Forum

OUR FORUM IS UP BUT WE ARE STILL IN THE MIDDLE OF UPDATING AND FIXING THINGS.  SOME THINGS WILL LOOK WEIRD AND/OR NOT BE CORRECT. YOUR PATIENCE IS APPRECIATED.  We are not fully ready to answer questions in a timely manner as we are not officially open, but we will do our best. 

You may have received a 2-factor authentication (2FA) email from us on 4/21/2020. That was from us, but was premature as the login was not working at that time. 

BUNNY 911 – If your rabbit hasn’t eaten or pooped in 12-24 hours, call a vet immediately! Don’t have a vet? Check out VET RESOURCES

The subject of intentional breeding or meat rabbits is prohibited. The answers provided on this board are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. It is your responsibility to assess the information being given and seek professional advice/second opinion from your veterinarian and/or qualified behaviorist.

What are we about?  Please read about our Forum Culture and check out the Rules

BUNNY 911 – If your rabbit hasn’t eaten or pooped in 12-24 hours, call a vet immediately!  Don’t have a vet? Check out VET RESOURCES 

The subject of intentional breeding or meat rabbits is prohibited. The answers provided on this board are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet.  It is your responsibility to assess the information being given and seek professional advice/second opinion from your veterinarian and/or qualified behaviorist.

BINKYBUNNY FORUMS

Forum BEHAVIOR How to stop stress/territorial marking?

Viewing 17 reply threads
  • Author
    Messages

    • Karla
      Participant
      1624 posts Send Private Message

        I need your help! If I do not find a solution to this, the bunnies and I will have to move out. My boyfriend cannot live with their litter habits any longer and I will not give them up.

        Jack moved in with us just 3 weeks ago at the same time as we sold my apartment and we moved into my boyfriend’s old place. Karl was 100 % litter trained and has always been, Molly has had her difficulties with peeing in the litterbox, but finally got a hold of it just a few weeks before the move. Jack, well, Jack I was told was litter trained and he did use the litterbox while being caged the first days. The thing is I am away 12 hours a day now after the move, so I actually have no idea what is going on with the bunnies anymore.
         
        They are bonded and has been almost since the beginning. The thing is that they poop and pee right outside the cage. They use their litterboxes fine, but then also the area just around the cage. They even pee on the cover on top of the cage. My theory is that it is a way of marking their territory – either out of stress due to the moving or because we are interfering with the cage too much. I guess..
         
        When I first moved them all together and had them share 1 cage, Jack would completely disregard the toilet and just use the cage. I had to clean the cage bottom all the time and the food was soaked in pee as well. So I took away the cage last week and gave them two containers as litterboxes. No more cage, only litterboxes in the room where they were fed. At least it means, they spend a lot of time in the litterboxes now as they have to get into them to eat. But then the poop and pee just got worse right outside the cage. So yesterday I brought the cage back and put the two containers inside. So it is basically just one big litterbox now…and guess what: nothing has changed  They still pee and poop outside.
         
        I need to see a change. Do you think a hutch like this might work? I am thinking that I could cut a hole in the grating and then make some kind of ramp, so they can run up and down. Then they might not consider the ground as part of their territory? Any thoughts on this? Other thoughs are welcome as well  I just spend $200 on toys for them, so I rather not experiement with the hutch if you don’t think it will work.


      • Beka27
        Participant
        16016 posts Send Private Message

          I wouldn’t spend money on a new cage, especially not a hutch, right now unless you were getting an xpen (which can be easily stored and used for other pets over the years). Do you have an xpen now or is it a traditional plastic bottom cage? They are going to need to be confined until the litter habits get better, but you’ll need a large enough space for three. As you know, you have a couple things working against you… new territory, new bunny. I think it’s really just going to take going back to the basics and being diligent with cleaning (which I know is hard when you’re gone most of the day!!!) If you have them in an xpen, you could try to do a larger litterbox (maybe even a plastic under-the-bed storage container?) so they have a large litterbox-to-floor ratio. Are they in a linoleum or tile area right now? If not, you can lay down a scrap of linoleum to make clean-up easier.

          Unfortunately, there’s not always an easy fix with buns. Especially when you get into larger groups, poop marking will sometimes happen forever. You may have 2 perfectly trained buns but the dynamic of a third is enough to send everyone reeling (even if they get along!) If you can get them all peeing in the box exclusively tho, that’s going to be a major help.


        • Karla
          Participant
          1624 posts Send Private Message

            I use a traditional plastic bottom cage – just big enough for one rabbit! I don’t think I actually understand the idea of x-pens though I know the majority in here use them.

            They have a room of their own now and the floor is wood. I did put black plastic bags around the cage, which works fine…but it is not a permanent solution. Anyways, the vinegar soaks up urine from the wood really well.

            Okay, so I might just confine them as you suggest. Get the second cage back in and put Karl and Molly in one cage and Jack in another and then have them in there for a couple of days. It is easier now to do this as I am away all the time – then I can easier ignore how miserable they must be.

