I had to make a second post to attach another photo.

Yesterday I set up the ‘visitation room’

now my trio can enter the cage that sits by the divider to touch noses with Duffy which they do without going nuts. But Deirdra evidently is still totally freaked out…

Oh , no, you can’t be seen when you do a shopping cart session! you have to do it when your neighbors are out~

I am posting about my bonding here in the hopes some of you will join me, like you, Andi, LPT of course, and Lintini possibly. It really helps to compare session results.

*I would edit the thread title then to something like the ‘3+ bonding race’

Sarita, maybe you’d see yourself on the People of Walmart site if you did that.

LPT, I can tell you every time I have tried it, invariably, I had the result of all hell breaking loose when I added in too many bunnies into a session. It would only work if you had an instant trio bond like member Karla did at one time if I remember correctly, but she also had just moved houses. If you missed a thing, like me getting Duffy, you can always say that you were busy bonding… and I will let it go right away.
Have you done regular car riides? You should. I only use the cart b/c the truck is usually gone to work with my SO.

been focusing on Lint and Duffy. They were fine in the cube so I moved to larger space. The indooor space I picked did not work at all: they soon began circling, chasing and really trying to get to one another with teeth showing. I used a broom but they were going fast and faster, they almost got to fighting but I grabbed Duffy in the nick of time. Afterward, it was back into the cube and then I moved them to a neutral outdoor space, my front porch; there  things went well enough. Lint is playing his usual role pretending to be a stuffed toy and sitting in a corner, nipping at Duffy when he approaches. Duffy very relaxed and I think they are on their way.

this was the fighting start, I had to drop my camera right after to break them up

this space works. It is about 6′ by 6′ and completely neutral.I did use a garden hose to break up little scuffles but nothing too serious. We were able to have a long session. I need the weather to stay clement enough for these sessions now! I got a phone call during the session and I just picked up and said “I’m in the middle of a rabbit bonding session, hold on while I move one bunny!” I cannot take my eyes of these two at this stage.

Lint’s corner. Watch his tail… straight out! He is so tense.

Brittany, it is hostily, that tail sticking out straight. Within seconds after I took this photo they were chasing each other and snapping their little jaws at one another. You have to be so fast to stop those rabbit fights!

–My porch is ‘ultra’ neutral, no rabbit has ever been on my front porch ever. I have never had my rabbits free-range either so there are some spots indoors I have. I am also using the bed of my pick-up truck for sessions that is extremely neutral. Taking them somewhere is not an option for me as I live pretty far from most of my friends and I need to do too many sessions than to be able to go on a big trip each time. With three different pairings I will run out of true neutral space sooner or later; for example, the front porch is now no longer neutral to Duffy but I am planning to use it too for his pairings with Neigey and Deirdra later on. I think a space for bonding is different than a space for living so that porch might not be considered to belong to Duffy at this point even though he spent session time there.

Even my basement is available again since I took down their condo in May. I may use the basement for cementing.

I have been adding a litterbox to the cube, Duffy’s litterbox, to really immerse them in each other’s scent and get them sitting even closer. It is a good test to see how hostile/friendly they are because they know whose litterbox it is.

They are mini rexes so pellets are the most cherished thing and they are able to eat together in between their pens (Neigey and Deirdra not around for this dinner event)

this is in the back of my truck. This set up confused them a lot but they did try to fight also. We will just need more meetings.

this was after they had had a bad session with fighting attempts: I ran water from the shower under their cube.

I’m sorry, Sarita, but it is really hard to qualify for that site, I hear. You might not make the cut… even with cart and in pyjamas.

You should enter then, that’s way outside of the box of even the most hardcore people-of-walmart folks.
(eeeew! tie-dye pyjamas!)

when you go, can you take my rabbits along? They might just instant-bond by embarrassment.

I am one step closer to my exhausting quartet. I put in more sessions, in various spaces, between Lint and Duffy:

(dog cage)

…then, back outside on the porch, I added the trio’s favorite toy, the cat tunnel, which helped tremendously in this bond.  It seems the playing around the tunnel distracted them from the pressures of bondong… it is the opposite of what I had expected. I initially included the tunnel to determine territorial attitudes.

(thanks, mac, I know you used it with Dennis and Dexter and I copied your idea)

I have Lint and Duffy bonded now to the point of being able to be in a crate together. I can swap Lint back and forth between Duffy during the day, and with his trio at night.  I had to do another habitat change to achieve this. Kralspace,  this is the most tiring part of bonding multiples for me, the many set-up make-overs.

–Lint is Duffy’s scent ambassador now.

Duffy has discovered humping. He is the first rabbit to mount Lint.  So Lint prefers very much to be with his trio instead but I need to get him through this slightly uncomfortable phase.

no more fighting attempts here, but getting to know one another.

In the meantime, I have been confining Deirdra and Neigey in a neutral small crate for their sleepy time, while Lint is with Duffy.

Neigey never used to be able to be in a very small space with Deirdra. He just couldn’t do it.

I am very proud of Neigey.

Deirdra and Duffy still want to fight with real biting. I tried one session outdoors between them that led to fur plucking and a scream as a result. I broke them up and at this point the cube is the only place where they are peaceful together. I am hoping to use Lint as a mediator bunny since he is so tight with Deirdra and tolerant of Duffy now.

I am saving Neigey for last until Deirdra and Duffy make progress since there is no way Neigey would get away with carrying Duffy’s scent. It would break him up with Deirdra.

People say sometimes that bigger rabbits are more laud-back and so easier to bond. I beg to differ. Bigger rabbits just bite with bigger jaws… (Deirdra)
Also, some people suggest using the sound of a barking dog as a stressor… I used to have much success with this myself; Duffy here gets crazy aggressive when my dog barks and literally turns into snappy snapper biting anything in front of him… I have to consider my dog’s safety as well. So he is on vacation for this Deirdra/Duffy bond!

Yes, I got a good bond going with Lint and Duffy. It is very comforting. The only one Lint ever bonded fast with, had been Mops…

they are already sharing a litterbox.

I had started with Deirdra right away. I used her to import Duffy’s scent to her trio. But she is going to be hard to bond.

I just have a lot of pet clutter that I change up and re-use.

