At My Wit's End

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BINKYBUNNY FORUMS

This topic has 9sd replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 12 years, 7 months ago by Sarita.

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- 09/10/2013 at 6:26 AM
  BelarusianBunny
  Participant
  81 posts
  I’m not sure if this belongs here and I apologize if it doesn’t.
  
  Some of you may recall the saga of my 10 year old Netherland Dwarf Dima. After vet bills that reached the 4-digits, it came back that my rabbit has Tyzzers Diease and E. Cuniculi. I question the Tyzzers because he had no symptoms whatsoever. The E.C I accept. This has been almost 2 months now that he has his mobility back. Also, 2 months since his last antibiotics.
  
  The vet chose to treat neither condition. I was told to just finish the Baytril/Metacam. Since there is belief the Tyzzer’s is there, the E.C would not be treated because dewormers are hard on the system. And so, I was sent home with the advice pretty much “Keep your rabbit comfortable and wait for the end. There isn’t much you can do.”
  
  Now for 2 months, every second day, or every day, or atleast today on the 3rd day, he has seizures. I know the seizures are E.C related. And as of yesterday, my rabbit is not feeling himself. He just sits there and he isn’t eating much. I know these signs and know it is time to call the vet. But when I call for Dima, the receptionist (that goes to ask the vet) gives me the attitude of “why can’t you just let it go? Nothing can be done. He’s old, can you accept this is passing of old age?” Yes, he is 10 and that’s old but he has a lot of strength. He is sitting up, he is not laying down. He just seems “sad”. I don’t know what old age passing in rabbits looks like as my other rabbits have passed from cancer or a heart attack. And I know Dima has an underlying condition that isn’t being treated that must “flare up” and bother him.
  
  I’ve tried my best to find another rabbit savvy vet. However, the closest other option is 7 hours away and my husband says that it is out of the question. I’m becoming full of resent thinking “If you needed a specialist that was 7 hours away, you would be there!” Again, he is one of those telling me to accept the future outcome and “it is what it is.” I know it is what it is but I KNOW there is treatment out there. I atleast want to see if the E.C is treated, maybe the seizures would go subside. Maybe, if someone had better advice than this “rabbit savvy” vet, Dima wouldn’t go into sadness/sickness/depression spells every once in awhile.
  
  I don’t know where to turn and I can’t bear having these days of “binkys to seizures”. Or, from a happy bright eyed bunny to the sad one I see now. Yes, I know this post does not make sense but I feel I have nowhere to turn of people that that understand. I just needed to get this off my chest. I’m sorry that it is early in the morning and that I make no sense.
- 09/10/2013 at 6:34 AM
  Roberta
  Participant
  4355 posts
  It makes a lot of sense…. Huge hugs and vibes to you both…. Things change, I went from having no bunny savvy vets with in a reasonable distance to having 6 within the space of a year… You just never know when one of the others will get a pocket pet specialist and not advertise the fact.. Keep phoning and checking.
- 09/10/2013 at 7:02 AM
  Beka27
  Participant
  16016 posts
  Thank you for posting an update, I’m sorry to hear he’s not doing better.
  
  I have found your two previous threads and linked them here so others can read his story and see what has already been suggested/tried. I DID lock these two threads, so no one can reply to them, but they are here for those new to this.
  
  E Cuniculi v. Infection: https://binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/aft/125899/Default.aspx
  
  Tyzzer’s Disease: https://binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/aft/126087/afnp/343724/Default.aspx
  
  I am incredibly upset with your vet and his staff. They are being completely disparaging to you…
  
  There isn’t anyone, ANY OTHER VET who sees rabbits in your area, even if they aren’t the most rabbit savvy… they may be able to at least consult with an expert on this topic and help you with their direction… I would rather you see a vet who says “There’s nothing we can do” but at least shows you some COMPASSION and SYMPATHY.
  
  Have you submitted your situation to Dana Krempels through her page on AllExperts? She usually can reply within a few days. I’m interested to hear what her opinion is and what (if any) diagnostics/treatment can be done safely.
- 09/10/2013 at 7:05 AM
  Beka27
  Participant
  16016 posts
  (Quite honestly, I would NOT return to that vet’s office. If you had no other option, I would seek out a “regular” vet to help your bunny pass. I couldn’t even imagine having to “let an animal go” in their office, they must be so cold to the people who are there grieving…)
- 09/10/2013 at 7:08 AM
  Sarita
  Participant
  18851 posts
  I have a friend who has a 12 year old rabbit who was also experience seizures and the vet prescribed phenobarbital and she has not had any seizures since – ask your vet about this.
- 09/10/2013 at 8:53 AM
  BelarusianBunny
  Participant
  81 posts
  Sarita — Thank you for that information concerning phenobarbital for rabbits. I’m definitely going to ask about this. I am glad that your friend’s elderly bunny is doing better and it is a good sign there is a hope for my bunny.
  
  Roberta — Thanks for the hugs and the advice. I do hope that things change soon and there are more “exotic” vets in the area. If not, the best bet would be for us to move!
  
  And Beka27…
  
  I learned when I had to euthanize my big English Spot after her heart attack that vets here do not want to see rabbits. But, in the biggest case of emergency, I know that one will. He said point blank, “I do not know much about rabbits but I’ll do it for the sake of the animal.” If in the case that I need to go this way with Dima, I know it can be done.
  
