Is it arthritis?

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BINKYBUNNY FORUMS

This topic has 15sd replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 15 years, 1 month ago by Lintini.

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- 01/28/2011 at 6:15 PM
  MimzMum
  Participant
  8029 posts
  Even though Mimzy is only 4 years old, I am wondering if he could be developing this. I know Sarita has had experience with some of her bunnies being arthritic, but I’m pretty sure they were all of advanced age. I’m looking for those first signs that something is not quite right, so we can nip any further damage in the bud, or at least reduce the likelihood.
  
  He never has been the most mobile bun, except when he was first with us and lived outdoors in a hutch and run that I let him out in all day. He would get a good burst of speed going and then binky right off the porch of the shed his hutch was in, spin around and then do the same back indoors. It was great fun to watch.
  
  But in the house, his movements have never been that animated. He is a loafer and a hider. He doesn’t like ‘socializing’, but from time to time will play with objects, just not heavily. And with the advent of the dog, I was thinking he was making territorial poos in his pen, until I figured recently that, although he has a low sided litterbox, he may just not want to deal with hopping over the lip all day.
  
  He doesn’t like getting on top of things like boxes, and also doesn’t use his sleeping shelf much anymore. He’ll barrel up there if I have a treat nearby, but his movement seems clumsy. If he didn’t use it for general cover I would junk it altogether. I had thought he had given it up because I let his nails go too long last month. But he had them trimmed when I just took them all in recently over the mites scare, so I don’t understand why he never really went back up there. He’d been shunning it for some time beforehand, I just now realized.
  
  I’m pretty sure of his age. He was wee when we got him and his ears hadn’t completely lopped yet. We estimated him to be about 3 months old. That was June of 2007.
  
  So…could my little man be becoming a grumpy little OLD man? I got a good bite from him on my left arm today because I was taking loose butt fluff off and he has never really bitten me before…a warning nip, sure, but he gave me the warning and then followed it up immediately with a hard pinch that left a pair of marks. I was stunned. Then I was afraid that even my gentle plucking was hurting him.
  
  He’s pooping well, obviously, and peeing like a racehorse (he also did that on my lap today) and he eats voraciously. He’s been really jonesin’ for treats lately, but I got him his favorites and he doesn’t seem to like them as much as he used to. (we did have quite a dry spell without them, so perhaps he’s forgotten them) He seems to be very fond of his willow branches with leaves that I get from Bunspace.
  
  I’m also concerned that he may be leaking urine on the floor, as I find the occasional brownish wet mark where he sits and sleeps, and sometimes right outside his litterbox…but his bum looks nice and dry and clean, so he is keeping himself groomed. A bun with arthritis wouldn’t bother, I would think.
  
  Anyway, he just seems ‘off’ to me, but I think my bunnies are ‘off’ so often that sometimes I have to tell myself I’m just imagining things. Which is really all I hope this is.
  
  Opinions, please? And yes, I know he’s going to need a trip back to the vet to confrim…he’s got to have that nose looked at again anyway.
  
  Oh, and there IS something called septic arthritis where recurrent URI’s springboard an infection that cause a swelling of the joints. I need more info on that. And does anyone know anything about a supplement called ‘myristol’ that is sold by the CO. H.R.S.? It’s supposed to be a promising adjuvant therapy for pets who are getting into their creaky years.
  
  Many thankies in advance!
- 01/28/2011 at 8:58 PM
  jerseygirl
  Moderator
  22356 posts
  Actually Mimz, Sarita mentioned her rabbit had it from around 4 yrs of age. See 2nd to last post in this thread: https://binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/aft/113682/Default.aspx
  
  Can arthritis be seen in an xray do you know?
  
  edit to add: that thread hyperlinked from the Quick Reply box. Woo hoo! Maybe it’s a new feature from the updates?
- 01/28/2011 at 10:32 PM
  peppypoo
  Participant
  1945 posts
  Arthritis can be diagnosed via x-ray (at least people arthritis can, lol); you could talk to a vet an suggest a scan just to be sure
- 01/28/2011 at 11:39 PM
  MimzMum
  Participant
  8029 posts
  I knew they could find spurs in the joints due to previous arthritic damage, perhaps that’s how they diagnose it?
  Wow…4 years and early onset? That’s terrible. Ah well…. I know every day is a struggle for me to get out of bed and I’m only 47, so…. I’m guessing the temperature here doesn’t help.
  Yeah, I’m going to have to have them at least consider another xray. Does anyone know if they have to be out for this one, or can Mimzy be awake?
  I was checking out a picture of a rabbit skeleton tonight, holey moley…with the way they are put together…it’s no wonder their backs are so fragile! If humans had bunny spines, we’d all look like Yoda walking around! 0_o
  “When 900 years old you reach…look as good, you will not!”
- 01/29/2011 at 10:37 AM
  KatnipCrzy
  Participant
  2981 posts
  Arthritis can be diagnosed via x-ray- but it has to be advanced enough to see any bony changes. Arthritis or joint disease can also be diagnosed by an experienced vet thru exam- the animals response to flexion and crepitus (grinding) can sometimes be felt in painful joints.
  
