Why can’t Belle be put in a pen during the day? You say that she wouldn’t be happy, but I can’t help but think that a good size pen of 4’x8′ or something would be plenty for her. Once she’s in a smaller area that isn’t covered in carpet, I hope she’d stop peeing so much.

I would honestly be upset if my bunnies peed all over the place, but I’m sure you can find a solution where she isn’t out all the time and she can mostly live on an easy to clean floor. You can still let them out on carpet for parts of the day, but only when you’re there to supervise and stop her if she starts peeing.

First off, is Belle even spayed? Secondly, have you bonded Belle and Romeo? Because these two things make a HUGE difference in their potty habits.

If you haven’t bonded them, Belle is peeing all over the place as a way to mark her territory. Likewise, Romeo is doing the same when he’s out. Same with the pooping.

You could always do what I did. I bought a cheap 8×4 area rug to put down as the flooring for the pen area. That way the rug would be the first thing ruined.

How long ago did you get Belle? It seems like she is being very territorial.

I have a 3 story condo, on the bottom is a plastic mat that sticks a little to the ground, and a towel over it. It works really well.

What kind of solution are you looking for Bella bun?

I apologize. I saw that she was spayed after I had posted.

For me, I think I replaced Eddie’s first area rug maybe 2 years after I got him and it. It was absolutely gross by then. I still have the rug Lolli used when I first got her at my dad’s. And that leaves the one I’m using now. There are also eco-friendly ones you can get too. I just suggested it as it’s what I did with mine to protect my carpeting as I’m renting.

Well really, the only way to get her to have better habits is by restricting her space. I know this is not an option, but just putting that out there.

If she isn’t litter trained, the only way you can really train her again is by reducing her space (so putting her in a pen) and making sure she’s trained in that space first.

Whenever she goes to the bathroom outside of her litter box, you should soak up her pee with paper towels and pick up her poops and put both (the wet paper towels and poops) in her litter box, so she can understand where they go.

You should do a search in the forum for litter training and read through some posts. Have you trained her before and she lost her habits or you just thought she’d automatically pick it up?

Can two bunnies be bonded anyways when one is free range and the other lives caged/penned? I have no idea, just asking the experts. I thought part of the bond was that the rabbits share living space.

The poop is the lesser issue. The pee is the real one. To litter train her for the pee, you have to restrict her space.

If you think about it in terms of whether it would be worse for belle to be penned with limited play time, or whether it would be worse for her to have to leave her home and be separated from you and Romeo, it seems to me penning her temporarily to work on her litter training would actually be a much better solution.

My concern, though I’m not an expert, is that since belle is out always while romeo is in his condo, she views the outsid as her territory even though they are bonded.

You could change your flooring to linoleum but you’ll still have to mop up every day, so why not make some temporary changes now to her living arrangements in order to truly fix the problem and not have to clean up as often.

You could build them a condo, and put the pellets and veggies on a high shelf once belle is finished with them, so only Romeo will jump up and eat them during the day.

Separate or together she needs to have her space restricted or you’ll never get past the pee issue. Once she’s litter trained you can give her space again. You might still need to change the carpet to new carpet or something else because if you don’t clean the pee smell away quickly and thoroughly, she’ll pee on it again if she can smell her scent on it.

When she pooped 100 poops in her cage when she was still caged, did you pick them all up and put them in her litter box?

What litter do you use and where do you put her hay? In a hay rack? She should have a big enough litter box that there’s room for her and a pile of hay.

I put litter in the back of my litter box where he usually pees, and then a handful of hay at the front. So my rabbit can have his butt in the corner he pees in and his face by the hay. They go to the bathroom while eating hay so you should only put hay in the litter box. Or yeah as michelle said in a hay rack above it.

Then maybe she’s doesn’t like the litter that is being used. Some rabbits prefer some litters over others. Does she pee while she eats hay? If so, have you tried putting a hay rack above her litterbox to see if that would solve her pee issue?

When she was in the small commercial cage, did you have her litter only in the litterbox or also in the rest of the cage? If there was litter on the normal floor the cage as well that could have confused her.

