you should try to take somthing and shoo her to her box like some cardboard or somthing.

Have you offered her a litter box in the living room? This will at least make it easier to pick her up and place her in it when she’s peeing. My buns hate to be picked up, but I find when one is peeing it’s actually pretty easy to do a quick scoop and place into the litter box.

I imagine the reason she’s peeing is that she’s unspayed her hormones have just kicked in. You may have seen the same behavior whether you took her to your parents’ or not, but I’m betting it’s age/hormone related. She probably just wants to mark the whole territory as hers. There’s not much you can do other than 1) confine her to a smaller space until she uses the box more consistently, 2) wipe up the pee and put the tissue you used into the litter box, along with any poops, and 3) clean up the area where she peed throroughly with a vinegar/water solution so it doesn’t smell like her pee anymore. Then get her spayed, which should help a lot as long as she hasn’t made peeing all over into a habit.

I would put a litter box in the living room, so you can quickly pick her up and set her in it when she’s peeing or has just finished peeing. She won’t understand if you have a long drawn out chase to the cage everytime.

Also, try to watch her body language to know when she’s peeing. Pooing is hard, but when they pee they’ll typically look off into space, stop twitching their noses, and lift their hind end/tail up. You won’t be able to catch it every time, but with enough observation you should be able to see her doing it much of the time and react quickly.

I’d arrange for the spay to happen sooner, the sooner its done, the sooner her litter habits should get better

Welcome!

It does sound like a combination of her age & being unspayed plus change in environment. I’m actually wondering if she’s picking up her own scent from before but not recognising it. If she was 4 months old when she moved to your parents – she may have just been becoming more hormonal. Now at 6 months she’s definately a teenage bunny. So I wonder if the full prescence of her hormones have changed her scent.

Anyway, it does sound like she is marking territory (especially if she targeted the area where her cage used to be.) I think the smaller area is a good idea – but also confining her to her cage more with only supervised play in the smaller area. Either in the bedroom or lounge, I think providing an extra litterbox is also a good idea. When she goes to it independantly, make a big fuss and reward her. Try get her used to the word “box” or litterbox. So you can give her an audio cue to go there when you think she’s about to toilet. I usually get behind them and softly clap my hands to herd them to their box.
As she is not fixed, it is probably not going to be a 100% success rate but it is good to help encourage better habits now than try correct bad habits that have become ingrained. (Believe me – I wish I was more strict on this!)

If the bedroom is more manageble for you, definately move her there and keep at training her. You may find she could relapse on the move back to your parents in June also – but again, confinement and allowing run space bit by bit will help, as will her spay.
 

Trust me, being unspayed is definitely part of it. The hormones make her scent wy different, and spaying her will get rid of that problem. My Monkey was marking with pee, not spraying, just peeing, before she got spayed. She’s much better now

Sorry! I misunderstood and thought you had meant 2 months instead of 2 weeks.

Any ideas on what to use as a litterbox, from the house?

If it’s only a temporary box, you could use an old plastic tub or basin, oven tray. Even a cardboard box cut down to size and wrap a garbage bag around it. Just be sure she doesn’t try eat it on her time out. What ever you use, put some of her litter in there along with some soiled litter.

I’m thinking perhaps when you see her about to toilet, you could bring the box to her…. If she hops in, praise her. Hopefully then she’ll know to go there. If she already toilets on the floor, it’s really too late then. You just have to clean that up and watch with an eagle eye for next time. I think this would help with peeing. Pooping around the place is territorial and should stop over time – though putting hay in her litterbox may help get most of it in there.
Good luck!

Bunnies can change what they enjoy doing. It wasn’t until recently that Monkey decided she loves shredding her phone book. She left it sitting there for a good 6 months without touching it lol. Yours may have just figured out she likes to dig

Agree with MB – she probably never realized how much fun it was to dig in a litter box! Haha. One of my buns won’t dig in the litter box in her cage. However, during bonding sessions, she really enjoys digging in the large litter box I put out. So sometimes bunnies just come up with new activities to keep them entertained.

I absoutely don’t think what you read means it’s impossible to litter train them ever. Just that it can be nearly impossible, with some bunnies, to litter train them if they have a lot of space. Meaning you can’t litter train them *while* they have that large space. Reducing their available space usually fixes the problem.

I think you also need to get her spayed. You may never get her much more litter trained than she is now until she’s spayed.

I would give her more room when she’s peeing in the litter boxes every time. Poo might never be under control, but pee should be before you let her out. At that point, letting her out in the bedroom should be fine.

