bonding Mocha + Lulu am i getting any were?

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BINKYBUNNY FORUMS

This topic has 139sd replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 15 years, 10 months ago by mocha200.

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- 04/14/2010 at 11:21 AM
  mocha200
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  Day 1 14 April 2010 15 min.
  
  we put them on the dryer for about 15 min in the cube. At first they were a little scared but in about a minute lulu was on her hind legs looking over the top of the cube. Then Mocha started to hump. I pushed him off and a few seconds latter he did it again so i pushed him off. They sat there side by side for awail, and lulu looked over the edge some more then mocha humped her again i pushed him off and he did this weird thing were he stuck his hole head over the of her head it looked as if he was about to hump but he just sat there. Then he humped her again. (poor Lulu) Then they just sat there and lulu went close to him and they sat there side by side, so i thought i should end it. what do you think that weird thing was when he put his head on top of hers was? if he just humps her and no bighting or anything else happens should i try the tube?
- 04/14/2010 at 11:38 AM
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  Oh good. There was no fighting! When they put their head over top of the other rabbit it is a dominance stance. Good thing Lulu took it all well. This was a short session, and you will need to do more sessions like this. Repetition is key. I know you want them bonded by the time you go on your trip but focus on the rabbits now, let them dictate the pace. What do you mean by tube?
- 04/14/2010 at 11:55 AM
  mocha200
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  sorry spelling mistake i meant the bathtub. hehe sorry
- 04/14/2010 at 12:02 PM
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  LOL!
  
  Yes, you could try them in the bathtub, too.
- 04/14/2010 at 12:05 PM
  mocha200
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  should i stop him when he does that head thing?
- 04/14/2010 at 12:06 PM
  mocha200
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  maybe i will try it tonight.
- 04/14/2010 at 12:12 PM
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  The head thing is fine, it’s all good as long as the other one tolerates it. You have to let these things go on if they are relatively peaceful. — Remember that rabbits can’t talk like us, so during bonding they have to use body gestures and actions to figure each other out. The only time you want to stop them is if an action bothers the other bunny to the point of getting very annoyed. A little annoyed is OK, see if Lulu will let Mocha know when she’s had enough. You know your rabbits’ personalities best. Is Lulu bigger than Mocha?
- 04/14/2010 at 4:40 PM
  mocha200
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  lulu seems to put up with it should i wet him hump then? um they are pretty much the same maybe Lulu is a bit longer. so they are pretty much the same size cuz shes a dutch and he is a holland lop. think i should try the bathtube then? i think i might.
- 04/14/2010 at 4:41 PM
  mocha200
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  oops i did bathtube again. sorry bathtub
- 04/15/2010 at 8:17 AM
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  As a rule, interfere as little as possible with their actions as long as their actions don’t lead to fighting. If Lulu lets him hump — let Mocha continue humping. He will get it out of his system soon. Just make sure Mocha does not hump her head in case she nips him. Try the bathtub and see how it goes. You can always put them in the cube again. Trying sessions in new places is the only way to move things along.
  Nice pictures! Lulu is beautiful, I didn’t know she had dutch markings. How pretty.
- 04/15/2010 at 8:19 AM
  Elrohwen
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  I am bad at that rule, Petzy! I’m an interferer.
  
  Good luck in the bathtub, Mocha!
- 04/15/2010 at 8:53 AM
  mocha200
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  Day 2 15 april 2010 15-30 min.
  
  today i started out on the dryer for about 5 minutes nothing happened no humping or anything so i put them in the tub. at first they hoped around lulu was real curious mocha just followed her and humped her a little, then mocha went in a corner and sat there. lulu and mocha sat side bye side for awhile and nothing happened, but lulu kept sticking her head under mocha’s and asked too be groomed a little latter she did this and got tired of waiting and desided to groom him!!!!!! i couldn’t believe it! she started on his ear went up to his head then on to his back, then she started humping him ( every time she humped him she would bight and take out soom of his hair) I pushed her off cuz mocha was trying to get her off, but as soon as i pulled her off she did it again and again and again! finally after i pulled her off the last time a petted her to calm her down. Then she asked for more grooming didn’t get any and humped him again i pulled her off then she groomed him a little more then started to hump again. i thought i should end it cuz i didn’t think things would get better so i pushed them together and petted them and ended it.
  
  i know i probably should let her hump him but he looked so scared. at least i got some grooming i didn’t get any pics cuz are camera card was full and i didn’t have a helper this time cuz my mom woke up with a fever.
- 04/15/2010 at 9:05 AM
  Elrohwen
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  That sounds about like my first tub session. Lol. These girls and their humping! It’s certainly not very ladylike. I think you did a good job of putting them together and petting them before ending it.
  
  Not sure if it’s the best thing to do, but when Hannah gets in that frantic humping mode I put them in the laundry basket and shake them up for a minute. It seems to break her train of thought. If she continues to be a crazed humper in your next session that might help settle her down.
  
