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Forum HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Questions from a new bunmom (LONG!)

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    • manic_muncher
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        Ok, a few days of reading, I’ve decided to go ahead and ask the questions that I’m not entirely sure about.  Even though other threads and links have been very informative, I’m going nuts trying to find my -exact- answer.  I apologize in advance for the length.  I have refrained from using smilies to help curb the desire to play connect-the-dots.  You may need to refresh your drink and maybe go potty first…

        I had rabbits when I was a child (I hate to even think about what a miserable life that must have been for them).  I had a dwarf rabbit I adopted in the early ’90s. After reading all kinds of info here, I can see what I did wrong and what I could have done to make her life (and mine) better, with only a bit more knowledge.  However, since I do not have a time machine, I can only go forward from here.

        I recently bought a Holland Lop bunny from a breeder.  Later this afternoon, he will have been with us a week.  I know that is barely enough time for a new bun to get used to it’s new environment but he seems to be adjusting amazingly fast.  And since I am home almost all the time (and incredibly absorbed with him right now), I am able to observe even the slightest of differences and have some questions.

        I hate to beat a dead horse… but let’s start with litterbox training. lol   The first thing I did “wrong” was put bedding in the bottom of the cage (a 3x2x2 dog crate).  I put the box in the corner where he had peed the first time.  The next time he peed, was right between the food dish and the litterpan.  Honestly, I have no idea how he was managing to do it, they were nearly touching.  So after moving things around, placing the urine soaked paper towel into the box, removing all bedding from the cage itself, several more misses, more redecorating and finally understanding he just preferred not to pee in any of the 4 corners… we have finally achieved pee-trained. YAY.

        The hayfeeder was a complete waste of money.  Since he will NOT eat hay from it, even though it is hanging right over the litterpan!  He will only eat hay if it is on the floor or in the litterpan.  So in the litterpan it goes, while the hayfeeder remains decorative art and possible jungle gym…

        My question now is about the poop.  Yes, he poops in a pile in the litterbox when he’s munching away happily at his hay.  He’s new to us, his new home, the concept of a litterbox is new for him also, I don’t expect miracles.  I accept there will always be the random pellets scattered about, even from a rabbit who is more seasoned with litterbox usage.  I’m wondering if even though he’s showing all the signs of being relaxed and happy (ie. binkying about inside the cage, laying with his back legs stretched out, even a split second flop) if maybe he’s annoyed with my OCD of sweeping up the random poop that magically appears when I turn my back.  He spends so much time laying about in the corner area closest to my chair here at the computer (where I spend a great deal of time), I just hated seeing him laying there surrounded by poop.  So… the dustpan has a new home, on top of the crate.

        He doesn’t -seem- to mind me sweeping up, he doesn’t run away from the little brush, he seems quite curious about it all.  Sweep, sweep, sweep, dump into litterpan, go sit back down, turn around 2 min later, the bottom is scattered with poop again. Wash, rinse, repeat.  I was trying to help reinforce the litterbox idea, but now I’m wondering… could he be mad that I keep cleaning it up?  Maybe he feels that I am invading his space and re-marking his territory to show me it’s his?  Should I just leave the mess there surrounding him?  I don’t want him laying in filth, but I swear it’s almost like that’s what he wants.  (You’re still reading??)

        The reason I’m so OCD about it (aside from just being a nut) is related to the second part of my extremely long post. (I’m sorry)  He binkies.  A LOT.  I know that’s good, it makes me happy to see him so happy and comfortable.  BUT the cage binkying gets the poop balls flying!  And he won’t come out of his cage.  So short of removing him from the cage against his will to clean up when he isn’t in it, I end up sweeping up the poop balls everytime I see them.  I’m also considering having the dustpan and broom surgically attached to my arms.

        He’s only been outside his cage 2 times this past week.  The first time I was on the floor with a pile of willow limbs that I was stripping leaves from, so I could use the branches for lashing together a hay nest I was making him.  He hopped around, sniffing and tasting the branches and rooting through the pile.  He seemed pretty happy about it.  He’d come up to me and put his front paws on my leg while investigating what my hands were doing.  Before I stood up, I placed him back in his cage, because I didn’t want to startle him when I moved.  The next time I took him out, he didn’t really want me to pick him up, but I did anyway… I didn’t want him to feel like he was forced to be in the cage.  He didn’t freak out, but when I placed him on the floor in front of me, he immediately turned around, climbing over my leg to hop, a little clumbsily, back in his cage.  He hasn’t left it since and I haven’t forced him.  Yesterday he actually sat in his relaxing corner and let me pet his forehead and ear through the bars!

        His cage door is open ALL day (and all night when I’m awake, which is nearly all the time), he will come to the doorway, peek around, but he will not leave it.  I HAVE been making additions to the crate (building a shelf for it now), and added a ramp at the door so he can easily come and go.  He just refuses to explore outside of it.  I am only concerned about it so much because as I said, he binkies a lot in the cage… and I am terrified he’s going to hurt himself bouncing off the walls and such.  I know he needs more exercise than his short binky bursts inside the crate, but I don’t know how he’s going to get it if he won’t leave it.

