Oh, and another PS… since Pip entered the xpen, Mimz has been furiously rearranging the cardboard box (i.e. chewing the crap out of it) so I think he’s gotten his exercise for the day! ^_^

So far it’s been a good day for them. The only disputes seem to be for grooms/humps or that Pip has no intention of letting Mimz near the food, water or toilet.
When I get the bigger pen back in here, they’ll have two of everything so they can’t complain.
I’ll be putting them both to bed here in about an hour or so. Mimz looks exhausted, but it’s been warm here today too, so….
I hope they don’t make fusses about being in their night pens by themselves now.

Thanks ladies!
I really thought for sure it would be a disaster. But now I am sad simply for having to separate them to their night habs. Mimzy is put away, (he hardly fought me, which was startling, had to be sure he wasn’t hurt, but he gave me a good kick to the chest on the way back in) and of course he looks unhappy again. I’m thinking he’s going to wear that grumpy look forever…you know how mum says if you keep making that face it’ll freeze that way? Well, his did.
Pip is still in the xpen, she was having too much fun tearing things up and Mimz had a little extra time in there this morning. I’ll be settling her in to her own hab in about 15 minutes.

Both have dribbled urine. I’m thinking in Pip’s case it’s some kind of infection or her weight. Mimz has to be his worsening rear end. They’re a perfect match for one another…after all this time.
They sure like to pinch one another. I saw a lot of nips, but so far no blood or broken skin that I can see. That’s something.

Poor Fiver. I guess he’s going to need some one on one with Mum. I think he was looking forward to being Mimzy’s buddy, but now I am not sure if I’ll be able to manage it. Pip is pretty jealous of Mimz, he definitely let her know he wasn’t giving up boss bun status that easy and was chasing her a bit tonight. I mostly worry with her size she will crush his back legs, which are in sorry shape. And if I did put Fiver in with them, would they all fight if Mimz tried to protect him from Pip, or would he warn him away from her?
Augh…it’s never easy. And I’m going way ahead of myself. But I just want them all happy.

I don’t think Fiver will bond to Jenna. 0_o

We’ll see how round 2 goes tomorrow. ‘Nite everyone!

We’ve had a really chilly day today. Yesterday was beautiful enough I’d wanted to spend it all outside…today, lots of rain. You can tell Mimz is creaky. Gave him his metacam first thing again, poor baby. I hope Pip didn’t beat the snot out of him yesterday, I wouldn’t want him getting repeatedly whomped on and subsequently stressed.
I didn’t realize how out of shape MY muscles were…from getting in and out of the xpen and lifting and putting the buns down and moving/cleaning stuff, etc. I am one sore puppy!

Will definitely have to go back to the old, heavy clunky xpen. (Ow.) This one is way too flimsy (the one I made from NIC cubes). Pip could easily topple it and then…uh-oh…bunny escape! 0_o
It does fine for Mimz by himself because he’s a lump. Fiver will enjoy it, no doubt.

I have a question…I notice Pip would see me coming or hear my voice, and would suddenly run over and shove her head under Mimzy, obviously looking for protection. Now I always come in quietly, don’t hover or reach with my ‘claws’ or anything…perhaps this is why she’s been stinking up the bunny room? Could she actually be afraid of me and if so, I can’t imagine what I did to cause this? I have never mistreated her…NEVER. Why would she suddenly be so terrified of me? I take good care of her, I don’t understand why, if she’s half the diva she thinks she is, she wouldn’t be coming at me with fangs bared instead of running to him for help? (Which he doesn’t really provide much of, he just sits there like, “I’m was sleeping…what’d you wake me for?”)
Nobody else causes this reaction in her. Why me? I’m Mom.

Okay bit of a setback tonight. I just heard some humping going on from across the room, by the time I got to the pen I saw Mimzy chasing poor Pip around the pen. Not fast or anything, just insistent. He would try to climb on her a few times, I would push him off…then she turned and got on his head a few times. By the time I separated them, there were a few tufts of fur on the floor. Not sure, but I think they’re Pip’s.
So, yup. Not cemented at all. I put Pip back in her night hab and Mimzy is getting the last of his cranky out in the xpen. I knew they wouldn’t be perfect right off the bat. But I hadn’t expected fur pulling.

I checked her to be sure she is okay. No sign of anything hurt. I think she was happy to go back to her bed though.

