Never heard of either of these brands (we get Oxbow), but that is so much for tax! Do you think it’s an error? How much was it for shipping?

Well, the best thing to do is to contact them directly concerning this….obviously they are not aware of this and won’t be unless someone tells them. Go to the bottom of the page to email or phone them…

I do like APD hay though – the timothy gold which is 2nd cut.

I just checked Small Pet Select’s website and holy cow, $3.50 for a 25lb bag of hay? That’s incredible! I also tested APD’s checkout page and to deliver to Delaware, it’s $36 for standard shipping. Normally I’d say that’s okay b/c the weight is 25lbs, but how does the other website charge only 10% of that? Something isn’t right.

Sarita- Do you like APD more than Oxbow? I should probably switch to another brand b/c the Oxbow hay I get at Petsmart doesn’t look fresh at all and Nugget mostly pees/poops all over it rather than eat it. The Small Pet Select hay looks so fresh, green, and delicious compared to the bags of Oxbow I’ve seen in stores.

I’ve done the price/shipping weight comparisons with other companies in the past and it’s been awhile but I was convinced (when I did it) that prices were somehow manipulated so that the cost for whatever the amount came out about the same – seems like some put the cost in the shipping and lowered the initial cost and some put the cost in the shipping and lowered the hay cost…that was just what I concurred when I did comparisons back in the day when I had to order alot of hay for alot of rabbits…now I just have 3 so I just don’t compare the costs anymore. Basically in the end I concluded the cost was ever so close either way. This was back in the day too when you could get your hay shipped directly from Oxbow on their website – that is no longer the case.

I do like APD better than Oxobow – I always get the 2nd cut though, not the first. I have not tried Small Pet’s Select however.

I have also liked KMS Hayloft hay as well.

BinkyBunny’s small bales are also excellent.

I will have to say though about the bags of hay you get in the pet stores, they never seem good to me – I’ve only bought my hay on-line which comes in boxes because I’ve never been impressed with those bags of hay.

A few years ago, I started to place an order on the APD website. When It got to the shipping charges, which were sky high, I cancelled the order. I now buy the 5 lb. bag of APD Timothy Gold from Dr. Foster & Smith. It’s $12.99. Their shipping is $5.99, or it’s free if your order is $49 or more.

I just received today my first order of Small Pet Select. I bought it through Amazon, since I had credit there. It seems very similar to the APD Timothy Gold. I was expecting it to be a bit more fragrant, since many of the great reviews mentioned you could smell it through the box, but it still looks very nice. I don’t know if it’s available on all size orders at Small Pet Select, but I know that you can get a code for free shipping on the 4.5 lb. box from their Facebook page.

Thank you for the information Sarita and tobyluv!

tobyluv- When switching hay, should I get a small bag to test out first? 5lbs of ADP is a lot compared to my bags of Oxbow that are less than 1 pound lol. Also, how long should it last for one rabbit? And does yours like ADP or SPS more?

Nugget isn’t eating as much as he’s supposed and a bag of oxbow that’s barely 1 pound seems to last more than one month. I know that’s not good.

You can buy APD 5lb from Amazon too for around $15. I used to get those since I’m an Amazon addict. Now I get larger boxes from a local store (currently on a 50lb box that was literally stuffed into my car). I like APD much better than Oxbow simply because it’s softer on my hands. My buns are not that picky when it comes to hay and I don’t think they can tell the difference.

I agree shipping is outrageous on american pet diner website. I use just oxbow i get it from drs foster and smith!

I admit I don’t think about Amazon or Drs Foster for hay…I guess because in the past I’ve always bought directly from APD or KMS.

I don’t know how shipping works and how Amazon and Dr Fosters can ship for so cheap because I don’t have a business that requires shipping…in the end we must be paying for it somehow in some way. I know shipping a large box of hay is going to be costly as it weighs more. Whatever the case is, these larger companies make it harder for smaller companies to compete and it kind of sucks for those smaller companies.

OKAY — WEIRD.   I just posted this and it showed up as a RabbitPams post. I recently changed her role to include some admin privileges to help with our gallery and so when I signed in as admin, it seemed to attach to her name.  Sorry about that, I have to figure that out asap!!  Rabbitpam was NOT posting.  It was me.  I hope this post posts as me now!  

Ok so back to what I posted originally: 

Shipping is really the bane of my existence! This is where the little guys sometimes lose out to the larger chains because having a small business myself (The BinkyBunny Store part), I understand the issues.   Though sometimes in the very beginning, smaller guys do better with a few products and they still have a low overhead. 

