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Forum BONDING V and Lucy bonding!

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    • Tate
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        Lucy was spayed 4 weeks ago and this week, I attempted to bond her to V. They are both pretty much free roam, I just stuck a divider down the middle of my apartment.  They have been able to interact pretty much since I got Lucy like…. 8ish weeks ago. They have been fine, sometimes V will beg for licks through the divider and then when Lucy doesn’t give them, he tries to dig at her head. That is pretty much the extent of it though. They got into one scuffle, before Lucy was spayed, but that was it. 

        I’ve been putting them into a plastic bin for their bonding sessions. They have had 3-4 of them so far like this. It seems like they kind of nip at each other, but there is really no room in the bin for them to break out into a fight. I haven’t really felt worried about them hurting each other yet. 

        When I came home on my lunch break today, Lucy got out of her area and into V’s!!! They clearly had been fighting, BUT there are NO wounds on either of them and there was like a single tuft of fur that had been pulled out of Lucy. When I tried bonding V to my other (now deceased) rabbit, there was tons and tons of fur pullage. When I walked in the door, V basically had Lucy cornered. There is no way for me to tell how long that happened for.

        When I got off work, I came home, but them in their bin, and took them in the car for a good 20-25 minutes. V would hide under Lucy, at one point having more than half his body under her belly, but that was it. I put them right next to each other, nose and nose, and they pretty much just sat there. They didn’t even attempt a fight. 

        What would your next step be?? 


      • MoveDiagonally
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          Are you doing your sessions in a neutral area? Have you tried any non-stress bonding neutral sessions (not in the bin)? Generally it’s neutral > semi neutral > cementing/territory. Stress bonding is a great tool but “normal sessions” are the best way to gauge progress.

          Have you checked out the bonding info tab on this site?
          https://binkybunny.com/BUNNYINFO/tabid/53/CategoryID/9/PID/940/Default.aspx


        • Tate
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            Unfortunately, they are only in the car for right now. I don’t really have a neutral area, since my apartment is literally divided down the middle! Lucy even enjoys hanging out in the shower… o_O
            I did look at the bonding page and I think I will have to set up a semi neutral space by putting up an xpen and then covering the floor and sides with a tarp or something. I could close Lucy off from the bathroom, but she loves laying on the tile in there, so I’d rather not!
            I was thinking of doing a 2×2 ft xpen to start with and then moving to a 4×2 and then figuring out from there.
            Oh one other question: what if there is no mutual grooming? V did lick Lucy in the car last night, but Lucy did not return the favor and hasn’t ever. I am worried that they will ignore each other TOO much and they won’t bond that way..


          • MoveDiagonally
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              In the interest of bonding I would definitely find a way to make neutral and semi neutral places for them. Remember that even if they are blocked from a place they like it’s only short term. Once they are bonded they will have the whole apartment to hang out in. Because they are free range you might want to think about re-introducing them to the whole area slowly (maybe room by room?) after they are bonded. Litter habits can go a bit haywire and they need some “close” time to really get to know each other and adjust to living together. That’s later though.

              Right now I would focus on trying to make a neutral space for them. The bathroom might be the easiest place to close off and clean (removing any territorial smell). Doing sessions in neutral and stress bonding when things get rough would be my advice. Once they get along in neutral move on to a semi neutral area and repeat the process. I would work on making semi neutral while you are in the neutral phase. The bonding info page has great advice for doing this:

              One of my bunnies considered almost every place, (except for the bathroom), her area, so I had to create a semi-neutral space. I did this by putting a section of sheet vinyl on the floor. (You can use a tarp or a blanket too). Then I set-up the x-pen over the vinyl. I then covered the sides of the x-pen with blankets, and cardboard to block their view. Some general room smells might be familiar but they don’t usually recognize the space. Then over time I gradually removed the side panels.
              https://binkybunny.com/BUNNYINFO/tabid/53/CategoryID/9/PID/940/Default.aspx

              After that comes cementing. This is where you set up a temporary enclosure for them with toys, litter boxes, ect… And supervise them for 24-48+ hours. It depends on the bunnies and how they’re doing. After that I would deep clean your whole place to remove as much territorial smell from everything (I don’t envy you!). You can sprinkle baking soda on carpeted areas (and fabric furniture). 50/50 vinegar and water mix for wiping down walls and cleaning things, etc… After cleaning I would slowly introduce them to more and more space. Similar to what most people do when they start free-ranging their rabbits or bring a new bunny home.

              Two of my bonded rabbits don’t mutually groom that often so I wouldn’t say it’s top priority in bonding. Grooming is more important to some rabbits though. Some will pick fights over grooming or lack of grooming. There’s something called the “banana trick” where you put mushed banana on their heads to think they’re being groomed etc… I used to hid craisins behind their ears, lol. I think it’s still pretty early to worry about things like that though. I would focus more on how they get along and how comfortable they’re acting around each other. Until you seem them in a “regular session” it’s hard to gauge where they’re at and what tricks will help.


            • Tate
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                Wow, thank you so much!! This is really helpful. I will start cleaning the bathroom pronto!


              • Tate
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                  Ok, so we are on our third bonding session since yesterday. I cleaned the bathroom really well and put them both in there. V is definitely the dominant rabbit. He demands to be groomed and when Lucy stops grooming him, he bites her under her chin! He also hasn’t groomed her at all, although he did groom her in the car a few days ago…
                  V will kind of go after her, but I haven’t seen his tail go up and he doesn’t make any noise. This is quite different from when I was trying to bond him to Fievel. Those were full on fights and they were hard to separate when they happened. Mostly, I notice that V turns his back to Lucy. Lucy is also quite weary of him when he approaches, although she flops out completely when he is a few inches away and not looking to bother her.
                  So, what should I do about V’s dominance thing? I know that there typically is a dominant bun, but is it possible he will always he bossy like this? Lucy doesn’t fight back ever. Kinda funny to see the dwarf push around the flemmie…


                • MoveDiagonally
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                    Dominance behaviors are often more prominent in the beginning. I think his bossiness should lessen as they get closer to being bonded. I’ve heard that with giant/dwarf pairs the dwarf is usually the boss.  Pretty funny. 

                    Sounds like things are going alright overall!


                  • Tate
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                      I sure hope it lessens! They are together right now and I blocked the door with an xpen to keep them in. I am just outside the door. They are mostly just ignoring each other, although V still chases Lucy when she comes near him! But again, his tail isn’t raised ever and no grunting whatsoever. They have been together for an hour now! Woohoo!!
                      Thanks for all of the advice!

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                  Forum BONDING V and Lucy bonding!