  And for what it’s worth I’m not good at letting them hump like crazy either. Calm humping I’m ok with, but the frantic humping just seems to cause issues with my two.
- 04/15/2010 at 9:10 AM
  mocha200
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  yeah i thought about puting them back in the petzy cube but as i was caring them into the bathroom the petzy cubes zipties snaped and pat of the bottom came off. and i can’t fix it cuz i ran out of sip ties.
- 04/15/2010 at 9:11 AM
  Elrohwen
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  Do you have a laundry basket you can use until you can fix your Petzy Cube?
- 04/15/2010 at 9:14 AM
  mocha200
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  yeah i think so it just doesn’t have as many holes to look out of.
- 04/15/2010 at 9:21 AM
  Elrohwen
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  That’s ok, the holes don’t really matter, especially if you’re only doing it for a minute or two to shake them up.
- 04/15/2010 at 9:23 AM
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  Just use some wire to tie the bottom back onto the cube, or even a household twine. your grids came without the connectors, did they?
  Tie it like in this picture the lid is tied. It works even without connectors.
- 04/15/2010 at 9:26 AM
  mocha200
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  yeah they did. i will try that. i think i might do another session tonight and see if it goes better. should i try banana on the head?
- 04/15/2010 at 9:34 AM
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  oh, yes, I forgot about that. For some rabbits it really works. don’t be alarmed if they ignore it, but it won’t hurt at all.
- 04/15/2010 at 9:36 AM
  mocha200
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  ok. how will i know when they are ready to go to a bigger place? ( i don’t think it will be any time soon though, but you never know)
- 04/15/2010 at 9:38 AM
  Elrohwen
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  I chose to move my two to a bigger place when they were totally calm in the tub. There was no humping, no chasing, etc – they just hung out and were boring 😛 At that point there wasn’t any more progress that they could make in the tub, so I moved them out. I probably could’ve moved them out faster, but I’m all about going slow and getting one stage down before moving to the next.
- 04/15/2010 at 9:40 AM
  Elrohwen
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  Also, if your buns are set on humping, I don’t know that they need to be done humping totally before you move to a large space, but I would want them to be to the point where one humps and one mostly accepts it. If the humpee is still getting freaked out and/or aggressive about it, I would keep working in the tub with some stressing sessions.
- 04/15/2010 at 9:40 AM
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  you never know. I like that you are akready thinking about the next step.
  
  Today during your bathtub session with them, you should see some clues; if they spend the time peacefully and in harmony with grooms, or if they loaf around ignoring each other or even if they get nippy — whatever it will be, it will give you an idea where they are at. Even if they are peaceful and getting along, I would not move to a bigger place until you have done a week’s worth of small-space sessions in the bathtub. The reason for this is that the more familiar they are with each other, the less likely they will have a bad fight in the bigger space.
- 04/15/2010 at 9:41 AM
  mocha200
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  ok. hopefully there wont be as much humping tonight as there was this morning. but it will probably take awail. does your two groom alot?
- 04/15/2010 at 9:44 AM
  Elrohwen
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  Hannah has licked Otto on the head once (not even a full groom, just like two licks) and Otto hasn’t groomed her. I’m hoping grooming happens before I move them out of the hallway. They both ask for grooms, but neither has gotten upset about the lack of grooming yet.
- 04/15/2010 at 9:45 AM
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  Posted By Elrohwen on 04/15/2010 09:40 AM
  Also, if your buns are set on humping, I don’t know that they need to be done humping totally before you move to a large space,
  
  Many rabbits are never quite done humping and the rabbit who is getting humped might never quite enjoy it but you can still move to a larger space. Sometimes a larger space gives the rabbit who is getting humped a way out. It can actually reduce the humping. It depends. Observe your rabbits in the bathtub well, and if you have a helper, take some photos too.
- 04/15/2010 at 9:46 AM
  Elrohwen
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  Very true, Petzy.
- 04/15/2010 at 9:49 AM
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  Don’t be too concerned about grooming and humping, mocha 200. All you need to worry about is that there are no fights.
- 04/15/2010 at 9:51 AM
  mocha200
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  ok. i might take some pics tonight. maybe you guys could get a better idea on whats going on.
- 04/15/2010 at 9:52 AM
  mocha200
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  well no fights so far… hopefully none to come.
- 04/15/2010 at 1:46 PM
  mocha200
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  day 2 bonding session 2 30 min.
  
  i started out with them in a basket and i bounced them around on my nees and put them in the tub.
  
  nothing really happened for the first few minnutes they just hopped arround, then mocha humped her i didn’t do any thing this time, then theey walked around and lulu sat in the corner and mocha humped her on and off for about the whole time. but when he would stop humping he would stand there as if garding her from me saying ( my bunny don’t touch) then he would hump again.
  
  one time when he was atempting humping he found the banana on her head and licked it off! then he humped some more.
  
  about 20 minutes into it she got tired and started running away when he tried for a minute or to they went in circles arround the tub, mocha chasing lulu, then mocha humped her again and she got up and hoped away he tried to hump her again but she turned arround and bit him then she ran and bit him again so i put them in the basket and shook them arround again.
  
  when i put them back in the tub mocha and lulu were sniffing really fast. ( i think they were getting hot ) so then mocha floped! i am not sure if it was really a flop but he layed down. they weren’t next to eachother so i desided to put my kitten in the tube with them. nothing really happend she just licked the banana off lulus head. so i took her out and put them togather and petted them and ended the session.
- 04/15/2010 at 1:56 PM
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  You did a great job. This is all still going well. I can understand that Lulu got tired of all that humping. Mocha is a little obsessed with her for now but it will pass. Great idea to put the kitten in (I see in your albums that your cat is very much used to the rabbits).
  Did Mocha get bit hard or just nipped?
  They must have been stressed out from all that humping and the new place (bathtub). You can repeat this type of session, they will want to discover other ways of being together besides humping.
- 04/15/2010 at 2:02 PM
  mocha200
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  i think it was just a nip like ” get away or else” type of nip. yeah my buns are used to cat cuz we have 5 so they are used to it. i though if i put the cat in there mochas mind wouldn’t be on humping it would be on ” whys that cat in here?”
- 04/15/2010 at 2:30 PM
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  you have 5 cats? wow. That cat in the bathtub session definitely makes a good distraction.
  I love the second picture. Lulu seems rather tolerant for a female bun.
- 04/15/2010 at 2:41 PM
  mocha200
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  yeah my mom loves cats and so do my sisters and me my dad likes them but he does like to snuggle with them. if they jump up on his lap purring he will just look at them he wont pet them. the way lulu is sitting in the second picture is the way se sat the whole time he humped on her. shes a good bun.
- 04/16/2010 at 10:50 AM
  mocha200
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  Day three 16 april 2010 40 min.
  
