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Let me start off by saying that some of this may be my fault. I noticed it at the end of the summer and didn’t nip it in the bud right then, so I think I am paying the consequences now.
Normally, Jackson and Coco are free range 24/7. A few stray poos ( which I swept up) now and again, and Coco would protest if she was upset by peeing somewhere obvious – usually looking right at me while doing it. If I didn’t catch the urine from Coco, I would notice it within a few hours because Jackson would hop along to cover it with territorial poos on top of the urine spot.
as long as I kept on top of it, and cleaned up right after, 98% of their toileting was done in the (huge) litter box.
At the end of the summer, I had a bit of an “issue” as I switched medications for my depression. I had to go through withdrawal from the one I had been on for ten years…wait out the half life as it dissipated from my system, then wait the past month for the new medication to amp up enough in my bloodstream to make any kind of dent.
During that time, the rabbits (Both of them) went nuts too. peeing everywhere. Pooing Everywhere. Both Coco and Jackson for the urine and poos.
Two weeks ago, I cut their space in half – used NIC cubes and corralled them. They had completely soaked the rug In the area within about 4 hours. Even though they have their huge litterbox RIGHT THERE. I cleaned that up – took the rug out, lay down plastic bags and newspaper.
same thing – Soaked through with urine and poos.
I added a third large litter box to the area. Ignored it. Peed around it.
I cleaned the area completely again ( vinegar) – lay a new sheet of plastic and newspaper. AND actually caged them, both. In the cage, for three hours while I was out of the house. I let them out after three hours – immediately pee/poo everywhere in the corral. Caged them again last night at about 9 and cleaned everything again. Set out new plastic and paper.
They stayed caged all night until the Am when my husband let them out into the corral for breakfast at @8. By the time I got up at 10, pee/poo everywhere in the corral.
Help me. I am feeling like if I wake up one more time to the urine and poo extravaganza I may want to throttle a rabbit. Their urine looks/smells normal. I feel certain it isn’t a health issues, but a behavioral one. I feel that this is their “payback” for the cat we adopted in August.
Short of caging them 24/7, I feel like I am running out of ways to modify the behavior.
Where is the cat kept? Is the cat socialized with them?
I am working on the cat – I have had many sessions where I have had the cat lay down ( between my legs) and allowed Coco and Jackson to sniff and approach the cat. We frequently keep the door to the bedroom closed if we are not around to supervise the interaction. Coco and Jackson rarely leave the bedroom ( I have a seriously huge master bedroom) – but the cat will come in and sniff around, lay on the bed if one of us is in it.
Loki likes to watch them – and he wishes dearly that they wanted to play with him, but he hasn’t grasped that they don’t want to play like a cat. Coco is much more assertive with the cat – she will come to the edge of the corral and sit with her back to him. Loki will roll to his side and reach out to touch her with his paw (no claws out) – Coco will whip around and do her grunt noise to chastise him, then return to her position of Bunny butt.
I took this as a good sign. Loki was asking – she was answering him and telling him “I do not want to play like that” – but not running from him.
The litter chaos may very well be in context with the getting to know this cat then. I would just work on the cat-rabbit bond and make a habitat that is super-easy to clean. Try out different flooring materials too, cardboard or coroplast.
Oh man, I feel for you! I know you’ve had probs in the past with Coco but now 2 on top of having go thru your own health changes….(((HUGS to you!)))
Totally normal to want to throttle them.
lol. I’ve finished 3 weeks of “coralling” with no great change whatsoever. *sigh*.
I’ve noticed with my pair that limiting them on their space doesn’t seem to help really. They (Jersey really) seems to mark the space. I feel it’s not against Rumball as their bond is sound. I believe she does it to define it as THEIR space. I think you may be seeing something similar. Rabbit (combined unit) defining their space. Maybe because of cat but also as a continuation of lapsed habits. From their reaction when you weren’t well? I sometimes feel the littering has some anxiety basis.
Before you limited their space, where were they marking? Showing their discontent.
Is it practical to have them back to their normal access to the house?
I’m wondering if establishing a sense of normalacy for them would help. So they have the strong routine, and sense that the cat won’t take away sense of security, or anything from their routine that they had before.
