These Does have Rabbitude to burn I swear. Is the current ornery-ness due to her going into a shed? Is it that you’re just looking how to handle a Diva in general and improve your relationship? I don’t know if I’m best person to give advice…given Jerseys jerseyness… I get rabbitude from her but she doesn’t really fear me. I just kind of ignore it and pick her up when I need to. I noticed after giving a round of meds once that she actually became more docile – like I had won the Dominance Crown for a while there.

Awww Pam! I’m sorry youre dealing with this… MB might be a person to ask about this since she also has a little diva bunny!

Here are my suggestions….

Bunnies under the bed are the worst! Leroy used to get under there all the time and I didn’t mind at first since I don’t keep anything under there anyway, but then he started ripping up the carpet in the back corner where I couldn’t reach him and I have a really big bed so I can’t get to him at all when he’s under there.  I know what a hassle it is to try to “coax” them out from under there when you’re trying to leave, believe me, I’ve done the broom thing too, lol.  It sounds like she was just being a brat and was hiding under there because she didn’t want to be put away when you left.  So next time she comes out from under the bed, shut her out of the bedroom and block off her access to the bed with some NIC cubes (or boxes if you don’t have acccess to NIC cubes right now).  Problem solved!

Clicker training is a GREAT way to bond with your bunny.  Once they get the hang of learning new tricks, they are incredibly responsive – and Leroy always seems to be proud of himself for doing his tricks right.  The first thing I would teach Samanta is to come when you call or whistle.  Then you can stand out in the hallway or something, call her, and then shut the door to whatever room you don’t want her in or scoop her up and put her in her cage. Hah! I do that to Leroy all the time.  He’s torn between staying where he wants to be or obeying and getting a treat – the treat always wins The next thing I’d teach is “go home” so she learns to run to her cage when you give that command – makes leaving the house so much easier.  Also, feed her veggies and pellets in her cage so she learns to associate the cage with yumy things.

When you have to pick her up, I’ve found that you have to be a bit sneaky about it…  If she knows youre coming to pick her up, she’ll run away and make it harder.  Don’t sneak up on her from behind and don’t scare her, but just sit there and pet her for a bit, then hold her down over the shoulders so she can’t run away (the added benefit is that this is a dominant move so she learns to accept you as head bunny – I also do this when either bunny is gettting into trouble), give a command like “up” so she’ll learn that you intend to pick her up so you don’t scare her, and the pick her up in a very decisive manner.  I’ve learned that with bunnies (and ESPECIALLY in bonding, picking them up, and trimming nails) your attitude is incredibly important – they are very intuitive and can tell if you’re timid and will take advantage of it.  Also, get a firm hold on her body and feet right away – I’ve found that if you are able to prevent them from struggling at all it makes the whole experience much easier (rather than having the bunny struggle and then you have to try to get them back under control).  The first few times you work on picking her up, wear long sleeves and gloves so you don’t have to worry about getting scratched or bitten.

Being held is also something you can clicker train (it might help to have a helper click and treat while you’re holding her so you don’t have to juggle bunny, clicker, and treats). In this case though it’s not about training her to jump into your arms or anything, but training her to tolerate/accept being held, so give a command (like “up”) pick her up, and click/treat when she’s not struggling.  Work up to holding her for longer periods of time. Don’t let her struggle as you put her down, and don’t put her down when she’s struggling (unless of course, it’s for her safety) becasue if you do, she’ll learn that if she fights you enough, she’ll get what she wants.

Good luck!

Leroy, Jeannie, and I send you and Samantha some ((((((“non-bratty” bunny vibes!!!!!))))))

With Monkey, it has helped by picking her up every day, whether she likes it or not. She’s slowly getting used to it, and its become MUCH easier to do it. Every night, I have a Pick Up session with her, I sit in her pen, I pick her up. I let her go after a few moments, let her calm down, pick her up again. She gets raisins if she doesn’t protest too much. Its getting easier on both of us, I don’t get nearly the number of deep scratches I used to It used to look like I had been tortured after picking her up, dark red welts on my skin all over.. now its maybe a little scratch if she’s not quite in a comfy position. Its taken months to get her to this point though!