  we started out in the basket for about 30 seconds then put them in the tub. nothinig really happened at first they just hopped around mmocha tried to hump but lulu kept running away. he humped about 4-5 times but thats it cuz lulu was running away. i put some hay in there and a towle cuz they could barley walk it was so slippery. when mocha tried to hump lulu she would turn arround and nip. is that bad? and lulu floppedit was so cool! then things got kind of borring so we desided to put them in the x pen in the living room. they walked arround and explored but mocha kept tring to hump but every time she would turn arround and nip and when mocha was just sitting there she would stick her head under his stomach and bight him! it didn’t seem to bother mocha though. then lulu got humppy and tried to hump him then they kinda got into a thing like “who can hump who first” kind of thing so i did forced snuggles and ended it.
  
  it kind of made me sad that lulu is bighting now is this just a faze? i will post pics soon!
  
  see her flop below
  
  Day three 16 april 2010 40 min.
  
  we started out in the basket for about 30 seconds then put them in the tub. nothinig really happened at first they just hopped around mmocha tried to hump but lulu kept running away. he humped about 4-5 times but thats it cuz lulu was running away. i put some hay in there and a towle cuz they could barley walk it was so slippery. when mocha tried to hump lulu she would turn arround and nip. is that bad? and lulu floppedit was so cool! then things got kind of borring so we desided to put them in the x pen in the living room. they walked arround and explored but mocha kept tring to hump but every time she would turn arround and nip and when mocha was just sitting there she would stick her head under his stomach and bight him! it didn’t seem to bother mocha though. then lulu got humppy and tried to hump him then they kinda got into a thing like “who can hump who first” kind of thing so i did forced snuggles and ended it.
  
  it kind of made me sad that lulu is bighting now is this just a faze? i will post pics soon!
- 04/16/2010 at 10:55 AM
  mocha200
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  oh yeah and when mocha got a little humpy in the tub i put our kitten in there again.
- 04/16/2010 at 11:01 AM
  Elrohwen
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  When she puts her head under his stomach, are you sure she’s biting? Hannah will do this, but she’s just trying to get grooms. It doesn’t phase Otto and he’ll eventually move away. I think that’s pretty normal.
  
  When Mocha humps and she turns around to nip, does she actually get him? Or is it just a snap in the air? She’s probably telling him that she isn’t ok with the humping anymore and as long as it’s a warning snap and doesn’t start a fight it should be ok. Otto was doing this to Hannah in our earlier sessions because he did not want to be humped anymore. You just want it to stay at the “communication” phase and not get to the brawling phase, if that makes sense.
  
  Are you still doing stunt doubles? I remember Petzy advising someone else to offer stunt doubles during a session to see if the humpy bun could get out their humps on a toy instead of the other bun.
  
  eta: I love the flop picture!
- 04/16/2010 at 11:05 AM
  mocha200
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  i am pretty sure she nips him cuz she does this all the time in the tub but out here you could kinda tell. somtimes she will get him somtimes not. i should try the stunt doubble.
- 04/16/2010 at 11:07 AM
  Elrohwen
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  What does he do when she nips?
- 04/16/2010 at 11:11 AM
  mocha200
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  when she sticks her head under he soes nothing ( so she might not be bighting) but when she turns arround and nips he kinda runs away.
- 04/16/2010 at 11:12 AM
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  I think your kitten is the best stunt double even though she’s not really there to be humped. She is a distraction/stressor. The nipping under the flank is a phase. It’s annoyong and can last a while. Your rabbits seem very calm in the sessions and this is good. The humping and flank-nipping will get sorted out. keep up these sessions just as you have been doing them, with and without cat, but be extra watchful when placing them in the pen; that’s where a fight would most likely happen.
- 04/16/2010 at 11:13 AM
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  To add, the nips are a positve interaction, too, because they are nips and not full-blown bites. They let each other know their boundaries with these nips.
- 04/16/2010 at 11:16 AM
  mocha200
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  when i first let them in the pen they ran around and it looked like mocha was going to binky. oh i forgot to say there was a little grooming in the tub form both but i am not possitive its hard to tell.
- 04/16/2010 at 11:18 AM
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  Your rabbits are being very good about all this. Keeping figers crossed that you can have them bonded before your trip!
- 04/16/2010 at 11:19 AM
  mocha200
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  realy? i feel like i am not getting any were.
- 04/16/2010 at 11:20 AM
  Elrohwen
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  Wow, grooming is great news!
  
  I agree with Petzy that nipping is ok because they’re just trying to communicate with each other. It sounds like no fighting is breaking out and they’re both remaining calm about things, so that’s really good!
- 04/16/2010 at 11:22 AM
  mocha200
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  did i put them in the pen to early? it just seemed like nothing was happening.
- 04/16/2010 at 11:22 AM
  mocha200
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  imean when they were in the tub nothing was happening
- 04/16/2010 at 11:25 AM
  Elrohwen
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  I would work more in the tub. I think having long relaxed sessions is important for them to realize they can trust the other bun. I would work up to hour long sessions in the tub and do a couple of those first. I’d rather go slow and give them lots of positive time with each other than move to fast and have to backtrack.
  
  eta: I’m a cautious bonder though – if nothing is happening in the tub it might be perfectly fine to move them to the pen. Just remember that if they do start fighting or something, you can always move back a step and do some stressing and tub sessions.
- 04/16/2010 at 11:26 AM
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  Mocha, nothing happening means they are tolerating each other and that is a huge step in the right direction! You are just being anxious.
- 04/16/2010 at 11:28 AM
  mocha200
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  so i shouldn’t do the pen next time?
- 04/16/2010 at 11:30 AM
  mocha200
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  well my mom was helping me and she thought that they were doing good to. maybe i will wait to do the pen till there isn’t much humping in the tub.
- 04/16/2010 at 11:34 AM
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  good plan. but it was wise to try the pen to see their ways with each other.
- 04/16/2010 at 11:36 AM
  mocha200
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  hopefully they do better tonight.
- 04/16/2010 at 11:48 AM
  Elrohwen
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  I’ve seen huge jumps in behavior in almost every session. They’re so calm now that I think you might be surprised at the progress they make from one session to the next.
  
