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FORUM HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Buns on their backs?

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    • Deleted User
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        When Henry first came home, and as much as I hate to admit this, I held Henry on his back snuggled into the crook of my arm. I got 3 photo’s that I cherish, cause I won’t do this again – I found on another site (before I found BB) that it was a major NO NO! It is actually cruel? When I came across BB (about 2 weeks later) another member politely pointed this out to me (which I totally appreciated cause I may have not known), and even changed my beloved avatar ‘cuddle’ photo (so sad) in case I encouraged unacceptable behaviour?  I have since heard that a vet has maybe indicated this is ok to carry out ‘maintenance’ (sorry, can’t think of the right word – if I do I’ll jump back on and edit/change it, lol). So is it ok sometimes? Or not at all? I am super curious????

        And would it be ok for me to use my original ‘cuddle’ (on his back) avatar? I have no problem if the response is negative, I’d rather know and make it right. Cheers.


      • Roberta
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          My Blossom gets grotty bot on occasion (not so much now) which means there are times when she must go on her back so I can trim the tricky bits post butt bath… Generally I scoop them up so they are supported over my arm and then I tuck them in close to my body, they do feel more secure if they are upright and would be less prone to struggling in panic…
          It should also be noted that a fat happy baby bunny will sleep on their backs with their feet in the air after a good feed if they feel secure.. Blossom still does it on occasion and she is over a year old.


        • rayray
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            I think if they are “forced” it stresses them. I agree with the vet regarding maintenance, it should be ok. Done probably it won’t hurt them physically.
            When Ziggy sleeps on his loveseat (yes it’s his now) he usually sleeps on his back. But jumps up when he hears me take out the camera. So in short, I think it should be ok for nail trimming etc.
            As for your avatar I personally don’t see a problem with it. All rabbits are different and I’m sure there’s a few out there that like to be held. I wouldn’t assume anything based on one pic someone has. I have a pic of Ziggy where it looks like I’m squishing him into the couch, but he put himself in that position. lol


          • Annabel93
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              One of my bunnies happily sleeps on his back when he’s chilled out. I think it depends on the rabbit, and you will be able to know if your rabbit is feeling distressed. I don’t think you need to worry about it really


            • LittlePuffyTail
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                Most people feel that putting bunnies on their back to “trance” them is cruel because the bunny goes into a trance as a fear response. This is what they would do if they were caught by a predator. So it’s definitely not a good thing to put your bunny through that emotionally. Most bunnies will trance if you put them on their back. Babies tend to not mind being snuggled on their backs as much. I feel there is danger in holding a bunny on their back because, if they struggle, they could hurt their back.


              • Monkeybun
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                  None of mine really care, except Moose, so we never put him on his back. The other 3 though, when they are on their back, it’s with their heads angled up so they aren’t tranced, and they just wait til nail trims are over, then roll over and get noms. If your bunny DOES get scared, I wouldn’t suggest it, but if they are comfortable with it, I don’t think it’s much of an issue.


                • Stickerbunny
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                    When bunnies “trance” it’s because you triggered an instinct that tells them to go totally limp and docile and pretend to be dead when a predator catches them, since sometimes that will cause a predator to release them. Some people trance their rabbits for maintenance, though I personally wouldn’t do that. And not all bunnies will trance, so whether or not it’s something your bun reacts to is up to the bunny. The “instant sleep” or “instant doesn’t move and lets me do whatever to them” is trancing.


                  • Deleted User
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                      Fantastic! How wonderful to know – shame I waited so long to pose the question. For the few times I picked Henry up as a baby and held him on his back I don’t think he was tranced (?) as he didn’t react as described above, he happily moved his paws if I was rubbing the wrong spot and opened and closed his eyes. When he had enough and rolled over, I let him. I don’t pick him up anymore, as we seem to have a better relationship hands off, but it’s great to know I can use my old avatar without worrying that I am encouraging irresponsible behaviour. Thanks everyone!!!!!! (Guess what I’m doing right now…. changing Henry’s avatar, lol!) Cheers.


