Do you have any long socks that could be balled up? Or maybe some slippers you could sacrifice? Lol. Orrr how about a rolled up scarf?

No worries Hope they work! I’m tempted to give my bunnies some balled up socks now just to see how they’d react lol!

When Smudge had Ec we gave him a large fabric carrier and rolled up blankets on all the sides so that he could lean as much as he wanted. Most of his area we blanketed though as mine rolled a lot with his ec. Think Sarah covered your answer!

I think you are doing everything that I would. My lop has the same thing. EC, and he rests with hsi head on objects. I roll up a towel for him on occasion, but his favorite are his two stufies, since he is already “bonded” with them. He sleeps with is head rested on them, and grooms them. He also sleeps with his head draped over his pal, Guinivere. While he was imobile and supported in a donut, I draped towels over the edge of his litter box. He used to sleep with his head in his food bowl. Now he prefers to use his stuffies. It is terribly cute. The other night his head was sliding off the stuffy, so I held his head and positioned it where it wouldn’t slide of. He just sat there and let me rearrange him. It is cute and sad at the same time. I have pics posted in the March pics forum. The stuffoe he is on there is quite low. That one works best for him when he flatens out his whole body. If he wants to “meatloaf”, he has a taller stuffy that works better. I also pack his stuffy in his carrier when he goes to the vet. Always have to keep him comfy 🙂

What about a child sized neck rest – the kind people bring on airplanes?

Posted By Oakley’s mama on 3/07/2017 11:32 PM
Vanessa I’m still learning about EC so I have some qs if you don’t mind?
It sounds like yours has had it a long time? Does it reflare ? Or is it the aftermath of it ( left side effects) that your one has ?
My boy is on a 6 week course of treatment and the vet said he may improve completely or he may have the current issues he has – forever – but that the ec will no longer be active ( my understanding is that a lot of rabbits have ec losing dormant but some it can become active like my guy – and after treatment it is dormant again ? Is that right ?)

Hope you don’t mind if I answer a few . All rabbits have ec, like you said it lays dormant in most. Your bun will always be ec positive, it won’t be dormant like most are (Not sure on this but that’s my belief from personal experience!). I found that my bun flared up with stress, vet visits were a nightmare and he had to be in a bunny burrito so he wouldn’t roll. Regarding improvements, it gets better most of the time, some have a constant tilt afterward and some can correct themselves.

I do hope your bun glides through this with ease. Ec buns are my soft spot

My soft spot too. My first EC bun was euthanized. They don’t all get better. And perhaps he would have gotten better if I had held out, but he was in such poor condition, I felt it the best thing to put him to sleep. I have done much more reading and learned a lot more since then. Not necessarily all bunnies – but about 80% have the parasite. It does not cause problems inmost of those 80%. (Some reports say 50%, but the concurrence is – most bunnies). When it does cause a problem, just like your vet said – it might get better, might not. There is no known cure. The symptoms might go away completely, or not. We can’t predict the degree of recovery. We know that fenbendazole/albendazole for 28 days are the only scientifically tested drugs for EC, (I may be missing some of the bendazoles in this statement), which is why it is most commonly prescribed. We know that fenbendazole works better with the potential for red cell toxicity in long term use. No short term use has proven to be toxic. Albendazole is less effective, without the same long term side effects. It does flare up. Lancelot has had 2 flares since first getting sick in June/July last year. He does have residual problems. He is still weak, he does the diagonal head drop that you are talking about, Can’t hold himself up in a firm position like my other buns can, is blind from the eye involvement, (he was deaf when I adopted him), has weak hind limbs so his mobility is limited, and he is incontinent. That’s the hardest to deal with. I have to express his bladder to keep the UTIs at bay. Not as easy as it sounds. Pees and poops everywhere. So he has multiple leakproof barriers on the floor of his bunny room. I change the top layer twice a day, and the middle layer every weekend. He doesn’t react when he pees – he sits in it and gets scald on his feet. His weakness has improved to where he can assume the correct posture, and not pee on his legs, most of the time. He still gets butt/feet baths every weekend, and I clean his scent glands at the same time. I have to watch him carefully – if he starts getting dizzy, he goes back on meds. At the moment his appetite is fantastic, and since I started concentrating on his whole well-being instead of focusing on the EC, he is more energetic. Still weak, but he shows great enthusiasm when I come into the room. This might be bad to say, but he is my Stevie-Wonder little bunny… swaying and bee-bopping to find me by scent when I’m in the room. Because he is incontinent, his head rests have to be something that won’t get peed on. A rolled up towel will get tossed around and peed on. I like the stuffed sock idea. Because it is difficult to keep his weight up, he has a piece of fleece veterinary bedding to rest on. He loves it. I change it out every other day. Don’t believe your vet that the treatment will kill the EC. That has never been proven. The parasite will go “dormant” for a while, but there will always be the chance of a flare-up. Can be caused by stress, and other triggers that we aren’t aware of. I have read various articles on prevention of flare-ups, or reduction of flare-ups. The standard advice is 9 days of fenbendazole every 6 months. There is an article by Barbies Bunnies about using ivermectin. I give him 2 doses separated by 10 days with each fenbendazole course. Dana Kremples doesn’t see the benefit of ivermectin. She recommends Fenbendazole for 3-5 days, every month. That’s for bunnies who have had active EC. For Guin, his bonded pal, I give her fenbendazole twice a year for 9 days each. In the other half of the bedroom are Avalon and Morgana. I don’t treat them. I’ve been reading up about the use of ponazuril, and it also has conflicting reports. I wish we had more scientific trials with these other drugs so we would have more information to base our decisions. Instead – there are articles by various breeders/vets/individuals who have tried them on their own.
His current “wholeness” care includes myristol for his joints, 2 of each oxbow natural science supplement daily (I buy the ingredients separately and make bunny cookies that have all the oxbow ingredients in 1 cookie, and another cookie with myristol that he won’t eat on it’s own. He gets Sherwood digestive support tabs for the vitamin B supplement, and I use critical care/Sherwood SAR in his hay cookies for his belly. I add benebac to his water once a month, or whenever he gets mushy cecotropes. No fruit treats, only to hide medicine. Although I can get a syringe of meds into his mouth pretty quickly, I prefer to give it to him over banana or strawberry, to limit the stress. He hasn’t eaten long strand hay since June last year, another reason I bake hay cookies with ground up compressed hay cubes and critical care powder. He gets his teeth filed a couple times a year since he stopped eating hay. I’ve started adding ACV to his drinking water, but it takes a bit of apple juice to convince him to drink it. The thing with EC is that you can only truly rely on the rabbit’s immune system to fight it. So that’s why I’m focusing on whole well-being. If he can go 4 months without a flare-up, then he has beaten his history.

