Thanks, everyone, for all your tips. From posting this on a number of boards, it seems the prevailing opinion is that I should hold off on bunny dates until Buster is neutered. That makes sense to me. A couple of additional questions:

(1) Buster is probably about a month or so away from being fixed. Until then, what kind of interaction, if any, should he be having with Daisy? Also, for the month or so after his operation, should I isolate him so he doesn’t feel threatened by Daisy? Or should I keep him close enough around so that she can continue to get used to his presence/scent/etc.?

(2) For those who suggest car rides and other “stress tests” – any advice on how to separate them in case they really go at it? When they fought in the playpen, Daisy latched onto the back of Buster’s neck and wouldn’t let go until I splashed her with water. Is there a better way of separating them? Can it even be done if they’re in a close quarters (i.e. a box or carrier in a car)?

Thank you!

That’s good advice, thanks.  It just so happens I have a very lifelike stuffed animal bunny that I plan on using (by pure coincidence, it also happens to look just like Buster).  We currently keep it in the common area where Daisy has her exercise time, and I often catch her grooming it.  I’ll put it in her cage for a week or so for her to further scent, then switch it to Buster’s cage for a week, then switch it back to observe their reactions.

As for the washer/dryer thing, that’s a great idea, but unfortunately we have stackable W/D’s and the top of the tower is not really accessible   But maybe I can build a setup that involves having them ride along on top of the vacuum cleaner or something similarly dreadful.  Of course, I don’t plan on doing that until Buster has fully recovered from his fun trip to the vet…

Thanks for the comments, everyone. This weekend will mark the one-month anniversary of Buster’s operation, so I’m ready to resume bonding.

Wembley, I really like your idea because it seems more like a plan and less like a “let’s let them out in the same area and hope for the best” (which is basically what we tried initially and were unsuccessful). I was hoping to ask you a few questions about your technique:

When you let the newbie out and have the “resident” bun in the newbie’s cage, do you allow the newbie to go into the resident bun’s cage as well? If so, assuming the newbie marks his territory in the resident bun’s cage, do you bother to clean it at all or do you leave it for the resident bun?

Also, do you do the same thing in reverse – that is, have the resident bun out while the newbie bun is locked away in the resident bun’s cage? Or do you limit this technique to when the newbie bun is out?

Everyone else is welcome to chime in as well with any other strategies that have proven successful. The current situation is that both buns are in the same room but in separate cages about 5-7 feet away from each other. When Daisy is let out for exercise, she usually goes over to Buster’s cage to explore. Sometimes she’s mean (trying to bite him through the cage), other times she seems frightened, but mostly she just tries to eat hay out of his bowl. Buster usually gets very agitated and runs back and forth in protest whenever Daisy is outside his cage. However, he doesn’t grunt or typically try to bite at her.

When Buster is out, we don’t let him near Daisy’s cage because Daisy gets very defensive/territorial – hissing, grunting, trying to bite, etc. – and Buster ends up marking (i.e. peeing/pooping) outside of her cage. Daisy doesn’t mark outside of Buster’s cage, which is why she still has the privilege of approaching it. However, her once excellent litter box habits have basically disappeared and she now poops and occasionally pees throughout her cage. The only silver lining is that neither bun is marking outside of his/her cage.

This has all the makings of a tough bond, but I’m trying to be as diligent and mindful as possible in keeping them both safe and thinking positive. That said, I’ll be checking this board frequently for advice!

123 – The foster lady also doubled as a vet who did the surgery, and she planned to have us bring him by in mid-March. That’s right about the time he started marking (before that his litter habits were much better), so I think that was a good estimate of when he would reach sexual maturity. He had his operation at the start of April. He was born in mid-November, so that would put him at about 4.5 months. Not sure if this is unusual or not.

Elrohwen – Thanks for the advice. I think the idea of switching their cages makes sense (as much as any part of bonding two random rabbits makes sense, haha). I fully expect their cages to be plenty messy during this period. The poop doesn’t bother me so much because it’s less messy and easier to cleanup; the urine marking, however, takes a lot more work to deal with since I spray with vinegar, etc.