Posted By Bougatsa on 04/19/2010 08:50 AM
Oh okay….Noah’s a digger then
Well about pooping… I’ve been reading older posts and posts of other wesites and at some I read that if the bunny has a free run to a large room or to the whole house straight away then it’s impossible to litter train him/her. Is that true? Cause Noah was free in our large living room and kitchen the past 2 months as she’d always use her litter box. Does this mean that she’ll never be litter trained now that I keep her in a lot smaller area???

It is easier to litter train a bunny at first when it only has a limited space, but it does not mean at all, that it cannot work if the bunny has free run from day 1. It might just take more time, as it requires perhaps more of you to make her understand that she should go in the litterbox and not somewhere else. So no worries about it. She used to be litter trained, so she will be easily litter trained again.

And a little update; I saw her peeing in the 2nd litter box twice today but none in the cage litter box. She poops like before…even more I might say! Today she run in circle around me leaving poop. How much time does it take? Or am I being too impatient??

That part there sounds like hormones…once she is spayed, the hormones should settle within a month or so.

Last question. When and IF I ever see she’s using both litterboxes regularly what do I do to give her more space?? Do I let her free run of my bedroom or it would too much? And what about the second litter box? Can I ever remove it?

Yes, you can remove the litterbox. But perhaps just start moving it closer to the cage/x-pen/permanent litterbox, and see how it goes. And yes, you can definintely let her have free run of your bedroom – just make sure that there aren’t anything she can chew when you are not there. I let mine have free access to the whole place (except at night time, because they make too much noise, so at night they most often only have access to one big room). I have let them have free run after 3-4 days, when I felt that they knew that the cage is their private area. For some reason, Molly needed to have free run before she got the hang of using the litter box, e.g.

Wait… your vet says its unnecessary to get her spayed?

…get a new vet. This one knows nothing of rabbits.

You don’t suck The vet is just not right…I cannot believe a vet will say this. Does he not care about the fact that up to 80% of all does die of cancer in the reproductive organs by the age of 4? That they are constantly sexually frustrated which leads to a high level of stress?

I think you ought to find a vet, who knows more about rabbits.

You know, Molly was difficult as well. I had to give her all her food in the toilet box to get her used to it to poop in it. Also, I would give her a treat every time she was in the toilet (it did require a lot of time, as I needed to be around the litterbox constantly). If she actually pooped or peed in the litterbox, she would get lots of treats and lots of praises. Within shortly, if I walked into the room, she would race into the litter box and beg for treats You have to make sure she likes being in the litterbox. I understand that you cannot shoo her into it? Why is that? I really don’t recommend lifting her into the litterbox as she will not associate it with something good.

Since she used to be litter trained, I would make sure that it is not because of a smell in the room that she does not like. Have you washed the floor and walls down with perhaps water and vinegar?

I really don’t recommend lifting her into the litterbox as she will not associate it with something good.

I agree. If you do need to pick her up, put her down near the box them prompt her into it.

Her litter habits are not going to improve overnight I’m afraid – but it will get better. If her cage is a good size, you may want to keep her in it for a few days to really help getting her back to using the box. Cleaning up and messes in there with vinegar and water, then putting it all into the litterbox. You may need to put her elsewhere while you do this. They can become a bit protective about their personal spaces.

It sounds like getting into the cage is not the nicest thing for her the way it is done. Also, she probably doesn’t want to get into the cage because she is afraid to be caged, so she will rather just poop and pee anywhere else.

Why don’t you just show her some treats and that way let her into the cage? Or throw in some nice veggies? So she will get in on her own because she actually wants to.

Mine have the exact same setup as yours do. Perhaps you could post a picture of the cage setup and we can see if there is anything else you can do in there?

Ι dont know how to post the picture. If you could tell me how I’de be happy to.

Instead of just replying by using the box on this page, you should use the “Add reply” just over the box. And then you click on “attachments”.

I also put veggies in the litter box but still… Look, while she’s out she does go in and out of her cage. She goes in to eat some hay or veggies, maybe poop at the same time just because she is eating. She wont get in in order to poop or pee. And she’s never been territorial of her cage as she lets me clean it while she is in and also pet her while she lies in it.
Will showing the way to the cage with treats do any good? Doesnt it seem like rewarding her for pooping/peeing outside? I have a very easy way to make her come in the cage – crackle the food pellets’ bag. But this is rewarding a behavior. Isnt it?

