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BINKYBUNNY FORUMS

Forum BONDING Sigh. My Stinky Bink Bro’s aren’t getting along

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    • Lintini
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         Out of no where Bagheera and Lion started fighting. Lion is terrified of Bagheera even though he is half his size. They were in a full out brawl …thank goodness I was home. I have them separate. I have tried cleaning the cage completely, adding another litterbox, adding another food dish, switching things around. Lion now cowers away from Bagheera and thumps his feet. I don’t understand what happened to them. They were grooming eachother and flopping together and now they hate eachother. They pull out hair and have some cuts from biting eachother.

        So now should I try stress to rebond them? Clothes baskets on the washer? Drive them around in the car?  I am very upset, I thought they made a lovely pair of stinky binks and it hurts me to see them not getting along. I want to try to rebond them but also make sure I am doing what is right…I know they could be fine alone but …I just don’t understand what’s going on. The only thing that could make sense now is that Lion smells different but he was neutered almost a month ago and they were fine. 


      • Lintini
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          I’m trying to think of things that have changed that could have upset them but the only thing different now is that it’s very cold now and raining. Cold for me is in the 50’s …there have been raccoons in my backyard…I keep my windows open and It was staring at me through my window. It was so strange. This happened 2 nights ago. I have had a raccoon pee on my window before and the urine came into my room. (My house is on a hill and the back of the house, the downstairs…it is underground from being built into the hill so my windows are at ground level) Being a prey animal I know that is probably terrifying. We had a open house party and my mom put the dog food outside and WeeeeEeEE Raccoon party! So we have had a lot of guests, a lot of dog barking because let’s face it…my pomeranian is an out of control barker. He never stops.

          It’s almost 4am I will lay down and think some more of what recent changes there have been. I can see how some recent things like the dogs constantly barking cuz of guests and the raccoons may be upsetting. Tonight will not be any better with trick-or-treaters. We won’t get too many at all since we live in the hills but…Wickett just needs to stop barking.


        • jerseygirl
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            That must have been scary to see them fighting. Peepi&Warri had her bunny boys fight out of the blue recently too. Certainly stress can contribute. The party, raccoons or dog causing them to be unsettled. You mentioned Indy reacting strangely to you recently because of dog food you’d handled. Any chance the same for the bink brothers? My other thought was if they’ve picked up on scent of your bf’s rabbit too. Or if either of them are moulting at the moment.

            Whatever the reason, some bonding will help mend it. With stress bonding, just check they’re not overly stressed already. Sometimes if one is not well they might act this way. Hopefully it’s just something that spooked them and nothing more serious. You could start by having them side by side and petting them together if you can.


          • Lintini
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              Lion is just finishing his molt. I posted a photo awhile ago, his fur on his face is almost now just done coming in. He had that huge square on his face. I will try just putting them in a clothes basket and petting them. Bagheera is the one on the attack. He get’s upset over the litterbox and will charge when Lion is in it, and also I bought them a cat bed…that is now Bagheeras and he wants no part of Lion being near it.


            • Beka27
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                Do they share one box? Try adding a second. And I’d take out the pet bed for awhile…


              • Lintini
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                  I have them separate now, but I did add another box and cleaned well, then let them be together – Bagheera still came charging up the ramp and jumped into the large box, Lion jumped out and started stamping his foot. Then Bagheera jumped out of the box, and Lion jumped in the box to get away from them. Bagheera’s tail was up in the air and he looked ready for battle. So I plunked Bagheera up and sat him on my lap for about an hour. He’s my only bun that is content to just sit there. I found a spot of hair missing with a little cut on it. I let Lion have access to all the levels and he went into Bagheera box and pooped it up and ate his hay. Bagheera didn’t seem to care. Maybe if I take out the large box and put in one that is just a 1 bunny box only? I don’t know…change it up…gahhh.


                • Sarita
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                    Is Lion neutered now? I cannot remember.


                  • Lintini
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                      Yes everyone is neutered


                    • Deleted User
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                        This can be remedied, Lindsay. It may have been the raccoons bringing in a strange scent or something other, you may never know. The scene you describe eminds me of Duffy and Deirdra’s fight after I brought them the digging soil.

