OK thanks, and thanks for the litter box swapping tip
I will probably end up starting around January/march. A bit nervous coz I know thats around about the time that females (even spayed ones) can get a bit aggressively scatty

And good luck with your bonding too, are you making a thread about it?

Oh I saw she had a happy quintet, just haven’t gotten round to reading all the finished bonding threads yet
Thank you for the links, I will go and check em out now hehe.

Hopefully Zeus and Freya like each other, or at least don’t hate each other one sight. I did hear about one bonding that took nearly 2 years, but they persevered and it worked out in the end. As far as I can tell, Freya isn’t a very dominate bunny. She only bit me once and that was just after her spay so I think a combination of hormones, the fact it was in her cage AND her wound still hurting quite a bit meshed together to create one grumpy bunny. She has never tried to make me leave my seat, she never demands strokes (but won’t say no when offered one) and French lops are known for being pretty laid back so I am hoping that translates to an easy bonding (the breeder has been keeping me up to date, he says Zeus is maturing very well, that he is a very friendly and happy bunny so far)

I have another question.

I was making the buns ‘dinner’ and Zeus was happily lurking at the entrance to the kitchen waiting for me to finish so he could try and trip me over to get his food quicker and I looked around. I noticed Freyas pen door swinging open (I actually heard it creak in a haunted house way in my head) and all I could think of was they were gonna go at each other again.

I warned my son the door was opening (he was closer) but she got out before he could stop her. Zeus turned slowly to see what was going on because my son was starting to freak out.

I told him to calm down (so he didn’t accidentally freak the rabbits out) and by the time I reached them all I was preparing to pull them apart to prevent the circling and fighting I was so sure I was gonna see.

Except they weren’t. Fighting that is. They were cheek to cheek, heads down, both were definitely wanting groomed, so I took advantage that they wouldn’t attempt any killing so I could ‘leave it on a good note’. I stroked them both on the head and they happily stayed were they were (a shock with Zeus, as he has only allowed me to stroke him AND has stayed still obviously enjoying it, only once).

Yesterday I saw them sitting beside the ‘wall’ of their pen,head to head (bums in the opposite direction) gazing at each other. They looked really calm and I felt it was very good.

There are times like that where they seem to like each other, but then they nip each other through the bars (usually if one sticks their nose through the bars at the front, or lays against it.

Are they both dominant? Once I picked Freya up and placed her back in her pen (closing the door firmly, my son apparently hadn’t done it properly) Zeus was straight over, and I stopped them from fighting again by rubbing her nose twice, and then stroking his head properly, he was demanding a grooming again. Have I done the wrong thing grooming them together? I hope I haven’t made them think the other was accepting their authority.

Eek, really worried, Zeus is definitely becoming hormonal and he has his health check next week to see if he can be castrated. can someone tell me any obvious submissive/dominant body language besides the mounting/grooming order?

And if both ARE dominant, would there be a true head honcho? Or am I doomed to a life of bunny scuffles and flaring tempers? It is especially worrying since Zeus is already bigger than Freya, (he is a French lop, she is only a rex, and he will weight more than twice her weight when he is fully grown most likely) I am worried that in a fight when he is older he will cause some serious injury.

Edit. Since this happened Freya has been in her pen, and Zeus out playing. They have sniffed each other through the bars but instead of biting each other like normal, they are flopping as close as they can get today. there has been lots of snuggling and I think I caught Zeus licking Freya’s fur through the bars once too. Lots of laying with their heads close together and just gazing, or eyes half closed looing extremly content. 

I know that Zeus’ castration will cause his smell to change a bit, but hopefully this means they will be quick to bond. (I thought nothing could melt me truly inside until I saw them snuggling half an hour ago)

When I was grooming Freya yesterday I did find a bite on her shoulder. While Zeus doesn’t appear to pull her fur out, he has obviously managed to grab her skin instead (she is a rex and her fur is very short). I cleaned it, there was no blood so I dont know how long she had it for and I got her looked at today when Zeus was in the vets for a health check and his NoviBac injection and the vet said she was fine. I just don’t know WHEN it could have happened, because since her great escape I have been double checking and triple checking the locks on both their pens.

