sebaceous adenitis, Buki's last night

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This topic has 38sd replies, 16 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 1 month ago by BunnymomKS.

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- 01/21/2011 at 7:42 PM
  longhairmike
  Participant
  1069 posts
  has anyone ever seen another rabbit with this?
  
  its been 5 weeks since the mother of all clostridium infections caused a 3 week GI stasis nearly killing my Fubuki ( https://www.binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/a…fault.aspx )and shes been on SO many meds. near the last day, the cisapride and reglan finally got her gut jumpstarted again, although maybe only to 50% function. She is eating greens now, and SOME hay. but since since she’s not yet touching pellets or hay voluntarily, we’re still supplimenting her diet with critical care, and plain sunflower meats and oats for extra calories. shes still scrawny and weak. pills are still about half size and not hay based (although we’ve caught her nibbling it a few times). a lot of greens at nite means moring cage mess.
  
  the dry skin around her eyes and fur loss has gotten MAJOR. its on her head, ears, belly, the tops and bottoms of her hands and feet, all around her neck. also her bunnny privates area and the entire base of her tail (she has just a little tuft of fur at the last inch of her tail). at the very least, she is poopy-butt-proof
  
  its likely not mites, although we went ahead and got an ivermectin shot on her last visit on the 12th. The vets are all but certain its sebaceous adenitis, an autoimmune disease which causes the skin to get really thick, waxy, and dry and the hair just starts falling out in clumps because the follicle really has nothing to hold it anymore. We have her next vet visit scheduled for tuesday with a skin biopsy. Buki has now cracked the 3k$ mark, but at least i get unlimited ‘tech support” over the phone included. although this condition is fairly rare in rabbits, there has been some success with ciclosporin. but this will mean she will be on TWO immuno suppressant drugs (going into her 8th month of prednisolone for her thymoma)
  
  in the meanwhile ive basically been oiling her up a couple times daily with canola oil on the spots that have already lost fur. this helps keep the skin moisturized. Yes, i have an ugly bunny, but i can live with it as long as she can.
- 01/21/2011 at 8:05 PM
  Monkeybun
  Participant
  10479 posts
  Oh the poor baby Hope you and the vet can get it sorted out soon! And she is NOT ugly, she is still beautiful
- 01/21/2011 at 8:43 PM
  LoveChaCha
  Participant
  6634 posts
  I’m so happy she has a loving family. She is very beautiful *vibes to her and you guys*
- 01/21/2011 at 9:43 PM
  jerseygirl
  Moderator
  22355 posts
  What awesome caregivers you are! {{{Fubuki}}} It’s nice to see she still enjoys the head pets.
  
  How does the Pred effect her appetite? Have vets ruled out any side effect/allergy to that?
  
  You may have read this info from Medirabbit on sebaceous adenitis but I’ll link it here for other readers if they find this thread in the future.
  http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Skin_diseases/Immune/Adenitis.htm It does mention a connection with thymomas.
  There’s a pdf link at the bottom of that page that documents a case (treatment) also.
  
  The Rabbit Haven had a case story on a rabbit treated for thymoma. Have you seen that one? http://www.therabbithaven.org/Lucy_story.pdf Every case is different I suppose, but it’s good to read of a positive outcome.
  
  Regarding her weight gain, I have heard of people using Calf-Manna. Something to ask the vet about?
- 01/22/2011 at 5:44 AM
  Beka27
  Participant
  16016 posts
  I have no idea. I haven’t heard of this particular disorder, but I’ll be sure to read the link and see what I can learn.
  
  Thank goodness she has you. (((Fubuki!)))
- 01/22/2011 at 7:12 AM
  longhairmike
  Participant
  1069 posts
  the worst clumping was on her nose and lips around her jaw. I think it was also made worse by the fact that she was getting poop and critical care dried onto the thick skin. it was literally a hard shell nearly .5 cm thick. Water applied by a warm washcloth was unsuccessful in moistening it. I was finally able to get most of it off (already off in yesterday’s video) by slathering it with triple antibiodic ointment (vasoline based) and rubbing that in several times daily. I then had to try to ‘pinch’ off a tiny softened section between my fingernails without pulling or getting the actual skin. once i had a little section clear, i had an edge where i could apply more ointment to start the next row. she HATED this. it was really tough to get her to sit still. probably because her whiskers, which did not fall out from the SA, were also encased in the clump. however she seems to feel much better now that the hard shell is gone. it also allows her lips and nose freedom of movement again (before i dont think she was even able to wiggle her nose)
  
  the vet discouraged use of triple antibiodic ointment because it would lead to quicker hair loss. But i decided id rather have more baldness with smooth soft skin instead of hair barely hanging to the top of scaly skin. I was also concerned about the possibility of bacteria growing underneath the shell. first the skin gets dry and white,, then if not removed it starts to get thicker and yellowish. I can already feel the thickening on the tops of her feet, but im not about to try to soften them up because they are nowhere nearly as infection prone as the facial area.
  
  prednisolone iniatally made her start to eat everything in sight., but since the GI problem 5 weeks ago, she has not recovered back to that point.
  