  Also, I find that my bunnies are tense for the first 30 min – both wanting grooms, thinking about humping – but then they settle down. So see if a longer session will give them time to settle down and just hang out with each other.
- 04/16/2010 at 11:48 AM
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  maybe you can ask your mother to take you and the bunnies on a car ride too over the weekend.
- 04/16/2010 at 12:09 PM
  mocha200
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  ok thats sounds good. i think i will do a longer one tonight. how long should the car ride be?
- 04/16/2010 at 12:11 PM
  Elrohwen
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  Up to you on the car ride. I would think at least 5-10 minutes, but I know a rescuer who swears that you can bond any two bunnies with a long enough car ride. She suggested we take a road trip and by the time we got back the bunnies would be bonded. Haha.
- 04/16/2010 at 12:15 PM
  mocha200
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  my sister has dance tonight but its about 15 minutes away then you have to come back so that would be 30 minutes is that to long? if it is maybe we could just drive around for 10 minutes some were and come home. i would do it this weekend but we are really busy this weekend but maybe.
- 04/16/2010 at 12:27 PM
  Elrohwen
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  I don’t think that’s too long at all! Sounds like a good distance to me.
- 04/16/2010 at 12:30 PM
  mocha200
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  so what do i do with them in the car?
- 04/16/2010 at 12:42 PM
  mocha200
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  do i put them in a carrier, dog crate or let them run around in the back.
- 04/16/2010 at 12:45 PM
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  since you are free in the car, and with the permission of your mother open the carrier in the car to let them out and on the backseat. 30 minutes is perfect.
- 04/16/2010 at 12:46 PM
  mocha200
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  ok what if they jump off?
- 04/16/2010 at 12:46 PM
  mocha200
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  or try to
- 04/16/2010 at 12:46 PM
  mocha200
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  how does a car help?
- 04/16/2010 at 12:50 PM
  mocha200
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  oh yeah ( sorry for all the questions) my mom asked if an over night trip to my grandparents would help they live 2 hours away.
- 04/16/2010 at 12:50 PM
  Elrohwen
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  A car helps by stressing them out, like the cube or laundry basket. They’ll be too nervous to fight or hump much, so they’ll probably just snuggle together. This helps bunnies associate the other bun with snuggling and comforting, rather than fighting.
  
  I would put them on the backseat together, or you can bring the laundry basket to put them in so they’re not climbing all over the car and getting under the seats (not sure if they would be brave enough to do that though – they will probably just sit there)
- 04/16/2010 at 12:51 PM
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  A car is scary for them because it moves. It makes them more insecure than the top of the dryer. It is also completely neutral. The rabbits don’t fight in the moving car and they instinctively take to each other for comfort during this stress of being stuck in a moving thing. Don’t let them jump off the seat, this should not be too hard to do as they tend to just sit and take it all in.
- 04/16/2010 at 12:53 PM
  mocha200
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  so would an over night trip help?
- 04/16/2010 at 12:55 PM
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  You could do that, too. What are you thinking of?
- 04/16/2010 at 12:57 PM
  mocha200
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  my mom said maybe my grand parents house its 2 hours away though.
- 04/16/2010 at 1:00 PM
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  You could do it. It might be a really great way to give them time together safely. I like the idea of the two-hour trip a lot, mocha200. You would need to bring a larger basket or similar for them with their hay and water bottle etc. That way they can eat and poty too.
- 04/16/2010 at 1:02 PM
  mocha200
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  oh yeah i forgot something, i have two carriers one for mocha one for lulu. mocha has the bigger one so i was thinking of useing that one but what if he gets territorial over it
- 04/16/2010 at 1:05 PM
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  take both carriers, but stow them away, only use them if things go wrong (they won’t, but always be prepared for the worst case scenario). Just let the two buns sit in a laundry basket together with hay and have that beside you or on your lap.
- 04/16/2010 at 1:08 PM
  mocha200
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  should i ever let them out of the basket. oh yeah should i bring a bigger basket then the one i used on the dyer cuz that one is like the size of the petzy cube.
- 04/16/2010 at 1:11 PM
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  you need a bigger basket than a cube if you go on a 2-hour trip. If you do the 30-minute one only, cube-size is fine.
  If there is room for the rabbits on the backseat you can let them out but take a large towel to cover the seat in case they pee.
- 04/16/2010 at 1:14 PM
  mocha200
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  ok thanks we are leaving soon. so i should bring: both carriers, the small basket and a big towel or blanket? any thing else?
- 04/16/2010 at 1:17 PM
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  no, that’s it for the short ride.
- 04/16/2010 at 1:19 PM
  mocha200
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  ok thanks for all your help
- 04/16/2010 at 1:20 PM
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  you’re welcome. good luck on the car ride!
- 04/16/2010 at 2:52 PM
  mocha200
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  Day three 16 april 2010 65 min.
  I have never seen two bunnies snuggle so much in my life!!!!!!! on the way there they snuggled in the basket for about 7 min. Then i put thm on the back seat for the rest of the trip. they snuggled the whole time lulu was on the out side on the way there and mocha was on the outside on the way back. (if you know what i mean) it took 15 min. to get there then my mom left the car on and went inside they sat on the back seat after we stopped driving for about 20 min. Then mocha humped her but i pulled him off and petted him then a little latter he mounted her but then got off. Then he did it again but then got off her on his own after about 15 seconds! he did it one more time but lulu got out from under him. then we went home and they snuggled ( mocha going back and forth snuggleing first my arm then lulu my arm then lulu all the way home poor guy was scared)
- 04/16/2010 at 3:01 PM
  Elrohwen
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  That’s great! Definitely a good experience. If your mom needs to run any errands this weekend that would be a great chance to do a few more sessions like that.
- 04/16/2010 at 3:03 PM
  mocha200
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  we might have to we are always doing somthing… this was there longest and best session yet!
- 04/16/2010 at 5:22 PM
  mocha200
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  oh forgot to add somthing. there was lots of grooming from mocha! not quit sure lulu licked him but it looked like it.
- 04/16/2010 at 5:29 PM
  Elrohwen
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  That’s great!! Even one-sided grooming is a great sign this early.
- 04/17/2010 at 10:14 AM
  mocha200
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  Day four 17 April 2010
  