Duffy is seriously in love with Lint. Honking, nippy grooms… I wonder now if he will even be interested in more bonding?

no, Lint is with him only part-time. I have to keep Lint’s bond with Deirdra and Neigey in working order. But Lint is the lucky one because he gets to be in the exercise area full-time as Duffy and the pair of Deirdra/Neigey take turns being with him. When they are not with him respectively I have to cage them. Unless it’s a nice day, then they are in the outside pen.
 

Deirdra and Duffy continue their warfare intentions. The only place they get along is the bathtub now. Deirdra goes after Duffy in an unpredictable way. Sometimes they’re fine…and then they want to tear each other up.

“groome me! groome! –no, groom ME! groom ME!”

I finally intro’d Neigey to Duffy. Duffy is pretty good with him, kind of immune to meeting new bunnies right now, but Neigey is very extremely afraid, and they ended up biting at each other so I had to end on a forced snuggle.

OK, your turn to cheer me on!

Yes, disappearing in Duffy’s white patch. It was a good plan…

Many sessions later, Deirdra and Duffy are now beginning to get under control. At least, now I can stop the fighting attempts without serious measures. Duffy is less interested in reciprocating, and looking to escape her more. This is very good. I made some long sessions in a two-grid cage with litter and food so they would not be stressed out from being crowded together. They do not need stressors but just close supervision now.

they need constant hands-on monitoring in this neutral cage

in the crate they continue peaceably. (I need to get zipties to fix my cube)

on the porch they almost fought again. It started out as a denied grooming request.

I have started with Neigey then, since Deirdra is immersed in Duffy’s scent much of the the time now so that she ‘cleared’ Neigey to meet Duffy regularly. Neigey is hard for me to do because he stresses easily and is absolutely terrified. I am pretty sure Neigey will attack Duffy in larger space at this point. He grunts and snarls at Duffy in the cube. Even the bathtub is too big for these two right now.

Neigey and Duffy during a swing session.

forced snuggle after

the best meeting they had so far was on the stairs.

Posted By Sarita on 09/20/2010 08:51 AM
Very curious how much time….

How much time do you spend on bonding per day? How many sessions per day? How much time for each session?

How many sessions per week? Do you ever take any breaks from bonding?

Every day about three to four hours. Up until I started with Neigey, I did one continuous session, involving various setups, but now that I am bonding Deirdra to Duffy and Duffy to Neigey I had to split up the sessions. The most part (hours) I spend on Deirdra and Duffy. I had to give up watching my evening shows and my dogs are skipping their second walks during this quartet bonding time. I stay up later so I can do sessions when they are active too. I am not taking any breaks because I want them bonded sooner than later.

My friend sent me a bouquet of dill because I am worried about gas in my rabbits because they are going through some stress having to accept Duffy. I much prefer a bouquet of dill over a bouquet of roses! The rabbits are devouring this dill, even the hard thick stems (it has overgrown).

this dill has overgrown but the rabbits love it.

It is gruelling! My boyfriend has to be very patient to understand that when I am bonding,I really can’t do anything else!

–The dill is great: I am drying some in the rabbit’s room and the aroma has overpowered the nasty marking stench. I am using quite a lot of vinegar too to clean up marking spots and so together, the rabbit room smells like a jar of pickles! LOL!

Well, it turns out Deirdra won’t be the biggest obstacle in achieving this quartet. The biggest one will be Neigey. He is like a great (mini) white shark, wanting to kill Duffy. I never saw anything like it since Valmore and Clifford.
Starting car rides tomorrow….

I am ready for that retirement from bonding now!

— Deirdra and Duffy are hung up over denied grooming requests… in any neutral space it is the same come-down: no grooming for Duffy, and he will bite.

they like this…

but as soon as I take my hand off:

the nipping starts and then they start fighting

Duffy and Deirdra can be in this outdoor bonding space but with close supervision only and hands-on break-up measures for their fighting starts. again, the fighting is over grooming.

Duffy and Neigey still don’t have a spot where they can even just be together. I am still working on the cube with them. The milkcrate is a little too small, too crowded and too stressful. Stress makes these two want to bite even harder. I am doing short sessions with them for now because it is just too intense for everyone.

after a minute of sitting like this, fast and furious fighting is sure to ensue.

I added a bonding bag to buffer the experience of the ‘enemy’s’ proximity…

It is a woolen knitted bag I used to use for the rabbits when they are sick and cold. But I want to give it a whirl in my bonding because Duffy and Neigey are too hostile than to be able to be touching.

kralspace I demand you keep popping into my bonding journal to carry me through… you know what it’s like! the stress, oh, the stress I’m feeling! I love these rabbits and I would love them even more if I saw them all together. I miss my quartet that died with Mops. The grooming daisy sounds tempting and I woud swap except I love my little Neigey boon!

…. ooooh! can you imagine, Neigey meeting Lola? I think it would be a blizzard!

that’s OK… just check in once a week~

Neigey is not like Valmore. Valmore was a confident rabbit, Neigey bites out of fear.

I switched and put Neigey into the woolen bag and he hid for the first ten minutes. He was much calmer and even when he poked his head out he was not making his usual panicky ‘feep-feep’ noises.

Neigey is under Duffy’s throat here

Neigey needs less stress, that’s what he needs, and more safety. I recall it was similar when I bonded him to Deirdra last year. He was terrified. It is sweet to see Neigey with Deirdra now, even though she chases him and nips at him sometimes, they are bonded well, a little more now that Mops is gone.

I am keeping Duffy in this white cage at night raised up so everybunny can forget about bonding for a little, and to also keep the marking down.

Thanks, Karla. –Do you still have Freddy?

Another session between Duffy and Deirdra on the porch with no changed outcome, just the usual volatile situation of impending fighting….

Deirdra apparently keeping Duffy pinned, every time he stirred she shot her head out toward him

so I changed up the setting and had a bad session yesterday between Duffy and Deirdra. I tried a new setup, a 4 by 4 grid pen in a part of my yard where no rabbit goes (it’s in the dog yard). I did include the gardenhose and it was what saved the two rabbits: as soon as they exited the cube Duffy attacked Deirdra too fast for me to grab either. I splashed their backs with water to get them apart, and brought them inside to dry. It was one session gone wrong.I ended on a good note by holding the wet rabbits wrappped in a towel against my chest for twenty minutes.

But early this morning we had a small breakthrough. Duffy and Deirdra in the bathtub without any stressors and: — no fighting! A first groom from Deirdra, and even a little nippy groom from Duffy.

