Could you get a veterinarian on the phone to explain the procedure and advantages to your mother? Sometimes a third neutral party can present a new perspective. Rabbits aren’t people, rabbits multiply enormously in a short time. It is a bad idea to keep intact rabbits and let them mate because there aren’t enough homes for even the cutest kits. In nature these would be decimated by predators, a torturous way to end up. Pets are lucky to be spared this fate by living healthy under human care and being speutered.

*HUGS*

That is difficult-sounds like she is in a whole different paradigm of thinking.

I’d try working in her paradigm rather then trying to change it.

Agree-spay and neuter IS unnatural and it WILL hurt. But they will get pain meds. And spay neuter almost triples a rabbit lifespay (from 4 to 12 years) though unnatural it’s BETTER. And it’s not abortion as they aren’t prego so no need to open that can of worms. Go on to say that your female getting cancer (which is SURE to happen -85% chance-if not spayed) would be MORE painful and more expensive and more unnatural.

She sounds like she doesn’t want to mess with nature. Work WITH that instead of against.

Maybe let her know that in nature it’s natural for rabbits to get cancer later in life, likely due to the fact that they are such high reproducers that they shouldn’t live long-however spay/neutering allows you to enjoy your family member for three times as long?

I know Bunnytown had to sneak her buns in to get fixed as her hubby did not agree with it either-is there ANY chance you could work that-since you are paying anyways? I’m thinking your mom is away for the weekend and you have a friends mom take you to take buns in? Or …your whole family is going away and your friend is looking after them-and your friend takes them in.
I’m probably being a bad person suggesting you sneak around your mum-but just thought I’d throw it out there-don’t want to be a bad influence though!!

Don’t worry K&K, I thought it too & was reminded of Bunnytowne.
Velvetlion, I’m inclined to suggest you don’t say anything but just invite your mother to come to a rabbit rescue with you for a day. I’m sure that’d be a real eye opener.

it looks like your mother cares very much about the bunny’s welfare as she is concerned with her being in pain and sufffering. So maybe if you can focus back on the the bunny’s welfare (the cancer is a good point) and as far as nature maybe if she can see the overall bigger picture of how domestic rabbits came to be she may be able to understand a bit more:

For over 200 years, domestic rabbits, like cats and dogs, have been bred ito develop both physical and behavioral characteristics that are suited for humans. The domestic rabbit may still have many of the things that their wild cousins do, but unless you are breeding, some of those things are no longer needed and can actually cause more stress for many bunnies. A few examples include:

An unspayed female that’s around another male, even if she just smells him, may have to deal with the stress of false pregnancies. And this can be stressful. She is going to be more protective and territorial, she’ll be nesting and this can be for 3 weeks at a time.

Depending on her behavior she may need to be limited more because she may mark her territory due to hormones. Hormones can really rage and though those would be great in the wild as their wild cousins use this extra energy to fight for the best territory and nesting place, be the top male or female, etc, these can be stressful for them.  And it can also make it more difficult for humans as they want to be able to bond and live happily together   If they are better with their litterbox habits, if they don’t have the hormones anymore (the ones that their wild cousins needed) then they can have more freedom and bond with other bunnies, and live more peacefully. (Again, this is in general terms for House Rabbits)

 I think that if humans are going be involved in the domestication process,  then it is not unnatural to continue that and create the best situation for  their bunny.

 I think you had also mentioned that your  mom suggested having one litter, but one of the most unnatural things that is happening today is all of the bunnies that are homeless and are at risk for euthanasia. Many of us work/volunteer (or have in the past) and so we can verify that this is happening at alarming numbers. There are definitely plenty of bunnies out there already. 

Good luck.

EDITED TO ADD:  I like Petzy’s idea of talking to a rabbit-savvy vet and having him/her explain the procedure to your mom (again it is VERY important to have a vet who is used to spaying bunnies).  I know you are going to the vet on Friday already for the fur loss, so if you trust this vet, you have him/her talk to you mom. 

I have to ask… your mom sounds intent on this “just one litter” thing… Is there any possibility that she would put them together (without your knowledge) when you weren’t home? It really only takes a few seconds for a bun to get pregnant.