  i walked around with them in the basket about a minute then put them in the tube. they walked around lulu stuck her head under mochas and asked for grooming when he didn’t give her any she hoped around and tried to figure out how to get out of the tub. after awhile ,mocha tried to hump her and lulu ran away and nipped him when he tried finally lulu let him do it, he didn’t do it very long though. when he got off lulu stuck her head down and asked for grooming when he didn’t do it she nipped him and he jumped, then she stuck her head down and asked some more when he didn’t do it again, she nipped him and he jumped away lulu got mad and nipped him again the went in circles ( lulu trying to nip him and mocha running away or sometimes trying to hump her) then i broke them up and petted them. then lulu stuck her head back down and asked for grooming when he didn’t groom her she licked his foot. then she got tired of waiting and the whole nipping and chasing thing happened again and again. when i broke them up the third time, she went over and licked mocha then humped him twice. so i put them in the basket.
  
  after i put them back in the tube they were a little scared and they snuggled for a few minutes. then lulu flopped! then i went and got my computer real quick to tell you all about it and when i was plugging my computer in she flopped again! then she asked for more grooming but no biting really just a few humps.
  
  fingers crossed the rest goes good! question: why is she biting so much? oh she is grooming him right now!
- 04/17/2010 at 10:16 AM
  mocha200
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  not sure but i think i just saw a binky from mocha!!!
- 04/17/2010 at 10:24 AM
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  A binky in the tub? It’s new that Lulu is humping Mocha, isn’t it? Your rabbits are funny with their bonding antics. From what you have been writing, I would say she is nipping to say she’s not going to submit just yet. She wants to be groomed but he won’t do it, so that deserves a nip, you know?
  That’s cool you can post on here during your bathtub session with them.
- 04/17/2010 at 10:33 AM
  mocha200
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  lulu has been grooming mocha the past 15 minutes somtimes she might through nip or a hump in there but still. i think mocha thinks hes a king. she has humped him in the 2 session but other than that no. mocha only humped her once and it has been an hour. yeah my bonding is weird i guess you never know what will happen.
  
  ps. mocha’s head is soaked
- 04/17/2010 at 10:34 AM
  mocha200
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  i wish mocha wasn’t so stubborn
- 04/17/2010 at 10:59 AM
  mocha200
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  mocha just layed down it might have been a flop and they were laying side bye side. but he just got up to scratch him self. its been an hour and forty minutes, aw he just humped her and she bit him or tried to at least.
- 04/17/2010 at 11:04 AM
  mocha200
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  when ever mocha moves she will dash under him so her head is under him. why is she doing that? oh and sometimes she will grunt or nip to.
- 04/17/2010 at 11:25 AM
  mocha200
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  well i ended it at about 1:00 ( about 11:00 bb time) they were together about 1 hour and 45 min.
- 04/17/2010 at 1:29 PM
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  Posted By mocha200 on 04/17/2010 11:04 AM
  when ever mocha moves she will dash under him so her head is under him. why is she doing that? oh and sometimes she will grunt or nip to.
  
  She is stubborn about wanting grooms. how bad are her nips? Is Mocha calm or stressed?
  
  What you can do is give them both head rubs when she sticks her head there. But don’t get bit, wear the gloves. Have you put banana on Luly again?
- 04/17/2010 at 2:08 PM
  mocha200
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  they are just warning nips most of the time. somtimes he jumps from them but somtimes he just sits there. i think he is pretty calm. i have not tried the banana again i should try it tonight.
- 04/17/2010 at 7:40 PM
  mocha200
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  Day four 17 April 2010 1 hour and 1/2
  
  they got in the tub after the basket and a little bit of lunging and grunting and humping then it stopped they snuggled lulu lick him then she would grunt and lick him then lulu flopped and flopped again. then they did a little humpy nippy thing a little later then the rest of the time lulu licked him and they snuggled and lulu played with a tp roll. how do i get her to stop nipping?
- 04/17/2010 at 7:42 PM
  mocha200
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  all togather maybe 10-15 minutes of nipping and chasing.
- 04/18/2010 at 8:25 AM
  mrmac
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  The fact that you have already had flops and small grooms is great. They are sitting snuggling together which shows that they like each other but just haven’t decided exactly who is the boss yet. Dexter, my newest and third bun, sometimes will still stick his entire upper body under Delilah to try and get groomed, but she is the queen and it usually results in him getting nipped. The nipping will lessen once they figure out their roles more. When Lulu nips could you give a squirt with a squirt bottle, a clap, a snap, etc. with a ‘no!’ and push her head down or away and give mutual pets. With my bunnies Delilah knows that when I snap my fingers she is doing something that I would like her to stop. I have caught her getting ready to nip Dexter, snap my fingers, and it will break her concentration and stop her from nipping. I must sit and watch her for a few more minutes while she tries again and again, get snapped at again and again until she finally loses interest. They sound like they are doing great and are progressing nicely! Keep up the good work Mocha!!!
- 04/18/2010 at 9:03 AM
  mocha200
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  day 5 18 April 2010
  
  nothings really happening. lulu grooms him like the whole time or plays with the tp roll i put in or plays withe the towels or they snuggle.
  