Okay, good that she does get her food inside the cage. Because that is a big help. You need to invest some time in this, but then I am sure it will work out for you. Whenever you see her lifting her tail, it means she is about to pee or poop. So, the second you see this, you cracle the pellets bag as that seems to get her into the cage. Once she is inside, then give her some pellets, and make sure she pees. If she doesn’t, then you know you just have to watch her again, as she will try again soon. It is a matter of getting her into the habit of using the litterbox, so the more often she does it, the quicker she will get a hang of it.

Maybe I could push her a bit withou picking her up? Just block the way and push her to the right direction so she wont be able to turn and run?

I really think you should try an approach that is less frigtening…it’s just that I can imagine you wanting her to get into the cage now, so you will run over to her, she will get frightened by the sudden move, and may not be happy about being pushed as well. Do you pick up her poo instantly and throw it back into the cage? And the same with the pee? Don’t give up hope. It took a long time to teach Molly to be litter trained, but then again I might have had the same issue as you do now, because Molly was not spayed when I got her, so it took a while before her hormonal level was low.

Posted By Bougatsa on 04/20/2010 02:38 AM

He is not my vet, my brother went to ask something about his canary and I just asked him about why she’s acting this way and if it is about her being unspayed. He said that I shouldnt spay a bunny for a reason like that(bad litter habits).
No, every smell is the same I havent changed anything in the house, and I clean it the same way as before. I use vineger more now when she pees outside. But the day we returned she forgot her good habits.
Do you think it’s normal to take this long? Is it possible that it can take weeks? Maybe it is just impossible until she gets spayed. But on the other hand I cant stop thinking that even if I spay her she’ll continue doing this. Yeah I know I’m losing my hope, maybe too soon. that’s me
 

I agree that you don’t spay FOR litter habits.  You spay because of the high risk of uterine cancer in unspayed females.  There is always the chance that litter habits are not going to be perfect, even post-spay, but more often than not, they improve greatly.  She is right at that point where her hormones are surging, and even post-spay, it will take some time for the levels to drop off.

The picture does not work…I cannot see it. Try again

Well, if the box is big enough for a bowl as well, then try. But you may risk her peeing in the bowl though, so check it a few times a day. I was actually just thinking handfeeding her, but if this was a case of learning Molly to be litter trained, then I would say to you: Yes, put the bowl in the litterbox as well! Might as well give it a go, and see how it works out. Molly was and is completely driven by food, and if you are lucky, so is Noah.

I know it is hard work, but she has proved before to be litter trained, so she will be again, I’m sure. Right now you just need to invest a lot of time, but it will be worth it. Spend as much time as you possible can around her, so you can quickly get her back into the litter box before any accidents happen.

It’s not supposed to be a reward for pooping outside, because you should do it BEFORE she pees/poops outside the cage. About the hay in the cage, well, that was exactly what I had to do with Molly. And the same for her greens. They poop and eat at the same time, so every poop needed to be in the litterbox for her to learn it and that is why she was fed in the litterbox as well for a good while.

How much poop are we talking about? Just a few, or a lot?

Don’t expect miracles in a few days. Peeing is the biggest problem, I suspect, so go for that one first. The pooping can be more difficult as they have a tendency to fall out of them as they jump, as you may have realised. Mine even do that when they jump out of the cage, so I still have poo around the cage, though nothing much, but clearly because they think they can jump out of the cage AND poop at the same time. Multi-tasking, you know

Also, it might just be a territorial thing. I cannot remember now – she is caged, when you are not there, right? And how many hours is this?

You will eventually. I was just wondering that perhaps she was out most of the day and perhaps she considered the whole place her territory because of this.

Well, there is not one right way of litter training a bunny and we all have to try various approaches when one of our bunnies aren’t picking up on it easily. I would actually just pick up her poop and not get her back into the cage if she has pooped – only if you see she is about to do it. So focus on getting her into the cage, when you can see her lift her tail to pee. You wrote that you haven’t seen her lift the tail, so another sign is that she gets into a corner and sits still…

It is a stressful time for you now that you have to keep such an eye on her, but I really believe it will be for the better. And hopefully, the spay will do a lot as well, if it is territorial. Did you reschedule it for May? And continue to give her treats when she is in the toilet and lots of praises and treats when ever she uses it correctly.

Since you are Greek, I just have a question for you about a translation, so I am going to send you a private message in a second (to keep private questions out of this thread)

Well, don’t expect her to get it straight away. But if you have a feeling that she hasn’t finished peeing, then keep her in the cage for a few minutes and then let her out again.