After the tub session, they were even able to sit in the cube without any stressors and the top closed. I am very pleased especially since yesterday was so stressful. I can’t keep using stress over and over so I am happy I got a positive session without any stressors.

this was really special, that they did not fight even though the cube was sitting still and I was totally hands-off. I have to close the cube because Duffy jumps out as soon as he sees a chance.

Duffy and Neigey have had more sessions involving the knitted bag. Duffy is nippy toward Neigey but less when Neigey is inside the bag. Neigey shows no interest in Duffy, just stays inside that bag.

without cube, not so safe. I feared they could slip off the dryer.

Duffy very busy on the armchair here and I suppose if Neigey had not been hiding there would have been a lot of nipping.

My hope for Neigey and Duffy is the truck rides but I defintely will need an assistant.

I am getting perfect bonding weather. I prefer outside rabbit bonding sessions because there are more distractions for the rabbits and clean-up is much quicker.

My truck session will have to wait because I will need a driver. Neigey and Duffy need a real ride and real hands-on control.

But I still made a motion-stress session:

I knew Neigey and Duffy will ‘have it out’, no matter how long I draw it out; it is inevitable. The important thing is that nobunny will get hurt in this. I picked the old cart from the junkyard for that session.

they did start fighting but they are equals, the fighting is not as hard as the fighting starts between larger Deirdra and Duffy had been. They were nipping and chasing in circles until I stopped them using an empty pop bottle which I pushed betwen them. Then they sat . After a while they started up again, this time moving the cart was enough to stop them. We did this for about a half hour.

The movie stops when I had to intervene.

This was them pre-cart session: Neigey already grunting and nipping at Duffy in the cube.

this is them after the session

you can see Neigey is very much affected and Duffy is just fine.

I have them outside for the daytime when the weather is nice so Neigey went into the hutch with Deirdra for the day to rest.

And Duffy played in the pen with Lint around the hutch until he literally dropped

but he discovered the best spot is right under the hutch.

Lint is the lucky one, he has no stress at all since he is already bonded to everybun!

I cut back on the bonding time I had been spending. The bonds to Deirdra and Neigey are very difficult for Duffy and sessions are stressful. I think it’s just too much for one little rabbit  to go through in too little time. So I focus on breaking up their territory indoors while they are in their outside pen. I cage them at night in commercial cages for the time being since they get much room in this pen outside during the day. Space is everything in my opinion. If I can have a large cementing space ready when they get past their fighting it will help settle them together without any more aggressive flare-ups.

Plugging away at the bonding…

Lint and Duffy are tight:

Neigey and Duffy are still doing cart sessions (with fighting attempts):

Duffy and Deirdra are in the washer session stage right now and are being good there but not ready for larger space. I tried them on the porch and there were still fighting starts every time.

to be continued….

Yes, all things I ‘love’ (not): laundry, bonding and shopping…

–Brittany, yes, I move the cart to stop their fighting but sometimes I needed the empty pop bottle to stop it too. I also move the cart just to get them distracted while they are just sitting… I am now able to groom them while they are close, I was worried in the beginning I would get bit.

It’s a valid concern that came into my mind a few days ago too. I scaled back on the amount of time I spend bonding, and I divided it up this way: in the morning Duffy has a meeting with Deirdra, for about one hour. Then, all day he spends with Lint. At night, he meets Neigey for a half hour only because meeting Neigey is just not going well. So Duffy is not stressed out. It’s Neigey who is suffering from stress, I can see it and it worries me. I don’t want to do cart sessions any more because he gets so terribly stressed. I am starting a new set up for the Neigey/Duffy sessions tomorrow.
I kind of hate that I am putting Neigey through this. I recall I felt the same way when I bonded him to Mops who kept on attacking him. Neigey would secretely like to be a single bunny, I am pretty sure.

Tried a session last night between Duffy and Neigey in a bare bathtub, hoping the slippery surface would keep Duffy from attacking Neigey but it didn’t. Neigey was flopped out from stress in my opinion here, and Duffy kept trying to get to him for a fight. The session basically consisted of me shielding Neigey the entire time. Duffy is one tough bunny. He always eats during the sessions, grooms and is generally perky… and he is also likely to attack my gear that I use to break up any attacks (brooms, water bottle). He is very confident. It’s like he marched in here, met three new rabbits and two large dogs and was like “OK, just so you know, I’m the boss”

worth a try!

yes, I could try Deir too. She might turn on Neigey actually. I might break all my rules and do a quartet session. It will be mayhem but I should find out. I will only have to grab Duffy quick if all hell breaks loose. I am getting fast at grabbing bunnies ~

That’s awefully nice of you to say but it isn’t true. I am some kind of a tyrant I think. I am really not into the bonding since Mops died. I keep thinking Neigey will get sick or something because as usual he is taking it all so hard. I feel like I am forcing the quartet idea down his throat.

I need to give Neigey time. Maybe I will wait until the snow is on the ground. It will give me a new environement. Also, I don’t have the truck for rides whenever I need it because my boyfriend is a firefighter now, and the truck has to be ready to go 24/7.

So after many sessions in many different configurations I think I have a tentative Duffy-trio now without Neige.

in the quartet situation Neigey just hides in between Lint and Deirdra

alone with Duffy he is a ball of nerves

in larger space Neigey turns pretty mean on Duffy, pursuing him to fight.

so I think these two need a break from bonding. Just like you said LPT bonding itself is already a lot of stress.

So I am taking a huge chance by cementing duffy’s trio and taking Neigey out from the group a little.

(Neigey is not caged f/t in this small thing, but I made him this place to be just his and only his; it is off the floor so he can really forget about Duffy a little. Duffy stresses him out big time right now, I should call Duffy, ‘Toughy’ really)

I am doing confined-space sessions with Neigey and Duffy because these I can control.

I think I have bonder’s burn-out

To answer your question, I used a spray bottle but if the fighting is pretty frequent, they get wet too much and you have to use a different object. I use a handbroom a lot, and I used an empty pop bottle, my slippers… the shower head… an NIC grid, a dustpan, anything that will work really.

this is a typical session with Neigey. If he is not attacking, he just hides, all the while threatening to suffer a heart attack. After this particular session he crawled into my sleeve when I carried him and he succeeded in convincing me that he needed some down-time.

