It is in the hands of the vet. Make sure the vet is extremely experienced and ask lots of questions. There’s nothing you can really do to change.

In fact i had two rabbits who never had the chance to get spayed. They lived a good 8-9 years. They died shortly(2 months) after another. One was because of neurological disease (inevietiable), the other one was unknown, but best guess with uterine or bladder problems.

Though they never get to bond, both had extremely good litter habit. One of them didn’t even need my supervision at all when free roaming. They were aggressive to each other, but other wise pretty ‘normal’ on their own.. though that’s opinionated. I always refer them as ladylike compared to my current rabbit(spayed), who is just a crazy youngster.

Don’t let spaying be the sole factor that determines your rabbits’ life.

I don’t mean to question things but I’m wondering how a breathing tube becomes partially blocked with food. If it’s going into her lungs, it shouldn’t have a chance to get any food in it. I’m very sorry it turned out that way though. Tough to hear that she is allergic to anesthetic as well.

Despite the risk, given her behaviour I would be opting to give it another go as you are. Given how hormonal she is her life is probably quite stressful too. My best suggestion, since it sounds like her hormones are causing all sorts of havoc in your house is to find the best rabbit vet you can, no matter the cost, do as much research on them as possible. Ask them point blank about how many rabbits they see, how many they desex and what their success rate is like. 1 in 25 is a very low figure and I imagine is pulled down by a lot of non rabbit-savvy vets. Make them aware of her anesthetic issue because I’m sure they have ways of dealing with it. It’s possible that they may be able to use a different type of anesthetic, which Autumn may not be allergic too. These are all things that you can discuss with your vet.

How rabbit savvy is the vet that performed the first spay attempt?

I’ve been a long-time member here on BB, 8 years or so, and I’m going to have to argue with those 1 in 25 statistics. Members have their buns spayed/neutered all the time and I’ve only heard of a handful of bunnies that passed away during surgery.

I can certainly understand your trepidation. My advice is to find a vet that is very experienced with rabbits and do pre-anaesthetic bloodwork to make sure she is up for the procedure. I always have it done before my buns go under. It provides more peace of mind for me as well.

I’m really sorry you’re going through this. I recently got my baby spayed, a week ago today, and I was so nervous pre-op and cried tears of joy when her doctor (vet) called me and told me she was awake and moving. Harlow went a few days without eating and had to be syringe fed after, but the last two days she has been eating very well on her own and it makes me very happy

I asked my vet how many bun losses she has had and her number is still 0! I’m lucky to have such a rabbit savvy vet 5-10 minutes away from my home! (weather pending).
Though these things can be very scary, you gotta remember the buns are hooked up to so many monitors that will show signs the second something starts to go wrong, and will give your vet a chance to fix the problem. Most of the spay loss cases I’ve read about happen post-op. I could be wrong on this information, but this is just something that I’ve noticed. It sounds like you are a very good bun owner, and you’re doing the best for Autumn. Just pay close attention to her after her surgery. Take her back to the vet if you have any doubts! When Harlow was only eating food fed by hand and her poops got really small, my vet gave me some critical care after examining her and I walked out without owing a dime!

My thoughts go out to you both. I hope for positive updates soon!

Wishing your girl a ((((Safe Procedure)))) and (((Speedy Recovery)))))!

So glad to read this. It’s normal for her to feel like sth the cat dragged in for the next few days. That’s why pain meds are so important. Keep her warm, that’s the most important thing for now. Pain meds lowers the body temp and a bun that’s just had surgery is at risk of hypothermia anyway. A hot water bottle wrapped in a blankie, but only if there’s enough space so she can move away from it if she wants to, is often appreciated.

Healing-vibes for little (((((((((Autumn))))))))

(((((Recovery Vibes)))))

Continued healing-vibes ((((((Autumn))))))

Great to hear that she’s eating and fighting her meds! It’s not fun when they fight their meds, but as you say, it means she’s strong =) Clever of you to get her to eat her meds on her pellets!

I’ll have to remember that trick if ever…

After everything and all the worry, I’m glad she has surprised you in a good way.

(((recover fully, feisty Autumn)))

Yeah! This is so great to hear!!! Sending continued healing vibes! Also, note, her hormones, may surge a bit before they completely die down. It’s a strange thing that can sometimes happen. Then it takes about a 4-6 weeks for the hormones to fully die down and for you to see the changes in her.
(Though some notice sooner!)