If it continues, I think you should cage her for the next 3 days. Don’t let her out, although it will be hard for both of you. If I remember correctly, you said she used the litter box perfectly when she is in the cage? So, she definitely gets it. I think it is territorial due to hormones. I don’t really think it has anything to do with your moving, but more the fact that she is reached sexual maturity, and so it will be a bit of a struggle until she is spayed.

In my case, it also helped to wash the floor every day and move things around. Also, is it a specific corner? If it is, then try to keep her from it.

You could get another litter pan and just set it there with some litter and hay to see if she uses it. That way, she’ll have both and you won’t have to keep track of where it is or confuse her. She may eventually use only one.

I had read that sometimes they “underline their signature” with urine. That is they mark with poop and underline with pee. So peeing in front of her cage could be her way of defining that this is her space. I agree with Karla – cage her for a few days with no time out. It doesn’t have to be a bad experience for her, make her cage a good place to be. Give treats there and pets if she’ll allow it while she’s in there. Or back off if she prefers no one intrude on her space there.

The reason we usually recommend caging the bunny for a few days when you first get it home (or if litter issues occur) is that you teach the bunny that the cage is her territory. And only the cage, nothing else. The rest of the place is your territory, so she should not mark anywhere else.

Mine have never been cage aggressive either. To me, it doesn’t make a difference. I am not rude to family or friends either, although they sometimes come at unconvenient times and stay for the whole weekend without notice…the same with your bunny Although she doesn’t tell you to butt out of her cage, you still interfere with her home, so that it doesn’t completely feel like her home, but a place she shares with you…and so what is the difference between her cage and the rest of your apartment to her?

Mine are 100% litter trained today and yes, I do change their water bottle sometimes when they are inside the cage eating. I do occassionally also reach in and pet one of them. But should they ever begin to mark outside the litterbox, I would stop messing with their cage, as the boundaries between cage and outside cage would have to be properly established again. Like you have to do now.

And yes, I know you think it is hard to cage her. I’ve been there. I know how it feels. But if this may help, then it really is worth it

It is not too late. But this is not a bullet-proof method since she is not spayed. And you have to prepare yourself for the fact that she might get worse right after the spay due to hormones.

There is no right solution that applies for every bunny, unfortunately. With my first bunny, I did pet him for his 3-day confinement, with Molly who took ages to be litter trained, I did not do it. She was a challenge and there was actually no point at all in taking the risk.

As mentioned before, it is only a confinement of 3 days. And as I said, I pet mine and change their water bottle although they are in their cage. But it depends on your bunny. Some bunnies are fine with it, and others aren’t. You have to find out yourself if she is fine with it, and if you are willing to spend extra time confining her, if she isn’t fine with it, because you then have to start all over again.

But jerseygirl says that I can pet her in her cage if she lets me. What should I do??

haha! Don’t listen to me. It’s probably one of the things I do too much – interfere with their space! My rabbits aren’t caged but they do have areas in the home that is theirs. I am currently working with my girl to improve her litter habits and one thing I do err on is being in their space too much.
I guess the treats+petting was my thoughts on making it nice for her, but if she likes her cage, it’s not a punishment. Karla, that was a really good way of putting it (tolerating relatives but not necessarily liking it.) I should know better as I’m really big on having my space myself!

Bougatsa, you’ve mentioned the out of cage times Noah gets before. That is a really decent amount of time – I would not feel bad about that. For the litter training confinement, it is only temporary – so again, don’t feel bad about her lack of exercise time.

Oh, that’s good she likes her cage. It makes us feel less bad about shutting them in it. I have the same problem, I miss them more than they miss me!

She pooped a bit outside but not at all inside…

Do you mean she didn’t use her box in the cage during the 1-2 hours?

Once she’s pooped, there is not much point getting her to the box as the deed is done. The prompting to the box is really for peeing as you can often tell when they are about to do it. The 3-4 poops is territorial droppings and this will just lessen in time. The only thing you can really do there is put them back in the box. If she did a whole pile in one spot, that would be a different story. I think the confinement has helped some from what you’ve said. She might need a bit longer than 3 days if you find her habits regress.
They can have certain times that they do their business too. I find mine pee more in the evening. So watch for any pattern and let her out in the times when she’s less likely to pee.

I would increase the space gradually and once you do give her the whole space, you might opt for a second litterbox.

What are you planning to you as her permanent habitat? Will she have an entire room? If so, use two litterboxes for her.

Dangerous surgery meaning a spay? If done by an experienced rabbit savvy vet, there is minimal danger to it. And she’ll be much happier after its done. I know my Monkey is!