  the grunting thing happened only twice in the begging and only lasted about 5 seconds each!!! no humping at all not even a atemp to! when should i move them into a bigger area? they are sooo cute together ( lulu is licking mocha right now!)i will show you the video soon but it is taking forever to upload it is only at 46 % . maybe when you see it you will get a better idea on whats going on. oh no biting ether! yay! yesterday i felt like crying, but today i feel like singing!
- 04/18/2010 at 9:08 AM
  mocha200
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  sad news lulu humped mocha but it was only about 2 seconds then she thought it was boring and desided to play with her tp roll. (she loves that thing) aw she did it again but she got off quicker this time. video is at 60% now yay
- 04/18/2010 at 9:14 AM
  mocha200
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  i ended it cuz they were just sitting there and nothing was happening so i petted them and put them away. i think they are doing pretty good though
- 04/18/2010 at 9:26 AM
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  mocha, are you still planning on the 2-hour car trip to your grandmother’s (I think you said grandmother’s)? that would be a great opportunity to transfer to a bigger area at your grandmother’s place where they have never been before.
- 04/18/2010 at 9:33 AM
  mocha200
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  we maybe could next weekend, but my grandma/grandpa do not allow animals in there house. see if we went they would sleep in the car. but i could ask her to do a session in her mud room cuz she let a kitten stay in there once. but is the bathtub going to make a deference till then? and we might not be able to do it then ether i am just saying that would be the soonest. here is the video! http://s870.photobucket.com/albums/ab267/mocah200/?action=view&current=P1130414.flv&newest=1
- 04/18/2010 at 9:57 AM
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  Sleeping in the car? How would you set them up in the car?
- 04/18/2010 at 9:59 AM
  mocha200
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  they would sleep in the bake of our bed in dog crates. do you think they are ready for a bigger place?
- 04/18/2010 at 12:54 PM
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  I had some time to watch your video. You have two very compatible bunnies. They are awesome! That video totally made my day. Lulu wants those grooms badly, and you can see, when Mocha was grooming himself, she quickly slipped her head under his, figuring he would start grooming her. My rabbits do this all the time, sometimes with success, sometimes not. Lulu has taught Mocha not to hump her and he respects it! Great! Yes, they may try a bigger space, with caution. Remember they are a new bond in the making.
  Sleeping in dog crates I guess would be OK for one night if it means they can have a session in a very new strange place (your grandparents’ mudroom).
  I love Lulu’s markings, she looks so flashy and sporty! She even looks like she should be an agility bun!
- 04/18/2010 at 2:16 PM
  mocha200
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  so should i try a bigger pen session tonight? i could do it in a new place? i just don’t know if we will have time to go up to my grandparents next weekend.
- 04/18/2010 at 2:39 PM
  Elrohwen
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  7318 posts
  Do you have another area in your house that would still be neutral, but larger? If you look at my thread, I moved them to a large hallway/landing area that was neutral and had places to hide. A hallway or a space you could pen off in another room might work well for this.
  
  Just be prepared that they may go back to their initial humping behavior that they did when they first got in the tub, but it should pass.
  
  And I don’t think that you necessarily need to go to your grandparents’ house. You could move them into a new space in your own house sometime this week.
- 04/18/2010 at 4:18 PM
  mocha200
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  well it seems like they are ready to go now in a bigger area. i mean they do nothing but play snuggle and groom. ummm…. i have a hallway but it is right outside my bedroom were they live and run arround in. is that not neutral enough? i could also do it in my yard were the haven’t been or our garage.
- 04/18/2010 at 5:20 PM
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  you don’t have to go to your grandparents’ house to do this. I misunderstood, I thought you were going there anyways.
  
  I like the garage for their first session in bigger space, but the other places you mentioned may work as well.
- 04/18/2010 at 6:24 PM
  mocha200
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  well my dad just cleaned out the grage so i think i will do it there. thanks
- 04/18/2010 at 7:46 PM
  mocha200
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  Day 5 april 18 2010 1 hour
  
  i put them in the basket then put them in the x pen in the garage. this is practically what they did the whole time. run, chase, lunge, grunt, groom, run, eat, run, chase, hump,grunt, chase, run, groom ect. videos in a second.
- 04/19/2010 at 8:33 AM
  mocha200
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  ahhhh…. the videos aren’t working i will try again later.
- 04/19/2010 at 8:39 AM
  mocha200
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  got it to work heres a video. http://s870.photobucket.com/albums/ab267/mocah200/?action=view&current=P1130429.flvv
- 04/19/2010 at 11:40 AM
  mocha200
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  Day 4 19 april 30 min.
  