Keep us updated!

((((Autumn)))) wishing you speedy recovery!

Continued good news. You know when they are being bad, they are feeling good!

I’m very sorry to hear that her behavior hasn’t improved. Her problems do sound very hormonal to their nature though, so I think a month is too short time. Even for boys it can take 8 weeks. And meanwhile they sadly tend to be even worse than before they were de-sexed. Could you keep her caged and only let her play in a bunny-proofed area until she has settled done some more?

Yikes. Im a little worried my nethie will be the same way in a month or two (he was just neutered a few days ago). I would start a little journal about her behaviors. Write down what she does, when she does it, and any possible reason she did it. Like, if she bites you, you can write “bit me after i did this thing. possibly because of this reason. Time: 8:30pm Tuesday April 5th)”. Sometimes rabbits take a long time to get their hormones out fter the surgery, and ive read stories about bunnies being worse for a solid month or two after it was spayed/neutered, but then they start to calm down pretty quick

Wow, you’ve really been through it! I’m happy to read the 2nd attempt at spay was successful and she has healed up.

My first rabbit developed bad litter habits over time and I remember how frustrating it was. Sometime girl rabbits are just hard to figure out! She was a very contrary bun.

So what set up do you have for her? The more details, the better. Type of litter, type of box, do you have any other pets that live there? Is there carpet of hard flooring. Do you use towels or blankets in her area?
I wonder if you could set her up in a pen but cover the pen bars with something so she cannot get her teeth on them. It sounds like she needs to be contained more until the habits improve, for your sake and hers.

I hope the behaviour you are seeing is still as a result of hormones and will pass. I do wonder if she has some discomfort from the 1st operation that may be causing the aggression. Did she have abdominal incision at the time or did they only get as far as the intubation? Did the second vet see any scarring from the intubation?

Because that’s what it appears to be in this case. If that is so, I will be rehoming her. I’m not going to live in rabbit hutch conditions for 10+ years!

No judgement. If this is causing so much stress, I can understand your needing to do this. If it comes to this, do you know of some good bunny folk who can assist you in finding the right home? If not, I may be able to put you on to a few – just PM me here.
I sincerely hope you see positive changes soon and you are able to keep her. You’ve done so much for her already.

Sorry for all my questions. I guess I’ve gone into problem-solving mode.  You are due for some positive experiences with her and I have my fingers crossed that this will happen,

On the 1 in 25 statistic mentioned earlier. I do wonder if this figure is accurate after they discovered the link between certain litter materials and bedding raising liver enzymes? This had a negative affect on how rabbits responded to anaesthetics unfortunately. To this day, inappropriate materials are still marketed for rabbits.

Oops. I didn’t mean to imply the wood & liver enzyme issue was anything to do with what happened to Autumn. Was just speaking in general terms.

So is the litterbox one of those large kind or ones that typically come with the cage?
Some things to try are: switch to a large rectangular box. Lay her hay on top of the litter or soft straw or a layer of really soft litter over the paper pellets. Rexes (and others) can be a bit sensitive about what is underfoot due to their short fur on their feet. Alternatively, use some sort of screen over the litter. Hay on top or in a rack above the litter box.

I don’t know how much time you have, but perhaps try something like clicker training to engage that busy mind of hers. Sometimes it’s the really intelligent rabbits that can be pesky and need some sort of redirection. Some climbing structures or obstacle course.

My single rabbit that is bonded to me uses some chewing behaviours to gain attention. He has things he’s allowed to chew but there are times he’ll challenge me. Often.
I end up giving him pile of fresh hay to stop him from chewing my bedding or baseboards.

Did you raise your rabbit since she was a baby? It is always hard to train a matured rabbit because they are usually fixated to what they were exposed to when they were young.

1. Have you cleaned the accident areas with vinegar water solution or other oder removal type?
2. Did you perform any corrective measures when she poop everywhere? e.g. pick her up and put her back into the litterbox.
3. Do you have hardy hay or chew toy that helps with her itchy teeth? A lot of times they chew because they are bored.

Rabbits like plenty of room in their litter box, otherwise they might refuse to use it. My bun is 3 lbs, his litter box is about 15″ x 18″ (medium sized, rectangular cat box). He could fit in there 3x, with lots of wiggle room. And that’s about as small as I would go for him, otherwise he would feel cramped. Those triangle litter boxes (that’s what you have I think?) are really too small for any bunny to feel comfortable in. Many see their litter box as kind of a hang out spot, so there has to be some extra room.