  4 sets of followup x-rays after starting pred showed NO size increase in 7 months (in fact a slight decrease in size). however it doesnt mean that the thymoma in itself isnt still doing all this other damage remotely. once on pred, its for life. she was doing 120% in activity level, appetite, and weight for the first 6 months on it.
- 01/22/2011 at 9:29 AM
  FluffyBunny
  Participant
  1263 posts
  One of my rabbits, Mr. Bunny, used to have a skin problem, which the vet suspected was either sebaceous adenitis or a hormonal problem. I’ve done more research on it, and it appears that if he did have sebaceous adenitis, he had the “patchy” type. Fortunately, he didn’t have Thymoma to go with it (at least, as far as we know), and he’s mostly stopped getting bald spots for almost half a year.
  
  All you can really do is to keep the skin oily and hydrated. Try to prevent her from pulling out more fur or chewing/scratching at the bald spots. Also, if she has very large bald spots, you shouldn’t keep her in a cold room. I also wouldn’t recommend keeping her around any concrete – for some reason, concrete dust seems to make Mr. Bunny lose huge amounts of fur.
  
  Also, don’t stress out your rabbit too much. Mr. Bunny tends to lose a lot of fur when he’s stressed.
  
  When my rabbit had bald spots, I’ve had great success treating the dry skin with “Bag Balm”. When I apply it to his bald spots early on, it entirely prevents dry skin from ever forming and also makes the fur grow back faster. I’ve also heard of people treating the dry skin with Vaseline or plain oil.
  
  Also, just so you know, some vets recommend euthanizing any rabbit with sebaceous adenitis. Personally, I think that’s unnecessary. As long as the rabbit’s dry skin/sores can be controlled, they can live for many more happy, otherwise-healthy years.
- 01/22/2011 at 10:08 AM
  longhairmike
  Participant
  1069 posts
  my preferred vet also has a rabbit of her own. since booth vets at our animal hospital are positive it’s SA, im going to request we hit the ciclosporin combo right away on tuesday and not even bother with the $400 biopsy procedure. her chest is starting to get the yellowing om the crust too, so ill have to oil her up again to remove it (which in turn speads diameter of the fur loss)
  
  our 6th floor condo is wall-to-wall carpeted except for the kitchen and bathrooms which have tile (where only Usako dares venture, the other buns stop at the border). our buns havn’t been outside since we lived in an apartment in 2006, the 747s zooming right outside our balcony here are just too loud to even open the door
- 01/22/2011 at 5:49 PM
  jerseygirl
  Moderator
  22355 posts
  Ditto on the bag balm, that might act as a barrier cream for her face also. Possibly help prevent stuff getting stuck there. That sounded like a nightmare to deal with.
  
  I’m reading that exfoliative dermatitis is associated with thymomas more commonly then Adenitis. Fubuki’s vet has ruled that out?
- 01/25/2011 at 4:26 PM
  longhairmike
  Participant
  1069 posts
  i bought a 10oz tin of bag balm on sunday nite. applied it liberally. it took a LOT of the fur off, but at least its a start. the fur that’s attached to the dead flaky skin is not going to re-root itself, so it’s better gone anyways.
  today we went to the vet (the one with her own rabbits who are 8 and 11 yrs old,, wow!). she said it does not look like exfoliative dermatitis. she also said its probably best not to do the skin biopsy because in her state any open sore is a bad one. besides, confirming it is SA is pointless if we cant give her cyclosporin without annihilating her immune system completely. For now we just treat it topically as if it was just dermatitis, knowing that it will be there until the end. If something else pops up we’ll just deal with that when it happens. there are a few spots on her head where it looks like a little patch of fur might be trying to grow back, but the vet is doubtful it will end up anything resembling a coat of fur again.
  
  buki weighed in at 4.0lbs today, so we need to find some more foods that she will scarf down.
- 01/25/2011 at 6:21 PM
  jerseygirl
  Moderator
  22355 posts
  It must be a difficult, knowing one treatment might counteract another.
  Sending lots of {{{VIBES}}} to you all and especially Fubuki.
- 01/26/2011 at 4:57 AM
  RabbitPam
  Moderator
  11002 posts
  What an ordeal, and you are a wonderful mother to her in this chronic situation. I am coming late to your post, so as I was reading the beginning several entries I was muttering “try Bag Balm. Bag Balm” so am glad to read others recommended it already. Is it helping? I tried it on my heals months ago based on advice I read on this site, and I can’t believe how well it worked, but that is a totally different use.
  