  today it was mostly mocha trying to hump lulu, then lulu would run away, but when she would get tired of running away she would nip. she would groom mocha a little to but the whole session was pretty much mocha chasing lulu, once lulu humped him. i ended with forced snuggles. i ended it earlier this time to. i guess they just got to work out the humps again like they had to in the bathtub. i am sure it will go away in a few days though. was this a good session? sorry no videos cuz i ran out of room on the memory card.
- 04/19/2010 at 11:41 AM
  mocha200
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  if you go to my photo bucket page you can see more videos of last nights session, btw all the pictures on my page are of mocha and lulu so feel free to look at them.
- 04/19/2010 at 12:07 PM
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  I saw the three videos in your bonding album. You need more sessions in the xpen to allow them to sort out some things, it looks good, though.
- 04/19/2010 at 12:46 PM
  mocha200
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  yeah i know they need more sessions they have only had two so far.
- 04/19/2010 at 12:47 PM
  mocha200
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  probably in a few days
- 04/20/2010 at 7:33 PM
  mocha200
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  Day 6 20 april 25 min.
  well….once i put them in the x-pen nothing really happpened they sniffed around and stuff then they did a little chasing cuz mocha wanted to hump her. Then lulu groomed him. they chased a little more. about 15 min. into it somthing happened all of the sudon mocha tried to hump her then she turned around bit him he got mad and bit her then the started fighting! it was the most horrifing thing i ever saw! i wasn’t in the pen with them so i knew i could open the door in time so i started yelling “hey stop that” it didn’t work so i started rataling the fence like crazy that didn’t work so i leeped over a three foot gait and grabed lulu and settled her down and picked up mocha to settle him down. when i set mocha down again they kinda just sat on oppesit sides of the pen. (i stayed in incass of trubble) then after a little hopping around agnoring eachother lulu groomed mocha and groomed him again. but then mocha tried to hump her again and again they started fighting hair flying. so i did forced snuggles and put them in the basket but of coarse they didn’t want to be togather so they were trying to get out. i wanted to call my mom to come help but she wouldn’t of herd my way in the garage so i picked up the basket and tryed to just pushe there heads down. but while i wasn’t looking moch leaped out of the basket all the way to the ground and hopped under the van! by then i was shaking in fear cuz the garage doors were open and he could hop out side! i quike put lulu in the x pen and through open the door to thhe house and yeld ” mom help!” she herd me and came out. we closed the garage doors so he wouldn’t get out and i ran in the house to get some rasins to coacs him out. luckly by the time i came back with the rasins mom had cout him so we put them away. i know i ended on a horribal note, but i didn’t know what to do! i feel like all that work of bonding is gone! help i have know idea on what to do . all the bonding storys i have read have fights. whats wrong? i don’t know what to do.
- 04/20/2010 at 8:37 PM
  Elrohwen
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  Aww, I’m so sorry you had such a bad session! Hopefully Petzy will be along to offer some great advice. It’s not hopeless though! Maybe bunnies have fights at first and end up just fine.
- 04/21/2010 at 3:26 AM
  Beka27
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  16016 posts
  It’s okay Mocha! Tomorrow is another day! Would it be possible for your mom to pull the van out of the garage next time, this way you won’t have to worry about them hiding there?
- 04/21/2010 at 8:33 AM
  Elrohwen
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  I was also thinking that I would go back to the tub if you can. They have positive associations with the tub and may be less likely to fight. If you use the pen again, they may associate that with their last fight.
- 04/21/2010 at 8:39 AM
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  Good morning Mocha. I have to say, I am proud of you for how you handled that. It is stressful dealing with a rabbit fight. You leapt a 3′ gate? You should sign up for agility together with Lulu! j/k
  
  — Lulu has had enough of this humping and she will not have it. Mocha will have to clue in. I bet he was shocked. Are your rabbits injured in any way, or was it only fur that was plucked out? Check them over thoroughly.
  
  Right now, your two will associate that garage pen with this fight they had, so abandon this setup for now. In no way does this little fight undo the work you have done; it is very likely that this fight was bound to happen. There comes a point in most bonds where one rabbit has had enough and has to be very clear about it. As long as their bites were only getting fur you are good to move on. The fact that Lulu groomed Mocha afterwards tells me your rabbits are on good terms still.
  Can you use your outdoor run for sessions? How is the weather where you are? If it is warm enough and dry, I like outdoor setups for rabbits in a fighting phase because you can stop any emerging hostilities with the sound of a garden hose near the rabbits: don’t hose the rabbits but hit the ground beside them with a well-aimed strong splash. It tends to really startle them apart as it mists their ears unexpectedly and the noise is unfamiliar. It gives you better control over them.
  
  If you can’t do this technique, see if you can ask your parents if they can park that van outside the garage for you and you can have some sessions inside it. Just use the van as a weird space. They are not likely to have a fight in the parked van, and it will get them away from the aggressive exchanges.
- 04/21/2010 at 4:06 PM
  mocha200
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  should i try a session in the outside pen if mocha is the only one who has ever been in it? what if he is protective over it? or should i just go for it and see what happens? what does the fight mean? like why would they fight? thanks oh yeah i have not done a session today and i would like to so they don’t think ” if we fight we don’t have to do this” so if you could tell me were i should do my session today that would be great
- 04/22/2010 at 8:17 AM
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  Don’t use the outdoor run if it is Mocha’s territory. You could try the van. Even without the van running, just sitting in the garage, you should get good, calm sessions with them in there on the backseat. You can also always use the cube or the bathtub any time you are stuck with them. The other thing that came to my mind is making a very small enclosure for them to gradually transfer them from cube or tub to larger space again: you would need 8 NIC grids and a blanket. Build a 2 by 2 grid space that is 1 grid high anywhere in your house with the blanket at the bottom. Of course, they can jump out but you would prevent that. This type of enclusure gives you the best access to them while at the same time allowing more movement between the rabbits than the tub, cube or backseat of car.
- 04/22/2010 at 9:16 AM
  mocha200
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  Day 7 22 April 30 min.
  