Because of the damage the parasite can do, and the damage from the granulomas which are the body’s own response to inflammation, the sooner you catch a flare, the better the recovery. I am a strong believer in early and aggressive treatment. I’v read so many sad stories of treatment too little too late. But I’m also seeing the value in whole-being wellness.

My first Ec bun was euthanized

Smudge was what I call my ‘soul bunny’ and unfortunately after trying to battle ec for a month he started to give in and he too was let go My condolences for your loss, it’s so hard when sometimes there’s nothing you can do.

Thanks Limit. I’m sorry for Smudge too.

I think the chances depend on your bunny and environment. Not much info on why ec can flare up… maybe it’s the luck of the draw. Sounds like your bun is coping okay though, is this your gorgeous new bun? (Can’t remember if you mentioned it on that post)

I agree with Limit. We don’t knoe why it flares up. Stress is always listed as a trigger, but I can’t pinpoint anything stressful that would have caused Lancelot’s flareup. Which is why I try to improve his overall wellness, so hopefully his immune system can handle it better the next time. Perhaps the stress of bonding caused his first flareup. Not really sure. But on the otherhand, being very sick and surendered to a shelter and then adopted – must have been stressful too, but after a few weeks with me, he was happy, made buzzing sounds while he circled my feet, always ran up to me when I came into his room, and was otherwise very laid back. So I don’t know why he got sick from EC. And I don’t know why he had flareups. There is no way to predict. That’s why you need to know all the possible signs. Every rabbit doesn’t show the same signs, in the same order, or even the same signs for the next flareup. You’re familiar with the diagonal. Here’s a list of symptoms from BarbiBrownsBunnies, a breeder, but has had some experience with EC. “The common symptoms include, but are not limited to, the following:

Tilted head
Walking in circles
Nystygmus (darting eye)
Rolling (in later stages)
Paralysis of the hind quarter
Early symptoms frequently overlooked are:
Lack of movement around the cage – huddling in corner
Loss of appetite
Darting eye (nystygmus)
Weepy eye
Lying close to the floor with head down
Weight loss
Dehydration
Weaving from side to side
Staggering gait
Stargazing ( starring up at nothing)”
https://barbibrownsbunnies.com/wryneck/

Here are a few other articles I found educaitonal.

http://feelingkeep.com/article/encephalitozoon-cuniculi-in-rabbits
I can’t say much about the credibility of this website, and the English translation is not good, but I think the explanation is very good.

http://www.rabbit.org/health/tilt.html
This one is obviousely credible, and also has some good explanations.

