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FORUM BEHAVIOR Litter Training Problem

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    • TheLittleBunns
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        I’ve been trying to litter train my male lionhead, but nothing seems to work. I had a litter box in a corner of his cage and all he did was sleep in it. He would dig up his fleece and pee in another corner. I moved his litter box to the corner he was peeing in, and he dug up the fleece again and started peeing in a different corner.. So, I went and bought another litter box and put it in the new corner he was peeing in, but he just moved to another corner. I use the carefresh natural litter so I don’t think that is the issue. He is 7 months old and its getting really frustrating. Any tips?


      • Beka27
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          Had he been neutered yet? If so, how long ago was it done? If not, that is your first step.


        • TheLittleBunns
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            Haven’t neutered him yet. My other male rabbit is litter trained very well, besides pooping outside the box, and he is not neutered. They are in separate cages. I don’t have the money right now to neuter them though =/


          • MoveDiagonally
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              I don’t think it’s realistic to expect a rabbit to be fully litter trained until after they are spayed/neutered. Your other rabbit having good litter habits is the exception in a situation like this. An intact male marking is normal. Even though it’s frustrating it’s important to remember that he’s not doing on purpose or out of spite. Rabbits are territorial animals by nature and his hormones are amplifying the natural urge to mark and claim territory. Having another intact rabbit around could be adding to this as well.

              Have you looked into any low cost spay/neuter options in your area?

              Edit: 

              “I don’t think it’s not realistic…” To “I don’t think it’s realistic…”


            • TheLittleBunns
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                Theres not many. I live in a very small town. Only one we could find was $140. Going to try to get them both neutered before january.


              • TheLittleBunns
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                  http://instagram.com/p/flfH0iocZx/
                  That’s a picture of his current cage set up. I just cleaned it yesterday and he has already dug up the fleece and pooped and peed everywhere besides his litter boxes. There’s another box at the other right corner that you can’t see in the picture. Because he is so messy my father is making me keep him right outside the back door. I feel really bad because its getting so cold outside. My other rabbit is in my room and I clean his 1 litter box once every 2 days and it doesn’t even stink. =/


                • mijOok
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                    From looking at the picture of his current set up… have you tried placing hay directly in the litter box? Also since you said he initially just slept in the first box and now consistently digs up fleece to poop and pee, I’m wondering if he may have never realized the litter box was the bathroom with just the Carefresh in it. Both the Carefresh and the fleece might be coming across as just a nice, fluffy spot


                  • MoveDiagonally
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                      Do you have a proper outdoor set up? Setting an indoor cage outdoors is not appropriate outdoor housing. He needs protection from predators and weather if he’s going to be outside.

                      Mijook’s tips are spot on. Putting hay in the litter box and removing the soft blankets from the floor might encourage better habits. You will have to clean a lot more frequently until you can get him neutered.


                    • TheLittleBunns
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                        Yeah I think I’ll get rid of the blanket and throw hay in the litter box. He is in a large dog cage right outside my back door. We have 2 big dogs and our backyard is fenced in pretty well so its rare for animals to come in the yard, let alone right up to our backdoor. He is safe where he is. I cover his cage with thick blankets at night to keep it warmer too.


                      • Irina
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                          Just echoing what has already been said. I had fleece down for mine- thought it would keep them cozy, but they kept peeing on it. Within days of taking all the soft fuzzy things out- except one bed- the pee was only going in the litter box. Several weeks later I was able to reintroduce the fleece for coziness- but they did not start peeing on it again!


                        • MoveDiagonally
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                            A large dog crate is not adequate outdoor housing. It’s really not safe to house your rabbit that way.


                          • TheLittleBunns
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                              What isn’t safe about it? We have a big overhang roof over my back porch area so weather can’t really reach him.


                            • MoveDiagonally
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                                A backyard hutch does not protect a rabbit from predators. Incidents include attacks by dogs, feral cats, raccoons, and coyotes; and more rarely, owls, hawks, opossums, and weasels. Determined predators can bend or break wire; agile ones can open cage doors. The mere presence of predators may trigger an extreme reaction in a rabbit; a panic attack during which the rabbit runs wildly back and forth, twists, and thrashes. A rabbit in this state can break her own back, or die from a heart attack. A survivor may be permanently disabled, or develop infection from bite or claw wounds.
                                http://rabbit.org/faq-rabbits-outdoors/

                                There’s no such thing as a predator free outside area. 