  Not familiar with the product sold by CO HRS.
  
  If I suspected my bunny had arthritis I would start them on Cosamin (which is the human version of Cosequin). Cosamin DS is usually cheaper than the pet version- and is not flavored- and in capsules. A bunny dose would be 1/2 capsule. Some of the pet versions are flavored- and the cat one is liver flavored or seafood flavored- which the rabbits do NOT like anyway. Cosamin/Cosequin is well known for their high quality standards in the vet industry as glucosamine/chondroitin products are NOT regulated by the FDA.
  
  There is also some benefit for bladder health. http://www.nutramaxlabs.com/vet/pro…px#bladder
  
  I just started my 2 senior cats on Cosamin DS. It is often on sale at Wal-Greens- Buy one Get one free- which is what makes it so cost effective.
- 01/29/2011 at 3:14 PM
  MimzMum
  Participant
  8029 posts
  Thanks Katnip! Good to know there’s something I can do now while I’m waiting. We don’t have a Walgreens up here anymore (and we’re the worse for it) but I’m sure if I poke around I can find the Cosamin.
  
  Checking the link now. Good to know about the effectiveness of this in cats as well, since our two girls are both very creaky. Thanks again!
- 01/29/2011 at 6:14 PM
  Sarita
  Participant
  18851 posts
  Remember that 4 years old is mid-age for a rabbit. And Mango was diagnosed with arthritis at about 4 years old – a mild case but my vet saw it in x-rays. So yes, they can be. Not familiar either with that supplement but try the Cosamin that Katnip recommended.
- 01/29/2011 at 7:47 PM
  jerseygirl
  Moderator
  22356 posts
  That’s really interesting about the cosequin and bladder health Katnip. Skibunny’s Gracie had me thinking about this some.
  
  I’ve also been wondering about how their skeletal health might impact on the GI tract? Only because I recall a physiotherapist I was going to commented how her patients reported a lot of improvement in their bowel & stomach issues after recieving treatment for their backs and posture. It would make sense to me that it could impact on rabbits also.
- 01/29/2011 at 11:46 PM
  MimzMum
  Participant
  8029 posts
  Funny, I was taking glucosamine for awhile and it only exacerbated my bowel and stomach issues. 0_o I had to stop using it.
  I looked the Cosamin up on the net and Walmart supposedly has the DS, but it appears to be solid caplets, not capsules.
  
  Wow, Sarita, I have such a hard time thinking of Mimzy as middle-aged! 0_o. I hope he pushes the long end of the lifetime envelope, and can do it without bone/joint discomfort.
  Do you think I should increase his exercise or reduce it?
  I’m also off to see if I can find litter boxes with lower sides than the one he currently uses. I think he could manage better with something with an access that is almost level with the floor. He has to do a heavy kick/foot flick to clear the side of the one he has, plus get his feet clear of his soiling, which is apparently not always working if his pen floor is any indication.
  My poor baby. Do you think maybe bunny massage or heating pads would help also? I’m always worried about massaging too hard or overheating him.
- 01/30/2011 at 4:26 PM
  RabbitPam
  Moderator
  11002 posts
  Unless he actually has arthritis, I tend to think 4 years is way too young to think that’s happening. I am inclined to think that it may be related to his overall fitness, or lack thereof, due to the chronic sneezing/respiratory issues he’s been through over the past year. I mean, if he didn’t get much oxygen, he may be more delicate than robust. So he may not exercise as much since he’s out of shape, and he might even have reduced lung capacity so he gets winded sooner. So it could just be he’s like some of the couch potato middle aged guys we know, instead of the gym rats with the sports cars, if you get my drift.
  
  I think a lower-sided litter pan would help. Also, more frequent nail trims so he can move around easily when he wants to. If he’s still getting up on the ledge for treats, at least he has climbing in his daily routine. Remember, Sammy is very healthy (she did some amazing bunny 500s this morning) but she never, ever, jumps up anywhere. Odd for a bunny, but that’s her.
  
