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FORUM HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Pre-Diabetes AND Worms in Stool?!

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    • konijn82
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        Hi! So I’m obviously new to this site, but not new to bunny-ownership. For many years I had a Flemish Giant companion that was an amazing rabbit!!! I learned a lot about rabbits from him, especially because everything with him was so specialized. He passed away in May, which was very hard and sad. I came home one day from work and noticed he hadn’t eaten anything, was listless, and was hopping around funny. Took him to an emergency vet right away, and he passed away while there. Upon autopsy, they found that there was torsion (twisting) of the stomach and liver, which apparently is very rare.

        Well, about two weeks ago, I noticed my new bunny – a Dwarf – wasn’t eating and was very listless. Very similar symptoms. I thought no way could this happen to me twice, right?! Took him to the vet. They gave him SQ fluids, a Critical Care diet, and put him on a heating pad and BAM, back to himself and he got to come home. Great! Then literally 7 days later, the same thing happened. Took him back to the vet, and this time they said they needed bloodwork since it was the “second offense.” Makes sense. They found a really high glucose level (412) and glucose in his urine. We tested him for diabetes via a Fructosamine test. His level was in normal range, but on the very high end. He was diagnosed as “pre-diabetic,” with the only treatment (for now) being a change in diet. Great! Easy answer, not a huge cost to fix. He does miss his papaya like crazy, though!! We’re supposed to recheck his Fructosamine level in one month to see if it was a timing thing or if he really does run high. We also started an oral antibiotic just to prevent GI stasis. I also went in and learned how to give him the SQ fluids (I’m a nurse, so I’m comfortable doing it), so that we wouldn’t have to run to the vet and spend so much money each time it happened. I could try everything at home first, and if he didn’t respond then take him in. It made me feel more comfortable – like there was actually something I could DO to try and help him.

        Well tonight he wasn’t eating and was listless. So, I got him warmed up and gave him fluids, tried the Critical Care diet but he wasn’t really wanting any. He perked up about two hours after giving the fluids, so I felt more at ease. Then, I found a worm in his poop. What the heck is going on with this poor guy?! And WHY does he keep “crashing” on me!?!?! I get so worked up and concerned about the very worst each and every time. Does anyone have any suggestions or similar experiences that will give me some hope to go off of?! I really need a pick-me-up with my bunny right now. :-/

        **NOTE: I did “collect” the sample that the worm was in and will be taking it to the vet on Monday morning for a better examination and hopefully some more answers.


      • TaraMichele
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           aww so sorry to hear about the loss of your first rabbit and the tough situation youre going through but it sounds like youre doing a great job and really keeping on top of things… at least worms are usually an pretty easy fix.. I wish I had any advice to offer but Goodluck with everything and I hope your bunny feels better soon!


        • BinkyBunny
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             worms/parasites can explain gi tract issues too.    Antibiotics can also cause some tummy upset in some bunnies as well.  So it’ can be tricky.   Was the antibiotic given FOR stomach upset, or was the vet thinking something else was going on — some sort of illness or bacterial infection somewhere?  ( gi stasis can be a symptom of that just because when  a bunny is stressed or ill, it can cause an imbalance of bacteria in the gi tract but it’s not as common to give an antibiotic for gi stasis itself. .

            This is a really good article, and please scroll down to the section too about using antibiotics FOR a gi issue, as I encourage you to discuss this with your vet. 

            http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html  (Don’t let the title freak you out.  Pretty much everyone has had a bunny that has experienced gi troubles at LEAST once and it worked out just fine with good care. 

            EDITED TO ADD:  I was so focused on giving you advice, that when I saw Tara’s post, i realized I did not offer my condolences for your other bunny.  I am sorry for your loss and I know this must be really scary for you now especially because of what you went through.  

             


          • LoveChaCha
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              I don’t think that your rabbit keeps crashing on you. Rabbits depend on us humans for their health and assurance. I”m sorry that he is going through this


            • Sarita
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                So sorry about your first rabbit, my condolences.

                From what I understand, diabetes is rare in rabbits and the only way you can control it is through diet.

                I would say if you have all the tests done and still don’t have an answer, consider seeking a second opinion. Hopefully the stool sample will have some answers as well.


              • konijn82
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                  Thanks everyone! It has been a really long and emotional two weeks, and some people just don’t get everything I am going through for him. Not only the financial aspects, but the emotional concerns, the sleepless nights because I want to make sure he’s still okay, etc. It definitely can take a toll on a person that has become paranoid by any and every little change with their bunny!!! 

                  BB - I am going to be taking the worms in for inspection Monday morning. Thank you for your advice, I will defnitely talk more to the vet about WHY he is on antibiotics, as all she said was “to prevent GI stasis.” I’ll be sure to mention the article to the vet, as well.

                  I also failed to mention in my original post that I am taking him to a different vet than usual. His vet was in surgery all day the first time I wanted to take him in, so I have been using the same vet that the shelter I got him from uses. They have been WONDERFUL, have answered all my questions, and have not once seemed upset or annoyed at the fact that I am consulting my regular vet and bringing back ideas from her to them. They listen to everything I say and tell me why they disagree, or have even had a few things that they told me they hadn’t thought about and would look into. I’m really happy with both vets and how great they have been! 