My advice: Sounds like your mom will let you get Velvet neutered? Do that now, while she is still saying yes to the boy being fixed. Then you can at least put them together, bond them and not worry about babies. Once that is settled, you can work on getting Ruby spayed.

I definitely suggest taking her to a shelter so as to prove her ‘overpopulation is just something people made up’ theory to rest. If there wasn’t an overpopulation, there wouldn’t be so many buns in shelters…

How does your father feel about it? Is he in favor of having one of the fixed so you won’t have a litter? Would he help?
The cancer is very real, very painful, and very expensive to care for, not to mention seeing a bunny you love go through a terrible fate.

I understand your frustration! My parents are getting a puppy at the end of this month, and she is a purebred Chesapeak Bay Retriever so they are paying a good amount for her from a reputable breeder. I have a hard time with this anyway, because I am always more for rescuing then purchasing….but it is a reputable breeder so that’s something. However, my parents are already planning to breed her and let her have “just one litter” to sell the puppies. I know they’d screen well and not just give them to anyone but it makes my stomach clutch since there are already SO many puppies who need good homes! I’ve tried talking to them about this but they’re immovable. They are planning to get her spayed after one litter so that’s good too, but it’s hard to be on opposite sides of an issue! I’m sure it’d be even harder with bunnies just because of the cancer worries, and because so many people are naieve about buns!

jnc317- many people are discouraged from dog breeding once they read what is required to do it correctly- so if your parents already have a notion to be responsible- once they research and find out that they need to wait until the dog is over 2 years of age in order to breed- that does seem to be discouraging.  Dogs in heat are messy and need to be watched with an eagle eye- as males from MILES AROUND( no joking) can scent a female in heat and will come to visit her.

If your parents are buying from a reputable breeder the parents will be OFA certified- especially since it is a larger dog- and dogs MUST be 2 years old in order to be certified and receive a rating.  And then before they breed their dog in 2 years a reputable breeder will require a Brucellosis test on their female.  So to breed responsibly is not as easy as most people think it might be.  And after 1 heat cycle- let alone the 3-4 the dog might go thru before being mature enough to be bred is more than enough.

VelvetLion- have you showed your Mom all the bunnies on petfinder waiting for homes?  Some rescues have bunnies that are over a year old that were born in rescue still waiting for their forever homes.

I will have to provide my parents with the info! They may not realize what it entails as far as waiting and getting approval and what not. I hope I can change their minds! Puppies are adorable, I love puppies but there are already so many!!

Velvetlion- Petfinder is a great idea! There are so many bunnies on there that I wish I could bring home- who have been waiting for so long!

Well, that’s too bad. I’m sorry. You’ve done really everything you can. Sure doesn’t seem fair (at least from how you have explained it) The only thing I think you can do at this point is just try and save up your own money somehow and hope things will change in time.

Could you do things to earn money so that you could pay for it? Also tell your mom that your bunnies will be more firendlier LESS SMELLY (this one really got my mom) and have better litter box habits. Yea I agree, show her some articles, thats what I did and it really did work. I hope it works out for you! (sorry my post would be longer, but I have to go practice driving, yuck!)

There are some good suggestions .  By the way this is BT  bunnytowne and my rabbit her name is Ruby too.  It is funny y’all remember me sneaking her to the vet to spay.  Hubby was out of town I made the appmnt. called a taxi and away we went. 

Maybe let your Mom rest on it a bit.  Then bring it up again in a month or so.  Or save $ and sneak off to have it done?  You can sneak bun on a bus cover the carrier with a towel so they dont’ notice and bus on down there.

Or spend the nite at a friends and take her that way.   Yes shame on me and i hope your Mom doesn’t read this she would probably be quite upset.

When rabbits aren’t altered their litterbox habits go downhill.  That is also a good idea to go with your mom to an animal shelter that takes bunnies.    Perhaps you can find an animal shelter that will do low cost spay and neuter too.

Or for now letting the subject rest and approach your parents again.   I wish you the best in this endeavor and in getting the vet to speak to your Mom about this when you take Ruby in again.

lol   yes after seeing all those poopies decorating the floors your Mom might take notice.    