What I would do for the condo flooring is use anything that is waterproof and easy to clean, even if it’s slippery. Then buy cheap 3 dollar towels at target all in the same color for easy washing, and out those on the floor over the waterproof flooring of the condo. Swap one out every day or so, store the soiled ones in a large airtight plastic container or something and wash them all together once or twice a week.

You might want to try carefresh as a litter or even just newspaper with hay over it. Just because she’d hop in the wood stove pellets to avoid the choroplast doesn’t mean she likes the wood stove pellets.

She might like the wood stove pellets better than the choroplast but still not want to stand on them if she has another option (i.e. Carpet)

What about her peeing, cause that is the real issue. If she’s peeing in 23 spots in your house that sounds either like she’s marking or like she’s not fully litter trained. The solution to both might be housing her with Romeo in a condo. Start the litter training from scratch with a new habitat, and see how it goes. If they have a larger area, it won’t be as bad for them to be closed during the day.

I didn’t read all of the posts on here, so if I missed something I’m sorry.  I just wanted to type something really quick before going to bed.  I’m not sure how old Belle is but I’m not sure if the age matters or not.  I had the same problem with my Gracie.  She wasn’t going in the litter box, constantly peeing outside of her litter box and on the carpet.  I was getting fed up and starting to get upset with her.  I called up my vet explaining everything.  She didn’t have to much of an idea and recommended a rabbit specialist a 1/2 hour away.  We took her to that vet and he diagnosed her with E. Cuniculli.  I must note that when she would start to run she would be dragging her legs because of EC.  She doesn’t have all the feeling in her back legs because of this and that is what is causing her to pee, she just doesn’t know she’s doing it.  She also poos a lot too.  She is currently on Metacam and Tramadol to help her.  It has helped her a lot but she does still occassionally pee.  But I am no longer upset because I know what is wrong with her.  She’s an older bun though, 5 or 6, but I’m not sure if it matters with EC.  My opinion to you is to talk to your vet, and tell them your concerns about this.  It might be territorial and it might be something completely different.  They might be able to figure out if she’s been spayed too.  I would think the shelter would be honest about this but you never know and you might be right.  Don’t give up on her just yet, call the vet and tell them about this.  If she does have a form of EC then maybe they can treat it before it gets too bad.  This is just a suggestion into what might cause a rabbit to pee all over like this since I experienced the same thing myself.  Hope this helps and I hope everything works out for you and the buns.  

If you get vinyl or linoleum it’s possible romeo will no longer want to run around. When he’s out, you can put large towels or blankets out for him to run on.

When I built Peppy her condo, I found this stuff at Home Depot to use on the flooring. You can buy it in pre-packaged rolls or cut how much of it you want from their big roll, paying by the foot. I don’t remember what it’s called, but it was near the vinyl section and used for people to put in their garage workshops, etc.

The “top” side of the flooring has these raised (about 2 mm?) ridges, but I was afraid that Peppy would gnaw on the rubbery material; plus, I thought the ridges might be too high for comfort if she stood on them a long time. The other side has some light texturing, so I opted to use it upside-down instead. I know the pictures aren’t super clear, but you can see how there’s some texture, so it’s not entirely slippery like wood floor or vinyl. My bunny has no problem getting traction on it. Because it’s plastic/rubber material, it’s very easy to clean – just wipe it down.

Assuming you cannot fix this problem, will you be giving both bunnies up to a hew home? If they are bonded, it would be in their best interest to keep them together. If separated, one or both could become very depressed.

I also want you to understand that if you find Belle a new home and say, “She poops and pees all over the floor, BUT she doesn’t like to be caged, so whatever you do, DON’T CAGE HER!!!” they are going to cage her anyways. People are not going to tolerate a rabbit going potty all over the house.