I wonder…should I continue to try to cement them? Or should I try introducing Fiver to one of them? I realize one fur pulling incident isn’t total disaster, I’m just wondering.

Posted By LittlePuffyTail on 08/05/2011 04:49 AM
What is your set-up like? Are Mimzy and Pip living near each other?

I’m sorry LPT, I keep meaning to address your posts and it goes right out of my addled head. And you of all people deserve a response as you’re struggling with much the same issues as I. Too much to think about this week I guess has me lost to common sense. So here I go. I hope my next ramblings will give you some hope for your three…or at least a good example of what not to do in some cases…lol.

It goes like this….get ready for a bit of a rant everyone….I have needed to vent my spleen on this situation for awhile and I’m going to say too much most likely. (Even though I hate talking about this because it makes me out to be a rather crappy bunny mum compared to everyone else here. Hence why I am not the one doling out advice. May as well finally get it off my chest….)

And I’m assuming you mean what my longtime setup has been, not the current xpen setup, which is just the simple stacked 2 panel by stacked three panel NIC grid pen in the kitchen. The old pen was too heavy and cumbersome to move/clean. I got to the point I didn’t even want to set it up anymore. Ironically now I may have to bring it back in the house to keep Pip contained safely. She’s quite the behemoth.

The living arrangments for the three have thusfar been in three separate cages in my (tiny) bedroom. Pip’s is stacked atop Mimzy’s on my long dresser (that I can’t use due to storage boxes butted up against it) and then there’s a small aisle and my bed, Fiver’s pen is next to that on more storage boxes so he is level with the bed. He can get to it easily without me having to pull him out manually like the other two, and he often runs about on it then collapses in a heap at the door of his pen for quick getaways or pottys-he’s never messed the bed, but watches me while he catnaps. He has never left the room without assistance although I see him trying to look down the aisle at the doorway from time to time.

Jenna’s introduction into the bedroom has caused all of them, Fiver in particular, to be somewhat wary about the bed area. She doesn’t bother them at all, but they can smell her since she sleeps there. So I have to have my daughter hold her in another room for any of them to be on the bed now. It’s frustrating and time consuming. Jenna becomes extremely needy often and whines to see me, so my daughter brings her in to show her I haven’t disappeared and this sets the bunnies off which ruins everything.

The other two take turns both being on my bed while Fiver is contained (if I need to do monthly maintenance, it’s best done on the bed on puppy pads) and then I take them to the kitchen right off my bedroom for the xpen time. It’s not far to go, but I have to carry them. There’s no navigating the linoleum for bunny feets.

Up till now it’s pretty much been trying to cycle one of them out per day, albeit never for long enough, and sadly-not regularly by half. (It is mortifying and embarrassing  to admit it, but there it is-hence why if this rebond takes it’ll be quite the huzzah around here.) If it isn’t Mimzy being almost constantly ill, and therefore I thought a hazard to the other two… it may have been hubby stumbling around with his bad back and instability, or too much mess, or my cats terrorizing the poor bunnies…or just worthless me who was either too tired, too achy or just too damn lazy to keep a schedule. There, I’ve said it. Throw your tomatoes and rightly so! I suck!!

Pip is hardest to get down from her higher level pen, although she is probably the easiest to carry anywhere. There is no way to allow her or Mimzy free egress from their pens. They must be hauled out and carried. Since I rot when it comes to proper bunny handling, this has been the cause of many a setback for me. It doesn’t help that no bunny likes to be held, and my three are no exceptions.

There have been days I could manage more than one at a time, but not all three and not together with the exception of when I was trying to introduce Fiver and Mimzy recently. This has weighed heavily on me for some time, please forgive me for unloading it here, but it helps to make sense of the whole ‘fear of bonding’ thing with me. I attribute Mimzy’s general poor health to lack of movement and no companionship to speak of (unless you count me.) Pip is a sturdy girl and seems to have been unaffected for the most part from stilted run times, though I think she could stand to lose a bit of weight. (She’s always been the biggest and heaviest. Part meat rabbit, poor thing.) Fiver is a ball of energy and can go at a moment’s notice, but I think a lot of his stasis episodes are in part due to not enough time out. The rest has been diet. He is also extremely hard to handle due to his former bad life experience with naughty little boys.