Sorry for lack of practical ideas. The only thing on that front I can think is not to use the newspaper? Establish what surfaces are a help or hiderance for them.
I am a bit time poor at moment but will post soon about a behaviour my 2 have done recently. I think it’s demonstrating something similar to what wild rabbits do which I find pretty interesting that domesticated house rabbits be doing this. Shows how some intinctual core habits are part of them I think.
Thanks Jersey – I did take everything off the floor yesterday ( and did a re-wash with vinegar). So they JUST have hard wood floor right now, no paper, no plastic sheeting.
That has helped somewhat. I did notice that when I caged them last night, “someone” (and I can’t say for sure it was Coco…but if I had to bet I would bet it all that it WAS Coco peed directly out the side of the cage and onto the floor.) Meaning she had to hang her bum on the side of the cage – up high – and pee out of the cage. Oh, that girl.
But I cleaned it up and tried to control my blood pressure when dealing with the Diva queen.
This morning was MUCH better – a few stray poos, but nothing so bad as the last several weeks. I am letting them out for play time, but definitely caging for the evenings. I took away most of the boxes/mazes too, as She had pee’ed all over the top of her Maze Haven thereby destroying it.
We did a longish session with the Cat last night. A Team effort where I held the Loki – and my husband sat between Rabbits and Cat and pet one after the other. Coco came close and did some nose touches with the cat – tried to climb on him (which did not go over well). She then perched herself next to Loki, giving him the bunny butt, while I groomed her. If he touched her, she would whip around and grunt at him, then go back to her grooming.
She is Also in a heavy shed which, as we all know, contributes to some severe bun grumpiness.
You may also be onto something there jersey – about them being aware that I was out of sorts. I am their primary caregiver, Litter cleaner, Salad preparer etc. They don’t lavish me with love the way they do my husband, but I am firmly the “Mommy”. They literally live in the bedroom WITH me, so they have been privvy to my health changes.
The caging at night seems to be helping, I think. They both look rather dispassionately at the cat when he comes in to see them while they are caged. They are not bothered at ALL when he is in the room and they are in their cage…so I think that keeping this routine for a bit is wise. Gives everyone the sense that they Know the boundaries – while we work on cementing the new family unit.
Trying to regain those litter habits can be hard! One thing that concerns me it how much I’ll be in there cleaning up. The dilemma being whether they take my presence as them getting attention. Meaning more littering equals more attention? Or that cleaning up is viewed as an invasion of their space and they need to remark. With attention, this may be something to watch with you’re own pair especially if they’re competing against the cat for your undivided attention.
quoting myself here ![]()
I am a bit time poor at moment but will post soon about a behaviour my 2 have done recently. I think it’s demonstrating something similar to what wild rabbits do which I find pretty interesting that domesticated house rabbits be doing this. Shows how some intinctual core habits are part of them I think.
I won’t post this in your thread now. Better this thread keep focus on your issue. I was thinking I’ll post it separately in Behaviour though as I thought it a curious thing.
I agree with the others that it sounds like maybe the new cat is causing it. Perhaps they’re trying to keep their territory and trying to get rid of the cat by going everywhere to tell the cat this is our space? I’m new to rabbits, but maybe the more you help the buns get used to the cat the faster this issue might resolve. The cat might also be a bit off too since it’s obviously smelling all of the rabbit scents. This might just be a time thing, they need to get used to each other and see that the cat is a new member of the family.
So a few days in and I was seeing progress. If I caged the rabbits at night – AND had nothing on the floor ( no newspaper, no plastic, so rugs) they used the litter just fine.
Now Coco was trained from ages ago to hop on into the box for her night. Shake the treat jar and BAM, Coco makes a bee line for the cage – Jackson ignores me, leading to a smack down as I attempt to corral him into the night cage. This way the Cat can Look at them – but they are completely protected from him and they just stare at him as if he is invisible.
Until Yesterday when their new Maze Haven got here ( and tunnel). I was excited and put it all together for them. They had destroyed the last one by peeing on it so it has been a couple of weeks since they had the Maze.