There are definitely isssues to be worked out betwen Deirdra and Duffy. I am going to set them up in a double-crate tomorrow for their neutral-space cementing… I am debating whether or not to include Lint in this. Why should he be stressing when he isn’t the one with issues?
Deirdra has won again and is seemingly the boss of everybunny, including Duffy.

I am soooooo enjoying seeing Neigey relaxing by himself! I think, he is the one who was hit hardest with Mops passing… I think his acting out towrads Lint as much as he did right after, and all the thumping around Deirdra… not knowing where he belonged…

I opted for a larger space on my patio and included Lint because he keeps Deirdra from bugging Duffy continuously. She is a little bit all over Duffy at times, nippy, too. If he feels pressured too much, and is alone with her, he is more likely to get into a scuffle with her.

Lint is my buffer-bunny — I can’t believe how things have changed! He used to be the hard one… well, it just proves it again, how each bond is unique. ~

We are still getting balmy weather here, and it helps my rabbit bonding as I can do outdooor setups in the daytime. Outdoor setups at my place are always larger and tend to work better. Tonight the new trio will go into a double-crate, 70″ long. This will reallly be the test. It might take two attempts to move them in together into that, so tonight will be attempt #1…

I am home during the day and can see the new trio from my office

(the duster mop thing is for breaking up fights just in case. If I have to use it, I will cancel the overnight cementing)

this trio is doing well with toys, the barer the space, the less well they get along.

Neigey still on vacation: yes, he “hyperventilates” by the sounds of it, and between that noise and his other vocals he has me worried. I love Neigey so much and he appears very delicate and tender. I do not want to stress him… he could get an ulcer or something. I am a little over-the-top with health worries because I feel bad about what happened to Mops. So I am off my game with the tough bonding. But I also believe that in order to make a quartet you need to start with a solid trio, and my trio of Deirdra, Lint and Neigey was very weak. This is why I will take more time. 

Deirdra tries to chase Duffy out of litterboxes. The box barrier seems to make Duffy feel somewhat sheltered in.

Ironically, I have been hoping that Duffy would be the one to really hit it off with Neigey since Deidra and Lint are best friends now. I am not giving up on that idea yet, though.

Cementing start is going well! Even my dog is part of it.  It was such a let-down for me that I couldn’t use him in the sessions before because his presence made Duffy attack other rabbits.

 the bugs in front of the lens are just fish flies, they don’t sting.

*excuse my sneezing, I’m getting over a flu

Yes, a muzzle. He needs a proper hay rack~

I got brave. I thought ‘carpe diem’ and just crated the three bondables together. That way, I get an impression before bedtime tonight. I went extreme and am using one plain wire crate to really test them. It is a small space.

Deir is in the box.

thanks for the vote of confidence….

Thanks, Jerseygirl!

–Neigey’s vacation is over. I started pairing him with Lint because that bond was never strong and I wonder if this is part of the problem with Duffy: Duffy, being bonded to Lint, is an object of great hatred for Neigey so I think I must start by rebonding Neigey to Lint. Remember: I never cemented my Mops quartet in pairs: they cemented as a group of four.

Sweet Neigey actually has a touch of mean. At the same time, he is also very terrified for his own safety.

Deirdra and Duffy are getting along so well now that they can share the outside hutch during the day, nowhere near Lint and Neigey. Duffy’s presence impedes Lint’s and Neigey’s getting along at this point. I hated to pry away Lint from Deirdra but I feel it will help the group bonds along.

Duffy is being careful around Deirdra even though she has stopped chasing him. This was what made their cementing possible. Duffy backed down.

the hutch is inside a pen that is covered so very sheltered

*my rabbits have an indoor setup as well as an outdoor one for nice days

In the meantime, Lint and Neigey are doing better. When I first placed Lint with Neigey, he was grunting and lunging at Lint as Lint just came from this trio session with Duffy:

  just Lint and Neigey here. I was worried Neigey’s vacation would destroy his weak bond to Lint

doing better already this morning

Neigey seems to want to mount Lint, a new behavior. In the video you can see he’s thinking of it but then discards the idea . At night, Neigey is more persistent about it though

once I get all new bonds or rebonds well cemented, the Duffy/Deirdra one, the Lint/Neigey one, and  of course at the same time maintaining the Deirdra/ Lint one, as well as the Deirdra/Neigey one, I can start thinking of Duffy/Neigey meetings again.

Recementing Neigey/Lint is working.

Lint still avoids small spaces with Neigey, but Neigey has quit chasing and nipping him. Within the last 24 hours, they have settled down noticeably with each other. I was nervous for caging them together as I had never put Neigey in a small cage with another rabbit.

Deirdra is not letting Duffy eat pellets yet. She is posturing to let him him know the pellets are hers… it will pass. For now they eat in separate spots.

yes, she will share. she is a very nice rabbit.

this was before Neigey when Deirdra was part of a trio. they could eat out of the tiniest bowl the yummiest things and share

I miss Mops

it’s timothy grass. It’s the last batch of the season…

I am glad I cut Neigey’s vacation from bonding short. Bonds are so delicate!

I reunited Lint with Deirdra and Duffy for a little.

They recognized each other in frendly mode:

then Duffy had a short date with Neigey

a new thing I’m trying: tabletop bonding. I wonder if the open concept will help them? (I know it’s not a real table but close enough)

then the iffy part: reuniting Deirdra who has Duffy’s scent on her, with Neigey…

but Neigey would never mess with Deirdra, no matter what her scent.

At night, Neigey will be back with Lint, and Duffy with Deirdra.

If I ever hear someone say again that groups of rabbits are easier I don’t know if I will laugh or cry…

quartets for sure are not easy.

yes you’ve heard of timmy grass, silly! it’s the stuff the rabbit hay is made from~

nothing happened on the tabletop which includes NO fighting! I did not let them touch each other. My new plan is to show Neigey that he can breathe the same air with Duffy.

well, I hope to fit in a number of Duffy/Neigey dates over the weekend, longer ones.

In the meantime, since everybunny is bonded now except Duffy/Neigey, I will swap these two out from the trio; in the daytime I will put together the Neigey trio

Duffy alone in the daytime is not a bad thing actually. Gives me more bonding time human-to-rabbit with him.

and at nighttime I will place Duffy with Deirdra and Lint to be a trio. Neigey will be in the same cage alone during the night, that Duffy is in for the day….

