Is there anyway you can cut the openin geven lower for her? How about the really low sided puppy training boxes? How many inches/cm high is the lowest side? The lowest one I have is about 1 inch.
  How long have Moo and Toki been together?
- 05/09/2017 at 2:22 PM
  vanessa
  Participant
  2212 posts
  There is a higher chance of her getting uterine. 80% or rabbits will get uterine cancer by age 5. Rabbits that are used for breeding have a lower chance.
- 05/09/2017 at 2:35 PM
  vanessa
  Participant
  2212 posts
  I just looked through your other posts. Is Toki the one who had the head tilt? And the Pasteurella? If so… I would say she should be perfectly capable of using the litterbox. It’ snot two foot tall right? She should be able to get in. She I too young to have arthritis. Did you ever put her on panacur? I’d get her on panacur for 28 days – incase it is EC. Not using the litter box is a sign of EC, although it could be numerous other things too. But with the history of head tile an ear infection, I’d be suspicious of EC. How is her gait? Does she still sway? Does she hobble? How are her back legs?
- 05/09/2017 at 3:41 PM
  Mari
  Participant
  26 posts
  Hi Vanessa,
  
  She poops and pees all over, pretty much where she hops she will use the bathroom. The shortest side of the litter box is i think 5.75 inches, but its taller than her when she’s on all fours. I’ve tried finding a low sided litter box, but they all were still pretty high. Do you think you could maybe link me to a website that has a low one or tell me where you got yours? I haven’t had any luck finding one that low. Moo and Toki have been together almost a year now and he’s neutered.
  
  Toki is the one who had the head tilt. The vets never really confirmed she had pasteurella, I took her to two different vets, one because of her runny nose and the second because her sudden head tilt and she still had a runny nose. Both times she was prescribed with Baytril and the second time, her runny nose diminished greatly and her head tilt is no longer as severe as it was in the post. She still has a slight head tilt though, but has been perfectly normal. I read a few times that some rabbits end up with a slight head tilt for the rest of their lives after recovering. I never did get her panacur because the vet said that it was best to try one thing at a time, and I guess when she recovered from the Baytril, I didn’t think it was necessary. Is panacur something I have to get from the vet? She hops around fine, doesn’t hobble, moves around like a normal bunny. She doesn’t sway anymore, but she always did have a very subtle sway, its almost unnoticeable, since I first got her. I was never concerned about it because I heard that this is called “scanning” which is something most rabbits with red eyes do due to poor sight? When she first developed her severe head tilt, her swaying would be moving her head all the way to the left until it almost touched her butt then she would move back to normal and do it all over again.
- 05/09/2017 at 4:54 PM
  vanessa
  Participant
  2212 posts
  Hmmm…. I’d cut the litter box all the way down to one inch. You can get panacur over the counter – the ingredient is called fenbendazole. Medirabbit has the dose. I’d be concerned that she poops/pees everywhere. One of my bunnies poops in her box and also infront of it – but not everywhere, and doesn’t pee outside of it. I can overlook that. But to poop/pee wherever she is – is not normal. Bunnies naturaly want to contain their mess. They would naturally pick a spot and use that spot. I’d take her back to the vet, or get a second opinion. I don’t like that your vet wanted the one-thing-at-a-time approach. Baytril, metacam, and panacur are typically prescribed together – for head tilt, sometimes along with meclizine. If it is indeed EC, it is better to treat for it even though you can’t prove it. Because if you dont, and it is indeed it, the results coudl be very damaging. The damage done by EC is tyically ireversable. Her peeing everywhere codl be nerve damage, that the brain doesnt’ get the signal from the bladder/bowels. It could also be a simple UTI. Or perhaps = she doesnt’ like the 6″ high litter box. And – perhaps it is because she isn’t spayed. A sppayed rabbit is always easier to litter train than an intact rabbit. So she really has a lot of potential factors against her. If spaying is out of the question due to her size, I’d try to rule out the litter box height, a possible UTI, and try fenbendazole. But if the peeing/pooping is from EC, it probably won’t get better. If it is from a UTI or litter box preference, it will get better. If it is from not being spayed, it may or may not get better, as long as the health/litter box peferences are sorted out.
- 05/09/2017 at 5:50 PM
  tobyluv
  Participant
  3312 posts
  Almost 6″ high for a low side on a litter box sounds very high. One of my rabbits is large, a New Zealand, and her litter boxes aren’t that tall.
  
  Here is one that is only 2″ high on the low end. It is made for ferrets, but if you read the reviews, several people with rabbits use it and like it. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=6067+15323+17535&pcatid=17535
  
  Unless Moo is very large, he should be able to use that litter box. It measures 12″ by 14″
  
  I have seen others in pet stores or online that have lower ends than yours, and some that are only 4″ high all over.
  
  It can be difficult to litter box train a rabbit who isn’t spayed or neutered, so even if you can find a litter box with a low end that they both can use, you still might not have success with Toki. I know Guinea pigs that have been spayed and neutered, and they would be about the size of Toki. I’m surprised that you were able to bond her with Moo since she isn’t spayed. I can see where you would be hesitant to spay her due to her size and medical history, but maybe you can speak with a vet that has spayed very small rabbits or Guinea pigs and get their opinion.
- 05/09/2017 at 6:43 PM
  Mari
  Participant
  26 posts
  Vanessa, thank you for all the information and advice. Is the over the counter panacur the one for horses? I looked up panacur for rabbits but mainly saw this one. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=16120&cmpid=06cseYY&7000000015378707170000002127849758700002184335387p18287611174
  
  Tobyluv, thank you! I just ordered a dog one that was larger in space, but the low side is about 2 inches. I got their current litter box because it was large in width and I just happened to see it while I was at the store. I didn’t have any luck finding a larger one with a lower height. They both jump in to the litter box at the same time and love being in it together so I felt they were too squished in their previous one haha. Sometimes I would get scared that Moo might jump on her. They actually got along instantly when she came home with me and followed him everywhere. I did notice that she tried to mount his head a couple of times recently, but she hasn’t done it since. She’s never been aggressive towards him or anyone. Also I never knew guinea pigs could be fixed so thank you for that information. I’ll try to look for other rabbit savvy/exotic vets further out of my area.
- 05/09/2017 at 7:48 PM
  vanessa
  Participant
  2212 posts
  Thats the one. Its also sold in powder form as a dog dewormer at petco and petsmart. R u in the usa? Try the large mixing tubd ftom home depot or lowes. $7 and they r about 28″x18″, 6 or 7 inches tall, but you can cut then down. Thats what i did for lancelot when he could no longer hop in. Ill send u a link when im on my laptop. Mobile phones r a pain…
- 05/09/2017 at 7:59 PM
  vanessa
  Participant
  2212 posts
  http://m.homedepot.com/p/Medium-Mixing-Tub-26100/300488545
  Figured it out… The mexium tub is 28x20x6 and $5.99.
- 05/09/2017 at 8:08 PM
  vanessa
  Participant
  2212 posts
  have u asked about an abdominal spay? Oakley & bosyond mamms is having an abdominal neutet on oakley, also a small bunny.
- 05/09/2017 at 8:39 PM
  Mari
  Participant
  26 posts
  I am in the USA. I’ve never heard of abdominal spay, but I will bring that up when take her to the vet this week! Thank you for all your help.
- 05/09/2017 at 9:30 PM
  vanessa
  Participant
  2212 posts
  I hadn’t heard of it either. Id research it – you might still not find anyone willing to do it on such a small rabbit, and you might also decide that it is too risky. I did read that it is the preferred surgical procedure for small animals. Chat with Oakly/Boston’s mom on the forum.
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