Some of the larger chains do a “smoke and mirrors” kind of thing that creates the illusion of getting free shipping or discounted shipping by raising the prices on certain items (sometimes they are the necessities) So they get some of their shipping cost back through the masses — and so you actually pay for the shipping in the price of a particular product(s). That’s why there is a minimum because in order for free shipping to happen, the profit for them has to be large enough. Now with that said, that can still be a decent deal if you want to buy in HUGE bulk amounts, but then you have to make sure you use it by the expiration date. 

Then there is another part — Large companies have hubs throughout the U.S. which makes it cheaper to ship from. Smaller businesses may only have one or two locations and that means we may have to ship further, hence more expensive. I think APD is in Nevada, so that’s where they ship from. 
 

Then there’s mass — large companies can sometimes get bigger discounts on products and shipping due to volume (but they also have more costs to house products etc). But due to the large amount of sales, they may be able to make a good profit even if if their profit margin on each product is lower. It’s like comparing making $1.00 on 1,000 orders as to $3.00 on 100 orders. Larger companies can do that while smaller companies already struggle to keep their head above water with the larger profit margin just because they can’t possibly sell as much as the larger chains. 

The last is that some newer online based companies can get their shipping subsidized by investors to help them get into the playing field. It depends on how much the investment is, but sometimes this helps them give outrageously low prices with no or little shipping costs for a year or two (sometimes longer if they see it helping wipe out the competition and they can see coming out ahead) Then they can slowly raise the prices back up and begin making a real profit and they begin paying for the shipping in the cost of the product.  Sometimes smaller companies are able to start with low prices, but I have seen so many vendors go under once they reach a sweet spot and the costs to grow make them less competitive – so they either get stuck where they are or have to raise prices later on or go out of business.  It can be really hard for a small company later on to start off with low prices. I have seen many wonderful small companies go out of business this way because they don’t have the kind of investors to keep them afloat when they grow and the cost of growth is more than what their profit margin originally allowed for.   

As a small business, it’s really hard to survive all of this. Everytime I see posts like this, I can’t help but let out a big sigh of defeat.  We try and keep our prices low to help offset the shipping (We only charge what the carrier charges us) And when we did a poll about would you rather pay higher product price and get discounted shipping, or would you rather have the price of the product low and receive exact shipping costs, most people chose the later. However, in reality, that doesn’t seem to be the case, and it’s hard to struggle against the perception of free shipping (AND the reality of what larger companies can offer sometimes in some cases). 

I think that it comes down to it, you have to do what you have to do for your own pocket book, but IF you are able, purchasing from a smaller business does wonders. Supporting small business helps in so many ways. Especially, when it helps support an educational and interactive community site…ehhem…like ours, as we do try to give back in this way. We also offer unique goodies that the bigger chains don’t offer, and so even if you do decide to order in bulk from another company, there are some really unique things that bunnies just love that may be cheaper to ship out because they are smaller and lighter. 

APD does have great hay and they recently did begin distributing through Dr. Foster’s and Smith. But when I see the price differences, I really don’t know how APD stays afloat selling online their own stuff anymore as they seem to have to compete with the very company they are now selling to. Again, I’m sure selling in large amounts allows for a good profit right off the bat and that may be how they do it, but long-term, not sure how that works — But I guess they have that figured out. 

Thanks so much for your insight BB – I knew there had to be a catch somewhere but just didn’t know what it was exactly. Good lesson.

I do know that Oxbow uses distributors as well and you can no longer buy directly from them like you could in the past – I guess they have to because they sell their stuff in Petsmart…I know APD as you mention does not.

I do wonder though if APD may end up doing what Oxbow does and just sell through distributors. That may end up being the way to go for them. I know my current distributor used to sell their products back in 2007 I think, but back then, maybe they couldn’t make a sweet enough deal. I would definitely sell more APD if I could go through my main distributor. It’s a great product line.

And yeah — I can get up on my soap box when shipping is mentioned. I can write a novel about it — kinda did.

tobyluv- When switching hay, should I get a small bag to test out first? 5lbs of ADP is a lot compared to my bags of Oxbow that are less than 1 pound lol. Also, how long should it last for one rabbit? And does yours like ADP or SPS more?

Drs. Foster and Smith does sell a 24 oz. bag of APD Timothy Gold ($5.99) and the BB store also sells the small bag if you want to try it out first. I can’t really say how long the 5 lbs of APD lasts, because I feed my bunnies a variety of hay – Oxbow orchard grass, botanical hay and meadow hay in addition to the APD. They seem to like the SPS hay equally well as all the other hay, although they’ve only had a chance to sample it for one day.