….to be continued…

The Duffy trio is sticking! They are already calm with each other. I think these three are a fit!

Neigey’s time with Lint and Deirdra is not as good as Duffy’s, he does not mesh in smoothly. Neigey is just always a little nervous in the group setting since Mops died. So he continues on solo until I can get him bonded to Duffy, which may improve his situation with everybunny else.

— he is a lot of fun though even alone. He has the biggest personality

I am doing cube sessions with Duffy and Neigey but these need to be hands-on for control.

I am not using stressors now, I want everybunny comfortable and relaxing.

oh, and mac: since Neigey will need his cage for a while he now has a proper hay rack, in place of the muzzle rack!

They even eat the pellets together already. They remind me a little bit of my Mops trio (pre-Neigey) now. I can cage these three together at night without major upset! Neigey was never able to be caged with more than one other rabbit, he would have little fits.

Posted By Brittany on 10/03/2010 09:33 AM

Rabbits can eat leaves? 

well, not any kind of leaves. Some leaves are safe, if they are a non-toxic species and not treated with pesticides. Some leaves have to be dried first.

These are dried leaves from the common lilac bush.

Posted By Andi on 10/04/2010 01:58 PM
I can’t see the videos from work, but been reading and looking at all the photos. Looks like things are really moving.
Maybe Nigey wants to be a Mommas boy? Like Pitters is LOL, he’s been bonded to other rabbits, even in groups, but perfers to be a single bunny to his Momma.

the new trio is glued together.

this is the territory that only exclusive friends of Deirdra’s are allowed in: under the hutch in their outside play pen. And Duffy sits like a king, flanked by them, like Mops once did!

— how did you know Pitters wanted to be momma’s boy?

that’s really interesting, Andi. Neigey NEVER grooms any rabbit either. He liked to snuggle up to Mops who groomed him lots. Neigey has always been a little meano to Lint, and Deirdra used to put Neigey in his place. Once Mops was gone, Neigey just went off in all directions. He is very good with either Deirdra and Lint alone, as a pair, but when he is confronted with deirdra and Lint together — Neigey acts nervous. He kind of dances around them, poking at them… I am hoping he will get close with duffy so that the dynamics will shift. Neigey is more territorial I noticed as well, he will grunt at me for reaching into his cage or when I grab things that are near him. I am sad for Neigey that Mops went away.

If Mops hadn’t died I wouldn’t have regretted not spoiling him enough. Now with this feeling of wishing to have spoiled Mops more, I am drawing out Neigey’s bonding… to spoil him… it’s got as much to do with me as it has with him. It feels good to spoil him…

The Duffy trio is my best trio so far. It is better matched than the Mops trio that consisted of Mops, Deirdra and Lint because at that time, Lint was often left out. Deirdra and Mops were just joined at the hips. That’s why I got Neigey to change the dynamics, but Neigey never joined up with Lint as I had hoped. Neigey changed the dynamics by bringing Deirdra and Lint closer together. From the day on that Neigey had moved in with the Mops trio, Lint never chased Deirdra again. So I was very pleased with that quartet. It is a mystery to me how one rabbit changes the way another rabbit acts… but Neigey affected Deirdra’s and Lint’s bond in a good way. This was a matter of luck of the draw, I could not have known this, or bunny-dated for this.

Neigey himself just has never been nice to another rabbit, he likes for others to care for him but he doesn’t reciprocate. He always used to grunt and lunge at others and then poke them to groom him…

Duffy’s trio is harmony illustrated: they are free from ANY issues whatsoever: The thing that gets me is that they don’t pair up, they are always in a trio. They share hide-out, food, litterbox and even in a cage setting there is no stress. There is no mounting or chasing or fur-pulling. They only cemented for three days:

I have Neigey by himself and have not done any more sessions. I don’t want to mess up the Duffy trio and I love Neigey as a single. I don’t know if I want to bond him.

Duffy’s trio just cracks me up, they take turns grooming one another; i.e. Lint will start by asking Duffy, who will groom him, then Lint turns around and grooms Deirdra, Duffy hops up to her and she will groom him… I have to laugh.

I need some time to figure out if I want to bond Neigey… without Neigey, the trio can be outside more because he is my most delicate bunny, my smallest and fairest. Neigey can be upstairs full-time in the house because he is quiet and doesn’t shred carpet or jump up on furniture. 

Once bonded Neigey would be with the trio in the basement. Lint could be upstairs too but Deirdra and Duffy are into everything, bunny-proof or not. I decided to keep Lint in the trio full-time because they treat him better than Neigey does.

This now means that if I decide to bond Neigey, he will need to be rebonded to everybunny…

Any day I may change my mind but for now I am leaning towards Neigey solo.

(kralspace, are you reading this? I think I do have a Lola)

Well, my wish to keep him solo is very much selfish, too… but you know, they are my pets, so I want to enjoy them to the fullest! This was my regret when Mops died, that I didn’t get to hang out with him as much. It was my damage not his.
I love the bonded bunnies… but I also love the single spoiled-rotten pet buns.

Haha, :”trio in three days”, sounds like a rabbit version of Jules Verne

I am? I am happy then~

Oh dear! I think my hands are full with my white meanie rex! Less is more, you know?

the only downside to Neigey being solo is I will have to rewire my patio for him to get his separate sun time.

I had taken off my wire around the patio after I built the pen in my yard

keeping the weasels away….

Yes, I believe so, Andi. Neigey has really convinced me that he will not change, he would only want a rabbit slave.

you remember that, how I had to push myself to give Neigey up to the Mops trio.~

Neigey’s status now isn’t a matter of favoritism; it’s that he is the most well-behaved from my human perspective. This is ironic seeing how he is such a brat with other rabbits. Neigey’s cage never has to be shut, he is so quiet and never destroys things in the room. If I wasn’t afraid he could be stepped on or crushed in some other way, I would keep him free-range. Also, I love the trio how it is now….I was tempted last night to have a Duffy/Neigey session but I didn’t do it. Why create a new upset? My deal to myself is no more sessions at least until the first snow is on the ground.

Yes, it has helped me to move on from thinking about Mops. Neigey’s cage is actually the one I used for Mops as a kit, just modified.

Another benefit of the new configuration is that Neigey’s littering everywhere has completely ceased.

Posted By Karla on 10/08/2010 12:10 AM

As I understand, Neigey still lives with them at night time in his own pen, right?