                                On a covered porch wind and cold are still issues. Covering a wire cage/dog crate with blankets is not really a good way to keep him warm. Proper outdoor habitats are insulated while still allowing ventilation. You’ve also said he’s messy and smelly. Even if covering the cage with blankets kept him warm you would also be trapping the ammonia from his urine inside his cage with him which can cause respiratory issues. 

                                Spending time with a bunny when they are outside is also a concern. Are you planning on spending hours each day out there with him in the cold? Equal time should be spent with your indoor and outdoor bunny. Not spending as much time with him deprives both of you of important bonding and socialization time. Observing behavior is also an important way illness is detected and you’re losing that by not having him inside. Proper outdoor rabbit housing at best reduces the risk of the dangers associated with it. In the end, even the best outdoor housing is more dangerous than keeping a rabbit indoors. 

                                All that said, the issue seems to be odor. You can control the odor by cleaning frequently, litter, etc… Check out this thread (especially Mocha’s contribution at the end):

                                https://binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/aft/121872/Default.aspx

                                Here’s another thread that talks about keeping smell down:
                                https://binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/aft/124065/Default.aspx

                                Getting him neutered will also help the situation. I understand not being able to afford it but the holidays are coming up. If your family exchanges gifts you could ask for the money for his neuter. I’ve seen younger people do that on this forum… Heck, I did that when I was younger. If there was something I wanted that was more expensive than any one person would be able to get me or wanted to get me. I asked anyone in my family giving me gifts to give me the money they planned on spending for my gifts so I could use it for X thing. Just one idea.


                              • tanlover14
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                                  I agree with MD, you need to move him inside unless you have an adequate source of outdoor housing. However, I feel the pain your parents are going through with your un-neutered bun. I went through this with four of mine since our house is nothing but carpeting for floor. Talk to your parents about creating an area INSIDE where you can properly cover the floors so when he has accidents, it’s not a big deal. Try getting a cheap shower curtain and putting it down on the floor. Easily cleaned and not a big deal when he’s neutered – you just throw it away.

                                  Domesticated rabbits bodies are not suited for the outdoors. They need to be in temps ranging from 60 degrees to 78 degrees. No exceptions. You really need to talk to your parents and come up with a better solution. If they are worried about smell, then you need to clean more. The only time my rabbits area smells is when I leave it for a few days without cleaning up. And they live in my dining room so if they smelled, I would be not the happiest camper either


                                • tanlover14
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                                    Oh wait, you said you keep him in a dog crate? From your picture that seems to be the case. You know he’ll be perfectly okay INSIDE to not have anything down on the bottom of the crate. The metal bottom (or plastic – whichever) is fine for them to walk on as long as their are no wires to hurt their feet. All that fleece and fluffy stuff is probably one of the main reasons he’s peeing everywhere. Move it all out, he doesn’t NEED anything fluffy or comfy in there. Just put the litter and hay in his litter box. And he’ll be fine inside.


                                  • TheLittleBunns
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                                      The main issue with the smell is that my dad has asthma and is pretty allergic to my rabbits. He also would run around and spray all over my walls. I had them both in the same cage in my room but since my lionhead ripped my netherlands testicles open we had to get a separate cage. There’s no more open space for another cage in my room so we had to put him outside =/. I will try my best to get him space in my room. I also applied for a few jobs so hopefully I’ll be able to make money to get them neutered.

                                      I’m quite impressed with my netherland dwarf though. He healed up completely within a week and 1/2 with no treatment or vet visits. We called and they said as long as he was eating and drinking, and there wasn’t any pus he would be fine. It seems rabbits can be tougher than people make them out to be.


                                    • Beka27
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                                        It’s not ideal, but have you considered finding a new home for the rabbit? You’ve listed multiple reasons why this just might not work… your dad has allergies, lack of money, lack of space. Lack of money isn’t necessarily permanent, but space isn’t going to magically appear in your room, and your dad may always have a reaction to them. It would be a tough decision to make, but if it would be in the best interest of the bunny and your family, I would consider it.