I completely agree with those head movements. Actual head tilt is very exaggerated. Lancelot never had actual head tilt. He had and still sometimes does have, what you are describing. To the tee. Sitting up, head slowly nods off down and diagonally, not just strait down. Sometimes his whole front quarter including shoulders slide down diagonally. That’s when I prop him up with stuffies and start the meds. It is cute – but definitely a sign. While I’v read of it in a list of symptoms, I haven’t read of a biological explanation. Maybe it is just general weakness and lack of nerve coordination, since the motor effects of EC are due to nerve damage to the CNS.

When I see the darting eyes, I know I’ve waited too long. Ideally you want to start meds before it gets to that point. Each relapse means more CNS damage. Another thing I’m trying, is GLA. I read a study of (Gamma Linolenic Acid found in Borage Oil) GLA used to reverse damage done to the cornea of rabbits. I put it in his medicated hay cookies. I’ll give it 3 more months and then decide how much of a difference I see. I’m hoping that some of the CNS damage can heal, and he could one day realize that he needs to pee, instead of it just coming out once the bladder is over-full. I didn’t know this about GLA when I had started planting borage for them to eat. They like the leaves, and it is on the safe list for bunnies. The oil is found in borage and primrose – primrose is bad for bunnies. But I don’t now if it will work.

Mental fog and lack of movement around the cage/living space is an interesting sign. It’s not something I would have associated with EC, but looking back, I can see periods of mental fog/lack of movement before noticing that it’s time to start meds. He would sit with his back to the world, and not show interest in anything. He ignored his pal, ignored me, ate his food when he happened to get around to it, just didn’t look alert or happy.

It’s one of those situations where you have to be very observant and notice everything – but at the same time, I don’t want to be blowing anything out of proportion and overmedicating.

Basically, the parasite injects itself into a cell, multiplies, the cell ruptures, and the spores are set free. Spores are shed via urine. I’ve read credible peer-reviewed literature that states it is spread via ingestion. So bonded pals have the greatest risk. The litter box is a source of infection. I have read that spores can be inhaled, but I haven’t seen this in a peer reviewed article, so I don’t know how true it is. In order for it to be spread via inhalation, the urine would have to dry, so the spores can become airborne. So frequent cleaning of the litter box could reduce this risk, if it is indeed true. I’ve also read that spores can be shed via feces and respiratory secretions. Wash your hands after you handle your bunny, since he visits his litter-box. I would bleach the litter box, bleach anything that is non-porous, and steam-clean the carpets. Bleach, 70% alcohol, or 1% hydrogen peroxide, are all effective against EC as a sterilizing agent. If you have carpets, you could steam clean them. Since spores are shed intermittently and possibly throughout the life of the rabbit, you would want to keep the area consistently clean. In fact – all surfaces that you walk on, could be contaminated. I read that only severely immune compromised people, such as HIV/AIDS patients, are at risk of EC. Although I have read that it could be deadly in these cases, I have also read that there has been NO known case of EC being transmitted to a human from a rabbit. There are various types of Encephalitozoon parasites, and any studies of such a disease in humans, are not related to EC in rabbits. It is still prudent to be cautious. These links are from a Canadian university.

http://www.wormsandgermsblog.com/2010/04/articles/animals/other-animals/eliminating-e-cuniculi-in-the-household/

http://www.wormsandgermsblog.com/2008/12/articles/diseases/other-diseases/neurological-bunnies-encephalitozoon-cuniculi/

Oakly “could” breath it in. He could also already have it – you don’t know unless you have him tested. Bunnies can get EC from their mothers via the placenta, so some are even born with it.

Just wanted to ask how the little lads doing? Hope all is well and Vanessa I sat down with a tea and read through your posts thoroughly, so interesting to learn more about this

What sort of testing is the vet doing? My vet never did any kind of testing – since it is almost impossible to prove that EC is the cause of the symptoms. The serum test will prove whether the rabbit has been exposed to EC, but since so many rabbits have been exposed (50-80%), that still doesn’t prove anything. My vet doesn’t want to “pigeon hole” this as EC. A second vet I took Lancelot to didn’t say one way or another, but treated it as if it was EC. That’s the general concensus. Treat it as if it were EC, since it is about impossible to prove. A sure-fire way to prove EC, would be a brain tissue biopsy on a deceased rabbit. This will show lesions in the brain, which proves an active EC infection. But on a live bunny – a positive EC test doesn’t mean much. Some vets use high and low titers to check treatment eficiency. If the EC count is high and fenbendazole brings it down at the next test, then i is consiered strong proof. But even having high titer counts – still isn’t proof that EC caused the symptoms. I read a few other peer reviewed articles that talked about a study of 118 bunnies with wry neck and opther EC symptoms. Amny things could cause EC symptoms – not just EC. For example, if wry neck were the main symptom, it could be possible that a bacterial infection caused the wry neck and inner ear disturbance, with or without EC. The 118 bunnies had a variety of other health problems that coudl have caused their symptoms, and only a handfull tested positive for high EC titer counts. So what I’m saying is – don’t get hung up on whether it is EC or not. I would treat it as if it were EC regardless. 28 days of fenbendazole won’t hurt yoru bunny. How many days is he into the treatment? Fenbendazole is typically accompanied by antibiotics and antiinflamatories, so even if it isn’t EC, if it is just a bacterial infection, the antibiotic will take care of it. But if you leave out the fenbendazole because you are looking for positive proof of EC, you could be putting your bunny at risk, and you won’t find that positive proof. It is widely advised that if the symptoms are suspicious, treat it as EC while being open to the possibility that it could still be something else. But don’t leave out the EC treatment. The fact that so many bunnies have been exposed to EC, means you should still be careful about handwashing, litter box changing, room cleaning, etc. (Organ recipients and cancer patients are also on the list of severely immunocomprimised – didn’t want to make it sound like I thought you had HIV!)