No longer. He is now completely unbonded. I am thrilled with the Duffy trio. They are the best-matched three I have had.

Neigey is doing great, no more running fits, no more nervousness and even his droppings are bigger now. I am bonding him just to myself for now, thinking of clickertraining him…. when, if, I do rebond him, I will try a new way, starting out with quartet sessions right away.

Neigey has put on weight  now that he has been alone.

Life is hard when nobunny is chasing you…

but he is also more into trouble…

he is a little prince right now for sure…witn his own guards

the Duffy trio is evolving: Lint is doing ‘this’ and with permission! He NEVER mounted anybun since Deirdra was bonded.

they are happy everywhere

I tested them and found that Neigey’s bond to Deirdra is already undone. Oddly and unexpectedly, Neigey’s bond to Lint is unharmed by their separation. I do not understand rabbits: Lint and Neigey weren’t even that close.

I held one quartet session

Neigey scared and Duffy aggressive, biting on Lint and Deirdra since he could not get to Neigey (I did not let him)

If anything Duffy’s confidence has grown and he is more ready to fight Neigey.

My volition to bond Neigey has dwindled anyways seeing how he is thriving alone.

I think Neigey has made a connection with his own reflection, like he had as a kit. He starts running fast when he gets to the mirror.

Yes, the trio looked good. But there was trouble in paradise yesterday: I had the careless idea to dump some topsoil in their outside pen for digging. I left them with a huge pile. I came back to bring them in, and there had been a fight between Duffy and Deirdra, as their fur-pluckings told the story. Deirdra was pouting and grumpy and Duffy scared of her. I suppose the soil had a weird scent, of an animal maybe.

So I have been keeping them in, it got too cold anyways, and I have been watching them. They need to settle down together again. Deirdra is being territorial over the litterbox now and uses displaced aggression even on Lint, it’s like any black bun crossing her path is a thorn in her eye. It went on for a bit but no fighting, just chasing from Deirdra and thumping from the boys. I changed up their pen a little with some touch-ups, and also included a split in their litterbox. I realy don’t want to go back to two boxes, but we will see if I have to.

You know it, the smallest things. I was lulled into a false sense of security with how great they got along. Well, I am more sure now that adding Neigey would be like pouring oil into a fire.
I am also keeping my eye on them to make sure it was that soil, and not anything like a sickness or something. They are all eating, hopping, pottying… –normal.

Shown here, the fur tufts pulled out during Deirdra’s and Duffy’s scuffle. The majority of tufts are Deirdra’s. Duffy will therefore be renamed Toughy from here on in. (who in their right mind takes on Deirdra?)

the mound of top soil (top right) was flattened by them, and I am pretty sure it was the center of the ‘bunny hurricane’ that went through

and now the poowars are on, but Deirdra and Toughy were eating together this morning and there was no overnight scuffle.

I’m serious, his name is Toughy now.

not fancy, just a corner in the basement. 5′ by 5′ by 40″

Yes, there is a tunnel created by the leaning rack. It is an old live-cargo crate I had to buy  when I went on a train with a dog years ago. It is a versatile thing.  The rack is just the door of the crate wired ajar a little.

I think Duffy is just learning boundaries with other rabbits. When I give them vegetables he tries to eat Deirdra’s and gets in major trouble for it. Then he sits there, in shock, but he will do it again.

Their recementing is working though. I am leaving them penned up in the basement with no breaks for at least ten days, until Deirdra loses her grudge. Her chasing Duffy is less severe, I took this video during the night.

Posted By jerseygirl on 10/18/2010 07:50 PM

I’m glad to hear there were no serious injuries.

I was very glad too. But I would have been very surprised iif they had really hurt one another. Their relationship was excellent and without any issues prior to the soil fiasco. Interesting though that Lint was not involved in the scuffle. Trios are fascinating, so different from quartets!

What a difference a day makes… Deirdra and Duffy are almost back at sharing a small box!

Well, my nerves got stretched when I saw all that fur fluff in their pen, but you just have to keep on going. I was thinking of splitting them up but I did not want to have my previous work be rendered undone.

They are happy together agaiin, with minor friction, mostly owing to Duffy’s inexperience with other rabbits.

here you can see Duffy starting a chase when Deirdra is grooming him, totally uncalled for. Then Deirdra gets mad about that.

but he tries. Here he is attempting to groom Deirdra, it starts out with chinning

here he wants grooms but isn’t getting any. Still he behaves, no nipping which shows me he is really settling in.

the split litterbox has helped them a lot, too, and I want to leave it divided for a while.

Yes, they are stuck together like triplets again except for when they get any fruit treats: Deirdra will chase Duffy to steal his share… and he lets her, he is not interested in fighting her again.

About the litterbox, I only wanted one litterbox to make my work easy and I needed a large box so they wouldn’t dump it out. Duffy was scared of Deirdra after their fight and I figured he might potty outside the box if Deirdra was using it. So I put up the divider. It also creates extra corners in the box which makes them use it more efficiently.

Thanks, that’s a nice compliment. I should like to come bond your rabbits and you can fix up my interiors to make my house pretty like yours

Yesterday the rain turned to snow here…

(this is my fox, I like him too)

and overnight it blanketed the yard. It means I have to start bonding again. It was just a random date I set myself: to try Neigey and Duffy again at the the first snow fall which came late this year.

The trio has no more poowars and Duffy is sharing cosely with Deirdra

I have been using a stuntdouble for a few days which I never did before.

Duffy is interested in the stuntdouble the most, when it comes back to him after it was with Neigey, he chins it lots. It did not cause a fight with Deirdra though.

Neigey is terrible to the stuntdouble; he digs at it, tosses it, growls, and bites it when it comes back from the trio.

The stunt double bunny was made for endurance. It is stuffed with cardboard.

The break from bonding helped us. It gave me some time to plan setups and figure out what was going on. Neigey gained weight and is in good condition for meeting the trio. The trio cemented well and Duffy has changed from being with other rabbits, in particular with Deirdra.

My plan to include Lint was trashed quickly: Neigey attacks Lint and in turn Duffy turns on Neigey… so I moved up the sessions to the quartet stage already. As long as Deirdra is around, Neigey will not fight any longer. Deirdra chases and nips at Neigey if he disturbs the trio. Neigey responds to this with submission and so I am able to have long sessions with all four in a neutral zone. The snow on the pastio is a distraction too. I am using hide-out opportunities like their tunnel from before that I had stored away  for a couple of weeks.