                        They will be upset and insecure for a little. Wipe their enclosure with vinegar and give several smaller litterboxes on the different levels. Supervise them and only separate them if they both charge at each other, or if one rabbit stops engaging in routines. If there are some short chases but they are fine otherwise — let them recement.


                      • Lintini
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                          Okay I will wipe it all down again and clean out the litter boxes, and exchange the huge one for a smaller one. Thanks all.


                        • Lintini
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                            I have them out in the family room now, they are fine, even sat in the litterbox together. Probably because of the space though.


                          • Deleted User
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                              That’s good enough. Keep them in there for a while, a couple of days; or in any space where they get on well.


                            • Lintini
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                                Okay I had them out in the family room for about 5 hours.

                                I did a really good clean with vinegar and switched everything around. I changed their bowls of water, added another water bottle and switched the ltiter boxes to smaller ones. Then I sprayed down the new cat bed with vinegar too just to make it smell funky.

                                Everything went great in the family room, well …I wish Bagheera would leave the litterbox. He just sits in it and watches Lion run around. I think tomorrow I will take it away and observe him because he should really exercise/play/explore. There was no agression when Lion would join him in the litterbox.

                                I put them both back in their new setup cage. Bagheera was very distracted and chinning everything and making lil poo’s around. Lion started grooming his feet, and then would stop abruptly when Bagheera came close. Lion backed himself into a corner and started thumping. Bagheera came over and asked for some grooms, but Lion was too terrified. Then Bagheera nipped at his head a few times, nothing serious just little nips. Lion then did an acrobatic move over the top of him and landed 4 feet away. Then they both sat in the litterbox together, a really small one. They were squished, Lion looking horrified. Lion jumped out back into his favorite corner. Bagheera then came over…he actually started grooming him. Lion was hunkered down still looking really scared. They seem to be a little better now, at least no fighting like before. I will let them be together tonight, if they fight it will wake me up and I can separate them. Looks good right now though, they are on the same level cage hanging out. I think cleaning well and changing up the cage really helped. *fingers crossed*


                              • Deleted User
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                                  sounds good. It might take a couple or a few days for them to trust one another again.


                                • Lintini
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                                    Nothing exciting happened at night. I am going to set them up to play in the family room. I am home sick today so they will have at least 12 hours out there if I set them up right now.


                                  • Lintini
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                                      Holy Moly….Bagheera is actually out and about, inspecting the new igloo I got them and not sitting in the litterbox! This is the first time ever! I wonder what has been going on ….it has to be the dogs. The dogs have been upsetting all my rabbits lately. I have to figure out something, either block off the downstairs again from the dogs…which isn’t a bad idea at all considering they both sneak down here to pee and poop. I just stepped in dog pee upstairs too. The door is open for them to go in and out, they get upset when we leave to work and school. Wickett likes to poop in front of my brothers bedroom door because it’s closed and he wants to go into his bed and sleep, and Leia likes to poop in front of the garage door just because she can. Wickett also likes going into my bathroom and hiking his leg on the tub and getting my bath carpet. He’s 5…I have no clue what possess him to do things like this and Leia is just 1 year old so maybe we can forgive her, but really Wickett needs to stop with the rage poop in front of doors so people step on it all the time. Maybe this is bothering them since the boys are in an area where Leia likes to poop. They seem really relaxed together now, Lion is snoozing, and Bagheera inspecting things. They are so cute together I am so glad they aren’t fighting like they were. Hopefully we will have another good night again.

                                      Do you think I should wipe their cage down again tonight with vinegar?


                                    • Deleted User
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                                        no, you can just move them back in the way it is.
                                        But the dogs! They need some potty-training!


                                      • Lintini
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                                          No kidding, about every 4 days we have something to clean up.

                                          Bagheera really loves the igloo …being so shy I don’t know why I have never given him a hidey before. I think I need to buy another willow tent but it says it’s out till May? Although that sign was up since before this past May …I’ll send BB an email and see if she has them.


                                        • Lintini
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                                            No kidding, about every 4 days we have something to clean up.

                                            Bagheera really loves the igloo …being so shy I don’t know why I have never given him a hidey before. I think I need to buy another willow tent but it says it’s out till May? Although that sign was up since before this past May …I’ll send BB an email and see if she has them.