  I really dislike how the vet has “given up” on my rabbit. I understand there are pros and cons of treatment and what treating one condition can do to the other condition. (If that makes sense? Sorry for the run on sentence.) I just “wished” and “hoped” that the chance could be taken to medicate and see what happens! We have NO outstanding bills with this vet so I cannot understand the cross attitude with us. We pay the full amount right after our visits. So, that cannot be an issue of “giving up”. I know the office is very nice to dog and cat owners. And then I think, is it because my accent is difficult to understand? Maybe we look stupid? I never give orders to say “You MUST see my rabbit..” either. My rabbit has all of his health and import papers to say he was healthy when he moved here too. I would not have moved him if he was not healthy or a carrier of anything! This could not have happened anyways.
  
  I am NOT saying I know better than any veternarian. I did not go to school like them to learn their trade. I believe when they make opinions, they are educated ones. But, if there is a treatment, atleast try to do something. Yes, my rabbit is elderly but with good care, he could go on for some more years. Who knows? I just hate seeing him have so many off days.
  
  Yes, I’ve contacted Dana Krempels for her insight into the matter. I very much liked her approach and her kind manner. However, I contacted her before I got conclusive blood work results back. However, her advice was to TREAT the E.C, with varying strength and forms of medication. (If interested, I could let you know the names?) Treat the E.C, see where we are in terms of progression, and go from there.
  
  I am glad that Dima is still with us. If in the case I know HE has given up and he no longer enjoys life, I will know it is time for him. But, in the case where he is still strong, wants treats and grooms, I will continue to bother people to get him help. If I had my way (and my driving licence was valid here), I would take my rabbit as far as I could. I am at the point of having a rabbit related divorce. The rabbit, the amount of money I’ve put into the rabbit and my “emotional craziness” over the rabbit are big points of contention now. I guess I am just a crazy rabbit lady.
  
  Maybe this has been answered in another thread (I forgot to search as this just come to me) but if a rabbit is passing from old age, what are the signs?
  
  I very deeply apologize for yet a second rant. But from bringing this up with you guys, I at least have a lead on what to do next. Thank you for your time. And please ignore my scatterbrain.
- 09/10/2013 at 9:05 AM
  Sarita
  Participant
  18851 posts
  It’s okay to post your frustrations – it probably helps to do that. It is possible the vet while having good intentions just doesn’t know enough to know what to do and I’m definitely not taking his side, but it makes me wonder if this is the case.
  
  As for your question on passing from old age – I don’t think there is any one sign. I have had to euthanize 2 of my elder buns in the past 4 months based on poor health, poor prognosis and just what I felt was a general poor quality of life for them – I had the support of my vet on this too. It was not an easy decision but I just had to look at the overall circumstances and their age. I also had to factor in any of the recommendations that my vet had to treat and what the chances were of the treatments working and putting my rabbits through the stress of the treatment and the cost knowing the outcome was poor.
  
  I currently have another senior who is about 11 years old and he’s still going strong but tomorrow it could be another story.
- 09/10/2013 at 9:55 AM
  jerseygirl
  Moderator
  22356 posts
  I’m sorry about the stress you’re going through with this. If it helps you talk about it here, please do! When I had a sick rabbit at the end of last year, it helped to talk about it here. To “think out loud” with people who share the love of rabbits.
  
  Yes, I’ve contacted Dana Krempels for her insight into the matter. I very much liked her approach and her kind manner. However, I contacted her before I got conclusive blood work results back. However, her advice was to TREAT the E.C, with varying strength and forms of medication. (If interested, I could let you know the names?) Treat the E.C, see where we are in terms of progression, and go from there.
  
  I know she often recommends Panacur (fenbendazole) and also Ponazuril (toltrazuril). I don’t believe a prescription is needed for either of those.
  ETA: After reading your other thread, I’m also confused about the Tyzzers disease. Perhaps some antibodies were detected?
  From what I’m reading, a tissue sample is needed to give an definite diagnosis.
  
  Beka’s suggestion of seeing another local vet that more helpful in working with you is a good idea. They always have other professionals they can consult with treatment plans. They would be able to at least give prescription for anti-seizure meds. (Diazepam is another that can treat seizures).
  
  {{{Vibes}}} for Dima.
- 09/10/2013 at 12:45 PM
  tanlover14
  Participant
  3617 posts
  I am so sorry for your frustration and the hardships you are having. That vet and his staff are terrible and I wouldn’t give him any more of your money. He obviously does not care about your rabbit – and any vet that doesn’t care about my animals – WILL NOT BE SEEING THEM. I agree with taking him to another vet (that is perhaps less rabbit-savvy) but can consult with more experienced rabbit vets about your possible options with treatment. I’m really apalled by your vet experience – it’s inconsiderate and just plain nasty to treat you like that.
  
  Feel free to vent on here anytime. All of us will listen and offer any advice we can give. I don’t have much advice to offer as I haven’t had to deal with these issues yet but I thought you could use some more kind feelings towards you and your situation. Keep your head up. The only advocate your bunny has is you! And you are obviously not ready to give up on him yet (as he doesn’t seem ready to give up either!).
- 09/10/2013 at 1:14 PM
  Sarita
  Participant
  18851 posts
  I have to think that he has given up not because he won’t treat your rabbit but because he doesn’t know enough about rabbit medicine to be confident enough to treat your rabbit.
  
  So in other words it’s not won’t but can’t.
  
  He just has a limited amount of experience so perhaps looking for another vet might not be a bad option.
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