  Bravery makes her, and you, more beautiful.
  
  {{{{{{{{{{{Healing vibes to Fubuki}}}}}}}}}}}
- 02/02/2011 at 10:04 PM
  longhairmike
  Participant
  1069 posts
  update… MOST of her fur is gone.. her entire underside from tail to chin is bare. it does make it easier to slob her up with bag balm big time to try and keep her moist, but the skin keeps secreting that yellow waxy stuff that i almost have to scrape off once its softened. even the superthick layer that i spent hours removing from her nose and lips is reforming. one slight hope is that there is slight new growth fuzz on top of her head and on some spots just below the head. I’m keeping extra blankets in her cage so she can stay warm. 2 bottles of HUMILAC (propelyne glycol spray) are on the way, and would have been here already if it werent for the blizzard. Her appetite for greens is good, but its a chore to get her to eat any hay, and usually thats just little nibbles on a cube. I just hope she doesnt get a blockage,
  
  the skin condition in itself wont kill her,, but the vet said that as long as she’s not in any immediate pain, then its probably safer not to pursue the agressive treatment with cyclosporin on top of her other meds
- 02/03/2011 at 4:40 PM
  jerseygirl
  Moderator
  22355 posts
  I can’t believe how quickly the fur loss happens! I’m glad to hear she doesn’t suffer pain with it. Does she want to groom and the wax substance or bag balm?
- 02/04/2011 at 12:08 PM
  Sarita
  Participant
  18851 posts
  Bless her heart! I can see why this is so distressing to you. Please keep us updated on her.
- 02/04/2011 at 12:10 PM
  Sarita
  Participant
  18851 posts
  I would not do bag balm on her – too greasy and don’t see how this helps at all. Ask the vet about silvadene though – this is what they use on burn victims to help ease any pain. It’s good stuff.
- 02/06/2011 at 8:55 AM
  longhairmike
  Participant
  1069 posts
  the wax substance IS her skin. around her nose, lips and mouth its already a thicker ‘shell’ now than than the last time i tediously removed it all 3 weeks ago.
  
  if it were just the skin condition, we would not have any problems. but she still hasn’t been eating much but greens and forcefed critical care for the past 7 weeks.
  we gave her unlimited greens yesterday and this morning there was crap caked in the only remaining fur on the tip of her tail and above it. so now thats going to have to come off.
  when she pees she stands her hind legs way up in the air and strains (shana heard her grunting one time), so i’m presuming the cancer has spread to her bladder or bowels. she’s caked in crap and urine and if i give her a bath shes going to freeze because she has almost no fur. all she does is move from her litterbox to her bed and when shes in her bed i put a 2nd blanket over her to keep her warm. a couple times she left her cage and went straight to the ‘bun cave’ at the other end of the living room, and she’s been peeing in there too.
  
  I’m going to take her in tuesday and ask the vet to put her on every medicine including the cyclosporin to attack all her problems regardless of what it does to her immune system in the long run. If it helps her feel better or even improve for a few weeks then its worth it. otherwise the other option is to put her down now and she will live her last few days as miserable as she is now. I dont want her to hate me for putting her down, but i cant keep doing this, its burning me out. she’s really only a shell of her former self. it’s just not the quality of life that she deserves.
- 02/06/2011 at 9:24 AM
  Sarita
  Participant
  18851 posts
  Longhairmike, I totally understand how you feel about quality of life and I would have a very upfront discussion when you take her in about this with the vet. I’ve had this discussion quite a few times and the vet was always very honest with me. Discuss your concerns and your options. I know you will make the right decision for her and for you and you. I felt the same way you do with a few of my rabbits with incurable conditions – the feeling of hopelessness and burnout…you have to be able to take care of yourself and your other animals as well. Vibes to you and Fubuki.
- 02/06/2011 at 9:54 AM
  longhairmike
  Participant
  1069 posts
- 02/06/2011 at 12:29 PM
  Sarita
  Participant
  18851 posts
  I wonder if she is in any pain or discomfort. Have you spoken to the vet about anti-inflammatories or pain medication?
- 02/14/2011 at 3:42 PM
  longhairmike
  Participant
  1069 posts
  down to 3.2 lbs now,, buki doesnt leave her bed unless i physically put her in her litterbox.
  When we tried to pick her up so that she could be given her meds, she opened her mouth and i dont think she could breathe.
  seeing as how she has now reached the stage where the cancer is causing respiratory distress, i have made the hardest call of my life and scheduled a vet appointment for 10am tuesday to have her put to sleep peacefully. I dont want her to reach the point where she ends up suffocating. i have been crying all fing day
- 02/14/2011 at 4:07 PM
  jerseygirl
  Moderator
  22355 posts
  It is obvious how much you love this girl. My thoughts are with you guys.
- 02/14/2011 at 4:17 PM
  Sarita
  Participant
  18851 posts
  I agree, I can see how much you care and love your sweet bunny and it’s a hard decision to make but you don’t want her suffering. I will be thinking of you as well.
- 02/14/2011 at 4:21 PM
  lashkay
  Participant
  1548 posts
  I can understand how difficult this is for you, but I think you will always feel that you made the right deccision, rather than have her around only a few more days and suffering. HUGS…you’re not alone!
- 02/14/2011 at 4:31 PM
  Lintini
  Participant
  3329 posts
  We are all here for you. I am so sorry and will be thinking of you.
- 02/14/2011 at 4:51 PM
  Otti
  Participant
  535 posts
  So sorry to hear about this, but it does sound like you’re absolutely making the right call for her at this point. You gave her all the love and care you could, and she’s been lucky to have someone take care of her so well through her illness.
- 02/14/2011 at 5:17 PM
  LittlePuffyTail
  Moderator
  18092 posts
  I’m so sorry you had to make such a hard decision. You are doing it for her despite how hard it is for you. That is an act of selfless love. I will be thinking about you tomorrow. Take care.
- 02/14/2011 at 6:19 PM
  LoveChaCha
  Participant
  6634 posts
  Longhairmike, I am so sorry for your buki bunny
- 02/14/2011 at 6:44 PM
  peppypoo
  Participant
  1945 posts
  I’m so so sorry..reading through your trials together has made me tear up already; I can’t imagine what you must be going through right now. I’ll keep you, your fiance, and Buki in my thoughts.
- 02/15/2011 at 2:27 PM
  longhairmike
  Participant
  1069 posts
  thank you guys for your kind words. Buki was euthanized this morning and is no longer in any pain.
  