        Am I being impatient?  Will the cage binkying be enough exercise for him since the crate is quite large for his size right now?  Should I leave his scattered poop balls laying about and only concentrate on sweeping the ones that fly out of the cage?  How long should I leave these scattered balls surrounding him alone, before something really needs to be done about them?

        As I said, he isn’t afraid (at all) of me using the dustpan and brush inside.  I can take the brush and sweep all around him and even brush him to the side to get the ones behind him.  Sometimes he moves out of the way, sometimes he hops into his little hidey-hole tube and gives me full access and hops back out as I finish that area up, sometimes he just curiously follows the pan and brush as I sweep.  I just don’t know if I -should- be encroaching his territory at this point.

        I apologize for my extremely long-winded post and thank you for putting up with it, seeing as you’ve gotten to the end.  I appreciate any and all helpful suggestions and comments!


      • Sarita
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          LOL – I really would not worry about him being annoyed with your cleaning up – I’m the same way and my rabbits are fine.

          As for the dog crate – are you considering housing him in this permanently? or are you going to consider other housing eventually?

          I do think you are being impatient about him coming out to explore – just relax and give it time. Also if you want to sweep up the scattered balls right away – sweep them up, it’s really okay…you need to be yourself around your rabbit and this is not harming anything and makes you feel better.


        • CheriB603
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            Maybe he hangs out inside to avoid the crazy-lady! Lol!
            I’m sure it’s just that all this is new to him. It was promising that he came out to explore the willow branches. Maybe try sitting on the floor outside his cage and ignoring him. Maybe leave a little food trail over to you. When he gets close, don’t try to pet him or make any sudden moves. Just talk quietly to him. After awhile he’ll understand that coming out does not equal getting picked up, but that he can explore at his own pace. He’s lucky to have a great Mom!


          • justwildbeat
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              It’s okay to be a bit of neat freak. My bun is also pretty curious whenever I clean his cage. He’s never been aggressive about it but instead loves to get in my way whenever I’m sweeping up bits of litter and hay.

              Also I wouldn’t be concerned about your rabbit’s hesitation to leave the cage. It took mine a good two months to finally leave his. He too was zooming all over his cage and 2nd level for awhile. I also never closed the cage door (day or night) because he never tried to leave. After adding a ramp (which he never uses) and sitting outside with a treat. One brave day he finally stepped outside of the cage. Now he’s comfortable in both areas. I also added a cardboard box with a cut out door outside of the cage for him. It gives him a secure place to hang out.


            • Beka27
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                This goes against basically all advice, but I’ve had luck with it in the past, so it IS something you could try… When I’ve gotten a new rabbit, I’ve taken them out of the cage and closed the cage behind them for a bit, not longer than 5-10 minutes. They’re super confused being in a “new space” (outside of the cage), but within a couple minutes they realize it’s NOT a bad thing and start to explore.

                Regarding the poop, the crate is his “safe space” and you really don’t want to have to do a lot of sweeping in there when he is inside. You didn’t mention his age, and I’m guessing he’s too young now, but within the next month or so, he may start to get cage aggressive and want to defend his territory.

                So my advice would be to keep enticing him to come out, so then very soon you’ll be able to clean up when he’s out.


              • manic_muncher
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                  Thank you all for the feedback! Yes, he is young, about 11 weeks or so now.

                  As for the dog crate: yes, I intend on this being his permanent “safe house”, with full-time access to living room (where the crate is located). My husband and I rarely have a reason to leave home, so he’d be able to run free almost all the time, except the few hours no one will be able to supervise. (like when we’re sleeping or the odd few hours when out of the house) I did run across the link for those mini-grids, so plan to extend the contained area of the crate for times when running freely is less than ideal. Hopefully he’ll see it as an extension of his cage and consider the entire closed area as his own room.

                  I’ll sit on the floor beside the open door more often than I do now. I’ll read, watch tv, talk to the hubby and try to resist wanting to hug him and squeeze him and call him George.

                  I really hope he chooses to leave sooner than two months. TWO MONTHS!! How will I ever survive!? -sigh-

                  I’ll continue making grass mats and hidey holes on the floor nearby and add little treat trails towards the hay and willow piles surrounding me. Hopefully his curiosity and greediness will win out. lol

                  I’ll also -try- to be less invasive with his personal space. I don’t want to make him feel less secure by constantly sweeping up after him. And I definitely don’t want him to become cage aggressive because I’ve been doing that. I’ll chew on the idea about the closing the door for those few minutes to prevent him from being able to just turn around and immediately hop back in. But, I think I’ll consider that after more time has passed. I’d prefer he gain the confidence to do it on his own and not rush him. Patience has never been a strong point for me, so waiting for HIM to be ready and when I think he SHOULD be ready probably are two points very far apart. lol

                  Thanks again, I really appreciate it. Hopefully I’ll gain enough knowledge and experience to be able to contribute to other people’s questions one day!