Zeus is booked in for his castration two weeks from today though, but there have been lots and lots of sweet moments between the cage bars, if one is demanding to be groomed though I am stroking their forehead so they haven’t been fighting between the bars (all it takes is one or two strokes to appease them) and once thats done they lay down both leaning against each other on the bars just gazing at each other.

And good, side by side grooming sounds excellent, we already do something similar Jamie will storke Freya while I stroke Zeus when they are laying quietly next to the bars beside each other.

And Beka, thats exactly how it is, one day they love each other, and then one doesn’t get a groom when demanded and all hell breaks loose, but once one goes the other holds a grudge for the rest of the day XD

When I do start bonding though, how will I tell which one is less dominant than the other? Because both seem to be about the same right now (but some of that could also be due to Zeus’ hormones, so Im holding out and hoping that once he is settled he will be the submissive one)

Yeah a month at the very least. Apparently this is supposed to be a good time of the year for bonding as well, It’s not breeding season and even neutered buns have their scatty days during that time XD so with luck timing will be right, and both will be in a good mood. I do need to get Zeus more used to being handled though otherwise Im unsure how I will get him into the bathroom for his dates with Freya XD

So swapping trays and litter and stuff back and forth now is a good idea? How long do I leave them/the items, a few hours? A day? 2?

Tan, Im so excited. Watching them when they are both in a calm mood and snuggling, it’s like a little glimpse into the future.

An extra plus, I mentioned in a previous thread that Zeus was awfully underweight. He is now 2.2kg. He isn’t as bony as he was either, he still has a fair way to go, but he out stripes Freya when it comes to eating easily and he is already bigger then her at 14 weeks (he isn’t heavier though, Freya is a bit of a fatty now, she will be leaving the baby rabbit food now as she is coming up for 6 months I think, normally she would stay on baby pellets and alfalfa till she was 7 months, but Im concerned she will be so fat I will have to roll her into her pen in the evening instead of asking her to go in herself ). But yeah, so Zeus is getting healthier, he is much happier now too Hopefully we can get some meat onto those bones, as much as I love stroking him, I hate still feeling most of his bones protuding

Zeus is still quite young, but as he was leery of being handled I thought I would let him settle in before handling. He won’t even stay still with a hand on the back of his neck. He isn’t always bolting as soon as he sees me now and the breeder insisted that he handled him daily.
How would you suggest I get him used to it?
I need to be able to groom him and right now I cant even clip his nails, (he won’t even trance, I hate doing it, but the difference between him kicking like mad and him trancing sometimes the lesser of two evils is the better option if he won’t sit still at all) Freya was obviously well handled when I got her and she has a very accepting nature, Zeus is coming around in terms of bonding with us and he tolerates my kid, but there are some things we all have to do with our rabbits that neither of us enjoy (I think me having to syringe medication into his mouth when we first got him definitely didn’t help in the slightest)

So switching the buns around sounds easier.

I will make a switch when i clean out their trays tonight

A little update.

I have switch them into each others pens twice now. The fighting between the bars is much worse though. They really seem to hate that the other one is in THEIR pen, but they are quite happy to be in the other ones pen (Zeus made a massive show of it by binkying like mad and racing as fast as he could for about 10 minutes in Freya’s pen XD)

I swept out both pens thoroughly today, cleaned the litter tray (and placed in a mixture of both their ‘gifts’ in the clean litter) I have also placed both trays in the same corner so they are side by side with the wire walls between. I’m hoping that maximum saturation of this new mixing of scents will help them get over themselves a little bit more. But yeah, there has been absolutely NO sweet moments between them since I last posted.

Caught Zeus spraying and discovered that while he doesn’t like being handled, he DOES love being groomed, so much so that when I was sweeping the pen up with him in it, he kept trying to get underneath the hand brush and force me to brush HIM. He was even sitting in the dust pan haha.

I also discovered a great way of placing their boxes (they have cardboard boxes now instead of cages in their pens, more room for them to run around in, and they can chew and dig the heck outta them) I turned the boxes so they face the back with one side against the wall of the cage. Leaving a little gap along the back it makes a decent little hiding spot. Zeus kindly chewed a massive hole in Freyas box, so SHE has two entrances (something she is enjoying at the moment judging by the foot high binkies every time she squeezes out the hole))