                    • Kokaneeandkahlua
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                        Honestly if your bunny is comfortable on his back, I feel there is no issue. I know mine don’t like it so I only use it as necessary restraint -i.e. if I need to get in and do anything. But I did meet a rabbit once who absolutely loved to be on her back-now it’s not completely on her back, it was snuggled in the crook of my arm, and she would maneuver into this position and would make no effort to come out of it. She purred and loved being pet-she wasn’t ‘tranced’ she was snuggling. I imagine they are few and far between because that was the only rabbit I met like that, but certainly I’ve seen it.
                        She’s your rabbit, so you know if she likes it or not, so go with your gut


                      • Deleted User
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                          Thanks Kokaneeandkahlua! As I said, I wish I hadn’t waited so long (months) to ask the question. When Henry came home as a baby and before I did any research, I picked him up, snuggled, etc., thinking if he got used to it from a baby I’d have a cuddle bun for life. When I read that back snuggles were a ‘no no’ – I ceased it immediately (even though I felt he was enjoying the snuggle time as much as I was?). I then found whenever I picked him up and just sat him on my lap, within a minute or two, he would jump down (obviously I bored him). It got worse from there, when I approached him with arms outstretched, he would run from me. Here I am 8 months later – we no longer pick him up at all. The good that came out of it (not for me – I sooo wanted a cuddlebun) is that we can do anything (except pick him up), and absolutely nothing bothers him! We now have to step over him, he goes into every room in the house (jumps the boards that I have in place to keep him out, doh!). He has absolute trust in his home and with his family (dogs included). My hubby suggested I should try picking him up again? I’m worried if I try that, we will end up 10 steps backwards? Should I???????


                        • Kokaneeandkahlua
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                            Totally!

                            I know that rabbits in general do not like being picked up or held, it’s a prey thing. However this makes vet exams and maintenance( Nail trims etc) a nightmare. My vet has recounted how upsetting it is to restrain and treat rabbits -who really have it great otherwise, in rabbit terms, they have free range and never get picked up. How nice! But seriously it makes vet stuff and maintenance stuff a nightmare.

                            Now I don’t pluck mine and cuddle on the couch for hours, but I handle them and they are super used to it, and my vet and her staff have always complimented on how well they behave and how they can tell they are used to handling. This was reaffirmed when we had to see a specialist -a different vet. All the staff gushed over how well behaved he was and nice to handle. What a compliment!

                            But it’s not about making it easy for the vet-it’s much less stressful for rabbits who are used to being handled to go to the vet, a pet sitter, get nail trims etc. So definitely I’d say start handling her again Go slow, for short periods of time and reward her with out time or veggies or treats after being handled.


                          • Deleted User
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                              Again, thank you! You’ve given me the confidence to give it a go – watch out Henry, here I come! He he he….
                              I’ll let you all know how it goes. (& I hope your all enjoying Henry’s avatar pic again, lol).


                            • Stickerbunny
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                                Mine aren’t picked up a lot, but are well behaved when they need to be – actually AS LONG as I don’t handle them a lot they are well behaved when they need to be. If I have to handle them often, they start acting out all the time (such as when medicating them) so each rabbit is different. Some will be better with frequent handling (getting them used to it) and some will rebel and lash out over it. It’s always best to go with what works for the individual.

                                And yes, Henry is adorable in that pic.


                              • Deleted User
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                                  Thanks Stickerbunny – I am adorable (from Henry, he he…).
                                  Ok, I picked Henry up this arvo (he was great for the minute I held him, then he struggled so put him back down) BUT!!!! I think I may wait another week or two before I try again? He’s molting!!!!! My top was covered in bunny fluff/fur – he tricked me, I thought he was done shedding, doh! (when does it end???).
                                  But that brief minute – wonderful! I will (slowly) try again….. That’s the first time I have picked him up for months – I fell in love with him all over again (till I saw my top!). Lol – dam bunny!


                                • Monkeybun
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                                    I got little Monkey used to being handled by picking her up every day. She used to be little miss No Touchy, but now… I can almost manhandle her however I want Not that I manhandle her, but wow its so much easier to do nail trims and such when she doesn’t think I’m going to eat her. They do get used to it, if thats the routine.


                                  • Deleted User
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                                      I’m sure Monkey is relieved each time you put her down and she hasn’t been eaten, ha hah – that was funny! As I said, I am putting off picking him up for a little longer (till he finishes molting – it’s horrible!), but yes, I am definitely going to persist and pick him up every day till he gets used to it – cause!!!!! today we had the house sprayed for pests, so for the first time ever he had to be put outside. When I first picked him up, all good, but as soon as I walked outside and it took longer than the minute he tolerates me holding him – well, I’m covered in band-aid’s! (also a sign his nails need cutting again – dam!). So I have decided this won’t only be wonderful for me, but Henry too!
                                      Actually, I was thinking…. till we get our loving on track, I may invest in a pair of protective gloves (has to be cheaper than band aids)???

                                      Oh, and just letting you all know – he did not appreciate being put outside!!!! He’s still cranky at us! (10 hours later).


                                    • Briana
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                                        My bun doesn’t really mind being on his back, he even eats upside down in my arms from time to time


                                      • Deleted User
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                                          Oh Briana – are you just trying to make me jealous? It worked!!! ha ha ha….
                                          Still waiting for his moulting (it’s been 6 weeks +, gggrrrrr!) to calm down a bit, and most importantly – my scratches to heal! Dam wabbit!
                                          But I am going to see this through….. (Ssshhhhhh! don’t tell Henry) and I will every know how we go.