I hope everything works out for you and your bunny!

Normal bar soap can be used as a deterrent, but your bun sounds like an individual who might like the taste. It’s harmless though so you can try it on hard things like furniture and baseboards.

I have a chewer who spends a lot of time in my bed, so I have about 4 sets of bedlinen that I rotate, they’re full of holes. I’ve like sacrificed them. He also has cheap IKEA fleece blankies that I tuck under the foot end of the mattress so he can pull them out and dig and make holes in them.

You can use a ball pen as a clicker. The click it makes is loud enough for indoors use. Some dog-trainers use a ballpoint pen instead of a clicker with nervous dogs, when they train where there’s little background noise.

Posted By bam on 4/06/2016 1:10 PM 

I have a chewer who spends a lot of time in my bed, so I have about 4 sets of bedlinen that I rotate, they’re full of holes. I’ve like sacrificed them. He also has cheap IKEA fleece blankies that I tuck under the foot end of the mattress so he can pull them out and dig and make holes in them.

This is me! 

A lot of rabbits tend to go in one area of the litter box. So, the bigger box the better if you think she’ll end up hanging out in it. That way only a small area is soiled. She should clean herself up if gets a bit soiled anyway. My rabbits have big boxes. About 65 x 40 cm (25″x16″). Only thing is it’s a bit of a pain to lug out when I have to clean. 

I’d grab a cat box just to see if it helps. They’re cheap and easy to source. Then, if she takes to it, you can try out a screen or drop-through style box which are a bit more expensive. You could then use the cheapy cat box as a second tray for when she’s out and about.

I thought I’d show you what I use for my single rabbit. It might be a set up you could try (given your allergies) once she is consistent with using the box.

I’m lucky as he has great habits and pees and poos in the back corner of the box.  I cut out some of the grid there so all the poo falls down. I only use litter in that back corner.  He probably doesn’t need a box this big, but I already had it so…

The box is one of those tiered shelving units. The base was solid and the other levels where basket-like. 

You can see the back corner where he toilets. 

This one gives you an idea of the size in relation to him. He a 2kg bunny, approximately.

I want to add, it hasn’t always been smooth sailing with him!

Posted By jerseygirl on 4/07/2016 11:45 AM

I thought I’d show you what I use for my single rabbit. It might be a set up you could try (given your allergies) once she is consistent with using the box.

I’m lucky as he has great habits and pees and poos in the back corner of the box.  I cut out some of the grid there so all the poo falls down. I only use litter in that back corner.  He probably doesn’t need a box this big, but I already had it so…

The box is one of those tiered shelving units. The base was solid and the other levels where basket-like. 

You can see the back corner where he toilets. 

This one gives you an idea of the size in relation to him. He a 2kg bunny, approximately.

I want to add, it hasn’t always been smooth sailing with him!

That’s a great size. Where did you get it from? I’ve been looking into other grated tray options for a while on the off chance I end up with two rabbits instead of one when I adopt and that tray looks like it would potentially be a good size for two rabbits. Because unless I end up with just one rabbit again, or a pair of nethies, my current tray will not be big enough

Hi Autumn’s Dad,

This is going to be long. The TLDR is that my neutered boy had an absolutely terrible teen/puberty phase and he is now a very different rabbit.

Your experience is quite similar to mine so I just wanted to pop in and offer some moral support and tell you my story. Perhaps you can gain some insight/hope?

I’ve been a Bun Mum for just over a year and my boy, Baxter, was a complete handful. He still has his moments but he rarely causes me any problems anymore. I got Baxter from a shelter. He was neutered and about 7 months old, he’d been neutered for some months. I didn’t go to the shelter with too many expectations or wants except that I was leaning toward a boy because all my research led me to believe bucks are usually more laid back. Wasn’t I in for a surprise!

I now feel that even though Baxter was neutered that he still went through a terrible teen puberty phase. Coupled with him being incredibly intelligent and a huge drama queen I spent more than a few days wondering if I’d done the right thing in getting a rabbit.

The only easy time I had with Baxter was with his litter habits, they were pretty good from day one though he marked two or three times wherever my scent was strongest (my favourite chair and bed, these were cleaned and blocked off immediately). Apart from that he was destructive, aggressive, anti-social, and would only give me the time of day if I had food. He would have destructive rampages and tantrums and if I interfered he would attack me. He drew blood multiple times. I did my best to let him be but I honestly felt like I was just a food provider who now had to watch this cute rabbit destroy everything. What ended up working for me was teaching him that his area was his safe zone and he could do whatever he wanted in there.