If you happened to real my original post, Buster and Daisy have met a couple of times in a neutral area – when they first met at the foster lady’s house (where they did relatively well) and a few days later in our bedroom (where Daisy repeatedly attacked Buster until we removed them both). I’ve thought about the bathtub idea, but I’m pretty they could jump out to escape if they wanted. Does this not happen? I always thought they’d jump out of the box/basket as well if they were being stressed, either on a lap or in a car.

I’m trying to hold off on the stress-testing in favor of creating a more positive atmosphere w/ food, treats, etc. However, it may well be that these two won’t get along unless they’re stressed together. I figure I’ll make that decision after a couple weeks of cage-switching to see if they’re still fighting through the bars.

(Bumping this because it’s been a while…)

It’s been about a week now since I’ve started bonding Daisy and Buster. To recap, Daisy is a 1.5-year-old female, spayed, and is our original bun. Buster is the newbie – he’s about 6 months old and neuteured. Daisy and Buster got along quite well during their initial playdate at the foster mom’s house, which is the primary reason we adopted him. Once back home, however, Daisy attacked Buster rather viciously – biting his neck and latching onto it – so they’ve been separated ever since. They currently share the same room but live in separate cages about 5 feet apart. While Daisy has gotten a lot better when approaching Buster’s cage, she still gets very agitated whenever he comes up to hers.

At the forum’s suggestion, I’ve started doing some cage-switching for about 30-45 minutes every night. Because Buster is the newbie, I let him roam around while Daisy is secured inside his cage. Buster will go into Daisy’s cage to mark a bit and have a snack, but he does less and less of this the more times we repeat the process. Instead, he spends most of his time playing in a cardboard box on the other side of the room. He’s curious about the bunny in his cage, but Daisy grunts and lunges and chases him away.

When Daisy is out and Buster is secured in her cage, the fireworks continue as she races around the cage trying to get in and/or attack him through the bars. Buster gets agitated as well, often marking when he’s running around defending “his” turf, but he doesn’t grunt or lunge like Daisy does.

I’ve done this now for about a week and I was hoping to see more improvement by now. Again, Daisy acts pretty well when she’s out and Buster is in his own cage, but she’s very aggressive when he comes to see her. I bought a stuffed rabbit toy tonight and plan on using it as a stunt double to see if maybe she can take out some of her aggression on it. Maybe that will help her blow off some steam.

I’ve read a lot on here about stress-test bonding and I realize that might be my next step if things don’t improve with the current process. The reason I’ve held off on it for now is that I’m really concerned that Daisy might attack Buster in the box/crate/etc. and it will be difficult to separate them if I’m driving or bouncing them. Part of the concern is that I’m simply not very experienced at handling rabbits, and with both of mine being quite athletic, I’m not even sure I could keep them in the same place. That said, I know a lot of people have had success with it, so I’m very open to suggestions for those who think that might work under these circumstances.

Apologies for the long post – just trying to provide as much detail as I can. Thank you in advance!

Thanks for the tips.  I’ve started switching their cages every night to help their introduce each other’s scents, so we’ll see how that goes. There’s been plenty of marking (unsurprisingly), so I’ve been doing my fair share of cleaning, which I’ve learned is a negative side effect of this process.

I put a stuffed bunny in with Buster (while he was in Daisy’s cage – Buster’s cage is small and messy and it seemed unsanitary to have a urine-soaked stuffed bunny sitting around for so long). He definitely marked his scent all over it. I left the stunt double in the cage for when Daisy returned to it, and she scented it a lot as well, but that was pretty much it. From reading these forums, it seems that the aggressor bunny will often attack the stunt double, but I didn’t notice any aggressive behavior. Maybe I should have left the stunt double with Buster for more than 24 hours?

For bunnies that are fighting like these two, I agree that stressing may be the way to go if I don’t see some progress relatively soon. A lot of people have suggested holding them together and petting them to help them relax. While that makes sense, the issue I have is that Buster, oddly enough, does not care to be pet. Normally when I try to pet him, he runs off to do something else. He’s very friendly mind you – moreso than Daisy (who is more shy but LOVES to be pet), but he’s much more interesting in playing and exploring than peting. I’d worry that petting would actually make him more stressed, as strange as that sounds.

Also, thanks for the link – good stuff in there!  From reading it, stress-bonding and/or the “wear them down method” (where you sit in a pen with the buns and play bouncer until they finally stop fighting) are likely in my future.  Fun times…

Hi Everyone,

First off, thank you all so much for the helpful advice and encouragement! I know that bonding is an unpredictable and too-often frustrating process, but I’m at least becoming more comfortable that I’m taking the right steps.