Clicker training may help, theres no harm in trying!

Awww, Pam, I’m sorry you’re having such a hard time. Maybe you need to restrict the space she has to roam until she earns more. Like, start from the beginning like we suggest to people who are litter training, except expand her space when she gets a little more docile and allows you to handle her. It sounds like your roles got reversed somehow and she thinks she’s the boss.

And, like Barbie said, the vibes you give off tell Samantha whether or not you mean business. You have to be calm and confident when you attempt to pick her up. Don’t talk to her or coo at her or talk to her in a cutesy voice (we all do it, I know I do). Speak in your normal voice and make your movements quick and precise. I’ve taught dozens of people how to handle their bunnies at the rescue. They’ll swear to me that it takes two people to clip one bunny’s nails and I’ll scoop up that same bunny and have all four feet done before they’re fiinished telling me about how impossible it is to do.

Maybe it would be good for you to ignore her for a couple of days while her space is restricted. Don’t talk to her when you feed her or clean around her space, then start fresh. She’ll be thrown off by not being the center of your world and maybe she’ll adjust her additude.

Good luck!

Awww… I hate having days like that with my pets. I like the clicker training advise, especially since she is smart and sassy. Has anyone tried aversion therapy for under the bed rabbits by running the vacuum sweeper with an attachment under the bed?

I’m so sorry Pam. This must be terribly frustrating, not to mention just plain inconvenient. But I know you, if anyone, will find a way to reach a mutual agreement with Sammy to get past this hurdle.
I’m thinking maybe you should invest in something for her to be safely ‘loose’ in during the day while you’re at work? Or if you’re not comfortable with that,t hen maybe a nighttime xpen would help? Maybe she’s just too pent up and sees you coming to put her away as something to be avoided at all costs. And is there some way you can block off your under-bed area? It would be easier to keep her from going under there in the first place, rather than having to get her out once she’s there.

How much time does she get to be out with you as opposed to the rest of your day? Maybe she just wants more time with you, and when it’s time to go to bed, isn’t willing to give that up?

I’m sorry she’s not like Spockie. Isn’t it amazing how different they all are? Not one has the same temperament. If only they were a little less prey animal and a little more content with us being the one ‘beastie’ they can trust.

I’ve noticed that with all my bunnies, the more time they get to spend with me, the easier they are to handle. Once they lose that time (like how Mimzy isn’t getting meds twice a day) the less cooperation I get out of them in general.

EDIT TO ADD: I meant to also say, I’m sorry you had a bad day today.   (If you need an ear, I’m here.)  It’s odd how our pets seem to sense that and for some reason, some of them just make it all the more difficult by not being easily handled. I know that with my brood, I worry that if an emergency arises, I won’t be able to get hold of them all to evacuate them, and I can imagine this has crossed your mind with Sammy.

She does remind me of Fiver very much. I’m going on two years with him (this August) and I still haven’t been able to get him ‘hand trained’…but he is starting to realize that it’s safe to be around me, he just has a lot of baggage in the trust department and I wonder if this is what’s going  on with Sammy?

I’ll echo what’s been posted so far and say that the firm hand on the neck does get their attention, I just hate to use it because I know it also strikes their fight or flight response, but they do realize they need to be still once you’ve got that grip on them. Albeit this might be impossible in an under the bed sitch.

Any way to put your box spring flat on the floor instead of having it on the frame? She won’t be able to wiggle under that!

Is she over a year old now? I seem to remember a birthday…she might still have some age mellowing to do yet. I’m also wondering if her fear of heights is part of the trouble with picking her up (is that what you meant?). So working with her at ground level as MB said may help some. But also, maybe you can use it too your advantage by placing her onto of the washer or something suitable, and do short pick up sessions with her. I have no idea whether this would help or not though Pam…just some thoughts.