            I can do it!


          • Sarita
            Participant
            18851 posts Send Private Message

              So, are they free roaming then in the room? I think that may be part of the problem – too much space.

              Obviously you cannot put all 3 rabbits in one little cage either – I think I would totally eliminate this – I’m not sure why if you have them free roaming you need a cage at all…they just need a large litter box – the bigger the litter box, the better.

              An x-pen would provide much larger space too than a cage if you decide to confine them to a smaller space until you can get them using their litter box properly.


            • Karla
              Participant
              1624 posts Send Private Message

                They are free roaming in the room when we are not at home. When we are home, then they have the whole apartment. They used to have the whole of the old apartment to run about and that was no problem. It is not as if they are marking the room – they are only marking right outside the cage and on top of it. So clearly it is their own personal area they are marking.

                I use the cage for food, toilet and mostly…for the water bottle. Karl cannot drink from a bowl and I cannot find a good way to hang it on to something. And then they have quite a few cardboard boxes scattered around where they sleep. I tried taking away their cage once and they started peeing all over the place – obviously, they are very attached to the cage


              • Deleted User
                Participant
                22064 posts Send Private Message

                  Karla, your trio is new and the space is large and new littering would be logical, you know? (sorry, I think I am being patronizing with my bolding)

                  I would turn that cage into one litter box for them and leave it open for them just as a potty house. You can put that inside a pen. You can make a pen by using a corner of a room as two sides of the pen and then using xpen panels for the remaiining sides. Make sure to bunnyproof the walls with cardboard. They don’t need that much space while you are away. They probably just loaf around all day.
                   

                  With three buns regular litterboxes often don’t work. You need to have at least two litter boxes for them and large. Put fresh hay into the litter boxes daily to munch on while they potty. Diligently pick up and wipe up after them. Show your bf you’re really trying. Littertraining of bonded multiples takes time. The most important thing is that you get the peeing under control.

                  I will attach a photo of another member’s trio setup, (I hope it’s ok, mrmac!)

                  (I love this setup. )

                  courtesy mrmac.

                  Once you change them over into their new setup, there will be marking but it should be temporarily.

                  Stay away from rugs and cardboard houses in the beginning as they will likely pee those up, too. Make it bare for the first little while. This is really important. Keep at it!


                • mrmac
                  Participant
                  2156 posts Send Private Message

                    My trio still leaves poos in the morning and they have been bonded for a few months. I will say the number of poos has lessened. Adding two large rectangle litterboxes really helped alot with mine. My trio has issues at first peeing ouside the box too. This stopped once I got the two new boxes. For a while we had no house of any kind in their pen, except for the little itty bitty one, but nothing “sharable”. I have since then been building them cardboard houses as they eat them.


                  • Karla
                    Participant
                    1624 posts Send Private Message

                      Posted By Petzy on 11/18/2009 10:00 AM

                      Karla, your trio is new and the space is large and new littering would be logical, you know? (sorry, I think I am being patronizing with my bolding)

                      I would turn that cage into one litter box for them and leave it open for them just as a potty house. You can put that inside a pen. You can make a pen by using a corner of a room as two sides of the pen and then using xpen panels for the remaiining sides. Make sure to bunnyproof the walls with cardboard. They don’t need that much space while you are away. They probably just loaf around all day.
                       

                       

                      The thing is…I have all the time in the world.  Someone else in my household doesn’t I am well aware of poop war, et.c. and that it is a matter of time. My own theory is that it is stress because it is only around the cage. I just have a reason to push the bunnies a bit faster towards the goal. So I use this thread to sort of think aloud and hear if somebody else has ideas. All ideas are welcome

                      Anyways, I did turn the cage into just big litterbox by placing to two new big litterboxes inside. Hasn’t worked. But the cages have been prepared for them, so once I say goodnight to them in a few hours, they will be confined for the next few days. At least I may find the culprit that way.

                      mrmac, so you found that not having anything in their pen helped? They don’t pee in the cardboard boxes, but only play with them and sleep in them, but I have thought of washing the floor with vinegar and baked soda as I have read in other threads, and then perhaps remove all their stuff for a while.

                       


                    • Deleted User
                      Participant
                      22064 posts Send Private Message

                        If it’s only around the cage, I don’t understand why you conclude it must be a stress reaction. If they only litter around the cage, a larger, maybe more easily accessible litter box might do the trick. — hey Karla, I didn’t mean to say you’re not aware of the dynamics, it’s the nature of the forum to re-iterate those things over and over when the topics come up for those lurking readers


                      • mrmac
                        Participant
                        2156 posts Send Private Message

                          Having no house specifically, made them alot closer to eachother too. I could tell who was leaving the poos. They do not pee at all on the cardboard, they lounge but no pee. Washing the floor may help but then they will just re-mark everything. The litterboxes I got, one is big enough for two of them to sit in it together and the other is big enough for all three.