That will all change if M & P re-bond. I’d be over the moon if I could get all three in one spot…no more lonesome bunnies, less to clean up (maybe) and less guilt for me that someone isn’t getting needed exercise each day. I’ve done what I thought was the best I could for them up till now.  But recent revelations have convinced me I can do more. I only hope it’s not too late.

So to wrap up…in a sense, they’ve all been ‘living together’…just in separate habitats. Although Mimzy and Pip can’t ‘see’ each other from their respective pens, they can certainly smell one another and Fiver too, whom they can probably both get a sense of where he is even if not a perfect view. (I know they must be nearsighted.) I am now wondering if the skunky smells and urinating on the hab floors have been the two bunnies trying to send each other messages!

It’s been 4 years of very cramped conditions and a lot of work for me. And I’m getting too old for all this ‘acrobatics’ work. I’m hoping to switch rooms with my daughter (I used to have the larger one before the bunnies came, but we thought she needed it back then…now it would be nice to have it back) and then I can make a spot for their permanent xpen/enclosed habitat that they can all live together SAFELY in…provided I get them all bonded. If not I will make other arrangements for their complete comfort. Either way, it will be more space than we have currently. Enough to give everyone more time out at the least…and more ‘other bunny’ companionship at best.

Since Mimz & Pip seem to be dealing with some incontinence issues (Fiver’s habits are still pristine)…and I expect the cats to be around for a while longer, and the stumbling hubby, I doubt they will ever be free range. But I’ll give them the most room to romp together that I can for as long as they are with me.

And yes, you may have noticed in my description, each of us humans has our own room for different and personal reasons that I won’t elaborate upon further here. Due to the unfinished nature of some of the inside of our house, it’s overall rather odd and restrictive design and other medical concerns on the part of my hubby, it is paramount that the bunnies spend most of their time in my personal living quarters. It is the safest and most comfortable for all involved.

Okay…enough of my gassbagging. I’ve spent hours proofreading/blogging this. Hopefully it makes sense. And I hope you’re all still speaking to me come tomorrow. (covers eyes and presses submit)

Pip was doing more humping day one…Mimzy day two.
And the fur pulling…not to mention the grooming…I think it may be causing him some difficulty. He’s making rather smallish poos today and seems uncomfortable. He just ate quite a bit of willow leaf and had some metacam and the dilute last of my old bottle of simethicone. I syringed a bit of water also. He just isn’t eating his hay that much (Pip won’t let him near it, I have to put some by him, then she sneaks over and eats it before he can get to it.)
Most of the stuff I have here is not that high a quality. The hay is all brittle and brownish. What happened to our crops this year?

He’s been doing the smaller poos a bit since before the bonding though, so I am still wondering if he’s got some carefresh bedding stuck somewhere. Just made a cup of that Tummy Tea BB is selling and will try to get it into him over the course of the day.
Fiver had me up early chewing his litter box. I am not sure if he was trying to tell me Mimzy is not feeling well. He just would not let me sleep though and I only got 3 hours last night. That is the one drawback to having them in your bedroom.

The reason I got to cemented so fast in my mind is that they both looked like they picked right up from where we left off three years ago. It was uncanny.

Anyway, he seems a bit stressed today, so maybe we’ll limit or take a break for today. I want him healthy first. His immune system impresses me as being in a constant state of shock.

Pip never used to be wary of me. Didn’t like me at first, but my daughter is always jealous of how I can give her nose rubs and she can’t…and Pip was HER bunny first!
So yeah…maybe both of them just aren’t feeling tip top.

Our wild forage (hayseed/long grass, dandelions, plantain/ribwort) has been slowly deteriorating as the weather is going colder. We were supposed to have a mild frost last night. Winter is breathing down my neck and I haven’t gotten anything dried for the bunnies from our yard. I am not even sure the quality of the wild food is up to par, it’s losing it’s chlorophyll and color so quickly. What the bugs haven’t gotten to, that is.

So yeah. Going to take the usual amount of time to get them together, but I feel we have this weird kind of head start.

Posted By RabbitPam on 08/06/2011 02:41 PM
Hi, MM,
I just caught up with your beginning the bond on the 4th (I didn’t get on the site that day I think) and want to say YEA!!!!!