I have found with Rumball that when I need him up (for brushing lately) I carry him in his litter box over to where I need him. He’s much less freaked out this way than if I swoop in to pick him up. Picking him up is always something I have to be sneaky about and quick. I find often though that once I have him, he’ll stay still in my arms.  With Jersey she knows I’m going to pick her up and I can even swivel her around on the floor to a better position, then pick her up. She’ll stay as I walk to where were going but she’s out of my arms as soon as she’s able though.

Is it possibly for her to safely free-roam a room? I would maybe try and get her set up so it isn’t necessary to put her back in her cage when it’s time to leave. And I don’t think it’s you who is doing anything wrong, it’s her who doesn’t like being picked up. You’re comparing her to Spockie and you really should not do that, b/c everybun is going to be different.

I definitely know how it goes to have a bunny that will not be picked up for the world. I’ve gotten better just trying to pick him up a few times a week. Now I can pick him up the first time every time, but he does start to struggle after a few seconds if I don’t put him down quickly. He also flips out if anyone touches him while he’s being held (whether it’s on the head, feet, etc). So it’s a long work in progress. Definitely not something that will happen in a week or two. I use the clicker to get him comfortable with hands on both sides of him. It’s to the point where he will let me put my hands on his sides and lift him up about an inch off the floor and put him right back down. Now, this isn’t really the same as an actual pick up – the methods are different, etc, but I think just teaching him that lifting off the floor is normal has, in turn, helped me be able to pick him up more easily. Not sure that makes sense. He’s just less skittish of my hands in general and he knows that contact with two hands doesn’t always mean being picked up. So that’s what I’ve been doing. I’m far from being able to scoop him up and cuddle, or even hold him long enough to make it back to his cage. I’ve just come to accept that it will never be easy to pick him up, but I’m hoping by the time he’s 5 years old or something I’ll be able to trim his nails myself 😛

I think clicker training could be a fantastic way to get her to come out from under the bed. You can either teach her to come when you call, or teach her to target something. Otto prefers targeting, so I “call him” by dropping a plastic lid on the ground and he runs out to touch it. Even if he’s nervous, or doing something else, he’ll always get excited about seeing his lid. It’s a more positive way to get him where I need him to be. I’ve found the more I try to physically push him where I need him to go, the more he wants to go the exact opposite direction. It sounds like this was Sammy’s problem when she was under the bed as well, so having a “positive” method (ie where you comes to you, rather than you pushing her) may be what she needs. She’ll feel like it was her decision to come out from under the bed. Luring with treats don’t seem to work for me either, which is why targeting is so great. It’s more of a game than anything else. I wouldn’t use it for anything negative though, like going into his carrier or being picked up because then she’ll realize that you’re just tricking her. But if you can use it to get her out from under the bed, then out of the room, then close the door, etc, she won’t associate it with something negative.

You can also use clicker training to make her less mean in general. Once she understands the clicker, you can click and treat every time she remains calm when you put your hand near her. Only reward for calm behavior, ignore mean behavior. Hopefully she will get the message. I haven’t personally tried this method with a bunny, but I’ve read accounts online of this trick working for cage aggressive shelter buns all the time. Just start with your hand far enough away that she is calm 90% of the time – you want her to be successful most of the time. Don’t push her too fast.

One question – you said she goes right into her cage at night, so is it only the morning when you have issues? Would it be possible to set up a pen in the morning and don’t let her out to run? It might save a lot of stress if you just keep her confined in the morning and only let her out for a few hours at night. I know how stressful it can be when you’re trying to get to work and your pet won’t cooperate.

Good advice Elrohwen! It reminds me of what does and doesn’t work for my two. Especially in regard to the pushing verses calling/targeting. I really really should look more into what clicker training is all about. For Sammy, I can imagine this could be beneficial from what you and Barbie have said. She seem a clever girl who’d respond to this sort of thing.