                                          • Deleted User
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                                              hide-outs can be very helpful in bonding~


                                            • Monkeybun
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                                                Ew thats nasty. If I had to live with dogs that did that, they wouldn’t be indoor dogs for long >.<

                                                But, I’m so not a dog person. Give me litter boxes to clean any day.


                                              • Deleted User
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                                                  LOL — I for one love the fact that dogs can learn to potty outside and need no litter boxes!
                                                  My male dog only ever messed inside once in three years and he was not even 8 weeks when he came to live in my house~
                                                  My female was harder to train but pnce she got it — she never ever slipped up again.


                                                • Lintini
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                                                    I dont know, we can teach him how to play dead, high five, roll over, crawl on the ground, etc etc but he still will slip up time to time.


                                                  • Lintini
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                                                      Play time went well, I’m having an early night due to being sick so I put the boys back for the evening. Lion is currently flopped next to Bagheera. Looks good, no fighting.


                                                    • Deleted User
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                                                        Glad to hear Bagheera and Lion are runited peaceably!
                                                        The dog sounds too smart to poop up the house — try potty-training him again; is there someone home all day?


                                                      • Lintini
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                                                          No, my parents both work and my brother and I have school and work. That’s the problem My mom is a teacher and has the summer off, so the dogs get used to her being home and then have a hard time adjusting in the Fall. We call it “rage poop/rage pee” because they do it when they are frustrated and upset. Like if my mom leaves them to go to the barn, Wickett sometimes poops in front of the front door. So guess what, you come back home and step in it. Or if Leia can’t get into my brothers room to sleep with him because he shut that door, she will poop in front of it. TAKE THAT!!! Oh I’m upset mom left me again, let me go pee on the bathroom carpet, that will show her! The pom has a lot of anxiety about my mom leaving him, she used to beable to take him to the old barn and he got to play chase the lunge whip game, and now at this new barn he doesn’t get to go. Also, now the dog park is closed to the grass can grow + its muddy too…and also now my mom won’t take him on hikes in the state park because he got the foxtail up his nose. So now he just gets walks around the neighborhood and he’s mad. His little world is different and he shows us by rage poo’s I guess.

                                                          The Binks are doing great, Baheera was stinky binkin in one of the litterboxes at 5am and spinning around and binkin lol. They really like the igloo too. I am so happy they are together again and Lion isn’t scared. They were flopped together too. Very cute! I am so happy!


                                                        • Deleted User
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                                                            I see. The dogs are using poowarfare in protest. That’s tough. Crate-training might work to fix it. But it is harder to do with adult dogs, especially a spunky terrier like Leia.


                                                          • Karla
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                                                              Have you worked with their separation anxiety?

                                                              Our dog suffered from separation anxiety as well, when we got him. It took us 3 months, but we managed it. But it was all about only leaving him for seconds in the beginning to help him get used to it. And of course, make sure he was mentally stimulated every day, so he would relax. Mentally stimulation is one of the most important aspects when dealing with separation anxiety. It tires them out in a good way, so they relax and sleep when they are alone. Also, we did other stuff, so that it was all fun to be let alone (he only had access to his toys and chewing bones when he was alone)


                                                            • Deleted User
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                                                                Are the two dogs close to each other? This usually eases separation issues. But I agree with Karla that tiring them out before leaving them alone is essential to success here. The remedy would be a steady routine for Leia and Wickett.


                                                              • Lintini
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                                                                  No, Leia is constantly mauling Wickett. He would be much happier alone with my mom. Leia is super high energy and twice his weight even though she is hardly bigger, she is just solid muscle. Wickett barks 100000 times more now that we have Leia. He stresses me out with all his barking, I can’t imagine how on edge he probably makes my rabbits at times. One weekend my parents and grandfather went to our cabin in the mountains and he brought his large hound dog mix with them. Apparently they never stopped barking all weekend and that is when it all started. Maybe it was some pack instinct but he really is different now. Leia is so bad we can’t have her out when we have guests over because she runs across them and tries to sit on their heads. She’s out of control and no one has time right now to take her to another dog class.