  Although she was near impossible get food into the past 2 months, last night we gave her an All-U-Can-Eat bowl of banana, raisins, craisins, kaytee healthy bits, and yogurt treats. So she was able to enjoy her forbidden sweet-tooth indulgence.
- 02/15/2011 at 4:12 PM
  Monkeybun
  Participant
  10479 posts
  Binky free little Buki, may the wind blow through your beautiful fur on the other side of the Bridge.
  
  hugs to you and your family, it was a hard decision to make, but I am sure Buki loves you for it.
- 02/15/2011 at 4:31 PM
  MimzMum
  Participant
  8029 posts
  I’m so sorry Mike. I have followed Buki’s story and been so inspired. You all fought well and gallantly.
  Bless you all, I’ll have you in my prayers and I’ll light a candle for Buki. May the love you shared with her wash away the grief and pain you are feeling now. She will always be watching over you from the Bridge.
- 02/16/2011 at 4:58 AM
  LittlePuffyTail
  Moderator
  18092 posts
  I’m sure she is thankful for you having let her go. I can’t even imagine how hard that must have been. I’m very sad for your loss. Buki’s story has made me tear up more than once.
  
  (((((Binky Free Buki))))))
- 02/16/2011 at 7:13 AM
  jerseygirl
  Moderator
  22355 posts
  *Binky Free Fubuki !*
  
  I hope a healthy and sprightly Buki visits you both in your dreams.
- 02/16/2011 at 7:21 AM
  Sarita
  Participant
  18851 posts
  I will light a candle for Buki so she can cross the bridge and be whole again. You are very selfless to do this for your sweet rabbit.
- 02/16/2011 at 7:40 PM
  lashkay
  Participant
  1548 posts
  May you heal quickly and find solace in happy memories of the countless days she spent with you happy, healthy and enjoying your mutual love and affection.
- 02/16/2011 at 7:55 PM
  RabbitPam
  Moderator
  11002 posts
  I’m so very sorry and sad for you about Buki. You have done the difficult and heroic thing in stopping her suffering and letting her go to rest in peace.
  She is over the bridge now, and her love will be with you, and you love will comfort and stay with her, for many years to come.
  {{{{{{{{{{{Hugs and condolences}}}}}}}}}}}
- 02/17/2011 at 2:25 PM
  Dee
  Participant
  704 posts
  I’m so sorry. Sometimes the kindest thing we can do is also the hardest. You gave Buki so much love and cared for her with such dedication. I followed your posts and was amazed at all you did for Buki- you couldn’t have been any more wonderful to her. I wish we could have all the joy our pets bring without the heartache that comes so often at the end of their lives.
  Sending you sympathy and prayers….
- 02/25/2011 at 2:20 PM
  BunnymomKS
  Participant
  113 posts
  My first time seeing this post and I am crying. It is so hard to go through a trauma like this but you and your bunny obviously had a lot of love going on. Lost my almost-9-year-old Clover in January – she and Buky can binky happy and free together at the Bridge – my heartfelt condolences to you and yours.
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