  I’m reluctant to have him go on any supplement that may be used for years if it isn’t necessary. I do feel reassured by Katnip’s info. but as you know with your own health, some things have a better effect on some people than others, and you don’t want to discover a new problem due to a supplement. I’d ask the vet about an xray next time you go there, but doesn’t sound to me like a special trip is warranted. (Of course, if you try the supp. and he leaps over tall buildings in a single bound, you’ll know you’re onto something.)
- 01/30/2011 at 8:39 PM
  jerseygirl
  Moderator
  22356 posts
  Actually, some observation of him outside of his cage would be an idea. Are you able to use that room you’ve been working on? You could set it up for him to be out on the floor and see how he deals with the current litterbox and general movements. I tend to think exercise is always beneficial, no matter the bun. (I think it yet do I regulary exercise?…..No!) So to your question “Do you think I should increase his exercise or reduce it?” I vote for no reduction. Just my personal feeling on that, not based on any concrete medical knowledge or anything like that.
- 01/31/2011 at 2:11 PM
  KatnipCrzy
  Participant
  2981 posts
  I am pretty sure that Cosamin DS does not come in solid caplets- only purple/white capsules. I even got my very picky cat to eat some Cosamin mixed with tuna. I had to start my other elderly cat on it- and much to my surprise Oreo was willing to eat it to. I had my husband lick his finger and touch it to the powder after I opened a capsule- and he said it does not really taste like anything. So maybe that is why the cat was so accepting and rabbits usually are too.
  
  They sell Cosequin for Small Pets in capsules- and it would be unflavored and the right dosage- but I usually find Cosamin is so much cheaper. Just be sure to avoid the ones that are flavored- as I think it is horrible to give a bunny something liver, chicken or seafood flavored- especially something that would be a long term med. Cosamin ahs little to no side effects other than a rare possibility of being allergic to the ingredients which the risk is even lower when giving unflavored.
- 01/31/2011 at 7:54 PM
  RabbitPam
  Moderator
  11002 posts
  I’m sorry to veer off topic, but Katnip got me laughing with her hubby’s taste test. I’m reminded of times when a family member would take something mysterious out of the fridge and say “taste this. tell me if you think it’s gone bad.” I mean, are you going to ask him one day if arsenic really tastes like almonds, or is it just what the mystery writers say? LOL
- 01/31/2011 at 10:43 PM
  MimzMum
  Participant
  8029 posts
  Well he won’t be heading in to the doctor right away…I just had to make three appointments, two for my two cats (Myuu is suffering from some kind of IBS and can no longer eat the latest food I found for her that wouldn’t cause tummy trouble….Griff is going to piggy-back his well-check with her for a potential tooth cleaning, he hasn’t had one for, oh about nine of his ten years!) and Jenna is going in to have her teeth done. Yes, there’s a special on dentistry this month. We’ll see how much that’s going to set me back and then maybe I can get him in for his xray.
  He does still try to get on his shelf for treats, and he’s climbing all over his pen door the minute I open it, hoping to snake a goody while I’m not looking, so he can’t be too bad off. But like I said, I’m just noticing little things about him that don’t seem quite right and I want to catch any real trouble early.
  
  No Jerz, I don’t have the room yet, if you meant my son and I trading rooms. He’s got way more stuff in there than we realized and now that he’s back at school, I have to clear the rest of it out by myself until he can come back and help me. Even so, it may be moot because that would put the bunnies a lot closer to the hubby, who would then start to have more trouble with his sinuses and I am lucky he lets me keep them as it is. So I’m looking at turning the room they have into just a rabbit room, but that will take a lot longer than the original idea.
  
  Yes, Mimz does need a trim. Those nails are growing a lot faster than they used to. Unfortunately, his are the darkest of the three of them. It is very difficult to see them properly to keep from cutting his quicks.
  I finally got up the nerve to use my PediPaws on Jenna (she’s a lot more cooperative than the buns) and I almost ground her toenail down to a nub before I realized it. She did bleed a little bit and I felt terrible. I may have to practice with the guard off and use it on my nails or heels or something to see just how much pressure and what angle to apply, then I’ll probably use that instead of clippers. I just have to pray the noise doesn’t spook him.
  
  I’m still seeing those toofy marks and the bruise from the bite he gave me a few days ago. o_0 Not looking forward to another one of those.
- 01/31/2011 at 11:51 PM
  Monkeybun
  Participant
  10479 posts
  When I do the nail trims for my buns, I just shave off tiny bits at a time, so I don’t cut the quick. I do the squeeze squeeze clip thing, if they flinch when i squeeze, i leave that nail be make for much less stressful nail trims, and much less… messy shall we say
- 02/01/2011 at 12:00 AM
  Lintini
  Participant
  3329 posts
  I do exactly what Monkeybun does too!
  
  Sorry I don’t know anything about that med you are asking about 😐
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