One of those articles talks about brain vs ear involvement, and the direction of the eye movement tells where the infection is. Lancelots is in his brain. Another article I read talks about the vestibular nature of the symptoms. If the neurological symptoms go away and never come back, AND there is a low or no titer test, then I could accept it is not EC. Untill then – I would rather say – it could be EC, it could be something else, I’m going to treat for EC and cover the something else, but if I don’t insist on treating for EC, I put my rabbit at severe risk.

Your original quesiton – I have read that red-eyed rabbits scan. But they should still be able to hold their head up with out nodding. It could still be just a vestibular infection that is not EC related. If he necer has any other EC symptoms after thsi clears up, I could agree that it is not EC.

What other symptoms does he have or has he had?

With no other symptoms, a light antibiotic like SMZ is typically prescribed along with the panacur. Baytril and chloramphenicol are reserved for worse (baytril), and severe (chloramphenicol) cases. It’s good that there are no other symptoms. I have heard it called a “nod”, but I really do know exactly the head movement you are talking about. I’m glad you were able to get the bunny and get him to a vet. I used to do that with guineapigs – I’d buy the sickest one from the pet shop so I could care for it. Does he show any weakness or hind leg involvement? I would continue the course and reevaluate after 28 days. Perhaps your vet didn’t prescribe antibiotics or antiinflamatories because of the lack of multiple symptoms. I still think they are all 3 important and all have an effect on EC. The antiinflammatory (metacam) helps with the body’s reaction to the EC cellular damage. When the spores have shed from the ruptured cells, the body creates granulomas in response to the cellular injury. While this helps to heal, the granuloms also aggrevate the damage. So controlling inflamation, helps limit the CNS damage. EC shows slow response to fenbendazole, and you do need the full 28 days to assess the improvement. I’m glad to hear he doesn’t have multiple symptoms. That’s encouraging. If it is EC, you have probably caught it early before too much damage is done, and the recovery will be much better, with way fewer lingering effects.

Wow! 5-6 weeks is too young to leave his mother. He should be with her till 8 weeks. Make sure he is on unlimited pellets and hay. Young bunnies are typically super active. the cloudy eye and tiredness are relevant. He could be scratching his ear because of an inner/middle ear imbalance that doesn’t feel right to him. It could also be mites or wax, but if your vet didn’t see anything obvious, then it might be inner ear, which is relevant. The cloudy eye could be caused by a number of things – including cataracts from EC. Which is another reason why EC bunnies scan – they can’t see through the cataracts so they are moving their head around to collect more visual information and see around the cataracts. I’m not sure what the redness would be about, unless there is an infection somewhere around the eye. All together – I would ask the vet for SMZ or baytril, and Metacam. SMZ is easiest on the belly, but baytril has a better effect on EC. However, I’d have to read up some more about antibiotic appropriateness and safety for a 8-week old bunny. The tiredness is typical of EC. They tend to rest when not eating. It’s part of the mental fog. They are either alert and eating/drinking, or they are resting and not moving around a whole lot. For such a young bunny, he probably got infected from his mother before he was born. It’s good that there is no hind leg or urinary involvement. That makes his care a whole lot easier.

By the way, Lancelot’s blindness is caused by his cloudy eyes. Cataracts. That’s why I say he sways like Stevie Wonder while frantically moving around the room trying to find me.

Good thing he found you 🙂

You are doing a good job with the pellets and hay. I’d keep adding more pellets slowly just like you are doing. It probably is safe to go unlimited, but considering his dietary history and sensitive belly, I might stick with the slow approach. I’d probalby add a tablespoon more a day.

I’d agree with that. The irritated eye doesn;t sound related to the ear or possible parasite. But pine shavings would do it.