Well, not 15 minuets into the new maze being there, They BOTH pee marked the area. I got to the maze quickly, so they didn’t get the actual cardboard. – I put the maze downstairs until we can all keep our urine where it belongs.
This morning , there were two new urine marks in the middle of the floor.
I am honestly perplexed. I think I can’t have anything in the area until they come to terms with the cat – otherwise they both go crazy with the urine marking. I clean the spots ( and floor around) with vinegar, straight away, so as to not have them mark more.
The cat did make a beeline for the tunnel and the maze. Right now, only the tunnel is out, and no one seems to have marinated it in urine, so that is positive. I just feel kind of badly making them live in such a bland environment – but apparently this is what we are going to have to do until this phase passes.
I’m so curious to check in on this thread…..and at same time so wary I’ll end up pouring out my own frustration about this issue! lol
I’m happy to hear you had a little reprieve!
Could they have peed with the maze just because it was new?
I wonder if you can let them have their tunnel in their enclosure. Would there be room? It’s the new tunnel haven type isn’t it? To save it from pee, you could try suspend it 1/2 inch off the floor if possible. Pop it over a rod that you could put across the length of the enclosure. Or would it sort of sway too much? My thinking was it might give them a distraction plus create a visual barrier from the cat.
Oh jersey – if only….The tunnel has survived any urine to date – and I actually removed it yesterday. The cat had discovered the joy of hiding in the tunnel and I couldn’t keep him out of it. This, in turn, irritated Coco beyond irritation and she pee marked in several places.
So, out goes the nice tunnel for the time being.
I now really think it has to do with the cat – he got into the maze as soon as he could – they pee marked it. A rabbit territorial reaction to a cat action.
I think I am essentially seeing the same thing I might if introducing a new rabbit to their pair.
Coco is becoming more assertive with Loki – He ran in as soon as I opened the door to see what was going on ( he seems convinced there is big things happening if I close the door and this makes him more manic when he gets in the bedroom)
Coco was in the box eating some hay and he came bounding over to her. She does not bolt. She stands her ground and if he gets into her space she makes a little grunty noise at him – the same noise she makes at the broom. Displeasure. He then just stands and watches her until he gets bored and legs it. She has assessed him as “Not a Threat, but rather a pain in the patootie to be dealt with ” whereas Jackson just flees. Of course Jackson took a year for me to even approach him to pet without him running like the dickens.
As to a hidey place, when not caged, they still have access to under the bed – which is just a bit too small for the cat to get under comfortably. I thoroughly cleaned it and washed the floor last weekend. It still gives them a nice space to retreat where the cat can see them – and they can see the cat – but no real actions can be taken.
Now – I left today to go to toronto for the week – so I expect that there is going to be regression again and an unholy mess when I return. Plus I will have to deal with the punishment for leaving them.
How’s it going? Are you still alive? Still Sane?
Oh jersey – I laughed when I saw your follow up.
Yes, regression. Yes an UNHOLY mess – the rabbit litter had not been cleaned since I did it on Tuesday ( I got back Saturday night) so my bedroom smelled like a Barn – Both rabbits had protested the lack of clean litter by peeing everywhere else.
Once I got everything cleaned and washed and refreshed, it is slowly going back to normal.
I do believe that I was/am seeing the marking as being Against the cat as intruder – much as I would see against a new rabbit being introduced. Ss such, I try to make sure that I clean any urine immediately and stay on top off any stray poo.
They are still on mainly bare floor, as I know if I lay the rugs down that they will be peeing it up.
I continue to do the sessions with the cat. Jackson continues to be very wary or ignore him. Coco is asserting herself as Top Bun, with her viewing the cat as a Very poorly behaved, Large Rabbit.
In some ways, it is sad to watch Loki – he really does want – very much – to play with them. We certainly have loads of toys for him and spend time every day both playing with him and making him go in the back yard so he gets some non-rabbit entertainment.
We’ve had one or two good days where he doesn’t chase at all, and then we will have a night like last night when he (Loki) was just SO crazy that he had to be removed from the room. He had been outdoors and when he got back in, came bounding into the bedroom…skidded too late and slid into the NIC barrier – which knocked it over and flipped the rabbits out. Like the Keystone Cops of Cats.
Sigh.
My circus.