When Neigey was part of his trio with Lint and Deirdra, he was aggressive to Duffy in the quartet sessions I tried, possibly out of possessiveness. He would chase Duffy until he got to him. Now that Neigey is solo, he acts totally different towards Duffy: he backs down. 

I know these four can bond but I have no idea how Neigey will fit in.
 

the space I am using. Neigey is in there too, around the corner

I was very happy to see Neigey sitting still, not pursuing Duffy as he had done minutes before without Deirdra there.

They spent a couple of hours in this setup, one time Duffy nipped Neigey on the head, but rather than fighting on, they just broke from each other (below)

Yes, the snow is a good tool because it neutralizes the space I think. But sometimes it doesn’t even help. I remembered last November I bonded Mops and Neigey as part of the old quartet and Mops just kept on plowing into Neigey

Still they were a great bond in the end. I hope for the same for duffy and Neigey now.

Yes, Neigey’s name is a play on the french word for snow. Fiirst I wanted to call him Snowflake but I didn’t like the ‘flake’ part…even though it seems fitting now. He is definitely eccentric. ~

My approach is based on group dynamics now. I recognized three factors that apparently keep Duffy from attacking Neigey: Deirdra’s presence, small space and neutral grounds. As long as these factors are in place, I do not need to intervene.

They can choose to go out in the snow or to come inside. I only leave the door open for a max. of 45 minutes though. It is not that cold here yet but too cold for my rabbits to stay outside for prolonged periods. My rabbits are not acclimatized to endure cold. It’s just a fun intermission for them during a bonding session.

I put them outside on my patio on a mild day if it is sunny and there is no wind, but with the door open so they can hop inside. Indoor rabbits have a low tolerance for temperature change, it would be putting stress on their immune system to be outside and get really cold.

Duffy is starting to try and drive out Neigey. The calm phase is over, and now the upsets are beginning. My all-male quartet went through this stage as well. So I want to focus in on Duffy and Neigey with some additional paired sessions. They have a good time with being carried around in a litterbox together, no attacks from Duffy there.

Also, I tried different locations for the quartet sessions, but I still see the least tumult in the mudroom/patio setup.

I am using the closet below space mostly to rebond Neigey and Deirdra for occasional overnights because t seems too crowded for all four.

if they are blocked from the house and stuck on the patio results are less peaceful: Duffy was nasty during this session.

Neigey and Deirdra are starting to rebond but need more time. Neigey is scared of her.

this is a mudroom/patio session again, it works well. I wish I could leave them overnight like this but I can’t leave my backdoor open all night!!

bad setup: for some reason in the hallway Duffy kept going after Neigey relentlessly.

This is how scared Neigey is in the box with Duffy. He makes little stress noises whereas Duffy is munching away. With Neigey it seems there are only the two extremes: either he attacks or he is scared out of his skin. For their bonding the scared Neigey is better though. ~

I have to start thinking of a cementing solution… I have Neigey in the old trio in my bedroom in a pen and Duffy takes turns with Neigey being caged in Neigey’s cage when they are not in a session. This gives me an opportunity to modify the basement pen. Deirdra definitely has to rebond with Neigey, it is ironic that it is Lint who has no issues with anybun! I can put him wherever with anybun and no problems at all! No matter how long he was separated from Neigey — he is just fine with him even though Neigey and him were never the closest… I will never understand bunnies.

The novelty of the snow wears off over time but it does help to have different locations with different features I think

My rebonding of Deirdra and Neigey was shaping up to be a bigger task than the Duffy/Neigey bond. Neigey kept on going into a running frenzy whenever she was near in a small space. This this was a rerun of their previous bonding experience last year, and so I was sure Deirdra would not hurt him and that it would just wear off. I confined them together for half a day.

This is part of Neigey’s cage. Neigey would never defend his place to Deirdra, and I hoped that Deirdra, being highly territorial, would pipe down in his space. It worked, but Neigey took time to calm down: it was as if he anticipated her chasing him even though she did not.

here he was racing around her in circles but she didn’t do anything. She did neither nip nor pursue him.

I had to put Lint and Duffy somewhere other than the basement while Neigey and Deirdra rebonded. The basement I wanted to save for their cementing as four.

I continued using Neigey’s territory for the quartet even, because they can all tell it’s not their turf and I was sure Neigey at this point knows better than to start a fight.

and the bonding is starting to stick, after a six-hour session of Deirdra and Neigey I took a chance and put all four together in Neigey’s pen overninght. Neigey wanted to fight for his territory for a brief second: he looked so ticked off but he did not go through with it. He held up great all night: munching sometimes, even using the Duffy-trio’s litterbox. I did include two hide-outs for Neigey, one NIC shelf thing to sit up high, and a separate litter box tucked under a chair.

but Neigey insisted to use the Duffy-trio’s litterbox!

Duffy and Neigey were able to stand a short time in the litterbox together before Neigey felt he had to run away… and Duffy quickly chased after him for a second. But it happened several times during the night, and yet Neigey kept on coming  back. They are ready to stay together.

I will cement them for Halloween and get some videos too for this blog.

This bond has me ready for retirement! Even the cementing was touchy! I thought I’d have to separate again because of issues between Deirdra and Neigey. The first 24 hours were rough, with Neigey fleeing as soon as anybunny else stirred. There were no fights or anthing — Neigey was just on edge because he is new to the trio. I did not split them up. There is only so far you can get with sessions — at some point, when there is no more fighting, they have to figure out how to integrate. I knew they would not fight because Neigey knew to back down. He was in good condition so I thought he was ready to go through this phase. The trio is actually very tolerant of him, he just has to believe it. I added in tunnels with litter stations, several watering places and hay in different locations so he would be able to get basic access even if he wanted to hide.

Hiding was my theme in making their habitat.

Thanks Jersey, they did well posing for their first photo together

These are some clips from my various setups during last week’s sessions that really progressed this quartet bond. (you may need popcorn to sit through these)

the mudroom setup where Neigey was mortified but not attacking! 