                        • mrmac
                          Participant
                          2156 posts Send Private Message

                            My trio never pee or poo outside of their pen. They spend most of the day under their favorite chair in the living room, but they still leave me poos in the morning to be swept, but ONLY in their pen.


                          • Karla
                            Participant
                            1624 posts Send Private Message

                              The two litterboxes are quite big as well. They can sit two in each. I guess they could sit three as well if they really wanted, they don’t like it crowded. Also, since I feed them in the litterbox Jack has to have his own, so I know that he gets enough to eat. So Molly and Karl share one, and Jack has his own.

                              I will take some photos tomorrow so you can see and comment on it. It might make it easier.


                            • mrmac
                              Participant
                              2156 posts Send Private Message

                                Some pics might help. Are they caged or in a pen?


                              • jerseygirl
                                Moderator
                                22356 posts Send Private Message

                                  Again, I’ll be watching this thread with interest. “Karla”, you know of my woes and it’s similar to yours. And No, I have shut them up for litter retraining yet!!! *roll eyes* so I only have myself to blame. I’ve noted the same thing though post bonding. The marking of their space is persistant. Nowhere else, just the bunny area. Mainly Jersey. I sort of wonder the more a warren (or rabbit family forms) the more they feel the need to mark their home?
                                  btw, I think it’s a bit unfair of your BF – for what it’s worth. Wasn’t it a joint decision to get the 3rd rabbit? And obviously he knew that you all moving into this place meant you, him and 3 rabbits… and it’s a pretty big deal that you’ve sold your own place. Ok, finished now.


                                • Beka27
                                  Participant
                                  16016 posts Send Private Message

                                    Have you thought about removing the small cage altogether? If they are only pottying around the cage, maybe there’s something they don’t like about *THE CAGE*. If they are used to be free roam in a room, they don’t actually need to have a traditional cage in there. Ideally, they would be confined all together. I’d hate for their bond to break at this point because then you’ll just have another issue.


                                  • Quantum
                                    Participant
                                    286 posts Send Private Message

                                      Bean has free-run of the living/dining room except for at night. We bought an xpen, an LG “Animal Exercise Pen”. For one small bun, it works great. Another thing we did was to buy an inexpensive carpet; a carpet remnant would work, too. It goes underneath his xpen and that’s where his food and water dishes, hay, bunny bed and litter box are. He can dig at it, chew on it, and have an accident on it without harming anything. Would your boyfriend be more comfortable if the buns had the occasional accident on an easily replaced carpet rather than all over?


                                    • Karla
                                      Participant
                                      1624 posts Send Private Message

                                        Posted By jerseygirl on 11/18/2009 07:59 PM

                                        Again, I’ll be watching this thread with interest. “Karla”, you know of my woes and it’s similar to yours. And No, I have shut them up for litter retraining yet!!! *roll eyes* so I only have myself to blame. I’ve noted the same thing though post bonding. The marking of their space is persistant. Nowhere else, just the bunny area. Mainly Jersey. I sort of wonder the more a warren (or rabbit family forms) the more they feel the need to mark their home?
                                        btw, I think it’s a bit unfair of your BF – for what it’s worth. Wasn’t it a joint decision to get the 3rd rabbit? And obviously he knew that you all moving into this place meant you, him and 3 rabbits… and it’s a pretty big deal that you’ve sold your own place. Ok, finished now.

                                         

                                        Thank you – yes, I think it is unfair as well. So now we are two! Living alone with animals is just so much easier.

                                        I like your idea, Quantum. I might do that. We have some carpet in the basement, I could use.

                                        Just as an update. Well, they have been caged since Wednesday evening, and only been out for 20 minutes in the morning and then again for 3-4 hours in the evening. Today they have been out all day though seeing it is the weekend, and I am home. So far, so good. There have been no problems with the litterboxes at all, which I thought might happen. Molly has however proved to be the great Houdini reborned! So actually, she has not been caged that much as she seems to have magic powers and can bend the bars. I had to get up twice last night as I could hear someone chewing cardboard boxes = out of the cage. And there was a huge pile of poop. But nothing today or the other days. At least, I think she sort of gave herself away as the culprit last night.

                                        But I think caging them works (come on, Jersey! You can do it ), though I have to admit it is only because I am so much away, that I have the strength to do it. I think I will have them caged as well for the next three days. I swop cages between them as one cage is for one and the other for two. Their bond does not seem affected at all, but I do also keep their cages close.


                                      • Karla
                                        Participant
                                        1624 posts Send Private Message

                                          It worked! I rather not say it aloud as I am scared to jinx it, but so far so good. 2½ days without any problems now and they haven’t been caged at all during this time. I guess if they start doing it again, I may just cage them again at night time perhaps for a few days.

                                      Viewing 17 reply threads
                                      • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

                                      Forum BEHAVIOR How to stop stress/territorial marking?