I think that sounds fine. Ideally, there wouldn’t be any stray poops, but for an unaltered bun, that is probably the best you can hope for. In my mind, poop is really not that big of a deal. It’s small, it’s dry. At least it’s not a big, icky dog or cat poop!

I was worried about my baby girl’s spay at first too. But she came through just fine And I agree with Beka, a few stray poos isn’t a huge deal, especially for an unaltered bunny. Its good progress!

And really, altered buns will still either leave stray poos here and there, or they get kicked out when they hop in and out of the litterbox. Pee is the thing that you really, really want contained in the box.

Do you think it’s getting any better??

I do!

At this time I only have one female, so my experience is limited. Molly was not spayed when I got her, but I had it done after a few days. Of all my bunnies, she has been the hardest to litter train, most likely because it took a couple of months before her hormonal level was low enough for her to stop the marking. It was such a struggle. She clearly understood what it was about ‘cause she had no problems at all using the litterbox if she was confined in her own cage, however, as soon as she was in the other cage, which had originally been used by my male, she forgot all about good litter habits. And yes, she would pee and poop everywhere …and yes, it was clearly due to marking. The reason I say it was marking and not bad litter habits, is that she would only do it in the room with the cages and their food, although my bunnies are free roaming. She has never had problems outside the bunny room, so it is not a matter of her not being able to hold herself

Today, she does not have any accidents at all. It took a couple of months, but eventually it stopped. I did however also put in a lot of effort to teach her not to do it and back then I considered it to be bad litter habits, but looking back I am convinced it was due to hormones.

Do the droppings smell a lot?

Do you only want her spayed due to the marking/litter training habits? Because I think there are reasons that far outweigh these factors.

She may have bad litter habits. It is difficult to say, because I don’t know exactly how you have dealt with it.

I do know though that if you want your female as a house pet, you really should do it. Even if we say, that her bad litter habits are due to 60% wrong litter training and 40 % hormones, those 40 % will definitely be worth not having to deal with once she is spayed. Also, once her hormones are down to a lower level, she will be much easier to litter train, and so the 60 % due to wrong litter training could be fixed.

As far as I know both females and males mark, but they do it from different reasons and in different ways. Females do it to attract males, and males do it to mark their territory.

Females will most likely do it very close to the cage , whereas males will do it in a much larger area. From what I have heard and which is actually supported by my own experience. My intact male would mark the whole apartment, whereas Molly stuck with the area around the cage. 

And trust me, I do take bad litter habits seriously, and I know why it is important to you. Noboy wants their floorings ruined because of pee or having a smelly home. I can assure you that everybody in my household was very relieved once Molly stopped the constant marking!
 

Do females actually mark??? Every vet here says that this is only male behavior

]I wonder if the people you have asked think you are referring to spraying with urine (like dogs mark with pee) ? Mostly males will spray a female rabbit, their owners and sometimes another male. Marking with territorial droppings and sometimes with pee is something both sexes do. They scent the poop and it’s an important way of communicating. Even new mothers will leave marked poop with their kits so that the kits will recognize her. They rely on their sense of smell the most when first born. So I say yes, both sexes mark.

My girl (who was spayed at the time) absolutely marked with poo and pee when beginning the bonding process.

Go for it! Make the appointment.

Posted By Bougatsa on 05/18/2010 01:37 PM

But I’m doing it in July. Does it matter? I mean for the litter habits? Will they become permanent?

It won’t matter. July is fine. Yes, go for it!

I have to add that after hitting puberty her poop smell different..not a good smell!! Before I’d never notice it, nor my brother. Now the second day after cleaning her bathroom it smell bad and we both notice it and I’m like ” I cleaned it up yesterday!”. So is this what you are talking about jerseygirl?? So I do believe that the pooing has to do with hormones no matter what those vets told me.

Yes. The territorial droppings have a sort of shiny look to them too. Some members have described the smell as a cross between onions and body odour if that helps you identify it. 

I do wonder if you are giving her a bit too much freedom. I would try restrict her run space and make sure you have an extra litterbox there for her to use. Believe me, I know it’s hard to do this when you have given them so much room before. It won’t be forever, just until the habits improve.

Imagine having a pet for lets say 7 years and having to clean up urine and poop each and every day of those years!

I do, I DO!! 

I would spay her sooner then to stay alive, i.e. so your mother won’t be upset with you or the bunny. By the end of June her hormones will have already changed quite subsantially if you have it done next week.

I would absolutely spay as soon as possible!!! This way once she does calm down and as her litter habits improve, your family will only experience the POSITIVE aspect of having a bunny, and none of the negative!