                                      • TheLittleBunns
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                                          I don’t know any families that would keep him inside. My friends are trying to get rid of the rabbit they have had for 2 years because they got turtles instead. They do the same thing with dogs. Its quite sad. I don’t want to give him to a family that does not know much about caring for rabbits. Illinois is not huge on house rabbits. Most people use them for meat here or keep them outside in wire floor cages


                                        • tanlover14
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                                            I’m questioning how he is allergic to one rabbit but can handle the other? That makes no sense in my mind. When it comes to both of them being inside – either both or neither of them would bother allergies. It’s actually VERY rare for a person to be allergic to the rabbit – it’s almost always the hay they are having an allergic reaction to. (My boyfriend had this same problem.) When we switched to a different type of hay – his allergies have been much more tolerable but with the timothy he has a really bad reaction. I would try a different type of hay.

                                            I feel like this bunny is being punished for something that is VERY normal in rabbits that haven’t been neutered or spayed. It’s not his fault and he shouldn’t have to be put outside. Honestly, it’s your parents fault for not researching rabbits enough to know this almost always happens to young rabbits. Your rabbit shouldn’t have to suffer because of their decision to okay you bringing him home. Not to be harsh, rude, or not understanding. I DO understand as a lot of young people have come on BB with problems their parents have with their rabbits. It’s very normal for young rabbits to hit puberty and become more aggressive to rabbits they have previously been okay with – so that’s nothing unusual either and for lack of better terms – really stems from lack of researching rabbits beforehand. I don’t mean to deter you away from taking advice on here but one solution would be to talk to your parents about some of these issues more extensively. I wonder if they may be more understanding and willing to help you come up with the money if you explain and show them articles and research you can do on how these behaviors are extraordinarily normal for rabbits not altered.


                                          • TheLittleBunns
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                                              I’m going to be moving some stuff around in my room so I’ll have space for both cages. Thank you for all the tips!


                                            • tanlover14
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                                                I’m sorry you’re having so much trouble with your dad. It sounds like an excuse to me. How much a rabbit stinks has nothing to do with allergies at all which is what leads me to believe he’s just making excuses for why he wants the rabbit out of the house.

                                                In my opinion, if you think there’s any chance he would listen, you should sit down with him and explain that him not taking you seriously is hurtful. You’re trying to be a responsible adult with these rabbits and unfortunately, he’s making it difficult. He should be PROUD that you’re taking the time, energy, and doing research to ensure your rabbits are well taken care of and adjusted. He should also respect the fact that you’re coming on the forums looking for solutions and help. Honestly, he should be lucky he has a child that is this responsible because so many aren’t. Is there any way your mom could help talk to him? Maybe if you printed out and showed her some of the responses about how harmful a rabbit living outside can be she’ll be more responsive to helping you in regards to getting your father to understand? Just a thought. Not sure if that really helps you out at all or not.


                                              • TheLittleBunns
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                                                  .


                                                • TheLittleBunns
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                                                    Well so much for that idea. He just kicked everyone out of the house. We have to live with my grandma. Thanks for trying to help out guys. I just wish my mom would leave him :/


                                                  • Irina
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                                                      Oh- I’m so sorry TheLittleBunns. I don’t know your personal situation, but when adults argue/disagree, it is because they have their own issues- it is NEVER because of a child or a pet or anything else. Please know that. I hope you have a good friend or family member that you can talk to about all of this. I wish you, your mom and your bun peace and happiness. ?


                                                    • Beka27
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                                                        Oh goodness. I do hope things come together for you very soon. This is a strange situation, and obviously I don’t know specifics, but sometimes people grasp onto really crazy things in an effort to exhibit total control of a situation. It’s possible that the rabbit situation might be *one way* he is trying to show his control. There’s not a lot you can do about that, besides seeking other options for yourself.


                                                      • TheLittleBunns
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                                                          Everything is fine now. I’m home and my rabbits are both in my room. Here’s what I set up. My dad didn’t like them both taking up space on the floor so I stacked them. I know the top cage is high, but I’m very careful taking him down and putting him and up for floor time.
                                                          http://instagram.com/p/f_N2U_IcZk/


                                                        • Irina
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                                                            Wow! I am so happy for you and your family. Looks like you came up with a great solution to the problem. Good for you! Congratulations!


                                                          • Beka27
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                                                              That looks really good! It’s not *ideal*, but given the circumstances, it is definitely good enough! I’m glad you were able to get him in out of the cold!


                                                            • tanlover14
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                                                                Great idea, LittleBunns! Thanks for getting him inside – that’s what matters right now!


                                                              • TheLittleBunns
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                                                                  Since I moved him inside into his own cage he only pees and mostly poops in his litter box. I’m so relieved lol. Thanks so much guys =)

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                                                              FORUM BEHAVIOR Litter Training Problem