                                        • rayray
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                                            This forum made me realize that I should get Ziggy use to being handled for maintenance purposes. I’ve started to pick him up once or twice a day for less than a minute each time. It’s been a week now and I can actually pick him up with no struggling to get down or get away. I’ve been reinforcing this with kisses on his forehead and a craisin. So far so good!! My secret wish is that after he’s neutered he’ll want to actually cuddle, but I’m not holding my breath.


                                          • Deleted User
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                                              rayray, if you get to cuddle your Ziggy before I can cuddle my Henry, I’ll be furious!!! ha ha ha ha….


                                            • Stickerbunny
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                                                Trick to getting bunny cuddles from a non-cuddly bunny: Hold a bag of craisins above your lap and teach them that laying down and letting you pet them there will get them a craisin, not digging at your hand trying to get the bag.


                                              • Deleted User
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                                                  See! That’s the problem! My Henry is soooo obnoxious (and spoilt by my hubby who ‘apparently’ doesn’t like him!), so treat’s hasn’t worked (so far). But I heard everything wonderful about ‘craisin’s’ and only just found out what they are…. So they are on my shopping list for when I hit the shops next. Thanks for the heads up Stickerbunny! I will give it a go – if that doesn’t work, I’m gonna offer him cash (it works on my kids? Lol…).


                                                • rayray
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                                                    I don’t know why they are such a hit, but Ziggy will move so fast when he sees I have a craisin for him. lol! He’ll even lick my fingers to get every last taste of them. Sometimes I will chop a couple up into really small pieces are sprinkle them in his hay.


                                                  • Deleted User
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                                                      I have to laugh, cause as much as every BBer has mentioned them – I didn’t know? But Roberta (another Aussie) explained it to me, so I now know what to look for and buy – lol… (how embarrassing….). They are ‘on’ my shopping list – it better work! Or I’ll be cranky at everyone! ( ha ha hah ha hah!).
                                                      Hey, I’ve had ‘big’ probs getting Henry to eat his hay – I’ll be trying that too! Thanks rayray!


                                                    • Annabel93
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                                                        I still don’t know what a craisin is?! Is it an American thing?


                                                      • rayray
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                                                          Craisins are dehydrated cranberries. They look like raisins but are more red.

                                                          I’m not sure how popular they are outside of Canada/USA, but they are usually in the same section as raisins or you can try a healthfood store.


                                                        • Annabel93
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                                                            Ohh. IS there a reason everyone seems to use them as a treat instead of raisins? I mean I know both should be given in small quantities as they’re so high in sugar, but do bunnies prefer cranberries or something?


                                                          • Roberta
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                                                              My herd go beserk for them, all except Piglet… They literally throw themselves at me. It one way I am guaranteed to get them into the bungalow when I leave for work.


                                                            • rayray
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                                                                For humans at least, raisins are better. They have less sugar (most craisins have added sugar). I think that’s they rabbits go crazy for them, the added sugar. Also why you can only give them a very small amount. I only give Ziggy 1 a day. 2 if he’s being extra good.
                                                                Side note, raisins also have potassium which craisins do not.


                                                              • Deleted User
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                                                                  Oh gosh – I’m still wiping away my tears, between Kate losing Jersey and now LEL’s Bella and to come back to my forum and see everyone talking cranberries, how funny! I’m not only smiling, but I’m having a chuckle! (ok, I’m laughing! I feel super stupid that I only learned now how to bribe Henry with ‘cranberries’!)
                                                                  Don’t worry Annabel93 – I didn’t know what they were either? I’m not quite sure where they originated from, but I’m an Aussie and Roberta (another Aussie) assured me I can get them here. They have to be available world wide, cause every other BBer raves about them! rayray (not forgetting your house guest ‘Craig’ lol!) lives on the other side of the world and she has them for her Ziggy. I wasn’t planning on going to the shops till Monday, but guess where I’ll end up tomorrow? You’ll find me in the raisin section of Woolies or the health food shop around the corner! Doh! Bloody bunny!


                                                                • RabbitPam
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                                                                    With craisins vs raisins, I find that it’s like most foods with bunnies – they just prefer one over the other, depending on the bunny. Sammy likes raisins, didn’t care much for craisins, and goes bananas for bananas. They have definite tastes, so if you find your bunny doesn’t seem to like one, try the other. They can also change their minds about favorite foods from time to time.