Neigey just scared but Duffy getting interested

here Duffy is doing his chin-groom on Deirdra while Neigey sits by.. mortified

I continued the paired meetings Duffy/Neigey to ease Neigey’s fear

the open concept setup with patio access (it was a good session even though Neigey sufferered one of his famous panic attacks)

I tried many things. In lack of a chicken I used my rabbit-loving dog again.

here a very bad session, in a space that was too crowded

I still had to work on Deirdra/Neigey to repair their broken bond. I hated this part but it had to be done: confining Neigey with her to show him she really was not that mean! Neigey cannot tolerate close quarters with her well.

and another space without success (I’m posting these for member Karla to show her why I believe a new apartment will give her a new bonding game)

but the mudroom/patio setup worked

the I moved them into Neigey’s room. He was not going to fight with an entire trio for territory. He sat on his chair like a prince… judging the situation…

at last, countless sessions later, the cementing in the pen. Neigey is still careful around Duffy but it is wearing off with evey day that passes

I asked my dogs to show how I feel from all this bonding:

thank you. Maybe I will

Thank you, Little PT, I was getting tired of it… I just had to keep gping because people started offering me rabbits, neutered and ready to bond to be Neigey’s buddy… I caught myself imagining him with a buddy…. and realized that I would end up getting a fifth bunny if I didn’t bond him to Duffy’s trio. This gave me a new incentive. I do not want five rabbits.

Well, the third night of cementing was a charm! The quartet was able to eat their beloved pellets together without nips or lunges.

I AM mean! You have to be mean to bond these buggers Enzo is the best, he was my assistant, you really need an assistant. Duffy used to attack him, can you believe it?
Book would not work, you reallly need videos!
I would love to go to Denmark for the smoked salmon alone. But I know you can do it anyways, you just need a vacation first!

I was considering asking you for Karl after Mops had passed…. but that was before Duffy (I am kidding) but no more bunnies now!

I say one day soon Freddie will make a nice trio with your two and you will warm up to him!

Duffy and Neigey are finally relaxing around one another. Look how Duffy hops over to join him for some hay munching

and Neigey is beginning to integrate with the whole group.

Neigey is no longer hiding!

The trick stick was on of those Vitakraft Rabbit chew sticks with rose petals.
My four eat that entire rack of hay filled up twice a day… it’s crazy. I read somewhere that twenty Jackrabbits eat as much hay as one cow…

I started cementing the quartet’s bond one week ago. They have not left their pen since then.

The first two days Neigey was really separate but look now how well he is beginning to fit in. Granted, he is still a little spazzy around Duffy, not sure if he can really trust him, but it takes time.

Here Neigey hops into the litterbox with Duffy: but then gets scared

With Deirdra things are back to business as usual: she likes to chase Neigey sometimes and this is just how they are. It’s not like Neigey is always a sweetheart either, given the chance he will push the other rabits around too; Neigey likes to nip at Lint, always has.

Duffy is attached to Deirdra, he is totally into her, constantly chinning on her.

They are all bonded now.

No they do not appreciate it! The former Duffy trio does not actually like Neigey, they put up with him, that’s it.

Neigey reminds me of a little ram. Always one ear cocked and one folded back with his head down… he appears to be thinking something, something mean!

but I was able to get them down to two litterboxes. they sort of share now.

Pretty much. Neigey used to sleep in the tunnel behind the hayrack for the first three or four days. Now he sleeps on the NIC shelf looking down on the three that sleep on the carpeted area. The carpet seems to be a privileged spot. Duffy pairs up sometimes wiith either Lint or Deirdra for sleeping.

Deirdra used to love Neigey when Mops was still alive. She will do again.

Duffy and Neigey are still evolving, with some chasing from Duffy at times but they are beginning to settle in.

Lint is also not quite close to Neigey, he does not trust Neigey because Neigey can be mean.

I am Neigey’s buddy! We’re real close

What a surprise I found when I checked on the quartet yesterday.

I am glad I keep a camera by the rabbit pen because I saw this scene:

I knew something was about to go down….it looked as if Neigey wanted grooms from Deirdra …

but then Duffy groomed Neigey for the first time that I witnessed it!

I isolated the frames where Neigey freaked out to see what exactly happened and I think he just spooked, Duffy never nipped him as far as I can see.

this is what Duffy does right before Neigey flipped out:

here Neigey starts flinging around

Duffy looked in the video as if he went after him but he didn’t do anything bad:

he just pushed his nose into the fliging Neigey!

I thought these were kind of funny~

The amazing thing is that Deirdra was sitting right there and allowed it! She had been demanding space from Neigey before.

Duffy is my new groomer bun!!!!! Like Mops was!!!! Duffy grooms everybunny!!!

They are positively bonded.

I was wrong about the Duffy-trio not liking Neigey: Ever since I saw Duffy grooming Neigey I have noticed big changes: there is no more chasing. There are no poowars, no fur fluffs.

They are now sharing everything.

Thank you for following my bonding blog!

THE END

Petzy.

Nice caption, I did move the salt lick over to that area too~

Here is my encore! I see Duffy and Neigey together more and more! 

Lint and Deirdra have been close for a long time now even though their bonding was tedious.

Yesteray, when I brought their pellets, Neigey kept pushing Duffy’s head out of the way… then Duffy nipped Neigey quickly on the head, and Neigey squeaked one of his piggy squeaks. This quartet is a monkey house~

the brown things are just rocks. I use them sometimes to weight down the hay in their trough

I added in a new thing to the quartet’s pen, the binkybunny tunnel. It is Neigey’s new trick equipment for when he oversteps with Deirdra: he can pull a disappearing-white-rabbit-act. Deirdra does not allow him near goodies, she can get pretty mean, like an explosion of large rabbit madness, just plowing into him which sends him disappearing into the tunnel… but never for long! Neigey is a bully himself, so it’s OK.

Posted By RabbitPam on 11/18/2010 09:24 AM

I got the wreath and sort of scratched my head about what to do with it and how to give it to Sammy. I’m going to leave one on the floor later when she’s out and let her chew it for a while.

Sammy might like to wear the wreath on her head… like a Caesar bunny…

Mine ate the whole thing overnight.

So he made it into a Hawaiian petal skirt? That’s original!

LOL

No way! You actually have a photo of it!!! Is this a new weight loss idea? Oh wait: it is a weight gain idea as Dexter will have to eat it off of Dennis!!!

I never saw Dennis’ back from this angle, looks like he fell into a pit of soot on one of his adventures…

thanks Andi! You are back, now you have to get bonding…