I’ve followed the advice of some on this board and others and limited Buster and Daisy from approaching each other’s cages. While their cages remain in the same room a few feet from each other, this is more a result of our limited space (we live in a small house) than anything else. If nothing else, I know they’re used to each other’s scent by now.

Tonight was Buster and Daisy’s first face-to-face date since their unfortunate encounter a few months back. I started by putting them in separate carriers and driving them around for about 20-30 minutes while doing a few quick errands. When I returned, I loaded up the bathtub with all kinds of hay and treats, then placed the buns inside the tub.

Overall, things went fairly well – certainly much better than last time. Buster came out first to explore, while Daisy took a bit more coaxing. More than anything she seemed very apprehensive, but in a positive way such that she was more curious than upset. Daisy and Buster sniffed each other for a while without incident, then they gradually started snacking together on the hay. Often Daisy would shove her face into Buster, which I took to mean “groom me so we both know I’m the dominant one,” but Buster ignored her and kept munching on hay.

After 10-15 minutes passed without any fighting, I was feeling pretty good about things. However, Buster then tried, unsuccessfully, to leap out of the tub, and that seemed to frighten Daisy. After that mishap, she started getting more agitated and started nipping at Buster. I tried petting Daisy to calm her down, but whenever I stopped she continued nipping at Buster. It wasn’t the vicious neck-biting that we saw before, but her ears were back and she was lunging, so it was much more than a love tap. At this point I realized I had kept them in too long, and after petting her to calm her back down, took them out of the tub and back into their separate cages.

For the next couple of weeks or so, I plan on continuing this pattern since things went rather well overall. At some point I worry that the tub will no longer seem like a foreign/neutral place and I will have to find another such area, but for now I’m going to maintain the status quo.

For those of you with advice to share, any comments or thoughts on the process? One thing I struggled with tonight was knowing exactly when to end the date. I’ve read that you should seek to end it on a positive note, which I tried to do, but if things are going well then my tendency is to let the date continue. Things turned sour around the 15 minute mark tonight, so I might limit tomorrow’s night dates to 10 minutes.

Any suggestions on when/how to end the date, or any other advice you all might have, would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks for the bunny dating suggestions. 10 minutes still seems like the optimum point for Daisy & Buster at present, as Daisy starts getting nippy around 15 minutes in or so. Nights 2 and 3 went more or less like the first night; usually it takes them a good 5-10 minutes just to de-stress enough from the car ride to actually move, interact, snack, etc. Daisy remains the aggressor – in fact, I’m not sure I’ve ever seen Buster even try to nip her. He usually either requests grooming or ignores her while snacking on hay.

As for stressing methods, I’m going to switch to “in-house” stressing starting tomorrow night, since driving around town is both inconvenient and pricey. My plan is to put them in the laundry basket, jostle them around for a few minutes, then dump them back into the tub. As you said, if they start fighting, I’ll jostle them again so they associate fighting with something negative.

Question for all you bonders: how do you handle nipping versus chasing versus out-and-out brawling? (I would include humping in here, but we haven’t seen any of that yet.) I know a lot of people allow nipping to take place in order for them to determine pecking order, but I have a hard time distinguishing that from more aggressive biting which I fear will just go downhill.

Also, has anyone tried the banana-on-the-forehead method to trick them into “grooming” each other? At this point the bunnies are still shoving their heads into each other to demand groomings, but no one has responded yet. I’m wondering if nudging them along w/ some banana might push them forward a bit.

Figured it’s time for another update

We’ve been doing nightly bonding sessions in the bathtub for about 2 weeks now, and I think we’re seeing slowwwwwwww but noticeable progress. The bunnies – primarily Daisy, who’s been the aggressor – seem to be getting over “seek and destroy” mode where they attack each other on sight. What we’ve been seeing the past few nights is lots of what I call “bunny standoff,” involving the two rabbit shoving their heads against each other, presumably to request grooming. Unfortunately, both bunnies are typically stubborn and don’t want to be the first to groom. Eventually Daisy seems to get impatient and that’s when the nipping starts, but I do think she’s getting more patient waiting as the days go by.

