Oats forever?

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This topic has 21sd replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 10 months ago by Sonn.

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04/18/2011 at 7:29 PM
Sonn
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1810 posts
Some of you know Dini has issues with mushy and overproducing cecals. He has been to the vet multiple times but she can not seem to find anything wrong or a reason for them. He eats Oxbow Bunny basics T or Oxbow Essentials Adult as it is called now. And he always has fresh water and timothy hay available.

He cannot have unlimited pellets or he will produce so many I can’t count them so he gets 1/8 cup in the am and 1/8 cup in the PM. If he is given straight pellets he overproduces and they gets a super messy bum. He does well with hay as long as it isn’t alfalfa he can eat any type of hay. He is 12-13 weeks old now (supposedly lol) and the vet wanted to give veggies a go… That didn’t end well at all, he ate 1 piece of cilantro without rolled oats and it was a complete mess the next morning.

He has healthy teeth and has healthy normal poops (lots of them). And he has been tested for everything under the sun. But he can’t seem to eat anything without oats added to it.

So the vet has said he may need to have them added to his food for the rest of his life. I have read that oats are extremely fattening for buns. He is not overweight right now he is just now reaching normal weight.

Can he be on oats in his food forever and not become the bunny version of The Blob?
04/18/2011 at 9:25 PM
jerseygirl
Moderator
22356 posts
If you were to limit other carbs in his diet it would prob be ok. Oats do have some nutritional value also. They are meant to help firm up messy poop (which is great!) but they don’t really treat the cause I guess. Could he go off pellets and have a substitute like criti care or something similar? I know – expensive!
TimTim is simliar age and he seems to prefer hay over pellets. So this is a rabbit I could easily have on a hay/veg diet. But he’s so lean, it make me nervous to consider zero pellets.

I just learnt yesterday pumpkin contains pectin which helps absorb toxins and expel them. Oats have this absorption ability too so I wonder if this is partly why they help with messy poop? Of course, rabbit nutrition is different to ours but it just made me curious… The soluble fibers do this, not the undigestible fiber like from hay. That type has more scouring-like benefits.
04/19/2011 at 6:09 AM
Sarita
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18851 posts
Oats are a carbohydrate and they are high in fiber but they aren’t something you should feed regularly – do they “dry” up poops – I don’t think they really dry up anything, if anything it’s the fiber in them that’s helping.

I think it’s very premature of the vet to say at this point that he would need to be on oats the rest of his life – it’s not really a normal part of a rabbits diet. If anything you will want to cut out pellets which are probably more the culprit of the overproduction of cecals.
04/19/2011 at 7:57 AM
Sonn
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1810 posts
He doesn’t get anything other than hay and pellets. I am attempting to introduce him to vegetables but it isn’t going very well. So far the only thing that has made it completely stop is when he was on a hay only diet but I am sure that probably isn’t the best diet just hay.

I will likely take him to a new vet for a second opinion as to why he is overproducing them.
04/19/2011 at 8:07 AM
Sarita
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18851 posts
That’s probably a good idea to get a second opinion.
04/19/2011 at 12:58 PM
Sonn
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1810 posts
I made the appt. for tomorrow morning hopefully someone can tell me something to do lol. Poor lil’ dude.
04/19/2011 at 5:27 PM
KatnipCrzy
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2981 posts
Hvae you tried Dini on a probiotic? I wonder if his gut never developed the flora as it should have being taken away from Mom to early and stresses associated with that.
04/20/2011 at 12:26 AM
Sonn
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1810 posts
I tried bene-bac with him it seemed to help a little but not a substantial amount.

I am hoping this vet can help me figure something out especially since it is a 2 hour drive to get there.

04/20/2011 at 12:31 PM

Sonn

Participant

1810 posts

Took Dini to a vet that is almost 2 hours away who is supposed to be really great.

He ran some tests and did an overall check. All of the tests will take a couple of days but the overall check he is normal and healthy.

He suggested I switch to a higher fiber and less protein pellet. I feed Oxbow Essentials and can’t find anything with better ‘levels’ of protein and fiber. He wants me to try to introduce vegetables again but wants to start with something like Parsley or Romaine first. And extremely small amounts.

He is back on a hay/water only diet for a few days to get things back on track.

Not really sure if this vet is any better than my regular vet. He kept pushing Oxbow Organics on me which I am used to due to my dogs vet trying to push Science Diet on me. But I really don’t see a difference between the Organic and the ‘Essentials’ other than the organic has less protien by 2% but also has less fiber.