                  I am really hoping that we just need to use a different antibiotic to kick this parasite – that’s what I’ve read online, anyway. And maybe that will take my little guy back to his normal, fiesty self.


                • KatnipCrzy
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                    You can take the worm in- but you should also take a fresh stool sample in also. Some parasites are not visible to the eye and by checking the stool sample- they are checking for eggs of the parasites which are found in the stool. So it would be best to take both. It IS possible for a bunny to have a visible worm- like a pinworm which needs an antiparasitic (not an antibiotic) and also coccidia which needs a certain type of antibiotic.
                    Unfortunately it is not uncommon at all for bunnies to have intestinal parasites as they can be difficult for breeders (good and bad) to eliminate from the environment in a rabbitry. BUT completely possible to eliminate in a house pet following the steps recommended by your vet to prevent recontamination depending on what parasite or parasites.
                    My English Lop, Griffin, had coccidia when I got him. Had a stool sample checked, was positive, treated with Albon (prescription med) rechecked s amount of weeks after treatment, negative- all cleared up.


                  • konijn82
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                      I can’t believe it – Cooper has FINALLY gone over one whole week without having to go to the vet or get fluids subcutaneously!!!!! I am SO happy!!!

                      Thanks, KatnipCrzy! I got your message in time to get a fresh stool sample and take it in with me, and it’s exactly what the vet wanted. They didn’t find any eggs, but since I had the worms, they went ahead and gave us an anti-parasitic. They said it’s very likely that he got it from the hay. I have since switched from the Kaytee brand back to Oxbow (which is what I had used with my previous bunny).
                      I also had to get some eye ointment as his eye is still not healing. They want to do a dye on it to see if there is a scratch, and while I know it is really important to find out, I just can’t do it right now financially. It’s so hard for me to stave off medical help for him, but with everything else he’s been through, and the upcoming dental exam they want to do (that’s going to be close to $200), I just don’t have the means right now. It doesn’t seem to be hindering him, and he’s okay with the ointment, so for now we’re sticking with that.
                      The new diet seems to be going pretty well, actually. I am impressed at how well he is taking it. At first, I could tell he was mad and would sulk when I didn’t give him treats – I really do think he was refusing his hay because of it! But we do a green veggie treat at night, 1-2 tablespoons of pellets in the morning, all the OXBOW hay that he wants, and plenty of fresh, cool water.

                      We are officially done with the antibiotic, end the ointment treatment this week, and take the last anti-parasitic dosing this weekend. We’ll see how things go after all the meds are finally done and over with. Hopefully, I’ll have my happy little guy back to normal!!!


                    • konijn82
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                        (I was going to try and post pictures of his eye, but the site isn’t allowing me to upload any pictures – thus the lack of an avatar picture as well. :-/)


                      • Kokaneeandkahlua
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                          I’m so sorry for your loss but that’s wonderful he’s doing so well now and one whole week with no issues!! I agree-the parasites could really have been what was causing him to go into distress in the first place. In addition to giving that medication I would change the litter box every day or more often if you can and bleach it out each time. Many parasites are inhaled so if you can get the poopies out right away that would likely help.
                          Can they not give you an eyedrop without the dye test? My Noot had an eye ulcer-two dye tests-one to say ‘oh yes it’s an ulcer, here are drops’ and another to say ‘oh yes it’s cleared up’-but imho likely not necessary if they think it’s scratched they may just be able to give you the drops at any rate. They are also a can’t hurt might help type thing, and often around $10, so that might be doable depending on how your bills are going after so much emergency care.

                          You can use photobucket.com (That’s what I use-free and easy!) to post pictures-you just copy and paste strait from photobucket


                        • KatnipCrzy
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                            They can give meds without staining the eye- but they will be an antibiotic type med with NO steroid/cortisone or dex. If you use an eye drop with steroids in an eye with an ulcer or scratch it actually inhibits the healing of the scratch or ulcer which is of course bad. So going with a more general eye drop could treat the eye- but not as effectively possibly.
                            For example- my kitten Melody is about 6 months old now. When I got her from the rescue she had an eye issue- her eye was even sewn closed at the time of spay to allow for better healing. I used antibiotic type eye drops on her thru the small gap in the lid and for a couple of weeks after the suture was removed. It never really got 100% and actually started to get worse- she was holding it more closed and with more frequency. So I took her into my vet- they stained the eye to make sure there was NO ulcer/scratch- and when that was clear they were able to prescribe a Neo/Poly/Dex eye drop- AB with steroid. An IMMEDIATE difference when switching drops- the steroid in the eye drop is able to address the issue of swelling and discomfort topically where the other eye drops could not. Best of all (sorry for you non US members)- Neo Poly Dex drops are on the $4 Target or WalMart med list and that list is VALID for pets. But so was her previous prescription of Tobramycin.

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                        FORUM HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Pre-Diabetes AND Worms in Stool?!