                                                                    Re the on the back topic: first, don’t worry about your avatar. It is fine.
                                                                    As for putting a bunny on their back, I agree with K&K regarding holding a bit more upright so the bunny isn’t ‘tranced”. The most important thing, and the reason it is discouraged, is that they can hurt themselves very, very easily when the twist to get out of it, or if they fall, or both. A person will instinctively grab for a bunny that’s struggling to get out of a hold, when the safe thing to do is to get as close to the ground as soon as possible, and let the bunny go so they can gently get out of the back position and not have far to go to land on their feet. They can’t fall from a height like cats – about as high off the ground as your knees is plenty high (chair or couch height is about the same). The twisting/flipping they do is the most potentially harmful. And you won’t want to let go of a squirming bunny, but you must to prevent that kind of harm. That said, it is just never worth putting the average bunny through it. Most bunnies will not tolerate being on their backs for long, and won’t enjoy it.

                                                                    I also had a rare bunny, Spockie, who allowed me to do a cradle position almost daily, but it was more for seconds. He would turn over himself, then find a position fully supported on my chest looking over my shoulder, with my hands and arms around and under his middle and butt. But I did that long before I ever found binkybunny.com, and might not have tried it. So when I got Sammykins, and found out that she HATED just being picked up, I’ve never done it again. It was such drastically different temperaments from one bunny to the next that it takes subtle attention to your own bunny’s nature to know if it’s even remotely OK. So, better safe than sorry. Since your bunny already tolerates it, you can worry less, but I’d advise you to let it go.


                                                                  • Deleted User
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                                                                      RabbitPam – Well Henry had his people call your people to do carrots – and he is still waiting for the call back – very disappointing! Ha ha hah!

                                                                      Hey RabbitPam, so lovely to hear from you and thank you! I still haven’t made it to the shops, bloody Christmas got in the way, wrapping presents – Henry has no idea what’s going on???? Though he loves the scrap paper on the floor…. But I will get there – and get BOTH! Lol… (anything to try and bribe my boy into my arms?!?!).
                                                                      With the ‘bun on his back’ – yes, I’m over it, I have no interest, I just wanna be able to hold him on my lap, & maybe a ‘baby cuddle’ against my chest? We’ll see? And thanks for supporting my avatar photo! (though I have to admit), I recently took a double take of my photo and believe Henry is slightly on his side – as I said previously, I don’t think I ever had him tranced? (at least I hope not), because he reacted when I was patting him etc., and let him move. Anyhow, what’s most important is that I have learned thanks to all the great BB info, suggestions and advice. I think my boy is like your girl Sammykins, but I am gonna try and pick him up. If he decides it’s a definite ‘no no’, (and breaks the bunny/mother ‘cuddle’ contract that ‘I’ put in place when he first came home (who cares that he was under age?) – I will ‘sue’ him for every last hair on that cute bunny tail of his) and leave it be…. but I want to try on the ‘chance’ he comes to party… How lovely to have a cuddle with my boy again… but no, I can take a hint – I’ll leave it be if the craisins/raisins fail me. (my last chance – fingers crossed everyone).


                                                                    • Stickerbunny
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                                                                        Craisins vs raisins .. my buns just go nuts for craisins like no other food. They will do anything for one. And you can get craisins without sugar if you look carefully. I don’t know why so many buns like them.


                                                                      • Deleted User
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                                                                          Who cares??? ha ha hah! (why bun’s love them?) – if it gets Henry on my lap, I’m grabbing 2 bags Stickerbunny! Then I’m buying into the company!
                                                                          Yes… (sad face – just joking) I’ll try and buy the sugar free one’s. (ha ha ha hah!).


                                                                        • Deleted User
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                                                                            Ok, I made it to the shops, searched 3 isles and determined not to leave without them asked a staff member – GOT THEM! I ended up with the ‘oceanspray’ brand that Roberta suggested (sorry Stickerbunny – not sugar free, doh! But now that I know what I am looking for, I will keep an eye out, thank you.). When I got home and before I put my cold items in the fridge I quickly opened the bag to offer him one to give him a taste to see if he liked them? He LOVED it! I took note that rayray said only one a day (2 if he’s good – well, that ain’t gonna happen!). But I couldn’t help myself – tonight I sat on the floor with one in my fingers and tempted him with it. He put his two front legs on my lap to get it! How exciting! It worked! I reckon we’ll be having full on lap cuddles (maybe even lap dances????) by the end of the week. How fantastic! Thank you so much everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Annabel93 – give it a go! Thanks for the insight into raisins vs craisins Rabbit Pam (by the way, Henry is still waiting to hook up and do carrots? Lol.) I’m sure you can all tell how terribly excited I am, so before I embarrass myself any further with my silly gushing, I’ll just thanks again for caring and replying to my forum, Cheers, Henry’s mum.

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                                                                        FORUM HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Buns on their backs?