                • Monkeybun
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                    What kind of flooring is there around his cage? that could be one reason he isn’t coming out, if its hardwood or tile or linoleum. Those kinds of floors make bunnies wary a lot of the time.


                  • manic_muncher
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                      hmmm I forgot to put the flooring into consideration. Right now the entire living room floor is just 3/4″ plywood. We’re waiting a bit to put new carpet down (due to elderly occasional incontinent dog, who won’t be with us much longer). As I said, he seemed pretty happy when I had that mess of willow branches all around me, climbing and burrowing through them. But that second time, he was just on the bare floor, and was in quite a hurry to go back in his crate. There is a blanket laid out right in front of the door, but it -is- nearly the same color as the floor, with no patterns to distinguish it apart from it. He might not even be able to tell the blanket is there honestly.

                      Maybe I should put down a more obvious one so he can see the definitive edges. Thanks for that! I’ll give doing something about that a try too!


                    • Enh98
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                        Lol your post made me laugh! I, too, have a holland lop but he is about a year old. Still find myself sweeping poop balls every morning and night from his xpen. I wonder if he gets annoyed at me and is popping all over to mark his territory? You gave me something to think about!


                      • manic_muncher
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                          OoooOOoOo is that him as your avatar? He looks like mine! Yea, I’m not sure really… I’m wondering when his hormones begin to kick in if he’s going let me know that he’s been pissed at me all this time. LOL I’m not sure how soon I’ll neuter him. I was considering playing the waiting game to see if he might not spray, but I really don’t know if I wanna test that theory out. I’m not -against- neutering, just am a little afraid it could go wrong, as any surgery could do. Oh well, until he starts talking, I’m not sure if I’ll ever figure out whether he’s pooping to tell me “this is mine, this is mine, this is mine and ALL of this is mine” or not! LOL


                        • Beka27
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                            Maybe get one of those cheapy 5×8 low pile area rugs? You can get them at Target, Walmart, etc for about $20. He might prefer that flooring!


                          • Enh98
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                              Yes, that is him! We got him at one year old but he showed absolutely no aggression or spraying. We did get him neutered though because of big time humping! Also thought it might help with litter training….


                            • manic_muncher
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                                Thanks Beka! I’ve been dealing with this non-carpeted floor for way too long, I probably would like it better too! lol

                                Enh, he’s really cute. So did the neuter not help at all? lol


                              • Beka27
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                                  A litter trained bunny will pee in the box 100% of the time, and poop in the box at least 90% of the time. There may always be some dropped poops, but as you know, they’re dry and it’s not as big of a deal as pee.

                                  A rug would be a great idea, and even once the floor is finished, you can still use it for his space.


                                • manic_muncher
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                                    I really have to thank you guys.  So.. I finally got my x-pen today, and it literally was in the door 2 minutes when I started to break out the shower curtain, indoor/outdoor carpet, the carrier to move him into a quieter room.  Since I was doing some major changes, and would be making a ton of noise, I wanted to put him somewhere he wouldn’t be terrified. 

                                    That 3x2x2 dog crate got modified.  We trimmed away the entire side (except the middle bar) giving me full access to the crate.  Zip-tied corners and edges to make sure it was good and sturdy.  Made some adjustments, set up the pen and brought the carrier back to the pen door.  Now remember, this is the same rabbit I’ve had for 3 weeks, who refused to come out of his cage.  He stepped out of the carrier, into his new space in less than 10 seconds, and began to explore.

                                    After a few hops around, the binkies began.. and continued for a good 30 minutes.  Along with the happiest bunny alive dancing, there was much chin rubbing on everything!  “this is mine, this is mine, this is mine… mmmm all mine!”  I feel like such a SCHMUCK for making him stay in his crate and trying to coax him out, when indeed it was all about the flooring.  THREE WEEKS he’s been limited to short binky bursts in his crate!    UGH!

                                    Bumpy and Outlaw were playing with each other on opposite sides of the pen, it was so adorable.  I’m so happy that he has a proper place to call his own now and isn’t afraid to run around in it!  I wish we had more room for him!

                                     

                                    resting after a long binky session

                                     

                                    The side, now front, of the crate with the single lone bar across the middle, will be supporting a shelf I built.  But, I need to cut him a new hidey hole (like you see in the right hand of the crate, with a top opening, so he can hop up onto the shelf thru that.  Hopefully tomorrow I’ll get that done.  As you can see, he’s already found his pellets in the litterpan.

                                    I’m keeping it kinda sparse for now, so I’ll have plenty of room to sit inside with him and give him plenty of room to run around and get those muscles working.  I do have several boxes I’ll be making little hideaways out of for him.  I’m just so glad it was such a simple thing, putting a decent flooring down for him, and not him choosing to be antisocial!

                                    Thanks again for the suggestions!

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                                Forum HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Questions from a new bunmom (LONG!)