  i kept this session short in case of fighting. well i didn’t see your post till now, so i tried a session in the out door pen.
  
  at first they sniffed around and mocha went in the corner were his litter box normally is and “went” but thats ok cuz its outside. mocha got a few humps in. lulu only grunted and bite him once when he tried to hump her. but for some reason in the begging when mocha wasn’t doing any thing just sitting there she went up to him and bit him on the butt! they’re was a few flicks to. i am not sure why but he didn’t bit back. lulu tried to hump him some but i was afraid a fight would happen if she did so i just said “hey” and she stopped. i blocked off the hutch so mocha wouldn’t go in there. but other than a little humping nothing else happened but TONS of BINKY’S!!! wow they had fun! they Binkyed a lot. and dashed around. not much grooming but they had fun!
- 04/22/2010 at 9:54 AM
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  You can keep up the outdoor sessions since Mocha didn’t battle over the territory. Just keep the hutch part closed like you did. Binkies by both give you the green light to continue using the same space. A territorially charged rabbit does not binky.
  
  The biting in the butt is very common. Eventually it will stop, too.
- 04/22/2010 at 2:47 PM
  mocha200
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  oh really? i didn’t think the butt bighting was normal.
- 04/23/2010 at 2:36 PM
  mocha200
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  Day 8 23 april 25 min.
  
  we had to keep this session short cuz it is going to rain soon.
  today they didn’t do much, they hopped around mocha did some binkys but lulu, for some reason was kinda scared the how session so there was no binkys from her. mocha tried to hump her quiet a few times but never humped her cuz lulu would run away, then mocha would go off and do there own thing. lulu groomed him a few times. and i ended the session with her grooming him. when lulu grooms him why does she always groom his eyes? do you think lulu could sense a storm coming and thats why she was scared? how was this session?
- 04/24/2010 at 9:43 AM
  mocha200
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  Day 9 april around 30 min
  
  it was raining out so i did the session in my room were my bed used to be. when i let them out mocha was terrified and he was like that the rest of the session. lulu groomed him and butt bit him a LOT. mocha got a little humppy and humped her, but instead of turning around and biting him she turned around and groomed him. he humped her a few more times and chased her, then he went on in the corner and peed! but i had a towel down and i picked it up before it soaked through. lulu started to hump him and he kept trying to get away and one time they started to bight and it looked like they were going to fight so i broke them up. i feel like they will never be bonded, 9 days into it and it doesn’t seem like much progress at all will they ever be bonded? is it possible they could never like each other? i know i am sounding depressed about the matter but i am just discouraged. what do i do next? just keep doing sessions and hope they work it out? oh yeah i forgot something, i put my kitten in there after they looked like they were going to fight, lulu ATTACKED her!!! my kitten(Clara) didn’t seem to mind but if i would not have gotten her out of there i have a feeling Clara could have gotten hert. i don’t know what to do! i wish sooooo bad that one of you guys lived closer to me so you guys could come help me bond.
- 04/24/2010 at 1:41 PM
  Elrohwen
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  Do you have any bunny rescues near you? I know most in my area would be happy to help bond or at least provide guidance.
- 04/24/2010 at 3:11 PM
  mocha200
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  no we don’t… i don’t have the money ether sense i just got lulu spayed.
- 04/24/2010 at 7:52 PM
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  mocha, I’m quickly stopping in to say that I do think your rabbits are on their way to being bonded. You are dealing with the normal phases of bonding bunnies. Keep the cat out from now on, let Lulu be the boss even if it scares Mocha. She will stop being mean when she feesl he respects her. Good call on breaking them up in time. Protect Mocha from being hurt. They will like each other but Lulu wants to be top bunny! Mocha will submit sooner or later since he is trying to get away from her already. You can shield Mocha from Lulu with an NIC grid when things get heated. If you get too stressed out try a car ride or a cube session.
  We are not close by, but we are here to help you. We will get them bonded as you are doing an awesome job at the most important detail in bonding: protecting them from serious fighting. The rest comes just with time.
  Don’t worry!
- 04/24/2010 at 7:58 PM
  mocha200
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  day 9 24 april 90 min.
  
  i didn’t have this session in my room cuz my mom was going to do it with me so we did it in the living room. at first mocha was scared but after awhile he warmed up. lulu kept running over to my mom for pets my mom thought that was cute. i had put a litter box in there cuz last session mocha peed and as soon as i set it down mocha went and pooed in it then a little latter he peed in it so it was good i had that in there. after about 10-15 min. lulu binkyed a little. after every time he tried hump her in the begging she thumped. then about 30 minutes in to it they had a little fight but i stopped it. then mocha flopped! 😮 it was so cute then a little later lulu flopped! 😮 all together lulu probably flopped about 5-6 times!!!! the whole time mocha hogged the litter box and wouldn’t let lulu in. about an hour into it they had another fight and two more fights and they were bad ones i couldn’t get them to settle down. but my mom finally caught mocha and held him till he was calm then i put them in a laundry basket and about a minute latter i ended it. is fighting normal??? i have never herd of bunny’s fighting in a bond. will they ever like each other? it just seems like other story’s i have read after the bathtub everything goes great. why is this so bad with them? help!
- 04/24/2010 at 8:09 PM
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  It depends on the bunnies. Wanting to fight does not mean they will not bond. It just means it will take more time. I would do some stress sessions, like car rides, or cube or bathtub. It is too early to share a litterbox for these two, and don’t expect them to. The fact that they relax enough to flop is proof
  that they are on their way. Just need to work out some kinks.
- 04/24/2010 at 8:23 PM
  mocha200
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  i am thinking i am going to let them out more often. my mom said we can do my school in my room and let them run arround wile we are doing school. i think they just got to work it out. do you think they CAN be bonded then?
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