While many rabbits successfully littertrain, NOT ALL RABBITS DO. This is something that isn’t really discussed often; people think that all rabbits littertrain if spayed/neutered, but this is not always the case. Also, not all rabbits can be free range unsupervised. This is the ideal, but not always possible. In order to be free range a rabbit cannot be overly destructive and must be very well litter-trained. A couple dropped poops are okay, dozens of spots of pee is not. You seem to understand that Romeo cannot be free range, but it sounds to me that Belle cannot be free range either. At least not right now. The longer you allow her to potty all over, the more this becomes ingrained in her habits. You are not going to be able to completely get the odor out and so she will keep returning to these same areas again and again and again.

It would be better for her to be penned in a large pen: 2 xpens = 16 2-foot panels connected together in a square is 8×8 feet. This is almost the size of a room. If you give her this space with multiple litterboxes and allow her to mark, after a few weeks, this behavior should begin to decrease. Vinyl is not a solution. This material is thin and can be easily dug or chewed up.

I know you don’t want to limit her, but I don’t see you having any other option. You are the intelligent being, you are the one in charge. It’s your responsibility to make decisions of what is best for you, your home, and the rabbits. The best thing would be for you to keep them, but in order for that to happen, you need to think objectively about what will and will not work for YOU.

Everyone here has given you some wonderful suggestions. You seem somewhat resistant to trying different methods that could work or make the situation easier for you. What other ideas/suggestions are you looking for?

Posted By Taurus on 03/04/2011 09:34 PM
I talked with vet and took test on her for e. coli or any kind of test ( spend 200 dollars for all kind of test)

She dont have e. coli.

I’m not talking about E. Coli.  I’m talking about E. Cunniculi.  It’s a parasitic disease that rabbits can get that can show up later in life.  This is what my girl rabbit was exposed to before I got her and she didn’t show symptoms until years later.  She started peeing outside her litter box, on the carpet, and on herself.  This is a serious disease if not treated.  There unfortunately isn’t really a test for this.  You have to tell your vet the symptoms and ask if it could be E. Cunniculli and they will be the judge.  The treatment is antiinflamitory and pain meds.  Here is a site about it: http://www.petcarevb.com/wordpress/rabbits…n-rabbits/

There’s also Hind Limb Weekness http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/paresis.html

Taurus, from what you say it’s possible belle has some mobility issues that might be cause by e cunniculi or aomethig else. How long ago did she go to the vet last? Did you tell the vet about the symptoms you described to us? That she won’t hop onto things or in her litter box, that she doesn’t run around much, that sometimes it seems like she’s going to the bathroom and doesn’t realize it?

Could you find out which vets do the neutering for the organisation you got Belle from? Then approach that clinic to check for records of her spay?

I understand all too well your frustration in this. My rabbit girl Jersey has some peculiar litter habits and I’ve had a hard time trying to figure her out and remedy the problem. I actually understand why you allow her more freedom. Jersey is free range and her habits around the house are good, however, the designated rabbit area is where it is worst!   She views this whole area as a litterbox. I think as a pair now she maybe feels it’s her role to mark out the zone as theirs? It might have begun that way and now it’s just habit. The longest I ever kept them contained was 3 weeks. I don’t know, maybe I need to do even longer to crack this now long term habit of hers.  To be honest, she can mess the area in minutes the same as if she were shut in there for longer.  No difference, so I just allow them free range.  I felt bad when I kept them shut in when I tried litter retraining her but they seemed fine and after I allowed access back to other areas, they wanted to hang out where they’d spent the 3 weeks!

Anyway, it made me wonder perhaps that is what Belle is doing. Marking by the boxes in the shared rabbit/human area to show they are theirs?  I read on HRS site that rabbits can mark with poop like leaving a signature and “underline the signature” by peeing. What were her habits like before bonding with Romeo?

I do rather think Belle and Romeo would be better living together all the time – if you can find suitable flooring and sort out their feeding needs. Belles aversion to heights might work in your favour if you can make something like a feeding shelf for Romeo. I was also thinking of that rubber flooring like Peppy suggested. It can be pricey but you might be able to get remnants. I’ve used vinyl in a similar way as Peppy said, laying it upside down because the back was more non slip. I think another member has down this with those foyer mats, installing it upside down. If what ever you use is larger then the condo floor space, so the edges extend past the sides, would Romeo leave it alone then?