I have a poopy problem with Cotton now.   Since Rubys cage is in the living room Cotton is leaving poopies under her cage.    Just more to pick up

Velvet:  I feel so bad for you.  I worry that something is getting miscommunicated by you and/or your mom.  W/ that I mean that she seems DEAD SET AGAINST this and no matter what, she won’t change her mind.  I think that that is the real issue going on here.  I’m not sure how you have presented info to mom or how she has been communicating her feelings/ concerns to you.  I’m also wondering how old you are, b/c you sound like you have your act together.

Are there potential cultural or age issues that are blocking mom from hearing you.  I’m not quite sure what is blocking her, but its something very deep & personal and that may be the real issue of concern.  Has she suffered loss of a pet due to vet care.  Is mom’s overall culture that animals are very secondary and not viewed the same way you view. 

Sorry if I sound all therapy…but I’m a child/adolescent psychologist and I find that often there’s something deeper going on w/ the parent when they tend to block a kid’s arguments/ views?????  Maybe get through the holidays w/o bringing it up and then bring it up as a “Mom I’m feeling very sad b/c I feel that you are not listening to my concerns.  This issue causes me distress and I want to understand why I feel this way.  I’m concerned that this is about our communication/support and not about our pets.  I just want to have the best, most open relationship w/ you and want to understand how to improve our communication and feel that we are each being heard.”  Hope that helps…..its pretty tough dealing w/ this kind of parent/child conflict.

Posted By skunklionshow on 12/01/2009 03:57 PM

  you sound like you have your act together.

I AGREE!!!!!!!!!  Velvet, you are being very mature about this subject and part of that maturity is knowing that when it comes to parents (or authority figures, in general) you are not always going to get things your way.  Knowing your situation, no one would fault you for not getting them altered at this point.  You will just have to be very diligent that they are kept from each other and make sure that each of their socialization needs are being met as best as possible by you or another family member (like you’ve been doing so far…)  This subject can always be revisited at a later date, or when you are out on your own.  Bunnies can live long lives (10+ years) and yours are still very young, so just b/c they can’t be altered right now, does not mean they can never be…

I think you answered my questions/concerns.  You are a pretty wise kid!  Some cultures definitely view pets very differently than traditional american cultures.  So it sounds like that might be one of your big areas of contention.  For some Asain cultures, animals are viewed as purpose not as pet, therefore putting out for them medically/cost wise is just not a consideration….end of story.  I think you are doing the best you can, but I still think the other concern is that you are not feeling heard….and that really needs to be expressed to mom.  Not in re: to the speuter issue, but as a bigger picture.  I do understand that some Asain cultures follow very TRADITIONAL  parent/child guidelines.  So I believe you said a lot in those few statements.

My advice:  Recognize what you can do and what you can’t do.  You are correct, you will be limited and you can only do the best you can w/in your means.  Keep up the good work, you sound like a good kid!

Sometimes it’s hard for people to see beyond the “now”–in this case the pain of neutering. I’m reasonably sure you had inoculations when you were a baby and you screamed your head off. The benefit derived from a short-term pain far outweighed the pain of, say, polio. In this case, the short-term pain of speutering would outweigh the long-term pain and suffering of the most prevalent forms of cancer in bunnies.

Perhaps your mom would be willing to hear an argument from that direction–that sometimes parents have to inflict a small pain with the hopes of avoiding over-whelming pain for their children later. Responsible pet owners have to do the same. For that matter, tell her to check her Catechism: Article 7, part II, section 2418 reads in part: “It is contrary to human dignity to cause animals to suffer or die needlessly.” I would argue that “die needlessly” far outweighs, “suffer”.  ”Suffering” speutering is not “needless”, in any case.

If she is in any doubt as to how painful and unpleasant cancer can be for buns, she can feel free to PM me (or, I’m sure, a bunch of other folks that have had to go through that). Euthanizing an animal isn’t particularly “natural” either, but you end up having to end your pet’s suffering with that when you’re dealing with cancer.

Wow Quantum how did you find that catechism statement?  Thats cool.

Quantum:  Beautifully put!