He is completely free range now but his initial area was a dining nook that I fenced off. He had plenty of room if I needed to confine him and this area was his. I did not enter it unless he was out playing. He had his territory and I had mine. If he chewed or was digging I would redirect him to his pen. If he returned to chewing or digging at something (my couch is a bit of a mess, lol) I would gently herd him back to his pen. This took a few weeks, lots of persistence, patience, and struggling to remain calm but he learned that he could be as destructive as he wanted in his pen and he wouldn’t get stopped or hassled in any way. Anything I couldn’t redirect from got blocked off. As the days went by he spent more and more time chewing and digging in his pen. He still chews one curtain occasionally, I’ve given up on that one. He has toys and things to play with in different areas of the house now but the majority of the time he plays in his area.

I was like you and did not want to cage him at all. When I did he would go nuts. In the end though some pen time was necessary for him, me, and the rental I live in, lol. He is rarely destructive anymore and it has been a very long time since he has bitten or scratched me, I mostly put this down to him growing up and getting a bunny friend but I know the training helped.

There really is a lot more I could write about our interaction and his behaviour during this time but this is already going to be a long read. Essentially my suggestion is to restrict her a bit more and, unfortunately, to wait it out.

Good luck with your girl

Posted By Azerane on 4/08/2016 6:13 PM 

That’s a great size. Where did you get it from? I’ve been looking into other grated tray options for a while on the off chance I end up with two rabbits instead of one when I adopt and that tray looks like it would potentially be a good size for two rabbits. Because unless I end up with just one rabbit again, or a pair of nethies, my current tray will not be big enough

Hi Azerane

It was actually from a store that was closing down (hong kong hardware) and it was reduced as one of the levels was missing and the post supports i think. It was some years ago now. This one is really hard plastic but I have seen similar. Mostly in those cheapy variety type stores. My others have a plastic tray that is supposed to be for mixing cement. 

You might be interest to look over this old thread on Litter Box and Hay Rack References for more ideas. 

@Little Binky Feet, thanks for your input!  Glad you made headway with your stubborn bun.

Posted By jerseygirl on 4/09/2016 2:07 AM Hi Azerane

It was actually from a store that was closing down (hong kong hardware) and it was reduced as one of the levels was missing and the post supports i think. It was some years ago now. This one is really hard plastic but I have seen similar. Mostly in those cheapy variety type stores. My others have a plastic tray that is supposed to be for mixing cement. 

You might be interest to look over this old thread on Litter Box and Hay Rack References for more ideas. 

Thanks for the info and link I don’t think I could ever go back to a non-grated box so it’s nice to know ideas in case I need a bigger one. Will definitely be checking out the cheap shops even more closely

Posted By Autumn’s Dad on 4/09/2016 2:37 AM

hey little Bink Feet, thanks for writing in what looks like your first post? maybe I could sacrifice one corner of my room to nature haha, right now her toys (boxes etc) are scattered throughout the room. putting all her toys in one place may help her feel that that is her territory. glad things worked out with your boy

Vinyl remnants are great if you do this. Saves the flooring, easy to clean up etc etc.

Posted By Autumn’s Dad on 4/09/2016 2:37 AM

hey little Bink Feet, thanks for writing in what looks like your first post? maybe I could sacrifice one corner of my room to nature haha, right now her toys (boxes etc) are scattered throughout the room. putting all her toys in one place may help her feel that that is her territory. glad things worked out with your boy

You’re welcome, I just hope it helps. I’ve been a looooong time lurker and I keep meaning to join in but never do. I’m in bed with the flu so I thought I would write about my experience. Even if what I did doesn’t work for you at least you know there are other people out there who have experienced similar issues.

I’m really glad to hear you’re seeing improvement!
Please never think you’re taking anyone’s time here! Everyone who has been sharing their ideas in this thread has learnt something at the same time. And other people who might be experiencing similar problems with their buns will benefit from this thread in the future. You have added to the bunny-knowledge and experience of many bunny-owners through your thread.

We’d really love to keep hearing about you and Autumn and your continued life together =)

Lol !
Hope she listens.

So great to read you’ve seen some changes. : )