Interestingly, Buster is starting to take more initiative to reacting to Daisy. Whereasa before he did a lot of cowering at the other end of the tub, he will even give her “mini-zips” on her sides and haunches if she doesn’t groom him. Sometimes this provokes Daisy to bite back, but sometimes she just seems to simply ignore it.

I did try the banana-on-the-head trick with mixed results. Buster is definitely not shy about licking the banana off Daisy’s head. However, Daisy didn’t return the favor – which means Buster now has a sticky patch on the fur on his forehead. Any suggestions for cleaning dried banana crust off a fluffy rabbit? :p

We did have one date at a friend’s house in the pen, and that did not go well at all. Lots of chasing and fighting almost immediately. We let them cool off for a good while in separate carriers, then tried them again in the tub, which worked much better. At this point I’ve learned it’s not a good idea to introduce anything they can “own,” such as a littler box or hay box, into the environment. Looks like the tub is the preferred destination for now.

Finally, we had been stressing them through car rides, but I started worrying about Buster’s reaction to it all. He would start peeing (presumably out of fright) during the stressing and would take a long time to recover after being deposited in the tub, where he would simply lay down out of exhaustion. I realize that stressing them means just that, but I felt like he was getting more stress than was healthy for him. So for now, we put them on the floor in a laundry basket and run the vacuum cleaner around them for 5 minutes. They’re not as stressed when it’s all done, but they don’t fight and Buster seems to handle it better.

Perhaps the biggest positive sign we’ve seen is that both Daisy and Buster haave on a couple of occasions groomed each other’s ears on their own initiataive. It just lasts for a few seconds, and for some reason it usually ends with nipping/biting, but I have to consider it a good sign. Maybe we’re getting somewhere after all

Sorry again for the long post – thanks again for everyone’s advice, and feel free to keep offering suggestions!

Hi guys – wanted to provide an update for those who are interested.

Overall, bonding is going “OK.” I started doing bathroom dates about a month ago and feel like I’m in a bit of a rut. The bondings seem to follow the same pattern: the first 1-2 minutes involve both bunnies exploring the bathtub (where the dates are); Daisy then gets aggressive and starts nipping Buster because he gets in her face when she’s exploring; Buster reacts defensively by spraying pee everywhere when attacked (but doesn’t nip back); after another 10 minutes they settle down and Daisy grooms Buster for a few minutes. At that point things are pretty calm, so I usually end things on that note.

I stopped doing stressing because Buster wouldn’t react well at all (peeing while in the car, then breathing REALLY hard and plopping down for a long time once he was finally out). I don’t notice a big difference in stressing them versus not stressing them, except perhaps they interact less at first when stressed. People have suggested short dates around the 5-10 minute mark, but that’s usually when these two are fighting, so I’ve gone with longer dates (usually upwards of an hour) to try to break them in a bit. I think it’s helped, but they could be doing better.

I try to make dates positive with lots of petting and treats, but the treats mess things up because they start competing for food even though they’re both being offered it. I fear the same thing would happen if I put down greens or other treats, so I haven’t tried that yet, but am considering it.

A few things worth noting: First, Daisy tends to be more friendly towards Buster when they approach each other head-on. However, whenever he’s active around her, e.g. hopping back and forth, she immediately gets mad and tries to nip/bite as he goes by. Similarly, whenever she’s lined up with the rear of his body, she invariably tries to nip his neck or rump. It’s amazing how much simple positioning can affect things.

Second, whenever Buster bunny flops, Daisy nearly always attacks him, even if she’s beeen otherwise calm. When Daisy lays down, Buster approaches her immediately and tries to bite/lick/groom (hard to tell exactly) her , um, sensitive areas. Not surprisingly, this usually prompts her to stand up to attack him. Anyone know the significance of this? Is this something I should prevent or let them work through?

This weekend we plan on doing a marathon session with them in the pen in the living room. We’re going to put down lots of blankets in anticipation of Buster peeing, put on some DVDs, and try to wear them down to the point where they have a breakthrough. I’m really hoping this will work, because I feel like I’m running out of options.

Has anyone ever tried the “wear them down” method with success? Also, any suggestions on what the above reactions might mean? Any general advice on bunny dating, or how I might break through from the current holding pattern? Please help! Thanks!