Essentials:

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein	14.00% min
Crude Fat	1.50% min
Crude Fiber	25.00% min
Crude Fiber	29.00% max
Moisture	10.00% (max)
Calcium	0.35% (min)
Phosphorus	0.25% (min)
Salt	0.50% (min)
Salt	1.00% (max)
Vitamin A	20,000 IU/kg
Vitamin D	880 IU/kg
Vitamin E	140 IU/kg
Copper	20 mg/kg

Organic:

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein	12.00% min
Crude Fat	2.00% min
Crude Fiber	23.00% min
Crude Fiber	25.00% max
Moisture	12.00% max

Vitamins/Minerals
Calcium	0.60% min	Calcium	0.90% min
Phosphorus	0.30% max	Vitamin A	19,000 IU/kg
Vitamin D	900 IU/kg	Vitamin E	190 IU/kg
Copper	25 IU/kg

So basically still stuck lol.

04/20/2011 at 12:40 PM
Sarita
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18851 posts
What kind of tests?
04/20/2011 at 2:02 PM
Sonn
Participant
1810 posts
He took fecal and urine samples along with nasal swabs and drew blood. Not everything is listed on this paper but Coccidiosis, Clostridium , Pasteurella (not sure why), Colibacillosis, Pin Worms, Tape Worm, Enteritis and Enterotoxemia then it says “More tests will be performed as needed” at the bottom of the paper.

While we were there he was checked for tooth spurs

I started reading about some of these when I got home and to me it doesn’t make since as to why some are being ran. I am not a vet but I don’t see how they tie in with his ‘symptoms’. He doesn’t have diarrhea or a loss of appetite. I mean according to the web Colibacillosis is E.Coli???

I have never heard of most of those things but found a few webpages about them and some of them are pretty scary but also don’t even remotely fit what is happening.
04/20/2011 at 2:06 PM
Sarita
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18851 posts
I think those are pretty standard which is why they are all listed. They usually test for a variety of common concerns.
04/20/2011 at 2:14 PM
Sonn
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1810 posts
Ah ok that would make sense. I have never had a vet give me a paper that has what they are testing for listed.
04/20/2011 at 5:53 PM
Lintini
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3329 posts
I don’t really have any good advice to give you Sonn other than a request for more photos of Dini plzzzzzzzzz *begs*
04/21/2011 at 10:52 AM
Sonn
Participant
1810 posts
I will get some new pics soon lol.

Gave Dini a piece of Parsley this morning so cross your fingers that there isn’t a giant mess to clean up later.
04/21/2011 at 11:55 AM
Lintini
Participant
3329 posts
hooraaaaaay!!!! I just love that fuzzball!

I remember when Bumblez was a baby her tummy was sensitive too, I had to wait a few months before greens, she always had cecals mooshed about and the scoots if I tried any greens. Gosh those smell so BAD.
04/21/2011 at 8:18 PM
Jolean
Participant
2 posts
Rabbits do not digest their food. Make sure Dini only gets fiber and no starches. My vet is a rabbit expert. He wanted my rabbit, Winda, on some plain pellet food, a lot of veggies and unlimited timothy hay. She had chronic eye infections. The only thing that cured her was removing the pellets from her diet. He is still learning through her. The meds he had her on made it worse. He agreed that the veggies was the thing that helped. Dini may very well be missing good digestive bacteria.
04/21/2011 at 8:28 PM
LoveChaCha
Participant
6634 posts
Rabbits do digest their food.. if they didn’t, they wouldn’t be living creatures.

Fiber is good for their belly, and keeps them full (well, I believe rabbits are always hungry).

Yes, more DINI pics please.. little fur ball.
Chacha and I send get well vibes and for a diagnosis!
04/22/2011 at 12:51 PM
Sonn
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1810 posts
Parsley was a disaster! Think the greens are going to have to wait.

Supposed to find out if anything came back on Monday.
04/22/2011 at 1:35 PM
jerseygirl
Moderator
22356 posts
Maybe try greens very slowly after he’s been on only hay. It could take weeks to introduce foods.

LoveChaCha, I *think* Jolean could have been meaning that most of their diet is indigestable (i.e.hay) which is true. As for pellets, most of that is digestable and can cause problems in some rabbits.
04/22/2011 at 1:41 PM
Sonn
Participant
1810 posts
That’s the plan. I am going to wait until everything has settled and he is no longer producing so many before trying again.
04/27/2011 at 5:59 PM
Sonn
Participant
1810 posts
All of the tests have come back normal. It was late for some reason but yeah everything is normal.

But we are going back to my regular vet tomorrow he has developed some kind of weird lump in his side nothing about him has changed he is still eating, pooping, drinking water, running around everything the cecals are down to just 2 or so left in the mornings.

Don’t know what it is but it’s hard moves around inside and he doesn’t notice when I touch it.

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