                                                                • MimzMum
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                                                                    Lin, I don’t think I ever got this straight…are either Wickett or Leia your dogs? Or do they call your mom…well…mom? lol. And I empathize with the anxious poochies. I was in town most of the day today for a checkup and when I got home, my daughter had put the cats in the loo (to keep them from running out the door like idiots) and Jenna in her pen (ditto) while we hauled in groceries. She was clawing at the sides of the pen until she saw me, then the screaming started. I mean literal SCREAMING. You’d have thought she broke a leg or something, but she was just so excited to see me after 5+ hours. Daughter told me the dog was trying to climb out the house window most of the day. And then I had to go vote tonight for another 45 minutes, so Jenna is not letting me out of her sight, needless to say. God forbid I ever have to seek employment. 0_o
                                                                    Fortunately, she is perfectly house trained (alas, not by me…and to a fault really with this cold weather we’re having, I wish she’d use a puppy pad instead, we’ve already got frostbitten inner ears!) and I don’t get any accidents on my floor from p.o.’ed doggy. Of course, there is no other dog in the house to ‘territorialize’ with, so….

                                                                    I’m glad to hear there’s more stinky binkin’ afoot. ^_^ Those two were just too adorable together not to be best buds.


                                                                  • Lintini
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                                                                      Yes more stinky binkin! Got the litterboxes all clean so it’s clean binkin for a few hours at least

                                                                      Wickett is my mom’s dog…I got him for myself but he clung onto her because she actually was the one to potty train him and take him to puppy school. And Leia was supposed to be my brother’s girlfriends dog ….Sam turned out to be afraid of Leia…..so we kept her…and now she’s def my DAD’S dog! So when I say mom, it’s my mom too . My mom does play fetch with Wickett in the morning to try to wear him down a bit before she leaves to work and the barn. When I pop in from classes or since I’ve been home with a cold, the dogs really just nap all day, sometimes they play tug of war. It just gets really bad if my mom is outside washing the car or talking to the neighbors because Wickett can see her and he goes INSANE, he sounds like a bird stuck in cage or something…it’s so high pitch and frantic. We live on a court with only 3 homes and I’ll just get fed up and stomp outside and shove him into her arms or attach him up to the lunge line we have outside for a very long leash when she’s out there gardening or doing whatever. I can’t stand listening to him. You know what we need….that Victoria from “It’s me or the Dog!” Then not to forget my idiotic neighbors have a collie that they just ignore in their backyard. They do absolutely nothing with him, he isn’t allowed in their house and no one gives him any attention. So guess what he does all day and night.BARK. bark bark bark bark bark!!! bark bark!!! AHHHH. No wonder I’m so high strung all the time, it’s never quiet around here, then I go to school into the music department and well, it’s like a circus there too!!!


                                                                    • MimzMum
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                                                                        Oh dear. Sounds like my story. Jenna was supposed to be my daughter’s dog, but she glommed to me instead. Whenever I have to leave her, I always set her with my daughter, because she does seem to appreciate her company next best to mine, and still it is very annoying (or at least troublesome) for my girl to have to try and calm Jenna when the dog has decided she’s had enough waiting and I should be home by now. >.<

                                                                        I grieve for that collie…I LOVE collies…one of my best dogs was a rough collie, beautiful boy, who’d been thrown down stairs and starved by his owners…he was taken from them by the SPCA and then we adopted him. I had him for 3 months before he was supposedly ‘stolen’ from our yard by these cretins. He was the best dog I have ever had, next to Shadow and now Jenna. In fact, I sometimes think Kacey was reincarnated to be Shadow, their personalities and circumstances were so similar.

                                                                        I pity the dogs I can hear outdoors crying in the cold. Especially in Alaska, it is just not fit for man nor beast out there this time of year….human attention notwithstanding.


                                                                      • Lintini
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                                                                          SIGH!!

                                                                          They got into a huge fight last night and I had to seperate them. It looks like Lion bit Bagheera’s genitals and Bagheera’s mouth is bloody. Could they have gotten into it because I was gone for 2 days and they didn’t get their free time out in the family room? It looks like I have to bring Baggy to the vet after work today. Thank goodness they are open till midnight.

                                                                          I’m going to do a vinegar clean all over the cage and then try to do some rebonding sessions to make sure they can get along again, that worked last time. what on earth can be setting off these fights???


                                                                        • mrmac
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                                                                            Could it be Velvet setting them off?