The marking may get worse before it improves but it might better define that is their area and she might not feel the need to mark outside of that. HOPEFULLY not mark so much in their area in time!

However, if you plan to keep Belle free roaming for the most part can you just put down protective flooring under the boxes if she is only marking beside them? Like plastic mats you put under office chairs, or towels or cotton rag rugs?

I want to ask what her hay eating is like. Would you say she is a good hay eater? Reason I ask this is again because of Jersey. She never took to eating hay – it has been very sporadic. She did a little when Rumball arrived because I think she was copying him. She also drank lots of water. I have since been giving her hay “cubes” (they are actually more like large horse pellets) and they have acted like hay in her diet. They have made her poop normal looking at last and I notice she is not drinking as much. That was surprising as I thought they’d make her drink more! I think it confirmed my suspicion that she might have been filling up on water because she was hungry. She had hay available but just would not eat it.  Now these cube things fill her and keep her occupied.
Sorry if all that does not relate to Belle. It’s just another thing you mentioned (the water) that seemed the same as Jersey.

Just want to add, if her peeing in living areas is effecting your health and causing this stress, you really do need to think about allowing her less space. You might feel horrible but in my experience my rabbits haven’t hated this. They’ve actually been more content and closer. Sure, mine can roam about the house when they want but mostly they choose to spend most of the time under a cardboard box. Too much space can seem overwhelming for some rabbits too!
I know it’s easy to think poop is a sign of her hate for a situation. I sometimes joked Jersey was spelling out messages. But I don’t think they can truly “hate”. Give confining them a go and watch closely as you may start to see signs that she is actually quite content in the smaller space with her buddy.

By the way, condos can be less easy to clean and you have to do a lot of that. A pen as Beka suggest might be best to start with.  If you don’t have one but have NIC grids, you can make a pen with them. For feeding you might have to put some sort of divider in so Romeo gets his fair share.

If you aren’t sure about her spay the vet can shave the hair there and see whether or not a scar is there.   If no scar there ws no spay.

A friend of mine has a wild bunny unneutered.  Chews every wire he can find.

sold them my ex pen so he can get out of his cage now n play.   Otherwise when they let him out he chews all the wires up.

Carpet and peeing.  I am not real sure of any solutions.

The old cruddy rug idea sounds good tho.  You can throw it out when it gets too bad.

 Haha!  Well, that explains some of it!

Just an idea for you.  Lolli’s water bottle was leaking like a seive.  So I bought her a small waterer like this:

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp

They don’t have the waterer listed.  This is for the FOOD but it’s the same general design but has a spout for water.   This might be heavy enough for her to not move around.  Another option depending on her set up is to get one of those dishes that lock onto cages or pens.  Just a thought for you!

For the waterer, it’s the same principle as water coolers. The top part where you fill it up is the same design. You just snap it into place and as the water level goes down, it will refill the bowl. But don’t make the same mistake as me – I bought the feeder. If you buy the feeder, the water will just gush out. lol

Or attaching a water bowl to the plank will work too!

Wow  so the whole time she was pushing her waterbowl around causing these wet spot.     That is a relief.      Excellent idea to catch her on video to see what she was doing all this time.  

Hurrah it all worked out after all.    Plus these great ideas to put that funny flooring stuff that is sold at hardware stores.   OR a plastic thing that office chairs roll on

Mystery solved.   

Just an FYI: Urine is sterile

Posted By Monkeybun on 03/11/2011 08:27 PM
Just an FYI: Urine is sterile

Really?! 

Taurus, good to hear you’ve solved the issue.  I am wondering why you have deleted all your previous posts though?   It now makes all the replies members made read out of context. Even though you may not find them relevant to your situation now, they may benefit someone else. Doing a search on BinkyBunny might bring up this thread for someone facing this problem.

If you are unable to recover the posts, please send me a PM – Thanks.

Yes normal urine is sterile.
 

Please don’t delete all of your posts when you update a thread. You can update by editing in the initial post if you want, but leave the others intact.

This makes it incredibly confusing for others who are trying to follow along with what has happened, and if future members want to reference this thread for assistance with similar issues, they can no longer do that.