         Thanks, hon. Yeah, I know…it’s about darned time, right? lol

Bear in mind that Mimzy doesn’t feel well often, and Pip is skittish, so it’s not surprising that they will have tufts and squabbles. It does sound like they are very glad to be together.

           That’s what surprised me, they really have gotten along very well the last two days despite his handicaps. (I saw her go right to his bad hock and sniff it quite a few times and thought…here it comes, she’s going to tear him to pieces because he’s ‘defective’…but I told her to be nice to him because he doesn’t feel well and is now delicate. I think it worked!)

           I totally expected fur flying in a whirlwind by both of them from the off. Yesterday they weren’t out as long as they were the first day, so I don’t know if that played a factor. Plus we used that new willow tent (something they do remember) instead of the Sanrio box, so things were chagned up item-wise.The grass mats keep getting peed and pooped on and I have to keep sweeping up so they don’t get a chance to start claiming this spot or that one. But I did see them puddled together a few times and I really think they will get there and be happy when they arrive.

            It’s Fiver who’s the nervous one…Pip is really pretty laid back. She just likes her ducks in a row is all.

My suggestion would be to go quite slowly, with supervised times together so you can break up any serious stuff, but they seem like they won’t get any worse than what you’ve seen so far. I just would do shorter visits and not alone without you yet.

           Absolutely. No question.

Maybe Pip is acting scared of you to make Mimzy be more needed and bonded. She knows you’re Mom, but she wants him to learn to take care of her in case you’re a monster so it’s good practice to run to him when you come in. In other words, don’t take it personally.

            A monster? Me? Oh really now…she has me so bunny whipped it’s got to set a divatude record somewhere.Besides, I really think the hairbuster may have played a part. She was getting tired of me grooming her with it as I am rather unskilled.

I think that this is helping Mimzy a lot, rather than just feeling under the weather and being alone. When he’s off his meds and feeling a bit better, he may be more friendly most of the time to Pip.

           He’s actually quite glad to see her but I have kept him on metacam because, like me, he’s suddenly using muscles he didn’t know he had, again. I think both of us were going to bed that first night thinking, “Ow…what’s that? OW! Where’d THAT come from? Oh man…my back is going out more than I do! Medic! etc…” 

            Plus I believe he wants to wear the pants this time around. We’ll see who does wind up with them…and hope that they’re not ‘The Wrong Trousers!’

Fiver said not to worry: he’s ordered a mail order bride from LA.

             Oh no. A Californian? But what about the height difference? Couldn’t he have chosen a Nethie?

Oh I certainly hope so, Pam. ^_^ Honestly, we’ve been off the sessions for a few days and you can see they miss one another. Pip has begun peeing in her hay again. >.< He just looks glum…but heck, he ALWAYS looks like that.

I posted mostly about this in the Smallish Poos thread, but Mimz will be seen by Dr. H. on Thursday (we’ll take Pip along for company…first time like this!) because he still isn’t eating quite right and is doing some other strange things that I’d like looked into. She can look them both over for me and we should have a few more sessions under our belts by then. Here’s the link since I’m too tired to copy and paste….sorry.
https://binkybunny.com/tabid/54/aft/116762/Default.aspx
Pippi needs a nail trim. 0_o I fear she is going to put one of Mimzy’s eyes out. Or one of mine at the least.

I love that Sammy comforts you! Only my cats and dog do that for me. (Well, my daughter does too, but that’s not the point.) In fact, my hubby was trying to reset my back for me the other day and I was saying “ow” so many times that Jenna, who was on my daughter’s lap at the time, was going nuts trying to get to me. Lucky for him she couldn’t! xD He might’ve gotten his ankles chewed.

Mimzy did have a day out to himself the other day since I didn’t want him cooped up, but also didn’t want them pulling more fur, but he still just sits there…doesn’t do anything…well…except pee all over the grass mats. I was disappointed. I even had the tent set up so he didn’t have to expose himself (no comments from the peanut gallery) to ‘predators’ on the way to the litter pan, but he just soaked the darned mat. Very frustrating. Territorial poos (or at least ones he was too lazy to put in the box) were everywhere, but at the time they were kind of tiny due to all the fur he’d swallowed. He’s doing much better today, but still not eating well. Something definitely going on with his mouth again. And if he’s hurting, that may explain why he was nipping at Pip so much when he normally doesn’t.