                                                                          • Deleted User
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                                                                              Some rabbits, even though bonded, do not get along in crowded space.


                                                                            • Lintini
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                                                                                Velvet’s not in my bedroom anymore, she hasn’t been in it for a week now.

                                                                                I’ve had Lion and Bagheera bonded for about err 10 months now?? And 2 fights in 10 months. My best guess is that they didn’t get their free time since I had band tour. I really don’t know


                                                                              • Lintini
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                                                                                  Introduced the new grass hut into the situation. Stalemate…

                                                                                  Photobucket

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Photobucket


                                                                                • MimzMum
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                                                                                    OMG…. That looks uncomfortable. Is Baggy able to extricate himself? It looks like that hut is painted on!
                                                                                    How’s Lion going to potty?? 0_o
                                                                                    Even if they had a fight, they are still adorable. When I was bonding Mimz & Pip, she was usually the aggressor in all cases. He rarely tried any dominance over her. They got on well, just his nasal issues were what separated them…but I just didn’t feel they were tight enough together to leave them overnight without supervision, so they always went back to their own separate habitats each evening.

                                                                                    Perhaps the bros just didn’t like their routine upset? Or maybe they want Velvet to return? Was your mom wearing any perfume or used a soap or other scent that could’ve set them off while she took care of them? What started the other fights, do you remember?

                                                                                    Ouch on the bummy bite! 0_o Poor Baggy, did he get to see the dr.?
                                                                                    Oh…and I think we have entirely too few piccies of Lion, btw. *poke* Don’t make me come bunnap him to even out my brood.


                                                                                  • Lintini
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                                                                                      Ohh this is just play time in the living room….it’s not a permanent setup. They live in the Indybun Mansion remember? It’s 6′ x 4′

                                                                                      I just put the hut there and Bagheera loves it.


                                                                                    • Lintini
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                                                                                        Bagheera feels really safe in his potty box, and the hut in there got a binky! I think the problem is I need more hidey huts in their mansion???


                                                                                      • MimzMum
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                                                                                          What are the dimensions of the mansion again? You would think it would be nice enough as it is, but perhaps the Bros. think they should have their own personal spaces within?
                                                                                          I would think it would just induce more fighting, but I don’t know their personalities that well.
                                                                                          With my two during bonding, I would put a willow tent on one side of the xpen, and one of those willow playhouses on the other. Pip would sit under the tent with Mimz, but would chase him from the hut, or any other box I placed inside the pen. He was lucky he was ‘allowed’ the one space! And it was a 6 foot pen!


                                                                                        • Lintini
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                                                                                            6′ tall, 4′ long, 2′ deep


                                                                                          • jerseygirl
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                                                                                              Have you been letting back in the level that Velvet was in?


                                                                                            • Lintini
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                                                                                                I just did last night after cleaning it in hopes another level would help and they haven’t been down there.


                                                                                              • Lintini
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                                                                                                  Can’t keep them together they keep fighting.


                                                                                                • Deleted User
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                                                                                                    Take them for a car ride or do some forced snuggle sessions, and place them in a neutral pen away from other rabbits for a few days. Don’t give up. These things happen. It is possible that they need to be housed away from other pets permanently.


                                                                                                  • Deleted User
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                                                                                                      Alternatively you could try switching Bun in to see of she makes a better match with one of the Stinky Binks. Or, use this rebonding time as an opportunity to make a trio, as the presence of unbonded buns is always a stressor in bonded rabbits. I mean Bun being there but not bonded.


                                                                                                    • Lintini
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                                                                                                        I think it was 2 weeks ago I did introduce Bun to them and Bagheera was like OMG GURLL EWW I WILL IGNORE HER!!! They both were in the litterbox together and he was like a stone statue trying to pretend she wasn’t there. Lion was like Oooo hubba hubba and they both were smooshing their heads together to demand pets from one another.


                                                                                                      • Monkeybun
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                                                                                                          sounds promising


                                                                                                        • LoveChaCha
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                                                                                                            It does. Miss bun needs some lovin!


                                                                                                          • Elrohwen
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                                                                                                              I think that sounds promising for Bun! I would try that, and then maybe you could add the other Bink-boy back in later for a trio.

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                                                                                                          Forum BONDING Sigh. My Stinky Bink Bro’s aren’t getting along