Jersey, I agree that Sammy sounds ver smart and the smart ones tend to benefit a lot from clicker training. It gives them something positive to put their energy towards, instead of whatever naughty thing they come up with. I’ve read stories of very territorial bunnies in shelters turn from biting to licking their handlers. They just needed to learn how to properly interact with people.

eta: If you do decide to clicker train, I would recommend http://www.clickerbunny.com. I would also say to be patient. It took Otto a few weeks to really get it and his first trick took a long time. You just have to be patient and trust that if you follow the steps, it will work eventually. Some bunnies are slower to pick up on what you want, but once they get it things move much much faster.

Yes clickerbunny.com is a great resource! And yeah… sometimes it takes a bit for them to “get it” at first, so stay patient

Random side note: It helps when you have one bunny clicker trained, and then the other can see what the trained bunny is doing… it becomes kinda like a game of show and tell.  Either Jeannie is WAY smarter than Leroy or she’s just copying what Leroy does, but either way I’m not complaining… she’s already coming when called and doing “target” and “spin” after just a couple clicker sessions!

I don’t know Pam, she sounds like a typical rabbit to me. I would first and foremost block under the bed if she cannot be conditioned to come out when you want her to. I usually shake my craisin bag and can get Pepe out from under the bed. Although he usually doesn’t hang out there so much anymore.

I honestly don’t think she’s being mean. I think she’s just being a teenager at this point.

It sounds like you are just frustrated by the fact that she won’t come out from under the bed when you need her to so the best bet at this point is to just block it off so she won’t be tempted to go under there.

I cannot speak to clicker training though – I’ve never done this – don’t have the patience to do it.

Wow, seems like we have a lot of ‘under the bed’ bunnies. I can recall Mimzy getting loose one time and going straight under…of course he would, it looks safe to him. (But at least I was able to coax him out with a blueberry before he got into anything under there, thankfully.) Like any bunny would go underground, so to speak, to escape. Just centuries of habit. May not even have been your needing her to come out quickly and be put away, she was just doing what came naturally. Good call, Sarita.
If you are going to use wood blocks, you want to use ones that she may be able to chew on without hurting herself or ingesting anything toxic, but of course you know that. But I’m envisioning some serious teeth marks in whatever you try to block off your bed with…lol.
We had to put plywood planks on our porch because during thunderstorms, Shadow would try to squeeze under there to get away from the noise, then of course it would take a few crowbars (or a couple sticks of TNT) to get him out. (No, not seriously…but it felt like it.) Somehow, he still managed to wedge himself into any tiny space to get under there…a huge husky dog that was as tall as me when standing on his hind legs…I can sympathize.
I had forgotten how you were concerned with the way her rear legs used to splay out sideways a bit, so I see now why it is so important that Sammy be allowed her zoom time. *nods*
Sorry it’s been a difficult time for you. I hope things clear up soon!

Pam I’d really really really really really suggest clicker training. I know you can’t start when she’s under the bed but the way I would try with her is

1) she’s in her cage. Throw a raisin in and click when she eats it. Do this for 2-3 raisins. Do this every day for a few days. (This is ‘loading the clicker’)

2) Now you can start. Call her name and then wait. When she looks at you-click and toss a raisin. Keep this up until she’s reliably orienting towards you, or evne stepping towards you.

3) progress until she comes when called; shaping-change the criteria so instead of just looking at you she has to take a step towards you. Then two, then three, then all the way towards you.

I know it sounds like it won’t work but it will-clicker training is so amazing-and works faster and better then just treat training. You should give it a go

Then you’d progress to teaching her to accept petting, cuddling and carrying, etc. Not only are you teaching them something but your making their environment more stable and even giving them a measure of control. It’s really profound what happens to the animal and your bond when you click -I’d totally recommend Karen Pryor’s “Clicker training: what it teaches us about the animal mind” if your a skeptic  Or just trying it of course